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Boeing Proposes Using Gas Clouds To Bring Down Orbital Debris

cylonlover writes "Boeing has filed a patent application for a method of disposing of dead satellites and other debris orbiting the earth by hitting them with a puff of gas. The method, which is still at the conceptual stage, is designed to slow down satellites, forcing them to re-enter the atmosphere without sending up more space junk that itself will need disposing of. The idea is to send a small satellite into orbit containing a gas generator. This generator can be a tank of cryogenic gas, such as xenon or krypton, or a device designed to vaporize a heavy metal or some relatively heavy elements like fluorine, chlorine, bromine, or iodine. This gas would be released as a cloud in the same orbit as the debris, but traveling in the opposite direction." Clever of them to patent this, since knock-off space-junk removal systems are in such high demand.

31 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. Let's just call it what it is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    A space fart!

    1. Re:Let's just call it what it is... by LifesABeach · · Score: 2

      I thought El Pollo Loco had a patent for just such, "events."

  2. This is not a bad patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's an apparently wholly new and unique method for doing something in the physical world. Why would it make them evil to patent that?

    1. Re:This is not a bad patent by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because if you patent stuff that makes sure that it is not used.

      Boeing is not a patent troll. They actually make stuff. The obvious customer for this is NASA and other space agencies, and Boeing is a contractor. If they have the patent, they are the obvious choice as the contractor.

      Consider the car and oil industries. They are reputed to have patented all sorts of things to stop them.

      Please don't use weasel words to make insinuations that you can't back up with evidence. Patents are public records. Can you point to a single case of this actually happening?

    2. Re:This is not a bad patent by rollingcalf · · Score: 2

      The evil would lie in how it's enforced.

      Unless they've already implemented it, it's possible that their solution doesn't work as specified in the patent. Then if somebody else comes along with a similar idea but different implementation (for example, maybe a different temperature or density of the gas) that actually works, Boeing can sue them.

      The patent system has degenerated into protecting the results rather than the specific implementations, so somebody can put some words on paper for something that doesn't work as specified, and then sue somebody else who later makes a working implementation that accomplishes the same goal.

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    3. Re:This is not a bad patent by NoKaOi · · Score: 2

      Because if you patent stuff that makes sure that it is not used.

      Boeing is not a patent troll. They actually make stuff. The obvious customer for this is NASA and other space agencies, and Boeing is a contractor. If they have the patent, they are the obvious choice as the contractor.

      It also has the advantage of preventing an actual patent troll from getting a patent on it first, and if Boeing spends tons of money on R&D to get the details right, then nobody can copy their solution and underbid them, so it protects Boeing's investment. This is exactly what patents are meant for. It seems everyone is so allergic to the idea of patents after all the patent troll stories we read, people forget that patents actually do have a purpose other than to make lawyers lots of money.

    4. Re:This is not a bad patent by bertok · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because it didn't require research or investment to come up with it, and hence doesn't warrant a temporary monopoly enforced by the government.

      Using diffuse gases to slow orbiting vehicles is common, it's called aerobraking. Doing it with artificially created puffs of gas isn't exactly a new or unique idea either. I guarantee you Boeing didn't wasn't the first to come up with it, they were just the first to patent it. They can get away with that, because there's no prior art -- not because it had been impossible for others to come up with it before -- but simply because there has been no need for it. No market = no prior art. Now that the problem is starting to get worse, there's going to be a market soon. Boeing is just being anti-competitive by rushing to patent obvious stuff that just didn't need to be used before.

      Patents are (theoretically) for protecting the fruits of expensive novel research, not for trivial, handwavy ideas that suddenly have a market. This is why we're all so pissed off with all the patents along the lines of "existing idea but now with computers", which are far too common. Those ideas would have been impossible decades ago not for a lack of research, but a lack of a market. Before ubiquitous computers, there was no profitable way to "add computers" to an existing method or process. It's not research that enabled these new patents, but changing market realities.

      Lets say Boeing starts actually developing these gas-based systems, but finds that the gas tank nozzle is clogged because of the cryogenic temperatures causing trace gases like CO2 freezing inside the valve and blocking it. Compared to cold-gas reaction control systems, their satellite may need a very slow gas release rate, and hence a narrow nozzle, so this could actually be a big problem. They may want a passive system to avoid the need for complex, heavy, and failure-prone active heating systems. Lets say one of their engineers develops a special curved shape for the nozzle that accelerates the expanding gases in such a way as to prevent frozen particles from adhering to the walls. This might require complex mathematics, extensive numerical simulations, and lots of engineering tests in vacuum chambers with expensive gases. The result would be trivial to copy, but had needed expensive research into a wholly new concept. That is something that is worthy of patent protection.

    5. Re:This is not a bad patent by khallow · · Score: 2

      Using diffuse gases to slow orbiting vehicles is common, it's called aerobraking.

      I gather Boeing isn't patenting aerobraking, but instead a novel way to deliver those gases. They also apparently have done research on designs for delivering such gases and for the effects of delivery.

      Lets say Boeing starts actually developing these gas-based systems, but finds that the gas tank nozzle is clogged because of the cryogenic temperatures causing trace gases like CO2 freezing inside the valve and blocking it.

      Let's not, since that is an easy problem to overcome, by removing the trace gases in exactly the way they're alleged to cause problems (that is, by freezing them out). A serious application would no doubt have further opportunity for patents.

  3. unintended consequences? by wierd_w · · Score: 2

    What about the increased amounts of persistent drag that these clouds will present to later satelite deployments? Spraying the gas does not mean it magically disappears after it has done its job. While inside the roche limit, the gas clouds will eventually (after thousands of years) fall back into the atmosphere, the cloud doesn't magically vanish after being sprayed, and widespread use of the technology would make it radically difficult to orbit new satelites.

    If used outside the roche limit, the clouds become persistent!

    I don't think there is much debris needing deorbited outside the roche, but with politicians and corporations at the helm, you can't be too careful.

    1. Re:unintended consequences? by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Informative

      If the gas is sprayed at less-than-orbital velocities, it'd just fall to Earth almost immediately. Boeing in fact addresses that:

      8. The method of claim 1, wherein the cloud is created at a density and temperature to dissipate after creation and fall into the atmosphere.

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    2. Re:unintended consequences? by Baloroth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      According to the patent application, "within second" for extremely LEO (100 km) and "tens of second" for slightly higher orbits (~400km). It'll depend on the exact application, but the proposal makes it sound like they intend the gas to be "stationary" relative to the Earth, so it'll be in free fall, basically. Other situations they propose put it at ~1km/s, where it will de-orbit rather quickly.

      It is very very unlikely to cause issues. After all, we already spray gases around in orbit, it's the single method we have of propulsion, and I've never actually seen a single person worry that it will create long-term problems (although maybe it could, I very much doubt it).

      Besides, it's a lot easier to deal with transient gas clouds slowing orbits than it is with ramming into shards of metal at 10km/s or more. Shards of metal with explosives in it, in (rare) cases of unburnt propellant.

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  4. Re:What about the non-junk? by djlemma · · Score: 2
    From TFA:

    The cloud wouldn't last very long, but long enough to hit the debris. By the time it hit, the gas would have expanded until it was almost a vacuum, so it wouldn't damage the debris. In fact, an astronaut caught in such a cloud probably wouldn't even notice it.

  5. Re:What about the non-junk? by dragon-file · · Score: 2

    How do they propose to keep the non-junk from being de-orbited by the same gas? (I'm too lazy to read TFA.)

    Physics.

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  6. This is what patents are for... by Nemyst · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please do correct me if I am wrong, but this reads like a patent application that contains a novel, concrete implementation of an idea that isn't necessarily obvious to one skilled in the art. That is what patents are supposed to protect, and I have to say I have no problem with that.

    It's perhaps the first /. post in a long time that contains a patent that respects both the spirit and the letter of what a patent is supposed to be. It also sounds fairly ingenious and very interesting considering the possibilities, so props to Boeing.

  7. and your chosen subject is the bloody obvious... by daq+man · · Score: 2

    This is such an obvious idea that it isn't right that it should be patentable. There are only a few ways of slowing an orbiting object down so that it de-orbits. The way nature does it is by putting gas in the way, called the atmosphere.

  8. Enough with the over-broad claims guys by jmerlin · · Score: 2, Informative

    4. The method of claim 1, wherein the cloud is relatively static and collides with orbital debris and slows orbital motion of the debris.

    So basically we're claiming to patent inelastic collisions? So pretty much ANYTHING bringing something out of orbit by physically altering its orbit (which is almost always the result of an inelastic collision) will violate this claim. Broad much?

    5. The method of claim 1, wherein the cloud travels in a countering trajectory to the space debris.

    So basically we're claiming to patent a collision between two bodies traveling in opposing trajectories? .. seriously? Yeah, I was totally planning on knocking debris out of space by throwing rocks at it in the same direction it's moving!

    6. The method of claim 1, wherein the cloud altitude is between 100 km and 400 km.

    So basically we're claiming to patent clouds between 100 and 400 km above Earth's surface? Because someone can avoid violating this by.. you know.. ignoring the debris between 100km and 400km. Right?

    7. The method of claim 1, wherein different cleanup zones about Earth are targeted, and a cloud is formed at each zone.

    So basically we're claiming to patent clouds formed in different target zones? Is it possible to be any more vague?

    8. The method of claim 1, wherein the cloud is created at a density and temperature to dissipate after creation and fall into the atmosphere.

    So your projectile that will collide with the debris will fall back into the atmosphere. So would just about any other projectile-based solution. It'd be pretty damn hard to hit an orbiting object with another object with enough velocity to knock the orbiting object into the atmosphere and ricochet the projectile out of orbit in excess of escape velocity.

    9. The method of claim 1, wherein the cloud is created to have a shape of one of a sphere and a hemisphere.

    So basically we're claiming to patent spheres and hemispheres of gasses. Looks like a competitor will need to use rectangles, because this is the rounded-corners patent of gas clouds.

    But seriously. C'mon.

    1. Re:Enough with the over-broad claims guys by noahwh · · Score: 2

      You're ignoring where it says 'The method of claim 1, wherein' in each of those sentences.

      1. A method for removing space debris having a relatively low ballistic coefficient, the method comprising hastening orbital decay of the debris by creating a transient gaseous cloud at an altitude of at least 100 km above Earth, the cloud having a density sufficient to slow the debris so the debris falls into Earth's atmosphere.

      None of those claims are general patents on physical laws. They are all specific to a satellite that puffs clouds of gas at space debris.

    2. Re:Enough with the over-broad claims guys by chinton · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course he's ignoring segments of the claims... You can't produce breathless hyperbole if you include all the facts.

    3. Re:Enough with the over-broad claims guys by jmerlin · · Score: 2

      I'm not ignoring it. These claims are so generic that anyone who was creating any similar system (in a non-infringing manner) would necessarily be required by the laws of physics to violate them, making the patent so broad that competitive innovation is literally impossible. It would be much like a car manufacturer (say, for sake of argument, the first ever) patenting a device that used a motor connected to a drive shaft in turn connected to 4 wheels which by virtue of friction propel the device forward. It's very difficult to create a reasonably usable machine that propels itself without the use of friction, especially with the technology available in the early 1900s, which means every invention that tries to build on this or improve on it will necessarily violate those claims.

      What I'm saying is that it is nonsensical to allow claims that include almost every conceivable implementation of an idea to be patented. If these claims are obviously so broad, they should be struck and the patent should be considered without such claims. When we consider a violation of a patent, no jury nor technically minded person is going to care about these claims because EVERYTHING necessarily violates them, and will instead consider the other ones that are actually specific enough to make a determination of infringement. These claims are pointless. They might as well have put in there a claim that this device is made out of matter.

  9. Re:And what do you do with... by icebike · · Score: 2

    Slowing debris down in the manner you have described is going to be very fuel intensive if you expect this disposable satellite to speed up to catch another piece of debris and slow down, rinse and repeat. I assume you aren't proposing disposable satellites for each piece of space debris.

    That's what I was thinking.
    Just releasing the gas in the path of the target satellite would slow down or speed up your vehicle enough to require course corrections. If you were to have enough gas on board to do two simultaneous releases on opposite sides of the vehicle you might be able to mitigate this.

    But simply getting to the proper place for EACH of the thousands of sats and space junk targets would take a lot of maneuvering.

    This seems overly complex and subtle. Its main advantage seems to be that it leaves no debris in orbit.

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  10. Re:And what do you do with... by ddd0004 · · Score: 2

    That's the equivalent of having one trash truck for every house and then just driving it into the landfill instead of dumping it. Good plan.

  11. Re:What about the non-junk? by taiwanjohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This reminds me of another method using light instead of gas, which was described at a recent space conference. The idea was to pulse laser light toward the west (since most space debris is traveling predominantly eastward), and over time the photons alone could provide enough delta-v to nudge things out of orbit more quickly. For the big stuff they have other plans in mind, such as electrostatic tethers and micro-rockets. But for little stuff, the light pulse would be a cost-effective "shotgun" approach to deal with the cloud of crap that's too small to track.

    Sorry I can't find a link at the moment. I saw it a few months ago on YouTube from either NewSpace or SpaceUp, or ISDC or one of the other conferences in the last year or two.

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  12. Re:Prior Art by t4ng* · · Score: 2

    Found an article referencing the water spray idea.

  13. Re:And what do you do with... by admdrew · · Score: 3, Informative

    Who said anything about BIG.

    Boeing:

    the cloud has a size of 50 km to 500 km, a mass of 1,000 kg to 10,000 kg

  14. Re:Sounds like one man's debris... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, probably not. That's the beauty of this. Shooting gas at a satellite might cause some orbit degradation, but it'd be tough to do something really nasty to it. This only works against small pieces of debris, much smaller than any satellite. Which has, incidentally, always been the most worrying aspect of orbital debris.

  15. Re:What about the non-junk? by icebike · · Score: 2

    Actually, for those sats that share orbits, this would be a problem, which is why they use a gas that would disperse in short order.

    Presumably any sats that were not targets, but still close enough to the gas cloud, would eventually need a slight nudge to correct their orbit, but then that kind of orbit correction happens occasionally anyway. (One definition of a dead satellite is one that has no maneuvering fuel left to do station keeping.). So if your satellite is still operational it probably would not be affected by the gas.

    This ability to affect a large area actually works in your favor. You can deorbit entire debris fields with this technique.
    However, some space junk deorbited this way could drift into conflict with low earth orbit satellites, like weather sats and GPS sats. So some planning would be necessary. And since the gas is designed to ever so slowly deorbit the junk, your ability to control this is minimal at best, because it could take years.

    I'm glad Boeing patented this because they actually have the ability to deliver, whereas some patent troll could just use it to extract money.
    I'd be happier if they just built one and and demonstrated it, and then offered it for sale. Even happier if they just declared the patent free to the world.

     

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  16. Re:And what do you do with... by Russ1642 · · Score: 2

    You enter higher or lower orbits by speeding up or slowing down. If you fire at right angles to your direction of travel you increase your velocity and end up in non-circular orbits.

  17. Re:What about the non-junk? by icebike · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Clearly the customers here are Governments.
    One of the first orbits to be cleared would probably be around the ISS.

    John Campbell of Iridium spoke at a June 2007 forum discussing the difficulty of handling all the notifications they were getting regarding close approaches, which numbered 400 per week (for approaches within 5 km) for the entire Iridium constellation. He estimated the risk of collision per conjunction as one in 50 million. Yet in 2009, less than two years after he made his prediction, his company lost Iridium 33 to a collision.
    To date, there have been eight known high-speed collisions in all, most of which were only noticed well after the fact.

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  18. Re:What about the non-junk? by Americano · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here's a quick summary of the procedure you're talking about: http://www.technologyreview.com/view/423302/nasa-studies-laser-for-removing-space-junk/

    Initially, they were thinking of ablating the surface of the junk with the laser, but turns out you need a hell of a lot of power to do that, so it wouldn't be very economical. More recent calculations suggest exposure to a ~5kW laser might be enough to decay the orbit enough to bring it back into the atmosphere where it'll burn up, and they estimate that a device such as this, big enough to handle 5-10 objects a day, could be put together for a few million dollars.

  19. Re:And what do you do with... by Dishevel · · Score: 2

    Not only that, but you are sending up a unit to bring down a piece of space debris.
    So are you launching an object on top of a rocket into space. Then you have to blow the aerodynamic covers off while in orbit.
    At that point the craft can latch on to one of the 2 covers now in orbit and bring it back down.

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  20. Re:What about the non-junk? by cas2000 · · Score: 2

    No, this is not a tragedy of the commons, this is yet another example of externalising expenses - same as dumping toxic shit into a river or burning coal to generate electricity.

    Unless there's a bill to pay or laws to prohibit it, you can get away with pretending that the expense of managing and disposing of your waste doesn't exist (and, magically, for YOU it doesn't exist).

    You get the benefit of your waste-producing activity, but everyone else has to pay for it.

    The "Tragedy of the Commons" is a popular meme for libertarian types who want everything to be owned (preferably by them so they can extract monopoly rents from the previously public resource)...and because TTotC is a such a popular and self-serving meme they are selectively blind to the thousands upon thousands of examples of privately-owned resources which are completely trashed because their only value to their owner is in the maximum extraction of profit in the shortest time (strip mining, toxic or radioactive tailings dams, clear-fell logging for example) or as a dumping ground for waste from some other activity.

    But a commons doesn't have to be owned to be managed successfully, it just has to be regulated - so that, e.g, one private company can't take a giant dump in everyone else's favourite picnic spot. Regulation, however, is anathema to libertarian types. They feel that if they want to lay a turd on someone else's picnic blanket, either directly or a few miles upstream, then they should be able to do so - "Freedom!"