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Gold Artifact To Orbit Earth In Hope of Alien Retrieval

Lucas123 writes "The problem: What do you leave behind that billions of years from now, and without context, would give aliens an some kind of accurate depiction of mankind. The answer: A gold-plated silicon disc with just 100 photos. That's the idea behind The Last Pictures project, which is scheduled to blast off in the next few months from Kazakhstan and orbit the earth for 5 billion years. The photos, etched into the silicon using a bitmap format, were chosen over a five-year process that involved interviews with artists, philosophers, and MIT scientists, who included biologists, physicists, and astronomers. To each, was posed a single question: What photos would you choose to send into outer space? The answer became an eclectic mix of images from pre-historic cave paintings to a photo of a group of people taken by a predator drone."

282 comments

  1. make a mirror... by Razgorov+Prikazka · · Score: 5, Funny

    That way they will be tricked into thinking that we look just like them and hopefully they wont be as hostile as some movies predict.
    Anyway, I for one, welcome our new gold prospecting overlords!

    --
    rm -rf --no-preserve-root / ...and let /dev/null sort them out...
    1. Re:make a mirror... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5 billion years? I highly doubt it. In the near future (relative to 5 billion years) one of these private space companies will go up there and steal it, just like they looted the wreck of the Titanic.

    2. Re:make a mirror... by gsgriffin · · Score: 1

      It would be a real bummer if the only aliens that come some day are blind and use a different means of perception.

      --
      jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
    3. Re:make a mirror... by WGFCrafty · · Score: 1

      They might just be a ferengi following the rules of acquisition.

    4. Re:make a mirror... by Razgorov+Prikazka · · Score: 1

      You are right, maybe they are not as visual like us and they are more into smelling. And their interplanetary travel started with a new invention. It was made by a brilliant scientist and when he finished the new invention he asked his crew to come ponder upon it...
      > This is my new invention! I call it the smelloscope! With this device you can smell the planets and stars!
      > I hope I don't have to smell Urectum. Heheheh...
      > We changed the name of Urectum because of the stupid Urectum jokes. Now it is called Uranus.

      Or maybe they don't have humour and the whole dialogue above is done without the Hehehe part.

      --
      rm -rf --no-preserve-root / ...and let /dev/null sort them out...
  2. yeah but it won't last that long. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    In a few hundred years, some teenager who's nicked his Dad's space car will go and steal it.

    1. Re:yeah but it won't last that long. by feedayeen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It'll be gone long before then. If you figure that it only costs a few tens of millions for a private individual to launch a satellite, returning requires more fuel and heat shielding, but that's not too much more. Considering that artifacts only increase in value, the cost of "recovery" only decreases, the only thing that can happen to save it from some billionaire with questionable ethics is if there's so much junk up there that nobody even cares it exists.

    2. Re:yeah but it won't last that long. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't cost anywhere near tens of millions. You can get a small satellite put onto a rocket for between $50-100K.

    3. Re:yeah but it won't last that long. by Dave+Whiteside · · Score: 1

      yeah if you want to leave a message
      the gold plate the moon,
      not some tiny disc that'g going to get lost

      --
      who where what when now?
    4. Re:yeah but it won't last that long. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or if they forget it exists, which we've likely done if some pre-apocalyptic race of creatures before us left something similar up there....

  3. Copyright License? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Sir! We have a lot of pictures!"

    "Leave them alone, Lieutenant. We don't have the copyright license to copy them, because the owners are long dead."

    "But Sir!"

    "I SAID, leave them alone! Haven't you heard of biogenic-nuclear copyright licenses? Without the antidote we'd all die."

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    1. Re:Copyright License? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the only way to see the pictures is if you buy the book. thanks world for not being so cool as during and after the space race.

    2. Re:Copyright License? by alexgieg · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Leave them alone, Lieutenant. We don't have the copyright license to copy them, because the owners are long dead."

      You made me remember the plot of a short story I read, I think, in an old Asimov SF magazine. Aliens come here in the stone age, become quite amazed at cave painting, a completely novel art form for them, but cannot make copies and must delete the recordings because their ethical system requires them to pay for cultural goods with some other cultural good of theirs at the same technological level, but all they have is more advanced than stone age tech, so no exchange, and no cave paintings for them. One of them however has a nice idea: giving humanity bows and arrows. The other aliens are doubtful, arguing that's quite a technological leap for humanity, which might not be ready to deal with such weapons. The other guy prevails though, with an argument akin to: "Hey, they're almost there anyway, and those paintings are soooo nice. After all, it's just bow and arrows. What could possibly go wrong?" And so they depart, with their properly purchased photos and a new art form, and in exchange we get a new, efficient and very lethal new means of war.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    3. Re:Copyright License? by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      You laugh, but the painful truth is that you earthlings can't listen to much of the Voyager space probe's Golden Record because it is still in copyright.

      Idiocy.

  4. Image Format by dimethylxanthine · · Score: 0

    Surely any aliens that can get this far should understand how to read compressed images... They're going to think they're dealing with inferior intelligence and possibly launch an unprovoked...

    oh wait.

  5. Bitmap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the **** would you send a disc into space that they'd have to figure out how to read. Why not engrave nano sized pictures?

    1. Re:Bitmap by vrt3 · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's exactly what they did. Sadly unsurprisingly the summary got it wrong. See this picture:
      http://creativetime.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Disc_001.jpg

      --
      This sig under construction. Please check back later.
    2. Re:Bitmap by GumphMaster · · Score: 2

      If you looked at the pretty photo of the disk you would know that it is a 10x10 grid of images etched into silicon, not a CDROM.

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    3. Re:Bitmap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Summary:

      "The photos, etched into the silicon using a bitmap format,"

      Article:

      "MIT used a machine to etch the photos into the silicon using a bitmap format to create a binary image."

      This just illustrates what really pisses me off about journalism today. I spent a good half an hour looking for the actual source of the quotations and statements from the MIT guys. Most of the articles claim to be written by whoever posted them on their magazine/blog/newspaper, but here's the original interview that most of the articles are ripping their quotes from:

      http://www.e-flux.com/journal/the-last-pictures-interview-with-trevor-paglen/
      I got this link from MIT: http://arts.mit.edu/va/artist/paglen/

      I'm still trying to figure out where the information about "MIT used a machine to blah blah" came from, however. So far I haven't actually been able to track it back to anybody.

    4. Re:Bitmap by arth1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But how do we know that an alien are equipped to translate a 2D monochrome into anything meaningful?
      Do they even have vision? Were they ever restricted to 2D observation (like our eyes). Perhaps they used area-based sonar for spatial awareness, or something even weirder?

      If your dog can't understand a picture, why would you think an alien can? The dog is likely going to be much closer to what you are.

      Anyhow, this is a folly, plain and simple. And not even an impressive one.

    5. Re:Bitmap by Life2Death · · Score: 1

      Why did they include the drone picture - its horribly fuzzy and I get nothing of value from it. The picture of earth from the moon, I do like a LOT.

    6. Re:Bitmap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is it really that hard? Dog's aren't making spaceships and flying across the galaxy. If the aliens are doing that then they likely have the tech/intelligence to figure out what it is they are looking at.

    7. Re:Bitmap by Idbar · · Score: 1

      Well, if they got father that humans in their space trace, probably they will figure it out easily. I would be more concerned that they find a disc that may be surrounded by a pile of trash we have been throwing out.

    8. Re:Bitmap by Idbar · · Score: 1

      Darn auto correct: farther than.... space race

    9. Re:Bitmap by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Those idiots drew the Earth upsidedown!

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  6. 4 Chan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We should just send up pictures from 4 chan.

    Then the universe will leave us alone.

    1. Re:4 Chan by Dutchmaan · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you saw an alien version of 4chan and had the power to destroy a planet.. would you hesitate?

    2. Re:4 Chan by somersault · · Score: 3, Funny

      That depends - do they have a Boxxy?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:4 Chan by zeroryoko1974 · · Score: 0

      They should have put pictures of her on there. She would then be queen of the universe

    4. Re:4 Chan by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 2

      Actually, I could imagine them downloading our stuff, which is quite sad.

      I could also imagine an ugly alien race looking at goatse, and then thinking, "Whoa. They look just like us. I can't wait to slip her the tongue.".

    5. Re:4 Chan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tentacles, or GTFO

  7. It looks like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They took the rotor off a Pimp's cadillac and etched some stuff into it. I imagine future Aliens scratching their heads about that one.

  8. Finders keepers losers weepers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If i were an alien, I don't think I'd retrieve that artifact. First of all, I'd likely be more interested in the planet than in things orbiting it. Second, out of respect for whatever life is on the planet and not knowing what purpose the artifact serves, I'd leave it in place. Third, I'd be very, very likely to overlook it.

    As an earthling, however, I'm not only aware that there's (going to be) a silicon disc with 1000 photos up there... I'm pretty sure this gold-plated silicon disc would sell for a pretty penny on eBay as a rare collectors item.

    1. Re:Finders keepers losers weepers by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      I don't know. It stands to reason that the planet we'd pay the most attention to if we were out exploring would be the one with a big ring of clearly artificial space debris. Any spacefaring civilization is extremely likely to understand the benefits of satellite technology, even if they may have moved beyond it.

      More importantly, in space, we can easily inspect things without touching them - Gravity Probe B for example, isn't actually orbiting the Earth. The gyroscopic sphere inside it is orbiting Earth, and the rest of the space craft is maintaining position away from the surface of the gyroscope. You could zip on up to this thing and do a very thorough analysis without touching it.

  9. 100 images ETCHED onto a disk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not send a large hard drive with antenna out there, so that in the future we can constantly upload new images onto it. If this thing is going to orbit for 5 billion years, then it will only have a few thousand years of history on it. But if we have the ability to upload to it, then we could always upload new images every 1-5 years or so, for as long as human civilization lasts.

    1. Re:100 images ETCHED onto a disk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TL;DR.

    2. Re:100 images ETCHED onto a disk? by arth1 · · Score: 2

      The point is to have something that can outlast the human race, and no machine can do that.

      On the contrary, I am convinced that quite a few machines will. When the last human dies, whether it is three years down the road or three million[*], there are bound to be machines surviving.

      But if we really want to make an impression, we need to do something else. This is just signalling to visitors how stupid and vain we are. This plate is obviously made for us, not them. It's a 21st century folly, and not even impressive.
      Also, unless they place the satellite in L4 or L5, its orbit is unlikely to last very long.

      [*]: If we survive three million years, we won't be human anymore. And if we only last three years, nothing of value was lost.

    3. Re:100 images ETCHED onto a disk? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, I am convinced that quite a few machines will. When the last human dies, whether it is three years down the road or three million[*], there are bound to be machines surviving.

      A few that come to mind are the model M IBM keyboard and the model 500 telephone.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  10. Rosetta Stone by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Will it contain something like the Rosetta Stone to help said aliens decipher our languages? More likely it will be found by some post apocalyptic humanish descendants relearning how to get into space...

    1. Re:Rosetta Stone by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The point of the Rosetta Stone was that it contained translations of the same passage into a mixture of languages we understood and ones we didn't. It could then be used as a key to understand the languages that we couldn't yet translate. An equivalent for this would be a passage in English, and two translations of it into languages read by aliens five billion years into the future. So, no.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Rosetta Stone by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Rosetta Stone only worked because they knew two languages of the three on the stone. Aliens would most likely not know *any* language we have.

    3. Re:Rosetta Stone by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I assume you would start the list off with some Mathematical/scientific language which is capable of being deciphered by aliens. Also the more probable people(ish) beings to make use of this would be descendants trying to decipher our long lost languages in some post apocalyptic world.

    4. Re:Rosetta Stone by maxwells_deamon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Don't belittle the above comment unless you have read a very SF good story called Omnilingual, by H. Beam Piper.

      It is even available for free:

          http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19445/19445-h/19445-h.htm

    5. Re:Rosetta Stone by neokushan · · Score: 2

      which is capable of being deciphered by aliens.

      Umm. I think I see a flaw in your otherwise damn fine plan.

      --
      +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
    6. Re:Rosetta Stone by AC-x · · Score: 5, Informative

      Mathematical/scientific language

      Spoken language is unique, but mathematical language is universal, for a start every alien capable of space flight will know what integers are. Once you've established symbols for numbers, you can match that to elements' atomic numbers, which aliens would also understand. Once you have elements you can start to show chemical structures and so on.

      Don't you remember how they did it in [Contact](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/)?

    7. Re:Rosetta Stone by adolf · · Score: 0, Troll

      every alien capable of space flight will know what integers are

      And you know this...how exactly?

      Oh, right: Based on notions conceived during your time here on Earth, you assume that this is true. But you really can't really know anything about an alien race's understanding of numerical systems (neither can I, nor anyone else).

      For all I know (and I don't pretend to know much): Numerical systems may not even exist outside of this planet.

      Next!

    8. Re:Rosetta Stone by JurgenThor · · Score: 5, Funny

      Mathematical/scientific language

      Spoken language is unique, but mathematical language is universal, for a start every alien capable of space flight will know what integers are.

      not it they're using javascript

      --
      GENERAL PUBLIC SIGNATURE (GPS) Any replies (derivatives) of this post must also use the GPS
    9. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Spoken language is unique, but mathematical language is universal,

      No it is not. Math itself is universal, but Mathematical Notation is a human contrivance which has no meaning without a frame of reference. If you hadn't been taught that the character "2" means a value of two, or the little cross we call a 'plus' sign indicates addition, you wouldn't have a clue what 2+2=4 actually was supposed to mean, or that it was even math.
      And that's not even getting into irregularities in how we actual read our own notation. Take -2^2 as an example- that evaluates to +4 because the negative sign is a unary operator which replaces ((-1) * (2)), or more simply put the way we treat the expression (-2^2) is actually (-2)^2. But if we apply the standard "order of operations" which we teach children, we really should be evaluating the exponent first so what we'd have is -(2^2) resulting in -4.

    10. Re:Rosetta Stone by neyla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, it's an assumption, and it's perhaps not a 100% certanity that it is correct.

      But I think we can agree that the odds of some alien race being familiar with the concept of integers, is a lot higher than the odds that they'll understand english.

    11. Re:Rosetta Stone by AC-x · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To understand elements and chemical reactions you need to know how many protons an atom has, which requires knowledge of integers. Atoms are also discrete units, again integers. Even from an astronomical point of view planets and stars for distinct countable (integer) units. If we find aliens they may not understand integers, but if aliens find us they would pretty much have to have all the mathematical and scientific knowledge we do (and a lot more) to get here.

      Unless of course said aliens are a sentient cloud of energy / Boltzmann brain, but the laws of physics seem to like to combine common elements into the same organic molecules that life on earth uses, so it seems likely that relatively familiar carbon based live would also evolve on other planets.

      Plus at least simple counting has been shown in many animals, even those only distantly related to primates, so it's not like humans are even the only species on earth that can count integers.

    12. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They will have to understand math and integers, but not our textual representations of them.

    13. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how do you show the integers?
      1, 2, 3, 4, 5?
      , , , , ?
      One of the others here http://thewaythetruthandthelife.net/index/2_background/2-1_cosmological/math/mat1/alphabet.gif?

    14. Re:Rosetta Stone by socrplayr813 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To understand elements and chemical reactions you need to know how many protons an atom has, which requires knowledge of integers. Atoms are also discrete units, again integers. Even from an astronomical point of view planets and stars for distinct countable (integer) units. If we find aliens they may not understand integers, but if aliens find us they would pretty much have to have all the mathematical and scientific knowledge we do (and a lot more) to get here.

      That is how we see things. Regardless of whether we're right or not, an alien civilization could very well have come up with a theory that adequately explains chemical reactions that is completely different. To think otherwise is to succumb to your own bias.

      Now, I agree that a space-faring civilization would most likely understand integers, but you can't possibly know that. The universe holds too many amazing things. We have only the tiniest understanding of it, and much of what we 'know' could very well be wrong.

      Let's take a slight detour:
      Imagine a species that evolved in space, rather than on a planet's surface. To meet our current definitions of life, they would need to be able to move around and interact with their environment, which means some sort of propulsion in space. If this species managed to make it to our planet, they could be very intelligent and still not necessarily have any need for integers or subatomic particles.

      Plus at least simple counting has been shown in many animals, even those only distantly related to primates, so it's not like humans are even the only species on earth that can count integers.

      True, but they also evolved on the same planet with the same conditions. You can't assume that alien life would be anything like the life forms on this planet. Some people think they might be, but we don't KNOW.

      --
      The confidence of ignorance will always overcome the indecision of knowledge.
    15. Re:Rosetta Stone by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Funny

      If they are using javascript for space flight, all we'll need to do to defeat them is fly Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith up to their ship to infect them with NoScript.

    16. Re:Rosetta Stone by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's an assumption, and it's perhaps not a 100% certanity that it is correct.

      But I think we can agree that the odds of some alien race being familiar with the concept of integers, is a lot higher than the odds that they'll understand english.

      Here's hoping. We only got a zero in our own mathematical language about 1,100 years ago.

    17. Re:Rosetta Stone by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      An equivalent for this would be a passage in English, and two translations of it into languages read by aliens five billion years into the future. So, no.

      Having translations of a number of languages in the same place might well be enough if coupled with some children's books. In order to decipher our lost peoples the aliens might well have to find an entire library. If we hang on long enough for progress to march on as it has been, that will fit on a piece of removable media the size of a thumbnail... oh wait, yesterday. Carry on then. Of course, it also has to be readable.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really chose the wrong example there.
      -2^2 evaluates to -4.
      Sure you could say it's 4, but that would simply be wrong.
      The standard "order of operations" still applies.

    19. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ::applause::

      That's exactly the post which I was going to make.

      Moderators, mod up please.

    20. Re:Rosetta Stone by dkf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They will have to understand math and integers, but not our textual representations of them.

      So they'll have to figure out what the encoding is. Given that they need to build a spacecraft to even be able to get to the message in the first place, decoding shouldn't be totally beyond their powers. It might take them quite a while to do it, but why worry about that?

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    21. Re:Rosetta Stone by jimbolauski · · Score: 3, Informative

      So showing a picture of two marbles with a two below it then a plus sign and another photo with three marbles and a three below it an equals sign and a photo with 5 marbles and a 5 below it would certainly do the trick. There are only two conclusions that can be drawn from that that the = sign signifies subtraction and the + sign equals or that = signifies equal and + addition. A few more images using other operators and there would be no way that our basic operators could be misinterpreted. If a 10 year old can learn order of operations an intelligent life form that managed to fly across the galaxy should be able to handle the same thing. You could probably define our mathematical notation and order of operation in less then 30 expressions, that includes calculus.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    22. Re:Rosetta Stone by Metabolife · · Score: 1

      Maybe these aliens are so hyper-intelligent that they've completely forgotten the concept of integers and have been using something else for thousands of years?

    23. Re:Rosetta Stone by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      If you are aiming for creatures capable of interstellar space travel I suspect you can assume they can work out some simple clues.

      Use binary to reduce the numeric symbol space from 10 to 2 and to make the base representation of numbers obvious faster. Show a table of lines next to the numeric representation of the number of lines. Show a table of various examples of each operation. Deriving what those operations represent should be trivial (assuming that those operations are as universal as is being assumed of course). Show some examples of algebra. Define things like sin and cos using a digram and the algebra you hopefully got across already.

      Show some equations that we know are true and so on.

      I'm not sure what useful information you'll be communicating though, other than "hey look we can do simple math" and "we think the physical laws are as follows".

    24. Re:Rosetta Stone by GNUThomson · · Score: 2

      the odds of some alien race being familiar with the concept of integers, is a lot higher than the odds that they'll understand english.

      Why would you say such a thing? In *every* science fiction movie I saw the spoke perfect English.

    25. Re:Rosetta Stone by damien_kane · · Score: 1

      If they are using javascript for space flight, all we'll need to do to defeat them is fly Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith up to their ship to infect them with NoScript.

      It's a good thing, then, that he developed the Oscillation Overthruster, without which he might not be able to get into the ship.
      Hopefully John Lithgow isn't up there, though, as he could put a damper on things.

    26. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's also possible that aliens could be exotic enough that they would see numbers not as discrete integers, but as an infinitely complex continuum (not so much black and white, as a very complex shifting of grays). We see 1,2,3; they see 1.111145, 1.11259, 1.24444444444444, etc.

    27. Re:Rosetta Stone by AndGodSed · · Score: 1

      Thanks for this. It was a good read. The power went dead so I spent the time my battery had left on the Laptop to read it.

    28. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No! These will be the last pictures! There will be no pictures after this point! 2012!

    29. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless of course said aliens are a sentient cloud ...

      All hail the sentient cloud. Now lets observe a minute of silence in honor of the sentient cloud before testing. Starting now.

    30. Re:Rosetta Stone by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why? Atoms are a model for the universe that comes from a mind that thinks in terms of countable quantities. A mind that thinks in terms of continuous values might discover quantum mechanics early on and regard atoms as probability distributions of different types of force.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    31. Re:Rosetta Stone by flargleblarg · · Score: 1

      There is no way that any alien civilization could ever itself get into space, much less travel to other stars, without an extremely good understanding of mathematics and number systems.

      The chances of an alien race not understanding integers is infinitesimally small.

    32. Re:Rosetta Stone by SJester · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not true. Jabba the Hutt spoke Subtitle.

    33. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you remember how they did it in [Contact](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/)?

      This is Slashdot, not Reddit. We use HTML here.

    34. Re:Rosetta Stone by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      wrong, we can communicate starting with the language of mathematics and science. Counting, elementary particles periodic chart...in fact this is just what the Voyager disks start with

    35. Re:Rosetta Stone by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > No it is not. Math itself is universal, but Mathematical Notation is a human contrivance which has no meaning without a frame of reference

      That is not entirely correct.

      *Symbols* are universal -- which is why you dream in them and not a language or math.

      Math IS symbol *manipulation* using certain rules that are based on assumptions. Fortunately ALL of math is based on *assumptions*; regarding how to define integers and how to manipulate them can be easily expressed and almost universally understood; you don't *need* to express "higher" math such the arbitrary rules such as negative exponent rules. The abstract assumptions are "context" free.

      First pick a generic set of symbols that represent *sequence* and *addition*. This also demonstrates the fact that you understand primes. (Ignore the underscores, they are for spacing...)

      0 1 2_ 3 _ 4 __ 5 _ _ 6 _ __ 7 _ _ _ 8 _ _ __ 9 _ _ _ _ showing the corresponding Arabic numeral system
      _ x xx xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx showing any generic counting system

      Demonstrating the Goldbach's conjecture

      x + x _ _ _. = xx _ _ _. 1 + 1 = 2
      xx + x ._ _. = xxx ._ _. 2 + 1 = 3
      xxx + x _ _. = xxxx _ _. 3 + 1 = 4
      xxx + xx ._. = xxxxx ._. 3 + 2 = 5
      xxxxx + x _. = xxxxxx _. 5 + 1 = 6
      xxxxx + xx . = xxxxxxx _ 5 + 2 = 7
      xxxxx + xxx _= xxxxxxxx_ 5 + 3 = 8
      xxxxxxx + xx = xxxxxxxxx 7 + 2 = 9

      Of couse one could demonstrate sub, mul, div, etc. but the above is sufficient.

      Slashdot's lame-ass filtering is retarded for posting math, code, and alignment.

    36. Re:Rosetta Stone by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Forgot to add: One should also provide a "Computer Science Rosetta Stone" by listing Binary, Decimal, and Hexidecimal.

    37. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except mathematics...

    38. Re:Rosetta Stone by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      An Omnilingual, so to speak?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    39. Re:Rosetta Stone by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      What about the Roxolani?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    40. Re:Rosetta Stone by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Home. Home is where you wear your hat.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    41. Re:Rosetta Stone by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Sure they would have. Any aliens heading towards earth would have had decades of 'instructional videos' with they could use to decode our language.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    42. Re:Rosetta Stone by Shompol · · Score: 1

      If you hadn't been taught that the character "2" means a value of two

      Seriously? Let me teach you an alien language, and it will take you exactly odin delit' dva seconds to learn it:

      . - odin

      .. - dva

      ... - tri

      .... - chetyre

      chetyre [delit'] dva [ravno] dva

      chetyre [delit'] chetyre [ravno] odin

      chetyre [delit'] odin [ravno] chetyre
      easy, huh?

    43. Re:Rosetta Stone by sootman · · Score: 1

      I don't remember the details of Contact, but that's pretty much what they did in the Arecibo message. (Which Contact might have referenced.)

      And use the preview button (we have one here) and remember this is Slashdot, not [Reddit](http://www.reddit.com/) :-)

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    44. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Numbers are tricky, since it is very likely most aliens won't count in base-10. In this sense, binary makes the most sense, but it presumes that aliens understand binary. I guess if they're travelling in space, maybe they would, but I always found that to be a tricky problem...

    45. Re:Rosetta Stone by icebike · · Score: 1

      Mathematical/scientific language

      Spoken language is unique, but mathematical language is universal, for a start every alien capable of space flight will know what integers are. Once you've established symbols for numbers, you can match that to elements' atomic numbers, which aliens would also understand. Once you have elements you can start to show chemical structures and so on.

      Don't you remember how they did it in [Contact](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/)?

      Good to know its that simple.

      Maybe those aliens will come early and teach us how to put something into an orbit that will last billions of years.......

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    46. Re:Rosetta Stone by icebike · · Score: 1

      Why would they bother?
      And why would a little lump of gold attract their attention?

      After listening in on our coms all the way on their journey to the earth, they would have had plenty of time to decipher the entire civilization.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    47. Re:Rosetta Stone by WGFCrafty · · Score: 2
      And for anyone not paying attention, contact was written by Carl Sagan and his wife Ann. Carl chaired a committee which selected the content of Voyager's golden record, which included a hello message from Carl's son and spoken greetings in various languages as well as music. He also helped design Pioneer's plaque.

      Even if you know all that you may not know that there will be a sequel next year to Cosmos.

      The new series, referred to as Cosmos: A Space-Time Odyssey , is slated to air on Fox sometime between Fall 2013 to Spring 2014.[10][11]It is to be hosted by astrophysicistNeil deGrasse Tysonand will be produced byAnn Druyan, popular science broadcaster and author, and Sagan's widow, along withSteven Soter, andSeth MacFarlane.

    48. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some aliens don't have eyes.

    49. Re:Rosetta Stone by n7ytd · · Score: 2

      One moon circles.

    50. Re:Rosetta Stone by Arcquist · · Score: 2

      Interestingly there are at least 2 interpretations of this I can come up with. [delit'] means 'equals' and [ravno] means 'multiply' leading to:
      4 = 2 x 2
      4 = 4 x 1
      4 = 1 x 4

      Or [delit'] means 'divide by' and [ravno] means 'equals' leading to:
      4 / 2 = 2
      4 / 4 = 1
      4 / 1 = 4

    51. Re:Rosetta Stone by aevan · · Score: 1

      Running with this: A slave race that are heirs to their deceased master's technology. They know how to operate it, but not how it works (akin to many drivers today). The race is pretty much doomed since they cannot effect repairs, but provided the ships were build well enough (self-repair, redundant systems), they could hang around for quite a while. Pillaging , breeding, and wandering aimlessly.

    52. Re:Rosetta Stone by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The chances of an alien race not understanding integers is infinitesimally small.

      True, but that doesn't mean they'll use the same number system, nor does it mean they'll be able to decipher the notation.

      q1q2w
      q1w2e
      q1e2r
      q1t2qw

      What does that mean? The arithmetic is 1st grade simple, deciphering it without knowing what number system it's in or what the symbols mean is hard.

    53. Re:Rosetta Stone by Shompol · · Score: 1

      Well, teaching an actual alien would involve a few more steps, such as
      1. Locate an alien
      2. Avoid being dissected and preserved in a methanol solution
      3 = 2 x 1
      4 = 2 x 2
      etc....

    54. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mathematical/scientific language

      Spoken language is unique, but mathematical language is universal, for a start every alien capable of space flight will know what integers are. Once you've established symbols for numbers, you can match that to elements' atomic numbers, which aliens would also understand. Once you have elements you can start to show chemical structures and so on.

      Don't you remember how they did it in [Contact](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/)?

      You are assuming that aliens will be able to see and hear like we do.
      What if they have no eyes/ears, but operate through telepathy and smell . Or something so different we can't even grasp it ?

      It's all fine to have a mathematical model, but if you can't represent it to them, they simply won't notice.

    55. Re:Rosetta Stone by theArtificial · · Score: 1

      Came for the Buckaroo Bonzai reference. Also, greetings from San d'Oria =)

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    56. Re:Rosetta Stone by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Your "more steps" don't help. You're repeating the pattern

      A O1 B O2 C, repeated however many times, with A,B, and C being appropriate integers, can never differentiate whether O1 and O2 are = and x respectively or / and = respectively.

      Further, 3 is not 2 x 1.

      Lastly, you're adding additional information via brackets around the operators.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    57. Re:Rosetta Stone by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Spoken language is unique, but mathematical language is universal, for a start every alien capable of space flight will know what integers are.

      That seems like a remarkably arrogant comment. What are you basing that assertion on? How many examples do you have to back up your hypothesis?

    58. Re:Rosetta Stone by OhSoLaMeow · · Score: 2

      "Historical Documents" (from Galaxy Quest)

      --
      They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
    59. Re:Rosetta Stone by Bitsy+Boffin · · Score: 1

      Our notational conventions can be described fairly easily.

      Just indicate that no marks is "0", one mark is "1", two marks is "2" .... once you have the integers you can then show notations for basic operators by simple example... any extraterrestrial species capable of reaching or communicating with us would have no problem in working it out.

      --
      NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
    60. Re:Rosetta Stone by khallow · · Score: 1

      Math IS symbol *manipulation*

      Math IS consequence. That symbol manipulation is just a consequence of the starting premises of mathematics.

      Math IS patterns. One could derive all possible mathematics that we can figure out by computing all possible finite computing machines (Turing machines being a symbolic computation representation of these machines) with all possible finite inputs. We don't do so because that would be a poor use of our time and generate a lot of math that we simply are uninterested in. Instead, we spend a lot of time studying particular patterns and structures that we have use for. Symbol manipulation happens to be a broad class of patterns that we've decided to focus particular attention on.

      Math is relation. The whole idea of proof is to find two or more statements which are related (usually as tautologies or implications) to one another. The most powerful concepts of math such as distance, equivalence, connectedness, correlation, etc are all relations between different mathematical objects or systems.

    61. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, the alien race could have ascended way beyond our fitsy-mitsy category theory and speak only in meta functors.

    62. Re:Rosetta Stone by psiclops · · Score: 1

      Lastly, you're adding additional information via brackets around the operators.

      i was unaware there were rules against providing too much information when trying to teach an alien race how we communicate
      (apart from the DNA structure of raptors)

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    63. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is how we see things. Regardless of whether we're right or not, an alien civilization could very well have come up with a theory that adequately explains chemical reactions that is completely different. To think otherwise is to succumb to your own bias.

      Not really. This implies that the components of an atom depend on what theory we come up with to describe it. The names and symbols will change, but the basic parts don't depend on how we think about it. And any intelligent being that understands the same physical entity can compare it with our symbology and start to build up an alphabet of common symbols. If an alien civilization came up with a completely different theory it wouldn't explain all of the aspects of the atom and chemistry. It must have divisible entities made up of atomic elements with internal structure consisting of electrons, protons and neutrons in their respective relative positions.

      Now, I agree that a space-faring civilization would most likely understand integers, but you can't possibly know that. The universe holds too many amazing things.

      Sorry, that is also incorrect. The technology that we enjoy today didn't come out of a vacuum. Without the basic conceptual building blocks of mathematics, physics, chemistry and biology we wouldn't have the technological path to space travel and the potential for interstellar travel that we imagine today. You can't install 1 resistor on a PCB without the concept of '1'. I know, simplistic example, but the point is that everything we take for granted progressed from previous innovations which must be common to any civilization advancing to the point of space travel. Some things must follow on. Without a basic understanding of atoms you can't fully understand chemistry. Without an understanding of chemistry you can't develop advanced materials. Without advanced materials you can't build ships to travel between systems. There are some (many) steps in technological growth can cannot be side-stepped, otherwise the tools aren't available to solve the problems.

      We have only the tiniest understanding of it, and much of what we 'know' could very well be wrong.

      Such as? The kind of things that would serve as a universal language would be concepts that are well understood and well established, a common ground from which to build a common alphabet. I think we can assume that any civilization capable of achieving interstellar travel has an understanding of the basic building blocks of the universe.

      Let's take a slight detour:
      Imagine a species that evolved in space, rather than on a planet's surface. To meet our current definitions of life, they would need to be able to move around and interact with their environment, which means some sort of propulsion in space. If this species managed to make it to our planet, they could be very intelligent and still not necessarily have any need for integers or subatomic particles.

      This makes for interesting speculative fiction (space whales anyone?) but it isn't very useful as an example. You can just as easily imagine intelligent plasma beings with a complete understanding of integers.

      Plus at least simple counting has been shown in many animals, even those only distantly related to primates, so it's not like humans are even the only species on earth that can count integers.

      True, but they also evolved on the same planet with the same conditions. You can't assume that alien life would be anything like the life forms on this planet. Some people think they might be, but we don't KNOW.

      Ok, so an entire planet with billions of years of evolution and species development produced the concept of integers independently in numerous semi-intelligent species, of which this new fangled human concept of math and integers is just an idea that we came up with in the last few thousand years...but we don't *know* that it will happen elsewhere in a similarly advanced intelligent species? Go ahead. Try to justify that flight of fancy.

    64. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? Atoms are a model for the universe that comes from a mind that thinks in terms of countable quantities. A mind that thinks in terms of continuous values might discover quantum mechanics early on and regard atoms as probability distributions of different types of force.

      Serioiusly? The difference in simplicity between classical mechanics and quantum mechanics is significant. We still use classical descriptions to explain some subatomic processes because it's easier and more familiar for us to think in those terms than it is to think in the statistical wave mechanics world that actually exists. Simple explanations are easier to work with and, for most situations, are quite acceptable approximations. Which is easier, asking someone to pick 1 apple or asking someone to pick a fully described wave function equation representation of an apple? Examples of discrete items exist throughout space. Planets, moons, suns, stars, galaxies... It's unreasonable to assume that they don't have a concept of discrete mathematics. The rules for discrete mathematics lead into the extended rules for continuum mathematics and beyond.

    65. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe these aliens are so hyper-intelligent that they've completely forgotten the concept of integers and have been using something else for thousands of years?

      We still use basic tools, even with our level of advanced technology. The wheel, levers, springs... Think of it in terms of energy. All systems try for the lowest energy state or most efficient use of available resources (both life and inanimate). Given the computation involved, it's much easier to think in terms of discrete units than to use some advanced number system that contains rules and tools not applicable to the problem. If I want to add up my grocery bill I don't need to use complex numbers or surreal numbers. Of course, even the extended number systems include as a subset the basic numbers such as integers, whole numbers and real numbers. I would be very very surprised if there was a more advanced number line that is simplier than using integers.

    66. Re:Rosetta Stone by doccus · · Score: 1

      I think this whole thread proves why they sent pictures ;-)

    67. Re:Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the aliens have 8 or 12 fingers?

    68. Re:Rosetta Stone by kmoser · · Score: 1

      I assume you would start the list off with some Mathematical/scientific language which is capable of being deciphered by aliens.

      Better include some lines from the Bible, in case the aliens turn out to be creationists with no need for math or science.

    69. Re:Rosetta Stone by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > Math IS patterns.
      Not strictly. The patterns exist whether or not we have the language to describe the patterns. Math is but one language to describe *how* to *operate* OR to *describe* on the patterns.

      i.e.
      Every prime > 3, has this pattern: 6n+/-1. The pattern has always existed, but we didn't discover it until "recently". That is, we didn't create the pattern, we simply observed it.

      > Math is relation.
      Agreed.

      Actually that is why I say *everything* is Math.
      i.e.
      Your relationship with others.
      Your relationship with yourself.
      Your relationship with your higher self.
      etc.

      Relationships (to learn Awareness) are the reason why *everything* in the universe exists in the first. Without a (useful) relationship, there is no purpose for X to exist.

    70. Re:Rosetta Stone by khallow · · Score: 1

      Not strictly. The patterns exist whether or not we have the language to describe the patterns. Math is but one language to describe *how* to *operate* OR to *describe* on the patterns.

      Math is both the patterns and ANY language, process, or whatever which happens to describe the patterns whether by intent or not.

      Your relationship with others.
      Your relationship with yourself.
      Your relationship with your higher self.

      Math might have trouble with that last relationship. For things which are poorly defined such as a "higher self", what can one really say about it or any relationships with things we can observe?

    71. Re:Rosetta Stone by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      i was unaware there were rules against providing too much information when trying to teach an alien race how we communicate

      There are no rules against that. The rules are against providing information that people will recognize but aliens won't, and that humans do not necessarily notice they are recognizing. Just like if you randomly put "+" in in the appropriate spot. I mean, your entire example takes advantage of the fact that most people won't recognize how arbitrary it is not use RPN.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  11. Voyager discs by jeti · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I prefer the Voyager discs. They provide a more positive look on mankind. These photos look more like a guilt trip.

    1. Re:Voyager discs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ditto - It's almost a smack in the face to the attention to detail that went into the Voyager discs including the schematic explanations of how to read the disc and rasterize the images. And Voyager actually had the backbone to leave the solar system - good thing it also contains directions on how to identify our planet from which it originated!

    2. Re:Voyager discs by adolf · · Score: 2
    3. Re:Voyager discs by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      because the earth ISN'T full of people living under the thumb of a few rich countries with politicians in the pockets of mega-corporations, who wage wars of choice?

    4. Re:Voyager discs by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In particular, the pictures show very, very little about who this mysterious species that created the disk happens to be. I like the cave paintings, but who cares what a glacier looks like? Or a tornado? Or big waves? Or the inside of a mine/tunnel? How about showing a boat where you can actually see the people? Any space-faring race that finds Earth will have trillions of photographs of interesting geology in their libraries.

      Voyager was a sincere attempt to be testimony on the human species. This is just a testimony on the grandiose artistic pretensions of one specific human.

    5. Re:Voyager discs by WGFCrafty · · Score: 1

      I think you mean Pioneer's plaque as it has pictures and Voyager contains analog audio recordings.

      Funny thing, there was controversy about Sagan putting naked humans on it, god forbid!

    6. Re:Voyager discs by WGFCrafty · · Score: 1

      Sorry, read your post wrong. I see where you're coming from, but is it dishonest to portray humans as the most peaceful race? I mean we do a lot of morally questionable things..

    7. Re:Voyager discs by skelly33 · · Score: 1

      The Voyager record contains audio and image data. I have digital copies of them on CD. it also contains some of the information that the Pioneer 10 plaque had related to reading the disk, and locating Earth's sun, as I posted as an AC above. Here's some more on Voyager's version which came as an improvement to the earlier Pioneer 10 plaque:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

      "[Carl] Sagan and his associates assembled 116 images and a variety of natural sounds (...) [as well as] musical selections from different cultures and eras, spoken greetings in fifty-five languages, and printed messages..."

    8. Re:Voyager discs by jeti · · Score: 1

      Realistically, the messages are messages to ourselves. It's ok for them to be about what we want to be, to provide inspiration to our descendants and ourselves.

    9. Re:Voyager discs by graphius · · Score: 1

      As a photographer (alanklughammer.com) WTF is up with these images? Most of them are just random scenes with no redeeming qualities that I can see.... except maybe they were royalty free....
      I agree, at least the voyager images said something, and then they came back as a hot bald chick (ok, they possessed a hot bald chick)

    10. Re:Voyager discs by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 1

      Scientifically speaking, homo sapiens sapiens is a hypersocial species -- an extreme rarity outside of social insects and herding/schooling animals (and the latter are not necessarily sweetness and light to each other). Most other species that are considered mere highly social tend to avoid interacting with more than one or two dozen individuals ever. (How big is a wolf pack? How big is a whale pod? How big is a troop of other primates?)

      An individual human in an urban environment going to an office job many have a minor social contact with one or two hundreds individuals and significant social contact with dozens of individuals in a single workday. Of those reactions, each is about 100X (or more) as likely to be highly friendly than obviously hostile. (Did that stranger glare at you for daring to get in the same elevator? Or hold the door?)

      For all that bemoan human failings, the underlying reason we do so is we are a species with such high standards to live up to, and we have high standards precisely because we are extraordinarily "cuddly" as a species.

      Yes, we absolutely should highlight the morally questionable things we do. That we do so is something to be proud of. But let's also keep the greater context in mind at the same time.

    11. Re:Voyager discs by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 1

      And that is yet another reason I think the selection is artistically dreadful. Sure, put in a military UAV targeting image -- I do not have any problem with one or two such pictures in the lot. But they are all so consistently bleak, and only one shows actual people with any clarity. The whole seems to more than slightly tinged by misanthropy; there is more awe with how beautiful that which not human really is, than even awe of just plain beautiful things.

  12. Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by Scarletdown · · Score: 5, Funny

    Designed to last for 5 billion years? Won't it and the Earth be one with the sun in about 3 or 4 billion?

    Anyway, I think we should baffle the aliens with a bit of bullshit and have a set of pictures that are screenshots of the Death Star destroying Alderaan. Hilarity ensues when word gets out about this and aliens from all over the galaxy scramble to tear up our long dead world in search of any useful information about this tech that allowed the great and ancient civilization that thrived here to build a space station with enough firepower to destroy an entire planet.

    --
    This space unintentionally left blank.
    1. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, we also need the obligatory Goatse picture as well.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I was wondering that too. A couple of searches though seems to indicate that the Sun will not start to enter the Red Giant phase for another 5 billion years.

      However, after only another billion years the oceans should boil off due to the extra solar output. I sincerely doubt a gold disk is going to survive in orbit long enough to be destroyed by the beginnings of the Red Giant phase.

    3. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 1

      Seems to me it'd be pulverized by a meteor long before that anyhow...

    4. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by ldobehardcore · · Score: 2

      RE: the deathstar joke,

      Totally gave me a flashback to Galaxy Quest with Tim Allen. The ultra-advanced race of aliens have no concept of deception or even untruth, so they believed the Galaxy Quest show (read Star Trek) was filmed-as-it-happened documentary, and used it to develop their ship. Heh. I can't believe a species as or more intelligent than us could ever survive without a concept of deception....

      And if life is common in the galaxy or universe, life advanced enough to do convenient interstellar travel, would it be a surprise if hoaxers and pranksters would put these kinds of "significant objects" in orbit around a bunch of planets, just to piss off other species, or teenagers pranking their own civilizations?

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    5. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    6. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funniest part about this idea is you could point the planets orbit to the asteroid field to make it look like truth.

      "Sir, uh, yeah, remember that picture with a huge planetary object with some sort of energy beam coming out and a planet exploding? We found what the words mean, it points to this position between the 4th planet and the gas giants"
      "Ooh, uh, yeah, let's leave before they come back! These people aren't friendly at all!"

      Earth banned from the rest of the galaxy.

    7. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by Life2Death · · Score: 1

      Hurray for more space garbage!!

    8. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by Bengie · · Score: 1

      " I can't believe a species as or more intelligent than us could ever survive without a concept of deception...." Probably because it would be beneficial to the individual to be able to positively manipulate others, creating deception, which would give an evolutionary advantage over others, meaning those creatures that can understand deception would have a better chance to preocreate.

    9. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Designed to last for 5 billion years? Won't it and the Earth be one with the sun in about 3 or 4 billion?

      Anyway, I think we should baffle the aliens with a bit of bullshit and have a set of pictures that are screenshots of the Death Star destroying Alderaan. Hilarity ensues when word gets out about this and aliens from all over the galaxy scramble to tear up our long dead world in search of any useful information about this tech that allowed the great and ancient civilization that thrived here to build a space station with enough firepower to destroy an entire planet.

      Don't forget to include the secret construction plans that the rebels can steal, revealing an exhaust vent as the key weakness allowing it to be destroyed... Starfighter pilots everywhere will spend a parsec or two patting themselves on the back for how important they all are...

    10. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      ... They found the remains of a Rebel base, but they estimate that it has been deserted for some time. They are now conducting an extensive search of the surrounding systems.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    11. Re:Overkill by 1 or 2 Billion Years by strikethree · · Score: 2

      Designed to last for 5 billion years? Won't it and the Earth be one with the sun in about 3 or 4 billion?

      It is called quality. You overshoot the design estimations so that when unforeseen things happen, your thingy is still useful. Not much of it about nowadays unfortunately.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  13. Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to aliens by Empiric · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My first question on this concept would be, "Why would the hypothetical aliens expect to find a message from us to them in orbit, and look there amongst all the other orbital junk?"

    Seems that the most natural thing to expect would be that one should look for informative objects where the culture lived, for which, off the top of my head, "encasement of pictures in a huge block of plexiglass, on Earth" seems more likely to actually be discovered. This seems akin to a historical human culture saying, "We want to make sure that future people know about us and what our ways were, so let's walk 500 miles away from where we live and all our buildings are, and put some paintings up in the mountains."

    --
    ~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
  14. Futility at its purest by sa666u · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why do people love stroking their ego so much? Is it so hard to comprehend that in terms of the universe our lives are completely meaningless?

    1. Re:Futility at its purest by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is more for when the astronauts time warp into the future and discover humans are subservient to apes. It will be proof it should be the other way around and help the humans reclaim their status and we won't need to watch old actors yell those damn dirty apes again..

    2. Re:Futility at its purest by Nukedoom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whaaaa? Why do you say that? We are the Universe--we're the conscious part, a beautiful self-aware organism. We didn't create ourselves, but we are the product of a vastly complex series of interactions taking place over the course of billions of years.

      We're as about as meaningful as anything the Universe has brought into existence, if not more.

    3. Re:Futility at its purest by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 2

      But the utility of that contraption kicks in only after we are no more, so your argument will no longer be valid.

      So I agree with the GP. Also, I find depressing that some people are counting on the extinction of mankind, and are more worried about the time after that and some hipotetical aliens (who may not even exist or come close to Sun, let alone find a piece of debris around a dead planet).

      In essence, this gets to be both a silly and depressing idea. Great boooh.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    4. Re:Futility at its purest by sa666u · · Score: 2

      We're as about as meaningful as anything the Universe has brought into existence...

      Exactly my point. If the planet dies tomorrow in a fiery explosion, the Universe will not be a bit different. Noone will notice and noone will care. I think that sending a plaque with (pathetic and preachy) pictures in orbit is arrogant and self centered. I don't even want to raise the question about space junk and how would "aliens" differentiate between debris and inspirational plaques.

    5. Re:Futility at its purest by Nukedoom · · Score: 1

      Ohh, I don't care for the contraption. It doesn't strike me as particularly effective--more symbolic than anything else. I can appreciate the gesture, though. And isn't that what this largely is? Part of the idea is that hopefully, somewhere out there is life. This is sort of a way to reach out to them. It's very human to me--reaching out towards the unknown, hoping for someone to be there.

      I'm trying to fill in the gaps here, but I'm having some trouble understanding. How would my argument no longer be valid? Let me try from one perspective, and let me know if I got it wrong.

      Let's say we all die. Does that make our existence any less meaningful? Possibly.

      I guess some people would say yes, and others would say no. I don't think there's a decisive way to prove one or the other wrong. I'd like to think there are two ways to think about life--either everything's futile or some things are meaningful.

      On the scale of planets and galaxies, I existed for a short time--hardly any time at all. But I experienced it. These things did not. And even though I'll fade, and they'll stay for another couple billions years, I'd rather have known than not known at all. But each to his own.

    6. Re:Futility at its purest by Nukedoom · · Score: 2

      It doesn't strike me as particularly effective either--more symbolic than anything else. I can appreciate the gesture, though. And isn't that what this largely is? Part of the idea is that hopefully, somewhere out there is life. This is sort of a way to reach out to them. It's very human to me--reaching out towards the unknown, hoping for someone to be there.

      I'd like to think there are two ways to think about life--either everything's futile or some things are meaningful. I don't think there's a decisive way to prove one or the other wrong.

      On the scale of planets and galaxies, I existed for a short time--hardly any time at all. But I experienced it. These things did not. And even though I'll fade, and they'll stay for another couple billions years, I'd rather have known than not known at all. But each to his own.

    7. Re:Futility at its purest by sa666u · · Score: 1

      IMHO "meaning" is a human concept. We simply exist and that's it. Everything else attached to it is simply ego trippin. When you are dead does it matter that you have known?

    8. Re:Futility at its purest by TuringTest · · Score: 2

      When you are dead does it matter that you have known?

      No, but it matters while we are still alive. That's the essence of everything we can think of.

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    9. Re:Futility at its purest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why do people love stroking their ego so much? Is it so hard to comprehend that in terms of the universe our lives are completely meaningless?

      Ah, the obligatory +3 Insightful for not having enough Insight to understand that "meaning" is a human concept. Everything is meaningless in terms of the Universe.

    10. Re:Futility at its purest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What a depressingly sad outlook you have.

      I believe life, particularly intelligent life, gives the universe meaning.

    11. Re:Futility at its purest by Sigg3.net · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your life may be meaningless, mine is not. That aside, while our lives may be meaningless in this scale, it doesn't mean that we are meaningless. Every part is equally a part of the universe.

    12. Re:Futility at its purest by sa666u · · Score: 1

      Not my life. My existence is meaningless. My conscience forms an idea as to what is meaningful - find cure for cancer, smoke weed all day, kill all the Jews, etc. and then it it motivates me to act accordingly. Meaning is a human construct.

    13. Re:Futility at its purest by sa666u · · Score: 1

      I believe life, particularly intelligent life, gives the universe meaning.

      That's exactly what I'm saying. :)

    14. Re:Futility at its purest by Evtim · · Score: 1

      I believe life, particularly intelligent life, gives the universe meaning.

      Whoaaa, arrogant much?!? This sentiment, my friend, is what a number of anthropologist have called "The most dangerous idea". Because naturally, you don't really mean "intelligent life" - you mean humans in general and you in particular. Yhea, the whole universe would be nothing , nothing I tell you, without some self-righteous intelligent life to give it a "meaning". From that sentiment follows the other one - that we, in fact OWN the Universe (Earth in particular); it is OURS and we can do with it whatever we damn well please...it is just a decor, a theater set for us, the pinnacles of creation!

      I think someone needs a peep in the Total Perspective Vortex :)

    15. Re:Futility at its purest by Fr33z0r · · Score: 1

      In terms of the universe, yep, we're pretty meaningless. In terms of other species, we're anything but.

      Look at all the cool stuff we learned from different human cultures on this planet alone. Then think about how excited we get about the prospect of just finding simple bacteria on another planet. There's no way an alien species sufficiently advanced to be exploring our solar system would find a record of our history and think "meh, just humans, nothing worth seeing here"

      There's a healthy middle ground between ego stroking, and the complete debasement of all of human history.

    16. Re:Futility at its purest by Bengie · · Score: 1

      I think the whole point is if our time truly is meaningless, then this action doesn't hurt. We have nothing to lose, which means there is only potential to gain.

    17. Re:Futility at its purest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I think someone should really stop making over assumptions about what others say.

    18. Re:Futility at its purest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humanity is a fart in the colon of time.

    19. Re:Futility at its purest by sa666u · · Score: 1

      One of my favorite quotes of all time - "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.". I'm quite misanthropic, so no, the examples you are giving do not make my heart warm. They are the achievements of few exceptional individuals, despite the rest of humanity, not thanks to the rest of humanity. The majority of us simply take credit for belonging to the same species and want to feel included. Whether our existence would be of interest to hypothetical intelligent extraterrestrial life is a philosophical question with many aspects so I'd refrain myself from making any assumptions.

    20. Re:Futility at its purest by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

      I'm trying to fill in the gaps here, but I'm having some trouble understanding. How would my argument no longer be valid? Let me try from one perspective, and let me know if I got it wrong.

      You stated that

      we are the universe, we are the consciuous part of it

      . If this satellite is useful, it means that then we would no longer be alive, not to say conscious. It is like buying a bumper sticker that you can only put when your car is in the junk yard.

      Let's say we all die. Does that make our existence any less meaningful? Possibly.

      In the event, I won't care about the futility of existence because I will be dead. And, as I do know now that I won't care then, I don't care now. That does not mean that I would like to die now.

      Also, who told you existence has(or has to have) a meaning (other than itself)?

      I guess some people would say yes, and others would say no. I don't think there's a decisive way to prove one or the other wrong. I'd like to think there are two ways to think about life--either everything's futile or some things are meaningful.

      On the scale of planets and galaxies, I existed for a short time--hardly any time at all. But I experienced it. These things did not. And even though I'll fade, and they'll stay for another couple billions years, I'd rather have known than not known at all. But each to his own.

      That is not the issue being discussed. What the GGGP said (and I agreed) that the project is just an (expensive) form of a "I was here" graffitti... and has the same uses ("hey, surely people who walks by this wall in the future will be VERY interested to know that I was here and I did a graffiti here"). And at least you can meet the graffiter in person someday, but this satellite is thought to be found when nobody is here to be met.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    21. Re:Futility at its purest by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

      I think the whole point is if our time truly is meaningless, then this action doesn't hurt. We have nothing to lose, which means there is only potential to gain.

      I will follow your logic and see how it scalates: If your time is truly meaningless, you should leave your job and family, go to live to the step of a granite mountain and start carving your name (or whatever inspired words you chose); this action doesn't hurt. You have nothing to lose, which means there is only potential for you to gain.

      When I see someone doing things like that (ok, not exactly that, but trying to present themselves "for posterity"; look at political leaders for clues) I know that they are not doing that for posterity, but for the fuzzy warm feeling of being so "important" that the posterity "needs their words".

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    22. Re:Futility at its purest by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe; attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion; I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost... in time, like... tears... in rain.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    23. Re:Futility at its purest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do people love stroking their ego so much?

      s/ego/penis/

      The reason is basically the same.

    24. Re:Futility at its purest by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Why do people love stroking their ego so much? Is it so hard to comprehend that in terms of the universe our lives are completely meaningless?

      Whoah whoah whoah there buddy. Wouldn't it have been awesome if the Martians had left a similar disc? Has anyone checked to see if they did? It is not about vanity. It is about being fucking awesome to those who come after.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    25. Re:Futility at its purest by WGFCrafty · · Score: 1

      Is it hard to understand the difference between insignificant and meaningless?

    26. Re:Futility at its purest by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      It isn't a construct inasmuch as activity is a construction. Meaningful does not necessarily mean the "great goals" you mention:)

      I find it meaningful to run, for instance. Not because I'm in great shape or enjoy working out, but it feels right somehow. And when stuff feels right, stuff happens in my brain that makes me happy. Is it meaningful in the "constructed" sense you mentioned? Not at all (unless counterfactually I'm a great runner winning a prize, status etc.)

      But I'm way off topic. I was merely pointing out that you presuppose meaning by saying that our lives are completely meaningless. If we think of it in terms of _what exists_ then _every existing thing_ exists just as much; and in that sense, every part of the universe is equally meaningful.

  15. How will they find it? by erroneus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's "more space junk." If there was this lone object in orbit? Okay maybe. But we're talking about our planet with lots of stuff up there now. LOTS of stuff. And then meteor showers and crap?

    And even if somehow this one trinket found its way into the hands/claws/tentacles of a being from space, are they supposed to be convinced of something? I mean really. Oh look, among all this stuff, there are creatures out there... sending some kind of message... I will go visit them!

    "Mixed message" is the best we've got? And for fuck's sake... we've got actual people in orbit... people to talk to.

    1. Re:How will they find it? by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Interesting. We have found no evidence of life ANYWHERE else in the entire universe... and yet you say that if we found something like this we would just go, "Meh"? Oh right. Life is so common that any species/race that can travel amongst stars would have already found thousands of such civilizations still thriving so who cares about a life form that may be utterly alien to anything you have ever ran across before. *sigh*

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    2. Re:How will they find it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you had bothered to read the article you would know it is attached to a communications satellite.

  16. Why a disc? by ccguy · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Maybe they could have just put printed pictures, well protected. Why use a disc they won't know how the fuck use, so they are pissed at us before even meeting?
    At the very least put an Ikea-like manual (no text, just pictures, where things just "click") with it.

    1. Re:Why a disc? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Maybe they could have just put printed pictures, well protected.

      I don't expect people to read the articles - this is Slashdot, after all - but you could have at least read the summary.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  17. FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > The problem: What do you leave behind that billions of years from now, and without context, would give aliens an some kind of accurate depiction of mankind.

    The problem: what piece of art can you create, seemingly relevant in a cynical time-period where everything has been done, that will generate sentimentality in a transient art consuming world?

    FTFY

  18. The Inner Light by McDrewbie · · Score: 1

    We can do a better job. How about something like the probe from the ST:TNG episode "The Inner Light." The only problem would be what tune/melody/song would the person engaged with probe learn how to play? We could auction it off the rights or hold some sort of Global Idol song contest, but we would probably end up with some piece of pop dribble or some old, boring classical piece. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inner_Light_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation

    1. Re:The Inner Light by PReDiToR · · Score: 1

      We could consider ourselves a lot more special and worthy of note if one day we could do something more like The Chase.

      --

      Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
  19. Good if the aliens grasp human aesthetics by Maxmin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Without the context of human perception and aesthetics, many of these images may appear as random noise to an alien species!

    Abstract artistic expression works for some of us, but might not be communicating directly enough to clearly convey ideas, concepts, facts, history, even human being's notions of beauty, the latter of which clearly was the curator's primary objective.

    I'm not knocking the images themselves. But without the context of human eyes, human life and experience... these will have little or no meaning to anyone who has never lived earth.

    --
    O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
    1. Re:Good if the aliens grasp human aesthetics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I would be very disappointed if this really was one of the last artifacts left to show that humans once existed. I don't think that's at all likely, but if it did happen, the choice of images speaks of a species with little imagination for other viewpoints.

      I am honestly hoping that in a century or two, somebody retrieves this thing and puts it in a museum on the ground. That's a far more appropriate place for it.

    2. Re:Good if the aliens grasp human aesthetics by hairyfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not knocking the images themselves. But without the context of human eyes, human life and experience... these will have little or no meaning to anyone who has never lived earth.

      Well I have lived on the earth, my whole life in fact, and even I struggled to figure what half these photos were about. Silly blurry arty black and white shit may work in the cool end of town, but when you're attempting to communicate with foreigners, you need to keep it as simple as possible.

    3. Re:Good if the aliens grasp human aesthetics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meat is meat, it all looks similar after some processing...

    4. Re:Good if the aliens grasp human aesthetics by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I also am dubious about the particular choice of pictures. But it would be stupid to do anything other than monochrome. RGB colour only works because of the biology of the human eye, that has receptors for these 3 particular wavelengths of light. Similarly CMYK and every other colour system depends on how human sight works.

      Of course we can make no guarantees that the aliens would have something that that we can recognise as sight. Although for a race to make it to earth, some way of making sense of a scene by detecting some part(s) of the electromagnetic spectrum seems likely.

      *IF* the aliens do have something that we recognise as sight and/or recognise the concept of a picture, it's much more likely that they'll be able to recognise monochrome ones than an arbitrary system of colour.

      As you say, keep it simple.

    5. Re:Good if the aliens grasp human aesthetics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I have lived on the earth, my whole life in fact, and even I struggled to figure what half these photos were about. Silly blurry arty black and white sh** may work in the cool end of town, but when you're attempting to communicate with foreigners, you need to keep it as simple as possible.

      Alien Starship Captain: Is the analysis complete, Technical Officer !*\Bzrop?
      Alien Technician: Sir! After thorough analysis of the images printed on the orbiting artifact, it is the Technical Officer's opinion that the lifeforms responsible for it's fabrication are artsy-douchebags, sir!
      Alien Starship Captain: (extends pseudopod from main body, angrily thrusts it into the approximate center of mass of Technical Officer !*\Bzrop; !*\Bzrop folds over, it's outer membrane expelling a puff of ClO3) What did you say?!?
      Alien Technician: Sir! The Technician stands by this analysis. Furthermore, it is the Technician's belief that were the assessment to be reversed or in any way altered, the Captain would inflict further punishment. Sir! (the last word is formed with difficulty as !*\Bzrop still recovers from the vicious blow).
      Alien Starship Captain: (shambles closer to the 3D display projected into the space of the ship's bridge: an image of the blue ball wreathed in strands of cottony white that is Earth) Artsy-douchebags, you say? Not merely douchebags? Or simply douches?
      Alien Technician: Sir! That is correct, sir! ( !*\Bzrop has regained its earlier healthy pallor, and now stands as more or less columnar mass, indicating the expected attitude of attention)
      Alien Starship Captain: (the form of the Captain pulses momentarily -- their species equivalent of shrug coupled with resignation) So be it. I expect a report filed by next cycle. I'll be happy when we can finally unload the schematics for the instantaneous matter transmitter and universal DNA rationalizer. I'm getting too old for this excrement. Pilot: engage the overthrusters!

        We'll try back in 500 Galactic Cycles.

  20. Misinformation by McDrewbie · · Score: 1

    Though we probably f'd our future descendants with all the EM we have been spraying out into the ether, either unintentional leakage or purposeful broadcasts, any hard-copy information should give misleading information about our home system, so that no being would be able to find the coordinates of Earth Of course we would also have to do something to alter the trajectory of any craft we send out, so it couldn't merely be tracked backwards. We don't want any aliens coming 1000 years from now demanding we give them McNeal.

    1. Re:Misinformation by ldobehardcore · · Score: 1

      Ah, Futurama. Now you've got the phrase "compellingly short garment" stuck in my head

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    2. Re:Misinformation by mbone · · Score: 1

      It's going to rather hard to hide the Earth from something aliens find in Earth orbit. They won't need a map or trajectory to figure that one out.

  21. Another worthless stunt by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Why does this even get any press at all. It is just plain stupid.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  22. Value for money? by dimethylxanthine · · Score: 0

    Why not use something a bit more durable and less expensive?

    1. Re:Value for money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because an etched picture doesn't require a reading and playback mechanism.

  23. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My first question on this concept would be, "Why would the hypothetical aliens expect to find a message from us to them in orbit, and look there amongst all the other orbital junk?"

    The Earth's surface is A. fucking huge, B. complex enough to require high-resolution imaging to spot a monument of reasonable size, and C. subject to geological processes.

    I'd suggest a 100 m^2 corner-cube, but of course more surface area = more solar perturbation, so there's a limit on how big... but if you can get it big enough, it'll be far more conspicuous than anything we could put on Earth.

  24. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by Zocalo · · Score: 1

    I rather think that plate tectonics and vulcanism would put paid to any monument left on Earth for up to a couple of billion years. The moon or one of the other balls of rock might be a better option from a geological perspective, but would still be vulnerable to a suitably large meteor strike in the vicinity. A small object like a satellite floating around in space is probably going to have the best chance of survival, but the flipside is that it simply isn't very likely to be found unless it can be discriminated from all of the other lumps of ice, rock and dead satellites spinning around the sun.

    Realistically, the only way I can see for us to leave a message for an alien race in the distant future is to get our asses off this rock and colonize as many other star systems as possible in the hope that something will still be around when they arrive, ideally that will include distant descendants. Quite simply, we don't currently have the technology to build something that can plausibly survive those kinds of timescales and also be significant enough to guarantee even a miniscule chance of being found.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  25. They want to meet Ferengi or what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, that's the stupides idea I've seen all morning and I am afraid it's going to stick for the whole week.

  26. Lame choice of photos by Maow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I quickly browsed the images and had a couple thoughts.

    1) Why didn't they etch images unencoded? Simply make micro images in high detail (ala microfiche) so they don't have to be decoded?

    2) I really didn't think the choice of photos was representative of life on earth. No cityscapes, no human faces close up, no animals / pets (inter-species friendship for example), no image of something technological such as a state of the art mobile phone / laptop. No images of agriculture or even a bouquet of beautiful flowers.

    Hell, I could barely tell what some images were supposed to be (well, number 1 took a couple seconds - I thought it was a crystalline structure, number two I haven't figured out yet).

    I did like earth from space, but how about an image of Armstrong / Aldrin on the moon? A passenger jet taking off showing outside & in?

    So many choices, so poorly selected IMHO.

    1. Re:Lame choice of photos by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

      no animals / pets (inter-species friendship for example)

      What is that you want, the alien version of goatse?

      Anyway, more seriously, the Armstrong / Aldrin photo in the moon is a good idea, but the "state of the art technology" will become obsolete and meaningless to ourselves in perhaps half a generation, that is a bad example.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    2. Re:Lame choice of photos by Maow · · Score: 1

      no animals / pets (inter-species friendship for example)

      Anyway, more seriously, the Armstrong / Aldrin photo in the moon is a good idea, but the "state of the art technology" will become obsolete and meaningless to ourselves in perhaps half a generation, that is a bad example.

      It's true that the technology would be obsolete rather quickly, but in the billion-year time frame under consideration, it would give an idea of how we interact with our (non-satellite consumer) tech. i.e. a human face gazing at a smart phone with a map displayed, or a video call...

      A human interacting with a laptop showing the screen (data consumption & manipulation) & human face again...

      I still think it would be worthwhile.

      Once we have space elevator(s), we can "upload" more current images of our tech, how's that? ;-)

    3. Re:Lame choice of photos by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      1) Why didn't they etch images unencoded? Simply make micro images in high detail (ala microfiche) so they don't have to be decoded?

      Isn't that exactly what they've done? A lot of people seem to have missed this. They're etched on the blue centre of the disc.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    4. Re:Lame choice of photos by Maow · · Score: 1

      1) Why didn't they etch images unencoded? Simply make micro images in high detail (ala microfiche) so they don't have to be decoded?

      Isn't that exactly what they've done? A lot of people seem to have missed this. They're etched on the blue centre of the disc.

      Now that you mention it, yes, it looks like they have. Although the disk appears cut away.

      Harrumph - like I said, it would be a good idea...

      *looks away, pretends to be busy*

    5. Re:Lame choice of photos by mbone · · Score: 1

      Once we have space elevators, the disc and the Echostar satellite it is attached to will be a dangerous nuisance and will be junked and removed in some fashion.

      The best this disc can probably hope for is to be put in a landfill on the Moon (energetically easier to get to). More likely, it will be in the Air and Space Museum (or its equivalent) by 2112 or so.

    6. Re:Lame choice of photos by strikethree · · Score: 1

      You should have been on the team choosing the photos. Your ideas and thoughts are clear and have meaning. I fully agree.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  27. context interpretation by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here's what I dislike about the pictures that I've seen on the project website:

    Most of them would make bugger all sense to an alien species. Heck, some of them are hard to make sense of if you are a human.

    I, too, think the Voyager pictures were a better selection. They provide information about scale and location, something that these pictures don't. Many of them require you to have an understanding of humans and/or human culture to make sense. For example, the indoor pictures have no objective indicators of scale. There is absolutely no hint to tell future alien watchers if these are images of something microscopic, macroscopic, inbetween? Whatever this picture is showing, for example, does not even tell the alien if the area shown in the image is 5 mm, 5 cm, 5m, 50m or whatever across. The skeleton in the top-right corner is largely hidden, it only makes sense as a scale measure if you are a human and your brain is trained on filling in the blanks of other humanoid shapes.

    Also, I agree that at least from the selection they show on their webpage, way too many of them show natural catastrophies and doom and gloom.

    I miss images that would make alien visitors in the not-5-billion-years distant future help make sense of the ruins of our civilization. If you include pictures of cave paintings, why not a city or two? A million years from now, there won't be anything of either left, but a few thousand years from now, ruins of our cities will still be there even if we go away tomorrow.

    And why the focus on humans? What about the other 99% of biomass on the planet?

    For a project this expensive, it looks way too much like a high school project to me. Amateurish.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:context interpretation by fufufang · · Score: 5, Informative
    2. Re:context interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If these aliens are reduced to finding out about us by looking at the disc then perhaps pictures of catastrophe's are quite appropriate?

    3. Re:context interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the picture is of an old-time medical operating room, but it would have been more instructive to aliens if the picture was of an actual operation. Having a bare room without even instruments or people would just be mystifying to an alien race.

    4. Re:context interpretation by bef · · Score: 1

      Also why show pictures of a wind hose or a crystal?

    5. Re:context interpretation by balbus000 · · Score: 1

      Looking through those somehow made me really happy :)

    6. Re:context interpretation by strikethree · · Score: 1

      The Voyager program is one of the defining moments of human history. It may even be one of the defining moments in the entire universe if we are the first sentient beings to have woken up from oblivion and have tried to communicate with something other than ourselves. 50 thousand years from now if humans still exist (in some form) the Voyager program will be discussed... even if it must be in secret because anti-intellectualism won. Other than actually walking on the moon, I can not think of any action that humans have taken that can be compared in importance. Of course, actually becoming sentient IS the "hugest" thing but that is not an action.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  28. 5 billion years is very optimistic by Hentes · · Score: 2

    Orbits around the Earth are affected by the Moon, that satellite won't just stay there for so long. They would be better off with a Lagrange orbit. Also, if it's only 100 pictures they should've engraved them on the disks rather than using a digital format the aliens have little chance to decrypt.

    1. Re:5 billion years is very optimistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are etched on the disc visually.

    2. Re:5 billion years is very optimistic by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      apparently they did etch the images onto the disk.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    3. Re:5 billion years is very optimistic by Hentes · · Score: 1

      Oh, didn't see them the first time. But if they are that small, they should need some protection against radiation or micrometeoroids.

    4. Re:5 billion years is very optimistic by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      probably why they used gold on a quartz substrate. Both chemically inert; the quartz is very hard (hence pretty robust) the gold is fairly immune to hard radiation to boot. Pretty much the only thing that's going to destroy the plate is a direct impact or an encounter with a quantity of cyanide followed by a liberal sprinkling with hydrofluoric acid.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  29. asked the wrong people.... by ushere · · Score: 0

    should have asked an alien - there's plenty of them living around here....

  30. Seriously ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... nobody suggested porn?

    1. Re:Seriously ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's my thought, too.
      Your post is the only one with the word.

  31. Why do they think it will stay up so long? by maxwells_deamon · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Any course correction fuel will quickly (relatively) be used up. Geosynchronous satellites have course correction systems to keep them in the proper orbits.

    Yes air resistance is minor at that distance from earth but they have not solved the three body problem. Tidal forces from the moon will eventually disturb the orbits and that will be the end of it. If this was not the case, we would have tiny natural moons around the earth.

    Now if they put the disk in one of the L points they might have a chance.

    PS: from an orbital mechanics point of view, geosynchronous orbits are not special. They just happen to take the same amount of time as a rotation of the earth. When the length of the day changes over the time frame mentioned, the orbits will no longer be geosynchronous. A billion years is long enough for the moon to change the rotation speed of the earth.

    1. Re:Why do they think it will stay up so long? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Any course correction fuel will quickly (relatively) be used up. Geosynchronous satellites have course correction systems to keep them in the proper orbits.

      Why do they think it will stay up so long? Because they've done the math, while you've just waved your hands around vigorously.
       
      For example, geosynchronous satellites require curse correction not to stay *in* orbit, but to stay in a very precise position *in* orbit - a very significant difference.
       

      Yes air resistance is minor at that distance from earth but they have not solved the three body problem. Tidal forces from the moon will eventually disturb the orbits and that will be the end of it. If this was not the case, we would have tiny natural moons around the earth.

      Yes, eventually. But in this case, eventually works out to five billion years as the three body effects are very, very small. Your statement about "tiny natural moons" is an assumption you've (groundlessly) converted into fact. I invite you to consider the LAGEOS satellite, which orbits much lower and is expected to re-enter in a "mere" 8.4 million years.
       

      Now if they put the disk in one of the L points they might have a chance.

      Hardly. The L points are about as unstable as you can get - all it takes is a very tiny perturbation and you're ejected from orbit around the L point.

  32. It would also make quantum encryption futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...

  33. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    What if alien life in 5 billion years has evolved to look nothing like it is today? They could be bags, of mostly energy, with no real bodies.

    "Zodon, please place the Solid Gold Aliens Top 100 Hits CD in the player, so we can decode it."

    "I can't, Korgos, we are bags of mostly energy, with no real bodies, and we have no hands."

    We should have included a fart app on the CD. That one really never seems to get old.

    And then the aliens could really understand our intelligence level.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  34. How will they find this one? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Amongst the hundreds of thousands of orbiting satellites not to mention the garbage floating around the planet how are they supposed to find one little disc? Hell they could make it the size of a shopping mall and they'd still have difficulty locating this. Combined with the fact that I think the future of our planet looks a lot like the few opening scenes from Wall-E I don't have much hope at all for this every being anything than a colossal waste of money.

  35. Pointless crap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't believe time, energy and money is put into stupid shit like this which has no purpose whatsoever. It should be criminal.

  36. Where's the p0rn? by aNonnyMouseCowered · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe I'm browsing the project site wrong, but all I saw were about a dozen photographs? None show images of naked humans that can at least give a hint of what a human looks without the environmental protection suit. Photos of couples having sex and babies can also explain the nature of human reproduction. We're not androids that just rolled off the some fab lab.

    1. Re:Where's the p0rn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then they would have to include an MP3 of Bonk, Bonk , Chika Wow wow

  37. Encode them as JPEG... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so at least those alien fuckers have to work for it.

  38. Won't last that long by jonfr · · Score: 4, Informative

    The hops this satellite is going last 5 billion years at the orbit of 30.000 km is just nonsense. The orbit is too low and unstable at best, even if this is geosync orbit. He would have needed a orbit pattern of at least 600.000 km (outside the orbit of the moon) to get this goal. Outside forces are more likely to push the satellite towards Earth in few thousands years. Rather then from it. Orbital debris is also going to be a major problem in the long term.

    1. Re:Won't last that long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should just build a giant pillar on the earth for the aliens to find.
      Put it in the center of one of the continental plates where there is little chance of it getting sucked back into the earths core.

    2. Re:Won't last that long by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Outside forces are more likely to push the satellite towards Earth in few thousands years.

      I bet automated space-junk cleaners pick it up first. Which will be no loss - this is just a stupid, expensive, dangerous art project.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:Won't last that long by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was kind of wondering that too. 5 billion years is a LONG time. Even a single atom hitting something in orbit may have enough of an effect that the disc will no longer be in orbit in 5 billion years. Even a million years is tough row to hoe. Place it on the almost geologically dead moon and you might get your 5 billion years. Even then, it will have to be excavated after being buried from other bodies impacting the surface of the moon. Actually, in 5 billion years, I suspect there is a reasonable chance the disc will suffer a direct hit.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  39. Poor choices, but off by a few billion years too? by Orphaze · · Score: 1

    I agree with everyone else about the poor choices of photos that are vaguely artistic rather than actual useful or communicative to a potential alien species, but I also have another issue: 5 billion years?

    My understanding was that most orbits decay eventually. I know this is close to geosync and not like the ISS, but is it really likely such a orbit would remain stable for 5 billion-freaking-years? I mean, even assuming no other outside objects cross paths with this satellite, won't its orbit eventually decay? Wikipedia's page on geostationary orbit, specifically orbital stability says this: "In the absence of servicing missions from the Earth or a renewable propulsion method, the consumption of thruster propellant for station-keeping places a limitation on the lifetime of the satellite."

    Anyone with a greater knowledge on orbital stability, please chime in.

  40. already proposed for 10 years by KEO by Herve5 · · Score: 1

    http://www.keo.org/

    Not that I believe in its interest at any rate, but there is a guy that proposed this to UN in 2000, and has been announcing launch dates every two years since then...

    At least he made a living out of it for himself, and seems sincere...

    --
    Herve S.
    1. Re:already proposed for 10 years by KEO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.keo.org/

      Not that I believe in its interest at any rate, but there is a guy that proposed this to UN in 2000, and has been announcing launch dates every two years since then...

      At least he made a living out of it for himself, and seems sincere...

      He seemed sincere, considering he died in 2008.

    2. Re:already proposed for 10 years by KEO by VicVegas · · Score: 1

      http://www.keo.org/

      Not that I believe in its interest at any rate, but there is a guy that proposed this to UN in 2000, and has been announcing launch dates every two years since then...

      At least he made a living out of it for himself, and seems sincere...

      Ummm, the Keo guy is dead. He began his new career of pushin' up the daisies on November 12, 2008.

  41. Boy oh boy. by detlefvonberg · · Score: 1

    This selection of images is an accurate representation of the human species only in the sense that both are incredibly wasteful embarrassments.

  42. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by 1u3hr · · Score: 2

    Put it on the moon, buried in Tycho crater with a magnetic bullseye to direct future travellers to it.

  43. Rock roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if this isn't an oppertunity for the most epic rick roll EVER, then I don't know what is.

  44. just a very expensive ad campaign to sell a book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    this is to sell a book. Stop looking for deeper meaning and taking this group literally, discussing details like why there aren't any pictures of humans, or pictures of cell phones or buildings. It's a very, very expensive promotion to sell a coffee table book.

  45. Better Yet . . . by tgeek · · Score: 1

    . . . let's put some Flash videos up there. At the right we're going, it's still gonna be around in a few billion years.

    As an added bonus: It should act as a warning sign to any visiting aliens - there is no intelligent life here, now move along.

    1. Re:Better Yet . . . by mrclisdue · · Score: 2

      . . . let's put some Flash videos up there

      Apparently, Adobe plans to drop support for Alien Flash in 3.5 billion years, so this suggestion won't fly....

      ...at the right we're going...

      You're voting for Romney...?

      cheers,

    2. Re:Better Yet . . . by tgeek · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but after the Flash player is gone in a few billion years, should an alien try to telepathically view our Flash videos, his brain(s) will overheat and shutdown.

      P.S. I knew I shouldn't have played hookie on the day they covered "proofreading" in my grade school grammar class . . . but I figured "When am I ever going to use THAT?" (apparently not today)

  46. it's already there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... and when they go to launch it into orbit in the most likely spot that it will be found there will be found one already in it's place.

  47. 5 billion? Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only will the Earth be gone long before then this thing will :
    have fallen out of orbit or been knocked out of orbit
    been eroded by solar winds and even if it were found
    be almost completely pointless as from what I have seen a considerable number of pictures are linked to human emotion.

    How about we do a better idea:
    Basic bridging language to help understand some words, numbers (more thought out than the current ones on the plates)
    Star map as always. Refer to major components of our galaxy, updated with far more data now. Make several slices in different axes so they get a better idea of where we are at that.
    Pictures of the world state. Show pictures of our society and landscapes (FAR OUT, not that silly close-up tree picture that was in there that looks like noise!)
    Show off some of our relationships with other animals and nature. (especially our trying to preserve it)
    Show even our attempts to communicate with other species on our planet (dolphin tank comes to mind, describe them in very basic terms)
    Show a condensed evolutionary tree, some of our knowledge of biology, different types of life we know about, current research and biology statistics of our species. (average life, living conditions from best to worst, our attempts to solve these problems as best as we can, average DNA, all the races from our ancestry till now)
    Show our materials knowledge, our physics knowledge and so on.
    Then have a more advanced bridging language that leads to them being able to understand at a very basic level some more advanced concepts of human society such as our culture and the like.

    And DON'T LIE TO THEM. Our society isn't nice. Far from it. Show them we have problems and our current solutions to improve.
    More than half the damn planet are in permanent depression because of crappy living conditions.
    Showing the best of humanity isn't about being pretentious twats, it is about showing them US as we are and what we are trying to do to fix things that our ancestors did wrong. Evolution as a species is better than some cloak of lies.

    Once you have that down, mass-print it on hundreds of plates.
    Launch it up in to space along with a seriously high-powered rail driver.
    Launch plates towards planets that may have life on them. (might want to wait for James Webb to get better looks at exoplanets)
    This gives a better chance of humans actually spreading some of them around, even if it is very limited.
    Wait several million years.
    ????
    Get blown out of the sky.

  48. Space piracy by englishstudent · · Score: 0

    It's not stealing if they weren't using it, right?

    --
    We'll never make it.......oh! we made it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWf3iJjqYCM&list=FL7kKrE4eTs17mQl7eyvJIOg
  49. How will they find it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no way this could possibly be distinguished from all the other garbage we leave in space. If it were ever discovered at all, it would probably be by smashing through some poor guy's window and explosively decompressing him.

  50. under a minute-improve your site: skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found it a quote, it seems to indicate MIT didn't use the machine, they designed it...
    not the same thing. below is an attributable quote from the project website

    creativetime.org/projects/the-last-pictures/the-pictures/

    " To create the artifact, Paglen micro-etched one hundred photographs selected to represent modern human history onto a silicon disc encased in a gold-plated shell, designed at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and Carleton College."

    issue is, I found that in under a minute- I found the website was creativetime.org/projects/the-last-pictures and I searched it (first result) for silicon as that seemed more technical than most 'web people' would be interested in at this level.. therefore my google box search read

    silicon site:creativetime.org/projects/the-last-pictures/

      found it, first result... I was also prepared to run down the project at MIT, and to search for press release sections of both websites for specific names.
    Stop taking a half hour and giving up, learn how to drill down searches better....

  51. Most of those pictures suck by Gothmolly · · Score: 2

    A picture of a flowering tree, with the sky as a background? There's no context - you only know its a tree because you know it's a tree. Grainy picture of predator drone footage? Too blurry to even know what it is... unless you know what it is. This needs to be far more universal, something like the Voyager record. The one decent picture was the one of the moon, although the moon won't be in the same place in 5B years.

    These pictures are from some Freshman Art 101 class, something a kid with an old SLR and some cheap B&W film might produce as some kind of "insightful" class project.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  52. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by Bengie · · Score: 1

    With a goal of 5b years, even the mountains you painted in would be whittled away be erosion. There is almost nothing you can do on the Earths surface that would last 5b years, if only because it would go back under the crust. Entire continents will be gone in that much time.

  53. Expedition to Earth by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Include a Donald Duck cartoon - that will fool them

    (Expedition to Earth by Arthur C Clarke)

  54. Huh? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    Gold Artifact To Orbit Earth In Hope of Alien Retrieval

    Why does Gold Artifact hope for alien retrieval? Is this some new religious meme?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  55. My god what has slashdot become by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Your fucking stupid. Your dog can't understand a picture because it has your IQ. Creatures like apes have already shown a capacity to regonize their fellow apes from pictures, so it is safe to assume that anyone with intelligence who sees in the visual spectrum can understand pictures.

    And as for aliens relying on other senses, they are space farers. We can use instruments to see with other senses, so would they.

    Geez, try again moron. There are problems communicating with a totally alien life form but they are not OVER whether they cannot see a picture but over whether it will mean the same thing to them.

    And the point about art, which is what this is, is that it doesn't have to.

    This is a "Here I am!" project. Whatever they make of it, it don't matter, just that they know, we were here.

    But a moron like you will never get such a thing.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:My god what has slashdot become by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aliens Discovering the Images:

      "They took the trouble to send images and they selected this nonsense? It's good the morons are extinct. Before we leave, eradicate those Terran cryostasis pods -- The last thing we need are fools from cloning more like-minded races."

    2. Re:My god what has slashdot become by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Greetings, I see you've managed to get your panties in a bind. Allow me to direct your attention to your inflammatory post!

      Your fucking stupid. Your dog can't understand a picture because it has your IQ.

      What about his fucking stupid? Since when do dogs have people level IQs?

      And as for aliens relying on other senses, they are space farers. We can use instruments to see with other senses, so would they.

      Theory and speculation represented as fact? You speak of fact when it's belief. A belief which you'd lambaste someone for if they referenced god in the same light. Hypocrite much? From your response it looks like he hit a nerve.

      But a moron like you will never get such a thing.

      See above, it's amusing you haven't managed to grasp language constructs like contractions and have the audacity to personally attack someone over valid points while referencing "aliens" of which there is no proof, much like that religion which you harp on. Part of what makes this site so great is contributions from the community, unlike your post which isn't constructive nor advances the discussion. Find your happy place and be respectful, you're better than this.

    3. Re:My god what has slashdot become by arth1 · · Score: 1

      And as for aliens relying on other senses, they are space farers. We can use instruments to see with other senses, so would they.

      I see a teaspoon is needed. Open up, please.
      Being able to sense what is there doesn't equate to an ability to abstract a 2D image into 3D. If their senses are true 3D, unlike ours[*], they will never have seen a 2D image. They can still have instruments for observing matter and energy, but their instruments will likely be 3D based too. If they encounter a 2D image, how would they know that it was supposed to mimic a projection done through a single-lens pinhole camera for a certain bandwidth range, i.e. an "eye"?

      You might as well ask give someone born blind a photo and expect them to scan it, examine the raw data in Braille and tell you what the photo was of, or give someone deaf a sound recording file and expect them to figure out that it's of a child crying.
      In both cases, the observer either won't spot the task required, or will have to rely on the work of others who have the required senses.

      Stop anthropomorphising potentially visiting aliens, or assume you know anything about them. That's as silly as having faith in a manlike god (except, of course, that aliens visiting us is much more likely than a manlike god, i.e. only extremely improbable and not downright absurd).

      [*]: We see in 2D with two eyes, and extrapolate 3D information from that. That doesn't mean that aliens do the same.

  56. Rickroll. by Westwood0720 · · Score: 1

    Seriously. Or Goatse.

  57. Seriously by bytesex · · Score: 1

    What vanity.

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  58. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

    Bollocks! We just need to leave a beacon on Mars that a future soldier will stumble upon and see telepathic images of our race. Also, it may be necessary to warn them of the impending doom of the galaxy. Also, we may need to build a space station and some big floating widgets that enable faster-than-light travel to other big floating widgets...

  59. Wrong Object/Wrong Place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A disc orbiting the earth could be pretty easy to miss. I think an three meter, rectangular, black monolith on the moon would be better. Bonus points if they can get it to play Thus Spoke Zarathustra at regular intervals.

    "Dude, why does this thing vibrate every six hours?"

    "I don't know, hold you're helmet to it. Maybe it makes a noise."

    "WTF? Why would anyone put a speaker on a rock with no atmosphere?"

    "Hubris?"

  60. Kazakhstan? by MatrixCubed · · Score: 1

    Wah wah wee wah!

  61. It's a fricking marketing scheme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I tried to see the pictures, but was offered a chance to buy something. So it's just someone selling what is most likely weird artist crap by coming up with a novel advertising scheme. I hope that it gets hit by some space dust, so that the aliens when they find it don't think we're a bunch of freaks and weirdos. (From the description, it sounds like at least some of it is from the current fashion season. It will look kind of out-of-date in 5B years).

  62. Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great! More space junk!

  63. What the hell? by MaWeiTao · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From the collection of photos shown on their website it would appear they were selected by an art student with an obnoxiously cynical view of humanity. The hold little meaning beyond this pervasive sense of negativity.

    Let's take stock:
    Before and after photos of melting glaciers
    Grainy photo waves crashing on a pier with a bunch of people watching
    Some random ship in what appears to be the Suez canal
    An approaching dust storm during what I think is the dust bowl
    Barely decipherable cave paintings
    A mine
    Some nonsensical photo of a huge auditorium with 7 tv screens depicting highway interchanges
    A waterspout
    A blurry photo taken by a drone (presumably pre strike)
    Random kids standing in water, most looking away from the camera
    A rather strange looking room that looks like something from colonial times

    I'm a human and I see no rhyme or reason in these photos beyond what I mentioned above. What the hell is an alien intelligence going to make of these? I think this is a neat concept, but that's a rather pathetic selection of photos.

  64. They're already here, underground. This is dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just goes to show how fucking ignorant everyone is. It's right in front of your fucking face.

  65. No color? by ryanmc1 · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else notice that all the pictures were in Black and White? Why no color? It makes everything look so gloomy and boring. We need to show these visitors the beauty of nature in it full color glory. Maybe they did this on purpose so that the visitors would think that we were too boring to take over.

    1. Re:No color? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      This is a joke, right?

      Please describe the difference between "red" and "blue" in a way that would be unambiguously understood by a blind person who doesn't speak any language in any language family that you speak, and who has grown up in a society of blind people whose language and culture has no reference to any of the concepts that group around "sight" or "light."

      Oh, I forgot - they're all polydactyls with seven digits on one hand, six on the second hand and three on the gripping hand.

      That is why they used black and white images, not colour.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  66. Re:Poor choices, but off by a few billion years to by rubycodez · · Score: 1

    that "lifetime" for a geostationary satellite means being kept in a useful position, that's another matter from an object that doesn't have to maintain ideal comm location

  67. Predator drone cam? by PPH · · Score: 1

    Because that will convince some alien race that we are worthy of further contact. Not.

    For all we know, the alien finding it will be named Mohammad al Arrakis. And he'll be pissed about our choice of targets.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  68. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    50,000 years is a lot easier than a few billion years, though.

  69. Five billion years ? No. by mbone · · Score: 1

    This will be attached to an Echostar satellite in a valuable orbit. Now, at "end-of-life" its orbit should be raised, but still, it will be be up there, at that point available for either junk or salvage. I would regard the prospects of this lasting 500 years as very dim, much less 5 billion years.

    I always regard these sorts of things (like the Voyager gold discs) as being much more likely to be picked up by future humans (or post-humans) than aliens anyway. From that standpoint, copies of mundane texts (like, say, the US Census, or some popular novels, or a history of the world) seem much more likely to be valuable than some photos of cave art or kids standing on a beach. (If civilization between now and then has not collapsed, they will know what's on the disc. If it has, then send details, not art, as the details are what tends to get lost.)

  70. Holes to Assholes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The answer became an eclectic mix of images from pre-historic cave paintings to a photo of a group of people taken by a predator drone."

    So the aliens know that we have ascended from caves only to become assholes. Great!

  71. But 5 billion years is not enough... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...for the copyright in the pictures to expire!

  72. Would it really last 5 billion years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given how much space junk is orbiting the earth, wouldn't the etched images be quickly (on a cosmological timescale) destroyed?

  73. Great, more space junk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop polluting space with junk!

  74. Aliens Love Gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aliens are like the leperchauns of outer space.
    They fuckin' love gold.

  75. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "encasement of pictures in a huge block of plexiglass, on Earth"

    Even if it were 20' tall it would likely be buried/overgrown in less than a 10,000 years, or destroyed by some idotic humans in less than a 1,000. Things on earth change in the blink of an eye (geologically speaking). Just look at the South American civilizations, they built large pyramids and stone cities less than 3,000 years ago it has taken significant resources and time to re-find them, and even with modern technology we are still finding more. If you magically made all of the humans on the planet disappear cities would look more like jungles/forests within a few decades, in a hundred years most structures would be collapsed, and after a thousand it would start to be difficult to find signs of human habitation. If your objective is to leave something that will last millions or billions of years about your only reasonable choice is off planet. An orbiting chunk of refined metals (or preferably several of them) is probably the easiest cheap solution, even if it is unlikely to succeed. If you wanted to ensure success you would pretty much have to build a number of building sized monuments made out of granite, marble or some other extremely durable, non reactive material on the moon or some other body with a very slow rate of geologic change.

  76. Re:Maybe "counterintuitive" doesn't apply to alien by strikethree · · Score: 1

    Your concerns would be valid if we were talking hundreds, thousands, possibly even millions of years later. Even millions of years is an order of magnitude below just 1 billion years, much less 3 or 5 billion. At 5 billion years, there will be no discoverable trace of mankind at all on Earth (unless we live that long in which case we do not need the disc). Tectonic movement, subduction, etc all say that everything that exists right now will disappear as if it had never existed. Granted, finding that little disc in an orbit around something the size of Earth is akin to finding a needle in a haystack... but at least the disc will still exist in 5 billion years rather than melted into its component atoms and molecules.

    --
    "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  77. Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are several things we can expect to have in common with *any*evolved intelligent life we will encounter, because the selective advantages they provide apply to any environment in which they would have evolved.

    That includes porn.

    1. Re:Yep by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

      There are several things we can expect to have in common with *any*evolved intelligent life we will encounter, because the selective advantages they provide apply to any environment in which they would have evolved.

      That includes porn.

      As a member of an advanced xenological monitoring and listening post team studying your world, I can attest that your Rule 34 is, indeed, universal. Right up to and including holo-stims of an anthropomorphic galaxy with disproportionately large ... equipment ... mounting and having its way with a galactic super-cluster.

  78. Are you a fan of Nietzsche? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He said, "Art is the proper task of life."

    This is just another form of art.

    Not everyone responds to existential crisis with an inclination to sit around and do nothing...including one of the most famous nihilists in history. Perhaps you still need to work on your egocentrism a bit?

  79. How about some clue as to what we're writing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is how Frank Drake conveyed it for Voyager -- very elegantly covering our basic mathematical and physical notation in two small pictures.
    http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/images/image003.gif
    http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/images/image004.gif
    Any space-faring civilization would be able to decipher that in an hour.

  80. Big question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let say Alien visited us 5 millions year from now - all they see is a DISC - how would t hey decode the disc and play it back ?
    does it comes with instruction to build the hardware to read the disc
    How does alien decode programming language
    How does alien build the machine - maybe they build a 3D printer? using what material?

    Wouldnt it be simpler to print like 10,000 photographs in non acid paper- put it in those lifetime plastic seal - coat it with some anti UV/Xray/radiation shield
    box it in a platium plated metal box - remove the air/vacum seal it and blasted into space?

  81. Aliens Are Already Among Us .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh man, Humans! So naive.

    We are already here with you. In our Human Bodies, as Alien Souls.
    We know what is happening. We have technology so far beyond yours, that we can record and access all history that has ever happened.
    No need to do these kind of silly primordial golden artifacts.

    Seriously. We are already here. You are just so caught up in world politics, TV -series, your own egos, money, bling bling, that most of you don't still have the capacity. But there are those Who Know and Who Are Connected. You will be very surprised when we come out! :)
    So much of your history and knowledge is based on Lies. But The Truth Shall Find it's way out.
    Namaste.

  82. By chance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well if by chance it is picked up by an alien race and we are still living then they will think we are far inferior. Did you see the tv's used to show the highway images? The interior of the dwelling with candles for lights?
    At least if they are aggressive maybe we will stand a fighting chance since they will still think we do cave drawings. The ol' bate and switch. Draw them in and steal there technology.

  83. pics or it didn't happedn by mestar · · Score: 1

    Does anybody know where you can see the actual pictures? My slide show ends with the dust storm,

  84. They won't be aliens then will they? by aybiss · · Score: 1

    So we're sure that the aliens use cartesian coordinates for pixels and three channels of light mixture that thankfully are at the same frequencies as what we consider visible?

    Sounds like any aliens who can view these photos won't have to look at them to know what we were like anyway.

    --
    It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
  85. Just too bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that they won't find it among all the waste, broken or never-functional sattelites, and debris...

  86. Idiotic by colonel+spalding · · Score: 1

    This is an idiotic waste. Am I to believe an alien race that can span the light years to get here will scoop an artifact from orbit and then go home and not explore the planet? Even assuming in 3 billion years all traces of civilization on the planet have vanished, some orbiting disk of photos will tell all?

    1. Re:Idiotic by vandamme · · Score: 1

      Has anybody looked to see if there's one up there already?

  87. Re:Poor choices, but off by a few billion years to by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    I find myself deeply suspicious about the implied duration of orbital stability too.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"