Supermassive Black Hole Destroying Proto Star System

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Supermassive Black Hole Destroying Proto Star System

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @02:50AM from the sucks-to-live-there dept.

astroengine writes "A new analysis of recent observations finds evidence for a protoplanetary disk around a red dwarf star plunging in the direction of the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy. Ruth Murray-Clay and Avi Loeb of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics did the theoretical work. Stefan Gillessen of the Max-Planck-Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics made the observations using the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope. The red dwarf star will make its closest approach in the summer of 2013, hurtling only 270 billion miles from black hole. (Or roughly 54 solar system diameters, as measured from the furthest edge of the Kuiper belt.) It won't get sucked into the black hole, but it will be flung back along its elliptical orbit out to a distance of a little more than 1/10 light-years."

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Orbit by i+kan+reed · 2012-09-26 02:58 · Score: 2

This sounds like orbit not destruction. It's like how the earth and moon can orbit the sun without being destroyed. I'm sure some of the details will help with measuring the effect of the black hole, but this is sensationalized to an absurd degree.
1. Re:Orbit by Rotaluclac · 2012-09-26 03:07 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  If the orbit comes close enough to the black hole, and if the protoplanetary disc is large enough, tidal effects will destroy the protoplanetary disc.
  Question is: why hasn't this destruction happened at the previous closest pass of the black hole?
2. Re:Orbit by mareacaspica · 2012-09-26 03:16 · Score: 2
  
  Maybe because it's going closer and closer every time?
3. Re:Orbit by squiggleslash · 2012-09-26 03:20 · Score: 2
  
  I want to know why the scientists keep making these giant supermassive super destructive black holes. Surely when there is starvation in the world there are more peaceful goals they could be striving for?!
  
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4. Re:Orbit by ackthpt · 2012-09-26 03:26 · Score: 2
  
  This sounds like orbit not destruction. It's like how the earth and moon can orbit the sun without being destroyed. I'm sure some of the details will help with measuring the effect of the black hole, but this is sensationalized to an absurd degree.
  Each time the star passes it probably loses just a wee bit of mass and looks egg shaped. I'd pay to see that, but it would probably be a fatal experience.
  
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5. Re:Orbit by theurge14 · 2012-09-26 03:32 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Because ALIENS.
6. Re:Orbit by Guppy06 · 2012-09-26 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  This sounds like orbit not destruction. It's like how the earth and moon can orbit the sun without being destroyed.
  Bad analogy disproves your point, as the solar system is fundamentally chaotic. Consider, for example, the Nice Model.
  Just because it won't be destroyed next Tuesday, or even next galactic year, doesn't mean it won't be snuffed out well before its time in a cosmic time frame.
7. Re:Orbit by AmeerCB · 2012-09-26 07:04 · Score: 2
  
  If the orbit comes close enough to the black hole, and if the protoplanetary disc is large enough, tidal effects will destroy the protoplanetary disc.
  Question is: why hasn't this destruction happened at the previous closest pass of the black hole?
  From TFA:
  
  "The star was likely formed in the stellar ring and later thrown into its highly eccentric orbit though a close encounter with one or more stars in the ring. The stars exchanged momentum and the red dwarf was tossed onto a new, deadly trajectory. "
  
  So, even though they're calling it an "orbit," it was likely not on this trajectory before and this is the first time it's getting close enough to the black hole for the disc to be affected. Also, the disc is already being destroyed: "But the damage is already happening. The protoplanetary disk is disintegrating under the black hole's tidal pull -- stretching the disk like taffy. Add to that a withering blast of ultraviolet radiation from the black hole that is heating and driving off material in the disk."
8. Re:Orbit by dimeglio · 2012-09-26 08:00 · Score: 2
  
  Natural selection my friend. In the end only the supermassives will survive.
  
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  Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
9. Re:Orbit by fatphil · 2012-09-26 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  In nothing that's freely accessible can I see what extrapolation algorithm was used in those models. I've run multi-megayear solar system simulations, and I've seen all the crazy stuff mentioned happen. But that was while I was using crappy 2nd-order extrapolation algorithms. Once I switched to 4th-order Runge Kutta or higher, almost all those curiosities disappeared. Which implies that what's being seen is instabilities (and thence chaos) in the numerical methods as much as instabilities in the solar system being modeled. Numerical computing is hard, there are many many gotchas like these. The academics refered to in those wiki pages that claim to have run their own models consistently do not provide the single piece of information that will let me judge whether their paper should be binned without reading.
  
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Pfftt... other world problems. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 03:01 · Score: 1

Pfftt... other world problems.
Re:light years by wbr1 · 2012-09-26 03:04 · Score: 2

And parsecs is a measure of the diameter of Uranus.

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Proto-Star Protection Legislation by Nemesisghost · 2012-09-26 03:05 · Score: 4, Funny

I propose that we protect these infant stars from the destructive forces of black holes by making it illegal for black holes to be within 1 parsec from any newly forming stars. As an added precaution, they should also stay away from all nebulae and other entities which have the potential to form stars at any time in the future. Help Stop Proto-Star Destruction by calling your congressman/woman today & demanding they pass HR-1@M@N1D01T.
1. Re:Proto-Star Protection Legislation by gstoddart · 2012-09-26 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  No Proto-Star Left Behind?
  
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  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
2. Re:Proto-Star Protection Legislation by WGFCrafty · 2012-09-26 05:00 · Score: 1
  
  Wow...
Re:"destroying" by justthinkit · 2012-09-26 03:09 · Score: 1

No, but definitely "hurtling", "sucked" and "flung" ! ! !

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Re:light years by wonkey_monkey · 2012-09-26 03:10 · Score: 1

Would you like a few like a few more light-minutes to think about that one?

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mumbo jumbo by Taibhsear · 2012-09-26 03:31 · Score: 1

What's with the religious nonsense in the last paragraphs? It has nothing to do with the finding at all.
Re:light years by gstoddart · 2012-09-26 03:34 · Score: 5, Funny

And parsecs is a measure of the diameter of Uranus.
No, those are arsecs. ;-)

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:light years by RMingin · 2012-09-26 03:40 · Score: 1

I know you're trolling, so I'm the pedant who takes the bait.
Light-year: The distance covered by light in one year in a vacuum.
Very much distance, not time.

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Re:light years by James+McGuigan · 2012-09-26 03:41 · Score: 2

A light year is the distance it takes light to travel one year:
| 0.3066013938 pc (parsecs)
| 63241.07708 AU (astronomical units)
| 9.461×10^12 km (kilometers)
| 9.461×10^15 meters
| 5.879 trillion miles
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=light+year
Though according to general relativity spacetime is 4 dimensional and the distance between two events can be measured in interchangeable units of space and time measured in light-years or light seconds.
We all travel through spacetime at the speed of light, in the direction of time, but when we start to travel in the space direction at a fraction of the speed of light, we still travel at the speed of of light, but as an angle in space time, like the hypotenuse (long side) of a triangle using Pythagoras' equation (a^2 + b^2 = c^2), with part of our direction in time and part of our direction in space. This accounts for most of the weirdness experienced with time dilation and dimensions appearing to shorten (the object is partially rotated into the time dimension).
More on the theory by ananyo · 2012-09-26 03:52 · Score: 1

From an earlier Nature story: http://www.nature.com/news/gas-cloud-hurtling-towards-milky-way-s-black-hole-may-harbour-young-star-1.11351
Re:"destroying" by Baloroth · 2012-09-26 03:56 · Score: 1

Destroying, yes. The star may survive, but the accretion disk that would form planets is being ripped to shreds by the massive tidal forces and radiation from the black hole, and therefore the system is in fact being destroyed. Also the star will probably be ripped apart eventually too, but that is speculation on my part.

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Re:Cat got my tongue by vlm · 2012-09-26 03:57 · Score: 1

Supermassive Black Hole Destroying Proto Star System
Naughty goatse, no soup for you

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WHY WON'T ANYONE STOP HIM! by BigMeanBear · 2012-09-26 04:38 · Score: 1

He's DESTROYING a proto STAR SYSTEM!

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+= E
Time... by MachineShedFred · 2012-09-26 05:11 · Score: 3, Funny

The red dwarf star will make its closest approach in the summer of 2013
Hate to get pedantic, but didn't this actually happen tens of thousands of years ago (if not millions), and the light show will only get to us in the summer of 2013?

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1. Re:Time... by NonUniqueNickname · 2012-09-26 06:15 · Score: 1
  
  Hate to get pedantic, but
  I propose an alternative and opposite theory that you actually love to get pedantic.
2. Re:Time... by benhattman · 2012-09-27 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  No, it actually didn't. I mean, sure from the Dwarf planet's perspective this happened when the Earth still had no sapient species, but from where we sit it happens in the future.
BBC will blame it on Carbon Dioxide by TheSkepticalOptimist · 2012-09-26 06:15 · Score: 1

All of the universe's problems are attributed to excessive carbon dioxide according to the BBC.

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I am not an astrophysicist.... by argStyopa · 2012-09-26 07:12 · Score: 1

...but I have a question for them:
Is it theoretically possible that a star could slingshot around galactic-center black hole and (either through the basic slingshot, or a combination of that plus frame-dragging by the spinning black hole) come out with near-c or higher velocities?
What would happen to it?
Given the number of stars constantly plunging into the holes that are (apparently) at the heart of every galaxy, and a timescale of billions of years, wouldn't it be almost certain that this HAS happened?

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-Styopa
1. Re:I am not an astrophysicist.... by Saija · 2012-09-26 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  IANAP but i think this article says: YES to your question.
  Interesting stuff!
  
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Re:light years by bondsbw · 2012-09-26 09:11 · Score: 1

From my understanding, you just described Euclidean relativity and not general relativity.
But I'm not a physicist and special relativity is really about as far as I have grasped significantly. I understand Einstein's formulation of special relativity to say that Minkowski's definition of spacetime, which is opposed to Euclidean spacetime, matches more closely with observations. But a quick Google search seems to indicate that there is a growing set of theories that suggest that relativity and Euclidean spacetime can work cohesively, and that Euclidean spacetime is not just a framework for Newtonian physics.

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Predictions about effects? by Required+Snark · 2012-09-26 15:15 · Score: 1

What kinds of phenomena are astronomers expecting to see as a result of this event? Specifically, I'm wondering about the matter falling from the proto-planetary disk into the black hole gravity well. What will it reveal about black hole features? Will be able to get more precise information about the mass, rotation and magnetic field? Will it be possible to test/verify predictions of relativity or string theory? I am under the impression that there are gaps in the understanding of how the axial jets form when matter falls into a black hole. Will we detect jets, or is more mass needed?
Inquiring minds want to know.

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