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Obama Blocks Chinese Wind Farms In Oregon Over National Security

Hugh Pickens writes "Reuters reports that President Barack Obama has invoked a little-used law to block a privately owned Chinese company from building wind turbines close to a Navy military site in Oregon due to national security concerns. 'There is credible evidence that leads me to believe' that Ralls Corp, Sany Group and the two Sany Group executives who own Ralls 'might take action that threatens to impair the national security of the United States,' said Obama in issuing his decision. The military uses the Oregon naval facility to test unmanned drones and the EA-18G 'Growler.' The electronic warfare aircraft accompanies US fighter bombers on missions and protectively jams enemy radar, destroying them with missiles along the way. At the Oregon site, the planes fly as low as 60 m and at almost 480 km/h. The administration would not say what risks the wind farm purchases presented but the Treasury Department said the Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States, known as CFIUS, made its recommendation to Obama after receiving an analysis of the potential threats from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. The last time a president used the law to block a transaction was in 1990, when George H.W. Bush voided the sale of an aerospace company, Mamco Manufacturing, to a Chinese agency."

40 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. Obligated to point out another security concern by crazyjj · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most computers and computer components sold in the U.S. are manufactured in China now. Just wanted to let you know, Mr. President, in case you missed it.

    I know, I know "free market" and all that, sir. But is it really a free market if the country doing all the manufacturing isn't free?

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by war4peace · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then use your in-house built electronics. Ah, too expensive? Well, tough shit, pay up or... what, no money? Maybe because of a debt that measures in trillions? Oh well, ask the Chinese for a big loan. Oh wait... :)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    2. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Debt for our nation is a good thing, within reason. Also the Chinese do not own most of our debt, they own only a decent percentage of foreign debt. When the USA can borrow money for negative interest, which is basically what is happening now, it should. We should use that money for investing in our nation and pay it back in better times.

      Having no debt is bad for our nation, we then have no ability to influence interest rates.

    3. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We should use that money for investing in our nation and pay it back in better times.

      It makes sense to borrow money at low (or negative) interest rates to invest in infrastructure, education, etc., because those investments will lead to higher growth in the future. But that is not what we are doing. We are borrowing money to put off dealing with entitlement reform. Spending money on pensions and healthcare for 80 year olds is pure consumption, and is not an investment in future growth. Pensions and healthcare for retirees are important, but funding them with borrowed money is insane.

    4. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know, I know "free market" and all that, sir. But is it really a free market if the country doing all the manufacturing isn't free?

      Inconveniently, you can run something that looks remarkably like a free market economy while still executing inconvenient dissidents(the fantastic thing about dissidents is how often they are students, intellectuals, and other economically near-irrelevant bit players...) In fact, certain flavors of authoritarianism might actually make that easier: If the political process is free enough that it is viable and cost-effective to attempt to convert money into political influence(Americans should be readily familiar with this situation), there is a strong likelihood that either the private sector incumbents will gradually overrun the state and use it to suppress the aspects of the free market that are bad for margins(such as 'competition' and 'low barriers to entry') or public sector incumbents will gradually overrun the private sector in an attempt to suppress potential threats and ensure that the oligarchs of the private sector are in line with the strongmen of the public sector(the most notable case of this is probably Russia, where virtually anyone with a net worth worth talking about is either kissing Putin's ass, in prison on dubious tax charges, or hanging out in London).

      If political authoritarianism is sufficiently ossified, such that money cannot be used to easily buy power, a certain dente comes to exist between the two sectors: because it is authoritarianism, the private sector will be coopted to some degree for state ends(espionage, vaguely mercantilist development/employment policies, enforcement of media blackouts and censorship; but because wealth is not easily transferrable to power, the state apparatus has an incentive to smile on anybody who is content to make money and keep his nose out of politics.

      You can't have a command economy and a free market economy; but other flavors of unfreedom are substantially less incompatible...

    5. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by FirstNoel · · Score: 2

      When you have a small loan, the bank owns you. When you have a large loan, you own the bank. ( more or less )

      --
      "Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
    6. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spending money on pensions and healthcare for 80 year olds is pure consumption, and is not an investment in future growth

      Agreed.

      Pensions and healthcare for retirees are important, but funding them with borrowed money is insane.

      So let's cut them off and let them die while we take care of our debt issues. If any of them survive until our finances are in order, *then* we can take attend them. That's what civilized people do, don't you know - cast out their old and infirm, their non-contributors.

      ~

    7. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We are borrowing money to put off dealing with entitlement reform. Spending money on pensions and healthcare for 80 year olds is pure consumption

      I've been paying SS and Medicare taxes for 45 years. I fucking paid for it. Congress kept borrowing from the money we PAID. Yes, we ARE entitled to that SS amd medicare. Are you entitled to the food you bought and paid for? Are you entitled to the money you put in the bank? Yes, you are, and if you fuck with my retirement income, good luck getting reelected, kid.

      BTW, fuck everyone who is against my getting what I PAID FOR. Goddamned thieves...

    8. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You paid it in and you (and your generation) elected politicians who squandered it. Your generation delivered the current economic problems to my generation and now you expect US to clean up YOUR mess. YOUR generation destroyed the SS and Medicare system. YOU should have been more responsible.

    9. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Spending money on pensions and healthcare for 80 year olds is pure consumption, and is not an investment in future growth. Pensions and healthcare for retirees are important, but funding them with borrowed money is insane.

      On the contrary...
      Scenario 1: I, at 30, know that at 80 I will have to pay a bunch of extremely expensive medical bills out of my own pocket. The result – I squirrel my money away, and do nothing with it, because I know I'll be fucked later if I don't.
      Scenario 2: I, at 30, know that at 80 I will have no such problems, and that the government will provide me with medical care at a significantly lower cost than if I'd had to pay it myself. The result – I put my money straight into the economy now by buying all kinds of shiny stuff, hence driving the economy.

      You might say that the money I save gets worked by the banks I save with, but ultimately it works much less hard than the money I spend. You might also say that the money I pay in tax towards such a scheme would also be squirrelled away and hence not used for bolstering the economy, but that misses two critical things - 1) that it's much less money than I would be putting away myself as the healthcare is much cheaper this way 2) it's being paid for out of the negative interest, not my tax anyway.

      Conclusion: investing in health care for the over 80 (or in fact socialised health care for everyone) is an excellent plan!

      Aside – socialised health care for everyone would result in an even bigger boost to economic output, as it would make sure that as many as possible people were fit and healthy, ready to go and work, earn money, and spend it again.

    10. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I fucking paid for it.

      No, what you did was pretend to pay for it. Your generation tallied up the money that they paid in. They called this tally a "trust fund". Then they took the money and spent it on the general fund. Your parents' generation was complicit in this, and they are the ones who benefited from the scam.

      We 30-somethings all want to know why you didn't burn these politicians at the stake in the 1980s when they set up this system. Our kids will want to know why my generation let Bush and Obama do the same thing to them.

      Calling you children's generation "thieves" will not make them more sympathetic to you saddling them with trillions in debt.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    11. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by paiute · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You paid it in and you (and your generation) elected politicians who squandered it. Your generation delivered the current economic problems to my generation and now you expect US to clean up YOUR mess. YOUR generation destroyed the SS and Medicare system. YOU should have been more responsible.

      I just wanted to point out that there are no such things as "generations". That term is used by media as a filler because they don't have the time or inclination to be more subtle in their analyses. It isn't like humans give birth every 20 years en masse. The distribution of birth dates in the population follows a nice epidemiological curve.

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    12. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Investing properly in education would solve that last part. By that I mean free university education for those who qualify at public universities.

      Free to the students. So who pays for it?

    13. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Goddamned thieves...

      As the first responder said, 'thieves' that YOU (collectively) voted for and reelected time after time, despite knowing better. The fraud is staring us in the face, and we continue to enable it to this day. I'm in the same boat and will have to work until I'm dead dead dead, but I recognize who screwed up, and I really can't sympathize or feel sorry for myself.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    14. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The taxpayer, like most 1st world nations do to a large degree.

      Having an educated society is of value to all members of that society. The party that embraces anti-education would of course fight this tooth and nail.

    15. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 2

      ...you should have created a private retirement account such as a 401k or IRA (or just a simple bank savings account).

      With all that money that you were forced by law to pay into Social Security?

      Wat?

    16. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by crazyjj · · Score: 2

      Bruce Willis and I are heading there in a speeding car even as I type this.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    17. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by Alex+Zepeda · · Score: 3, Informative

      So? Bain Capital invests in companies that employ people overseas. Lots of companies do that. Do you invest in Apple? How about Intel or AMD? Do you own an HTC phone, or a smart phone at all? Even the US Government has invests in companies that close down US plants to open them up overseas. Obama "invested" in GM. GM has closed down plants in the US to open new ones in Mexico and other places overseas. Do you think that Obama "prefers to ship jobs off overseas than to invest in America."? It's the same thing, isn't it? Well, except that Obama is using American tax dollars to do it against our will. Bain used freely invested money from investors

      The difference is that Apple's primary focus is not shipping companies overseas. The company that Bain invested in specializes in offshoring.

      But the point is that you said "their own candidate for president prefers to ship jobs off overseas than to invest in America", which is something you can't back up because it's not true. You WANT to believe it so bad that you are actively silencing the the logic portion of your brain that is screaming, "why would Romney WANT to give American jobs to overseas workers? That doesn't make sense". It's sad when you have to lie to yourself to keep justify your beliefs.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/10/illinois-workers-bain-outsourcing

      From the article:

      "This company is competitive globally. They make a profit here. But Bain Capital decided to squeeze it a little further. That is not what capitalism is meant to be about," said Freeport mayor George Gaulrapp, 52, pictured.

      So, yes, it seems to me that Romey prefers overseas jobs.

      --
      The revolution will be mocked
    18. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2

      Stop it.

      70% of the US debt is internal to the United States.

      China only owns 7% of the total US debt.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    19. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Probably something to do with that big ass oil spill a few years ago. He can look like he's protecting the environment here, while simply getting the oil from elsewhere.

      And at the cost of many, many US jobs....and decimating industries in the Gulf south (LA, TX, etc)....and causing oil companies to move their rig deployment resources out of the Gulf to other countries....possibly never to come back.

      It is our waters here....give us more a choice in allowing drilling. We're just fine down here....we've recovered....seafood industry has been tested (more than any other in history) and has been just fine for years now.....the oil spill was a bit of a burp...but we're over it....but Obama is killing jobs and money coming in here in this area by not allowing new oil leases....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    20. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by gorzek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've made that particular healthcare argument more times than I can count, and because it is so sensible in terms of its cause, effect, and goals, you can only get responses that take issue with the very idea of government involvement in healthcare:

      * "It's wrong for my neighbor to reach into my pocket to pay for what he can't afford." This is the libertarian argument, which is impossible to argue with because it comes from a fundamentally different view of government's purpose.
      * "Let's get the government out of the healthcare business and let the free market sort it out." This is the conservative argument, which is naive at best and malevolent at worst. The "free market" is concerned with rent-seeking, not ensuring a healthy, productive workforce. Such policies have been proven over and over not to work, but conservatives keep pushing them because, I guess, enough people are gullible enough to buy them.
      * Insert random argument about how socialized healthcare makes people lazy, dependent, etc. etc. etc.

      Those who oppose a single-payer/socialized system in the US never seem to have an explanation for why healthcare is so much more expensive here, in our "free market" system, than in more socialized (e.g. European) systems. When confronted with this, their solution, puzzlingly enough, is to embrace even more "free market" policies to "bring costs down." It makes absolutely no sense.

    21. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by immaterial · · Score: 3, Informative

      They didn't "take the money and spend it on the general fund." Should a trust fund just pile up its money and let it sit there, losing more and more value to inflation every year? Of course not; that would be idiotic. It should be invested -- but, given the importance of the security of that money, it needs to be invested very safely indeed. US treasury bonds happen to be the safest investment in the world; there is a reason people are happy to buy them up even now, when the interest rate is slightly negative (generally its slightly positive, but only slightly).

      As such, the Social Security trust fund mainly buys and holds treasury bonds rather than a giant pile of cash. But that investment is perfectly safe (again, people invest in US Treasury bonds for exactly that reason; the US always pays its debts). It also allows that money to be put to use in the mean time, rather than be essentially taken out of the economy and hoarded in an account somewhere (aren't free-market fans always touting the power of investment? I thought that's why we have to keep capital gains taxes so low!). I know it's weird to think of an entity lending money to itself, but it is a fairly normal practice.

    22. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 2

      English is evolving very rapidly now. The impact of having more English as a second language users than native speakers is bringing about rapid changes in what is acceptable.

      At this point, using "their" instead of "his" or "hers" is now acceptable when the gender of the person is unknown. Also, "themself" in place of "himself" or "herself", etc.

      This is not a bad thing. With the Internet a truly international language has had to be developed and for several reasons English has emerged as the best basis for that language.

      One of these reasons is that English grammar has long been recognized as descriptive of accepted usage. Not prescriptive. The basic rule of English grammar is that so long as the statement is understood as intended by the consensus of its audience, the grammar used is acceptable.

      --
      Will
    23. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 2

      that $2 billion loan to Brazil to drill off of their shores rather than our own. . . . I have no idea why Obama would invest in Brazilian oil and not Gulf of Mexico oil.

      Above sounds like some Romney's statements, criticising actions without bothering to learn anything about the situation first.

      There is clearly at least one poster on slashdot who either has not bothered to pay attention to the news, or does not have the wits to fill in the dots. Brazil sits on a huge reserve of off shore oil. It needs money to develop deep drilling techniques. The reserves are large enough that they could free the USA and the rest of the developed world from dependency on Mid East oil. Compared to the Brazilian reserves, Mexico's reserves are small potatoes. They certainly are not large enough that any investment there would change the USA position wrt other oil producers.

      The USA investment in developing Brazil's deep water oil reserves will be paid back in barrels of oil. The benefits will be huge.

      --
      Will
    24. Re:Obligated to point out another security concern by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      Sure they only have one party, but the US only has two, and look what their bickering has turned your country into.
      Personally I always thought that parties run completely against the idea of a working democracy, and one party is the same as no party.

      "Elections in the People's Republic of China are based on a hierarchical electoral system, whereby local People's Congresses () are directly elected, and all higher levels of People's Congresses up to the National People's Congress, the national legislature, are indirectly elected by the People's Congress of the level immediately below."
      I am not sure how you do it in the US exactly, but in Canada this is pretty much exactly it. We elect local representatives, but all the important people are elected by the government.

      But more similar to the US, China has shown a willingness and ability to go after activists and journalists who dislike how things are run. So pretty much like the US, not that I would consider either particularly free, fare, or by the people for the people.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  2. China Conflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Now I don't know if there is ulterior motives, but if it was an American company they would probably do the same thing. China is not the issue. The concern is that wind farms effectively create radar blind spots. There is ongoing research attempting to solve this issue. It has happened a lot with British military bases.

    1. Re:China Conflation by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now I don't know if there is ulterior motives, but if it was an American company they would probably do the same thing. China is not the issue. The concern is that wind farms effectively create radar blind spots. There is ongoing research attempting to solve this issue. It has happened a lot with British military bases.

      It wouldn't entirely surprise me if somebody looked at the 'Red Chinese wish to place a field of antenna-shaped objects with wind turbines on top next to an ECM test site' concept and turned a slightly funny color, as well.

  3. It's official: the Cold War is back by concealment · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fact is that you can't have three big dogs in the same room, and not have each one want to be the top dog. USA, China and Russia are going to duke it out for who's top dog.

    That being said, it's foolish that we allow so many Chinese firms to make vital parts of our infrastructure. The solution there won't be as easy as invoking a little-known law.

    1. Re:It's official: the Cold War is back by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      USA, China and Russia are going to duke it out for who's top dog.

      That is two big dogs and a chihuahua. Does anyone really thing Russia will ever be a "top dog" again? Russia's economy is smaller than the economy of Brazil or Italy. Russia's population is declining, partly because of low birthrate and poor public health policies, but also because of emigration of the best and brightest.

      If a third major power emerges in the 21st century, it is more likely to be India than Russia. India already has a bigger economy, and far more upside potential. They just need the will to reform their country, get rid of the corruption and subsidies, and open up their economy. If they did that, they could grow as fast as China.

    2. Re:It's official: the Cold War is back by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2

      USA, China and Russia are going to duke it out for who's top dog.

      That is two big dogs and a chihuahua.

      More like one giant cybernetically-enhanced genetically-modified killer dog, a litter of puppies, and an old dog with liver problems.

      The US is the biggest dog on the planet, despite what you'll see on sites and shows that want to scare you to make money.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
  4. In other news... by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 5, Funny

    USA elects Don Quixote for president!

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
  5. Seems plausible by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you're testing ECM you probably don't want someone affiliated with a foreign power putting up a bunch of tall towers in the vicinity.

    Maybe it's bullshit, but it's a great excuse.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's bad enough that foreign interests have taken up much of our manufacturing capability, but we certainly don't need them buying up our power generation capability. Every country should produce its own power. That's a mater of national security.

  7. Surely he's by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

    Obama has invoked a little-used law to block a privately owned Chinese company from building wind turbines close to a Navy military site in Oregon due to national security concerns.

    Surely he's just tilting at windmills.

  8. Re:Is this even Constitutional? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A US company wouldn't be permitted to put up a wind farm in China at all, they would have to do it by partnering with a Chinese corporation which would build and actually own it.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Re:it's about the campaign by JackieBrown · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's tough on China now that Romney criticized him for not being tough on China. It will go right back to status quo right after the election.

  10. Yes, it is constitutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From Section. 8.

    "The Congress shall have Power To ... provide for the common Defence" and later on "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations". This is clearly both.The president is complying with an enacted law providing for the common defense by attemption to prevent a foreign nation from putting an ECM suite next to a test range, which is also a law which regulates commerce with foreign nations.

  11. Social Security is entirely self-funding. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Except that the payments in have been raided for entitlement programs for the "wealth creators" by giving them a tax break that wasn't paid for.

  12. Similar issues in Canada by phorm · · Score: 3, Informative

    There's been a lot of controversy over the attempted Chinese purchase of Nexen, a Canadian Petroleum company.

    There are many concerns about Chinese companies' safety records, as well as the issues of foreign ownership of companies which exploit local natural resources (oddly, Canada seems to have less issue with US ownership of said companies).

  13. Re:What about Walmarts? by Chuckstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We weren't worried about Japanese military spying in the 80s because the Japanese had a tiny military, a pacifist constitution and, perhaps most importantly, seemed to have no interest in rebuilding military power.

    China has a huge military, is overtly increasing its capabilities and has obvious aspirations to regional military hegemony.