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Bruce Perens: The Day I Blundered Into the Nuclear Facility

Bruce Perens writes "I found myself alone in a room, in front of a deep square or rectangular pool of impressively clear, still water. There was a pile of material at the bottom of the pool, and a blue glow of Cherenkov radiation in the water around it. To this day, I can't explain how an unsupervised kid could ever have gotten in there."

21 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. So... I read the article. by Nationless · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is that it?

    1. Re:So... I read the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      TL;DR

    2. Re:So... I read the article. by quenda · · Score: 5, Funny

      I guess cancer is kind of like a super power.

      or so Lance Armstrong would like us to believe.

    3. Re:So... I read the article. by rioki · · Score: 5, Informative

      This was a scientific test reactor... The security is at the gate and they passed that. The actual room is totally safe. The "old" neutron test reactor of the TH-Munich could be visited. If you fell into the water you would need treatment; for desalination. That is they would rub you down with lotion, because the distilled water would remove the salts in your outer skin. Now the "new" one on the other hand can't be seen, but not because of radiation, but because it is a high pressure reactor. OMG I saw a nuclear reactor...

    4. Re:So... I read the article. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Funny

      That is they would rub you down with lotion

      Doesn't sound like the sort of place they should let children into.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:So... I read the article. by rmstar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Does Pac-Man have a waist?

      In the same way most americans have one (sorry, couldn't resist).

    6. Re:So... I read the article. by damien_kane · · Score: 4, Funny

      That is they would rub you down with lotion

      Doesn't sound like the sort of place they should let children into.

      It's better than giving them the hose, again

  2. BMRR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    BNL had three research reactors.

    Not sure whether BMRR or HFBR were water-moderated, but I'd bet it was the Brookhaven Medical Research Reactor. A bunch of beautiful glowing stuff at the bottom of a deep pool of water is a common configuration for a research reactor used for the production of medical isotopes.

  3. The 60s and 70s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think Bruce might be looking at the past through the lens of today. In the 60s, nuclear plants and labs had a couple of security guards to protect from theft and whatnot. They didn't carry guns. Unless there were secret things going on, these places weren't heavily guarded. Nuclear power wasn't considered a security issue. Nor were airports, train stations, etc.

    1. Re:The 60s and 70s by ceoyoyo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Lots of universities had research reactors (a few still do). They had no more security than some bored grad students working in the outer lab. If it was an open house even they would have been too busy to look after every wandering kid.

    2. Re:The 60s and 70s by hawguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Lots of universities had research reactors (a few still do). They had no more security than some bored grad students working in the outer lab. If it was an open house even they would have been too busy to look after every wandering kid.

      When I was in high school we did a tour of university's research reactor, and like you said, the only people there were a few grad students and an operator (or maybe he was a professor?) - no armed guards, no fancy security systems, we just had to sign in with the student at the front desk. We weren't allowed in the room that had the reactor pool,but we could see it (and the blue Cherenkov Radiation glow) through a large thick glassed window. They said that the water was sufficient to contain the radiation but they didn't want many people in the reactor room since any contaminants in the water could become radioactive.

      We were standing in the room that had the door to the reactor room, so I don't think it would have been hard for a kid to accidentally gain access to the reactor room if someone inadvertently left the door open or didn't pull it closed after they left the room.

      But at the time, the coolest thing in the building was the remote manipulator arms they used for working with radioactive materials. After playing with those arms, I decided I was going to have a career in nuclear science. Though somehow I ended up in IT instead.

    3. Re:The 60s and 70s by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Back in 2006 I walked directly through Heathrow without ever being checked. Jetlagged all to hell I took a side door, dressed in a business suit and looking authoritative, zombied my way through a maze of corridors and past a desk of men staring intently at a monitor, before finding my way outside the airport.

      On a subsequent trip, confused about the flight, I asked a man with a submachine gun the route to my gate, went there immediately, got there before the security team, and sat down watching every other passenger being frisked and scanned. The security guard was even there, someone pointed me out and obviously asked him a question, he shook his head no.

      The more things change, eh?

  4. A: Blundering into a nuclear facility by slew · · Score: 4, Funny
    1. Re:A: Blundering into a nuclear facility by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Funny

      Q: What do Bruce Perens and an 82-year old nun have in common?

      Both are creatures of habit?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:A: Blundering into a nuclear facility by plover · · Score: 4, Funny

      Q: What do Bruce Perens and an 82-year old nun have in common?

      Both are creatures of habit?

      You can kiss a nun once or twice, but don't get into the habit.

      --
      John
  5. This sounds very improbable by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 4, Funny

    The only way this could happen is if the guy in sector 7g was grossly incompetent.

  6. Re:This is it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some radiation is in fact radioactive. In particular neutron radiation can undergo beta decay.
    Cerenkov radiation, however is stable.

  7. Re:Oak Ridge used to hand out "hot" dimes by dltaylor · · Score: 5, Informative
  8. The 60s and 70s? Try modern times. by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can still see the characteristic and beautiful Cherenkov radiation at the research reactor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. I've seen it a number of times.

    Up until recently, it contained 1400 pounds of highly-enriched (weapons grade) U-235 in 58-pound bundles. It is in a building across from a 7-level parking ramp and an 80,000-person football stadium.

    There are a number of such "Research and Test Reactors" around the US.

    A 2005 ABC News report found:

    - "No guards. No metal detectors. Bags were brought into the reactor room. Doors to the building are open during the day, and no IDs are required for entry."

    - "The building was undergoing major renovation, and construction workers, large trucks and building materials surrounded the rear exterior."

    - "The university Web site includes a 'virtual tour' and detailed photos, descriptions and diagrams of the reactor, the fuel elements and the control room. The reactor manager informed the Fellows that tours had to be scheduled three weeks in advance and that a locked door with a window view of the reactor was the closest they could get. But a friendly professor told the Fellows about a basement entry to the reactor room, where a reactor operator opened the door and let the Fellows photograph the reactor from the doorway. Two other operators allowed the Fellows to come inside carrying their tote bags, and briefly take photographs about 15 feet from the reactor's base. No campus security ever approached the Fellows."

    An 2004 New York Times report found:

    - "[UWNR's] fuel is weapons-grade uranium. If it were stolen, experts say, it could give terrorists or criminals a major head start on an atomic bomb."

    - "[...] out of concern that the uranium might be turned into bomb fuel, the Department of Energy has spent millions of dollars to develop lower-grade fuel and convert scores of reactors to run on it. [...] But the six campus reactors in this country are not among them."

    - "Campus reactors have far less security than places where the government keeps bomb-grade uranium, and they may have foreign students of unknown political sympathies."

    - "[...] the fuel now in the campus reactors is dangerously radioactive, making it hard to handle. [...] however, that highly enriched uranium was an easier fuel from which to build a bomb than is plutonium."

    - "The reactor operators are paid $10.50 an hour. They recently got a raise to that level [...] because someone discovered that campus file clerks were paid more than the reactor operators.

    - "[...] the current fuel load will last about 108 years at current rates of use."

    "The truck is the real threat. You want to make sure the truck stays away 250 feet minimum." - Ronald Timm, Former Department of Energy security analyst

    Here, the primary entrance to a major parking ramp is about 50 feet away.

    Also, it's not like it's really a mystery what he saw at BNL. There have only been so many reactors there in the last 60 years. It's odd, beautiful, and I suppose comparatively rare for a person to see, but it's not a big deal.

  9. this isn't Hollywood by v1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    "They would be dead before getting out the door with it."

    My initial reaction to this is "this isn't Hollywood, where two 9mm bullets makes a car explode." Radiation in fatal doses takes at leas hours and usually days or weeks to kill you. If it's extremely high it could give you a pounding headache, dizzy, very sick to your stomach, or possibly even pass out. But if you got to that point quickly you'd have been many times over the fatal dose. A high enough dose of xrays can knock you unconscious, but even that requires a more energetic source than decay.

    Basically what I'm saying is radiation poisoning isn't instant. All but the most intense exposure will simply write your death sentence. It will take at least many hours to play out and actually stop you from breathing. You could probably swim down and grab a rod and try to muscle it to the surface. (it's very dense) By the time you got to the surface you might even be starting to show signs of blistering on your hand that is holding the rod, but even that is more likely to be in the 10 minute range. The heat the rod is producing without the water cooling it would probably be more of a bother for you. If it was radioactive enough, you'd be a dead man walking, but walking for sure, for awhile. (and setting off every radiation alarm you got near on your way out the door with the rod) Oh, and it might be messing with your vision when you got close to the rods. Some of the people that were cleaning up at chernobyl got their skin tingling and got to see the "fairy lights" sparkling around them, which had nothing to do with actual sparkles around them, it was messing with their nervous system at that point. A lot of those people died, a good chunk of them 2-20 weeks later.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:this isn't Hollywood by QuantumPion · · Score: 4, Informative

      Dose from an unshielded spent fuel bundle (or research reactor) is far greater than other typical sources - on the order of 50,000 to 1,000,000 R/hr. These kinds of doses can be instantly fatal. An HP tech explained to me once that if you placed a spent fuel bundle on a football field, and ran towards it as fast as you could, you would drop dead before you could touch it. If you swam to the bottom of a research reactor to try to touch the fuel you would most certainly become incapacitated by the time you got close enough to touch it.