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Creeping Government Surveillance Now Without Warrants

Posted by Unknown on from the no-privacy-down-under dept.

CuteSteveJobs writes "The Age reports on creeping Australian government surveillance, beginning with the first operation launched on a baseless rumor. Six decades later the still-unaware victim read five months of transcripts with deep distress. Two decades ago few Australians would have consented to carrying a government-accessible tracking device, but phone and tablet data accessible without a warrant includes historic and real-time location data. In 2010-2011 there were 250,000 warrantless accesses by Federal agencies including ASIO, AFP, the Tax Office, Defence, Immigration, Citizenship, Health, Ageing, and Medicare. This is 18 times the rate of similar requests in the U.S."

23 of 78 comments (clear)

  1. I'm guessing the US hides the request better. by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I seriously doubt we're actually being snooped on any less. When the watching is constant by certain agencies it no longer shows up as a separate look.

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    1. Re:I'm guessing the US hides the request better. by mjwx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I seriously doubt we're actually being snooped on any less. When the watching is constant by certain agencies it no longer shows up as a separate look.

      Nope, this is a standard media beat up of the current govt. Not based in reality, uses vauge statistics in deliberately misleading manner.

      Technically, when a car dealer checks my credit file when I apply for finance, they are performing a warrentless check of private data... despite the fact I've given them permission. I love the fact the Age does not differentiate between

      ASIO, AFP, Defence,

      and

      the Tax Office, Immigration, Citizenship, Health, Ageing, and Medicare.

      A hell of a lot of those checks will be done by the ATO (Australian Tax Office) as investigations against tax cheats. Your bank records are protected by law.

      But by all means, let the Australia bashing continue.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:I'm guessing the US hides the request better. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      But by all means, let the Australia bashing continue.

      Well, as long as I have permission... Damn crazy Vegemite eatining criminals always tryin to tie me kangaroo down, mate!

    3. Re:I'm guessing the US hides the request better. by gnoshi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Technically, when a car dealer checks my credit file when I apply for finance, they are performing a warrentless check of private data... despite the fact I've given them permission.

      Certainly, but I'm pretty sure that isn't going to count in the above lists (not being ASIO, the ATO, or any of the others) so that isn't really relevant.

      I love the fact the Age does not differentiate between

      ASIO, AFP, Defence,

      and

      the Tax Office, Immigration, Citizenship, Health, Ageing, and Medicare.

      You know, I think that whichever of those agencies is accessing my phone, internet, or location records, it is not innocuous. (Note, from the article it is hard to make out who is obtaining what data).

      Frankly, I think that the law should be such that all of this data is not available without a warrant, and that those organisations should be forced to put forward a good case for why it is otherwise. Furthermore, I think that if this data is accessed (or a wiretap is performed) then after a period of time (3 months? 6 maybe?) the relevant agency should be required to notify me that the data was accessed, unless either the investigation is ongoing, or they are in the process of pressing charges. If my call listing is accessed, and no action against me follows, then why shouldn't I know it was accessed?

    4. Re:I'm guessing the US hides the request better. by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      When you have all communications running through your special rooms at all the telco's and ISP's you don't need to ask.

    5. Re:I'm guessing the US hides the request better. by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ... those organisations should be forced to put forward a good case for why it is otherwise.

      Context is everything...
      Case 1. A woman went missing here in Melbourne on the weekend, cops had a great deal of information on her very quickly simply by asking, for a start they know she hasn't used her bank accounts or her mobile phone since she dissappeared, they also know from public CCTV footage that she got within 450 meters of her home before dissapearing, and that's only the evidence they are telling us about, they probably know quite a bit more.

      Now lets change the context...
      Case 2. There is a guy who is currently on terrorist charges because he was caught downloding "terrorist documents", ironically newspapers and blogs have condemend him by reprinting the worst bits of those documents, "in the public interest" of course. They also seem to think that making bombs with household chemicals is some sort of classified information and not just simple HS chemistry.

      Believe it or not, the vast majority of cases that find their way into court are much closer to case 1 than they are to case 2.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:I'm guessing the US hides the request better. by Anarchduke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, no kidding. Vegemite is inexcusable.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
  2. One network by ugen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Conveniently, they are building out a single universal high speed network - so surveillance would be a lot easier. No more pesky multiple providers to monitor, multiple data centers to maintain, disparate protocols to support.
    Sounds like Woz found a perfect place to move to. (Of course he could not just move to a house with broadband in US, that would..what, make sense? :) )

  3. Decline of a civilization by oldhack · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is how the West is receding from the forefront of the human history and affairs of the world, through internal rot.

    Well, I suppose we had a good run.

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    1. Re:Decline of a civilization by Kreigaffe · · Score: 2

      Right. I'll start believing that as soon as the also-rans start having less totalitarian regimes.

      The West isn't receding from anything. The FOREFRONT is receding. The West is still ahead. Unless you somehow believe that China or Brasil or who the fuck ever else is LESS invasive and MORE respectful of human rights. Which I mean, my man, if that's what you think more power to you, feel free to move there and experience for yourself how much better life is in the West.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    2. Re:Decline of a civilization by oldhack · · Score: 2

      Right, "we are still not as bad as those other guys" argument. Gives you a nice warm feeling inside, doesn't it, "we still suck less than them other guys".

      It's not where you are, it's which direction you're going.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    3. Re:Decline of a civilization by Kreigaffe · · Score: 3

      Nope. No no no, nope. Don't even try to fucking backpedal. You're the one that brought the rest of the world into the race in comparison to the West, NOT me.

      You said the West was receding from the forefront of human history and affairs of the world.

      The forefront HAS TO BE OCCUPIED. There has to be someone or something there.

      If it's not the West, then I ask you who? Who? Name any group of nations excluding any Western nation that would be supplanting the West as leading the forefront of human history and affairs of the world?

      Yes, this is a big problem. Yes, this is bad. Yes, this shouldn't be happening.

      Point me to the places that are overtaking the West with regards to human rights. Go ahead and try. PROTIP: Nowhere that isn't Western is even trying to make any improvements.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
  4. No Party Like a CryptoParty! by kencf0618 · · Score: 2

    Hence the grassroots reaction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoParty

  5. Could be a numbers thing... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2

    Maybe there are only so many bad guys to go around... and they are not so good at math.

    If "the terrorists" send 50 to the USA and 50 to Australia, then the 18x ratio is just about right.

    Prolly not, but just sayin...

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  6. It's Not So Much That It's 18 Times by Greyfox · · Score: 5, Funny
    They're just 18 times worse about getting caught at it.

    Besides, Aussies are FUN to spy on. It's the accent. I'm spying on like, three, at this very moment.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  7. Re:fuck the government by evanism · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I despise them too. We really deserve what we are getting.

    This country is utterly doomed. Utterly and completely doomed.

    I did a stint at DSD and while I cannot talk about what I saw there specifically, I can tell you that every single one of your absolute nightmares is absolutely true. Double up on the paranoia, the data collection and the cross indexing, then multiply this by six and you might get close.

    Regard every single system that has an electron running through it used to monitor you and you would be getting close.

    --
    Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
  8. Re:Well, what do you expect? by evanism · · Score: 3, Informative

    Plus we are now ruled by card carrying hard line anti business communists. Throw in a few strong arm head kicking unionists and the mix is about right.

    --
    Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
  9. What happened, Australia? You used to be cool. by Rogerborg · · Score: 2

    I cannot think of another "Western" nation that is slipping into oppression faster or further than Australia. Not even Nanny Brussels is dragging Europe down at this rate. Internets use, surveillance, road traffic, hobbies, speech, it's just turn after turn of the prohibition thumbscrews on the left hand and the mandating screws on the right.

    What up, Oz? When are you going to have enough laws to keep every child and kitten safe, all the time, forever?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:What happened, Australia? You used to be cool. by dkf · · Score: 2

      Continental drift.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  10. The time will come... by Genda · · Score: 2

    Can you see it yet, up ahead there just beyond the curve? Every infant will be implanted with a technology. It will connect to the brains neural network linking the new person to infinite digital possibilities and it will have amazing abilities. It will help a child learn. It will record a person's life in exquisite detail. It will allow people to share thoughts, experiences, work and collaborate in ways in which we now have no comprehension. The down side is that uninvited others will hear every thought you ever have. No action will go unrecorded. Your position, intention, aspirations and inclinations will all be a matter of public record and nothing you can do, will ever buy you even a moment of privacy. I call this future the "Hotel California" because it may be heaven and could be hell, and no matter how you check out, odds are you'll never leave.

  11. Re:fuck the government by evanism · · Score: 2

    dude! I AM in Australia!!!!

    --
    Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
  12. and remember: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    We have a 100 mile wide "no warrants" zone adjacent to our entire border. Within which, by the way, 200 million of our citizens live.

    Australia has a loooong way to go to catch up to our Orwellian fuckery.

    But hey. If you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about right? I mean, it's not like they'd just take your money without a warrant or anything, right? RIGHT?

  13. And of course The People can do nothing... by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

    ... now that they've allowed the State to take their only means of changing their tyrannical government.

    I still can't figure out why Aussies were falling all over themselves to give up their guns, knowing what the reasons were for them being taken.