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Astronomers Search For Dyson Spheres of Alien Civilizations

Posted by Soulskill on from the scotty-might-be-trapped dept.

Hugh Pickens writes "An article by Ross Andersen makes note of Freeman Dyson's prediction in 1960 that every civilization in the Universe eventually runs out of energy on its home planet, a major hurdle in a civilization's evolution. Dyson argued that all those who leap over it do so in precisely the same way: they build a massive collector of starlight, a shell of solar panels to surround their home star. Last month astronomers began a two-year search for Dyson Spheres, a search that will span the Milky Way, along with millions of other galaxies. The search is funded by a sizable grant from the Templeton Foundation, a philanthropic organization that funds research on the 'big questions' that face humanity, questions relating to 'human purpose and ultimate reality.' Compared with SETI, a search for Dyson Spheres assumes that the larger the civilization, the more energy it uses and the more heat it re-radiates. If Dyson Spheres exist, they promise to give off a very particular kind of heat signature, a signature that we should be able to see through our infrared telescopes. 'A Dyson Sphere would appear very bright in the mid-infrared,' says project leader Jason Wright. 'Just like your body, which is invisible in the dark, but shines brightly in mid-infrared goggles.' A civilization that built a Dyson Sphere would have to go to great lengths to avoid detection, building massive radiators that give off heat so cool it would be undetectable, a solution that would involve building a sphere that was a hundred times larger than necessary. 'If a civilization wants to hide, it's certainly possible to hide,' says Wright, 'but it requires massive amounts of deliberate engineering across an entire civilization.'"

14 of 686 comments (clear)

  1. Flawed assumptions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dyson assumed that all alien civilizations are stupid enough to believe in infinite growth, much like humanity.

    I don't believe this. I think the most advanced aliens have probably realized that there isn't much point of growth after a certain threshold.

    1. Re:Flawed assumptions. by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It also assumes that there aren't any energy advancements that are so far out of our understanding right now that they wouldn't seem like magic if we possessed them. Our assumptions are limited by our current understanding. In the next thousand years we could see all kinds of advancements that render building a Dyson sphere completely unnecessary.

    2. Re:Flawed assumptions. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It also assumes that there aren't any energy advancements that are so far out of our understanding right now that they wouldn't seem like magic

      Which is a reasonable assumption. Advanced civilizations will certainly have more advanced technology, but basic laws of reality will still apply. There is no reason to believe that the second law of thermodynamics can be violated, and overwhelming evidence that it cannot.

    3. Re:Flawed assumptions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I recognize that humanity has overpopulated the earth

      What do you base that on? Humanity may have overpopulated Calcutta, or Sao Paulo.
      We haven't overpopulated Wyoming.

    4. Re:Flawed assumptions. by Bengie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As far as we can tell, no macro-level system can violate thermodynamics, so the postulate should hold true. There should be IR energy given off anywhere energy is consumed as IR is the end result of an system that is not 100% efficient.

    5. Re:Flawed assumptions. by rhsanborn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I've read my recent physics correctly, 95% of the energy in our universe is in a form we don't know much about (dark matter/energy). If a sufficiently advanced civilization could harness that, they are likely going to do something to target that, instead of star light.

    6. Re:Flawed assumptions. by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't believe this. I think the most advanced aliens have probably realized that there isn't much point of growth after a certain threshold.

      It's funny how these armchair physicists who got their education from bad science fiction are so adamant that we can't possibly know what magical technology we might invent that will get us around the laws of thermodynamics, so capturing starlight is crude and stupid and this project is obviously a waste of time.

      But boy do they sure know the motivations of future humanity, the path of technological and societal growth, and the psychology of hypothetical aliens, and that knowledge also tells them that this project is a waste of time.

    7. Re:Flawed assumptions. by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just ignore him, he's one of those frustrating, myopic people that thinks we are limited to the resources of the ball of mud on which we presently live.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    8. Re:Flawed assumptions. by maxwell+demon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The "power of prayer" goes not only against science, it even goes against true faith. If god is all-knowing and good, then he must know what is best for the people even without the people praying for it. If he needs to be told what to do, he's not all-knowing. If he does the good only if someone prays for it, he's not good. And if he does something which is not good because someone prays for it, he's even less good. Therefore we find that an all-knowing and good god cannot be influenced by prayers, and therefore the believe that prayers have objective effects (other than the normal psychological effects) shows a lack of faith.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    9. Re:Flawed assumptions. by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i can think of at least 1 scenario where 1+1=10

      Yes, but that's still 2.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  2. Let me predict.... by slashping · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They'll find nothing.

  3. obviously they don't unstand TIMECUBE by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Against Stupidity, even the gods themselves labor in vain.


    lets see how many mods perceive the relevance to the reference

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  4. Re:series of tubes by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course, this presumes that advanced civilizations will simply re-radiate the left-over thermal energy, it's entirely possible that they would have close to 100% efficient systems or have a economically sensible way of storing thermal energy to re-use at a later date.

    It also presumes that advanced civilizations would waste their time and resources building such a contraption, when, given the technology necessary to do so, it would be far easier to find another planet.

    The level of sophistication necessary to deploy such a thing would require a level of technology where Fusion is childs play. There would be no energy shortage.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  5. Re:The Templeton Foundation by gandhi_2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Nazis got us into space. The military industrial complex got us the internet. War gave us most of our trama medicine.

    But you take issue with this one, huh?

    --
    THL phish sticks