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The Case That Apple Should Buy Nokia

Hugh Pickens writes "Nokia has seen better days. The Finnish phone maker continues to struggle to gain traction in a marketplace dominated by Apple and Android, and its new flagship device, the Windows-powered Lumia 920, failed to impress investors when it was announced last month, subsequently causing the company's stock to dive. Now Tristan Louis argues that there are four good reasons Apple should dig into its deep pockets and buy Nokia. First Nokia has really powerful mapping technology. Apple Maps isn't very good, and Apple has been feeling the heat from a critical tech press but Nokia has been doing maps 'for a long time now, and they a have access to even more data than Google.' Next, Nokia has a treasure chest of patents and as Apple's recent smackdown of Samsung proves, the future of the mobile space 'will be dictated by the availability and ownership of patents.' Nokia's exhaustive portfolio of patents might be worth as much as $6 billion to $10 billion, a drop in the bucket from Apple's $100 billion war chest. Nokia could also help with TV. If Apple truly wants to dominate the TV arena, it'll have to beam shows and movies to iPhones or iPads in real time, and that's a field Nokia has some expertise in. Finally Microsoft has a lot riding on the release of Windows Phone 8, and Nokia is its primary launch partner. Buying Nokia would 'knock Microsoft on its heels,' says Forbes' Upbin."

30 of 286 comments (clear)

  1. NOOOOOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Besides, isn't Nokia Microsoft's bitch?

    1. Re:NOOOOOO by gr8_phk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep, the author doesn't investigate what agreements are in place between Nokia and MS. That could make an Apple purchase a poor choice (or not). This looks like some dude saw last weeks article about Nokias mapping efforts and decided he thinks Apple should buy them. Unfortunately he's got an audience.

    2. Re:NOOOOOO by david.emery · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mod parent up insightful. This is a real concern and has both benefits and risks. Look at how Google is doing with Motorola, they've bought both the patents and the associated lawsuits.

    3. Re:NOOOOOO by bondsbw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If anyone is going to buy Nokia, it makes sense for Microsoft to do so. It could become Microsoft's chief mobile hardware partner, and perhaps could offer something in the Xbox arena. The result would be a partnership similar to Google and Motorola.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    4. Re:NOOOOOO by MrDoh! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Totally. It's only a matter of time before the remnants of Nokia become a Microsoft Department, with the transfer of patents that was the only thing MS wanted from the start. Would make a lot of sense for Apple to grab them, but there's just no way it'll happen with Elop prepping, and if Apple did eventually buy it, it'd be a husk of a company with the patents/IP already long gone. Now, a partnership/agreement to cross license for 3 years perhaps, finally wipe out Android through sustained heavy lawsuit fire? That'd make sense. But Apple has learned too well, and after finishing off Android, will be waiting for the knife in the back from Microsoft. No, it can't work, it's too messed up, and apart from the IP, there's not a lot worth buying.

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
    5. Re:NOOOOOO by korgitser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They already have made Nokia their bitch, and that only cost them one incompetent manager.
      Remember Elop, the Troyan Horse running Nokia? He is handling all the good pieces to Microsoft on a silver plate for free, while scrapping everything not relevant to the Brave New Windows Smartphone Future(TM). Like Nokia's immensely profitable presence in the third world - Nokias featurephones were doing the smartphone revolution everywhere but the West. They had a headstart and were pretty much guaranteed to sell billions, until Elop came around and said 'does not run Windows, scrap it'.
      So, they already have what they want, and are already scuttling the rest, so why would they want to waste more money on it?

      --
      FCKGW 09F9 42
    6. Re:NOOOOOO by samkass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If anyone is going to buy Nokia, it makes sense for Microsoft to do so. It could become Microsoft's chief mobile hardware partner, and perhaps could offer something in the Xbox arena. The result would be a partnership similar to Google and Motorola.

      Yeah, but Nokia's a publicly traded company. They're valued at about $10B... pocket change for Apple. And they have the best mapping data in the world... Apple has arguably lost more than $10B in valuation for not having such data.

      Apple could buy Nokia, keep the mapping and patents, divest the mobile manufacturing to Microsoft and come out way ahead.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    7. Re:NOOOOOO by tom17 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One phone & one tablet?

      iPad2, iPad3, iPad Mini (Soon), iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone5

      I count that as 5, soon to be 6.

  2. These companies are going opposite directions by concealment · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apple: it must look good, work out of the box, and be very simple so that even a hipster in skinny jeans and Ray-Bans can do it.

    Nokia: it must be solid as a rock, work for 10,000 years, and the interface must exist. If it is convenient, that is a bonus, but not important.

    These companies are opposites. Merging them together will just get us stylized Nokias that lack the legendary bulletproof Nokia quality.

    1. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by Vintermann · · Score: 3, Informative

      I wonder why Nokia, of all companies, got this reputation for solidity. Most of their phones were not very solid.

      There is consumer legislation in Norway that electronic devices "of a long-term nature" should function for at least five years. Nokia fought this tooth and claw, and insisted it was completely unreasonable for mobile phones.

      Granted, many (not all) of the pre-touch phones were a lot more robust than most touch phones. And very many of the previous generation were in fact Nokias.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    2. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The back of their phones is made out of glass, I repeat, the back of their phones is made out of glass.

    3. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nokia: it must be solid as a rock, work for 10,000 years, and the interface must exist. If it is convenient, that is a bonus, but not important.

      This was the old way; you are now out of date. Nokia has sold all of it's old factories (e.g Salo) where quality ruled. It is no longer using the Finnish design guys who were insisting on Scandinavian quality. It's now designed in the US and built in China by Foxconn (and that's the top end phones).

      There is remarkably little of Nokia which is worth salvaging. You might sell off their Telecomms division to a big IT company. Apple would then get the mapping and the patents. The low end phones are still high quality and would go off well to Tata or some equivalent. After that there's nothing left. This wouldn't be a "merger"; much more a purchase followed by a total break up. A case like that is going to have no influence whatsoever on Apple's internal culture.

    4. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Glass will shatter, but it is harder than plastic. All materials come with a tradeoff.

      I think the material debate is kind of absurd anyway, since hardly anyone goes caseless. At this point, they really should just sell sturdy, ugly, phone "guts" and let any company sell cases for it.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Being harder isn't always the best thing for a material.
      Materials that allow for a certain amount of flex can absorb impacts better than something that is just hard and inflexible.

      As for phone cases, most people i know either have NO case [I've only had one case myself and that was for carrying convenience when I had to have two phones for a few months] or have thin 'cover' style cases that only emphasize protecting the phone from other things in their pockets.

    6. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by bonehead · · Score: 4, Informative

      since hardly anyone goes caseless.

      How do you figure that? I very rarely see phones of any type in cases.

    7. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by jandrese · · Score: 3, Informative

      Putting a case on an iPhone also reverses any gains Apple has made in keeping the phone thin. If you're willing to pay a premium for a phone that is 1.7mm thinner, it doesn't seem to make sense to toss a 3mm thick cover on it.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    8. Re:These companies are going opposite directions by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, it's a tool - but it's a broken tool when it hits tile or concrete. Practically the whole first floor of my home is tile, and it eats smartphone screens (2 so far). Hardwood or carpet aren't so bad... I don't even blink when I drop a phone at work on the carpet.

      I've yet to lose a screen since using the cheap rubbery-ish silicony case. It does nothing for scratches, since all sorts of odd grit gets in between the case and the phone and rubs. And of course, it doesn't protect the face of the screen. My wife has one of those Otter cases, but she works in a hospital and needs to sanitize it.

      I think if you pay attention, you'll see lots of cases - especially the kind that clip on to a belt holster. Women all seem to have them - I think purses must be something like garbage disposals.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  3. Pretty big drop by jbmartin6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know I am being picayune, but 10% is not a drop in the bucket. Not even in the colloquial sense. Unless it is a teeny tiny bucket that only holds 10 drops.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  4. Would never be approved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not in the US, and especially not in the EU.

    Too many anti-trust issues.

  5. "...knock Microsoft on it's heels..." = bad tactic by ip_freely_2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft is *already* on it's heels. Apple is worth far more than Microsoft and appears to have a better strategy going forward. Taking any opportunity to knock Microsoft down makes no business sense and distracts from their mission.

  6. Oh Great, Another One of These Stories by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This isn't news, this is Bruce Upbin, Forbes Staff "reporting" on some random article by another journalist named Tristan Louis who lists his credentials as:

    Tristan Louis is an Internet veteran, having worked in the Internet industry since 1993. Throughout the years, Mr. Louis has been known as the founder of Internet.com, a co-founder of Earthweb's developer.com, the interim CTO for Boo.com, and has held many other roles at start-ups during the first dotcom boom.

    And this guy is commenting on why Apple should buy Nokia? Really? That's "news" to us? It's basically a list of half baked points. I know how this works, I've seen it in my uncle. He used to play sports in high school and when we watch a Vikings game he is just exasperated at how terrible the coaches are. Why, if he was in that game, he'd know exactly what plays to call and he could probably even be the quarterback and throw this football clear over them mountains.

    The piece fails to explain why Apple shouldn't merely license Nokia's map services instead of kicking $10 billion out for it (oh, by the way, 10% of your total liquid assets is not a "drop in the bucket"). It fails to analyze many of the other assets of Nokia (oh, come on, like Apple would continue making Nokia's candy bar phones) and just assumes Apple would like to pay for all that stuff. It doesn't consider all the EU approvals that Apple would need and he ends this list with Apple doing "a double-reverse with a flip" which sounds a lot like the plays my uncle would call in a professional football game.

    In short, build your own $100 billion dollar empire and then you can throw it away yourself. Until then, I don't think this shallow "analysis" of two phone makers was ever worth my time. It could at least be comprehensive and delve into the financials of the deal and possible repercussions (like yet another little guy dying and the market becoming more inbred with less options).

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Oh Great, Another One of These Stories by Revotron · · Score: 5, Funny

      Tristan Louis is an Internet veteran, having worked in the Internet industry since 1993. Throughout the years, Mr. Louis has been known as the founder of Internet.com, a co-founder of Earthweb's developer.com, the interim CTO for Boo.com, and has held many other roles at start-ups during the first dotcom boom.

      But, he's an Internet veteran! He's set up over five and a half websites! They don't just let every Tom, Dick, and Harry set up a website these days.

      Question. Does his laundry list of titles include "Social Media Entrepreneur"? Because then we'll know he's the real deal.

  7. Sadly for Nokia, Not Necessary. by glassKarma · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In short, Apple doesn't need Nokia. Nokia has reinvented itself many times since it made shoes and tires, and it's WELL OVERDUE to do that again. The problem is cell phones are effectively all it does, and it's tragically lacking innovation there (FWIW, I worked for Nokia, and made detailed suggestions over ten years ago about more storage, touch screens, and more battery life, and there was repeated immediate dismissal over how impossible it would be). The sad part is Nokia went to Microsoft rather than it's dedicated developers to find that innovation. Microsoft will even help kill Nokia partly because Nokia doesn't seem to know what to do, and mostly because they forgot Balmer doesn't care about Nokia any more than it can work as a stepping stone for Microsoft to "get back on top." Yes, buying Nokia would give Microsoft one less out for Windows, but sadly for Nokia (and to be fair, IMNSHO) Microsoft's overwhelming priority is to do its own work for Windows 8 after getting Nokia to abandoning [small] teams of [highly] devoted Symbian developers as part of the fallout in committing to The Balmer; proof.

  8. Fantasyland by puddingebola · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think I agree with the commentor on the Forbes site who put this squarely in the realm of fantasyland. Microsoft has already given Nokia $2 billion and Elop seems committed to Microsoft's camp. Aren't there other Maps providers on the internet that Apple could potentially partner with? Mapquest? Somebody?

  9. Re:"...knock Microsoft on it's heels..." = bad tac by Alkonaut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd rather have microsofts revenue than apples, even if apples is larger. Reason? Apples revenue comes from consumer electronics. That can change overnight if Apple just blows it once with a new release. Microsoft has a huge corporate revenue stream as well as a lot more lock-in from software. To put it another way: microsoft can release vista fiv times over without losing much revenue to e.g. Mac OS. If the iPhone6 is crap and samsung's offering is brilliant then Apple is in trouble. Apple have to deliver continuously, MS not so much.

  10. Fix Maps, only? by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 4, Informative

    why-apple-should-buy-nokia-to-fix-their-mapping-disaster

    Maps is a disaster. But what about the other iOS6 problems (some here). What about the recent Apple lack of innovation, and the reported lack of staff motivation? As a owner of 2 Macs, 2 iPhones and an iPad, I'm just worrying. During the past year, new devices are mere incremental updates, and nothing revolutionary came from the software dept (OSes and applications). And the general update trend slowed down, compared to 2 years ago. This appears to me as a management problem.
    To be fair, Tim Cook has to be vigilant - Apple sells a lot thanks to the nice and innovative ergonomics and design inertia coming from the iPhone 3~4 era. Taking a different direction would definitely mark that new era as the real beginning of the Cook epoch - and at the same time end the Jobs one forever. And who knows what would be the outcome of that.
    In my opinion, Tim Cook will keep sticking to the Jobs background for a while - maybe 2 years - while Apple staff will feel more and more the gap between what image Cook wants to show to the world (ie Jobs-like) and the day-to-day internal management. Updates slowness, substantial mistakes and bugs will increase over time, while disheartened (and good) people will leave the company. It will be a hard time for Cook, having to choose between working (hard) to maintain that fading image from the past, or cope with a dramatically different management requirement.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:Fix Maps, only? by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How much innovation do you want on a per-release basis? I think they did a lot -- newer, larger screen, thinner design, completely new interface port (with zero adapters available until some started shipping YESTERDAY), completely new mapping system.

      That's a lot of "innovation" even if it doesn't necessarily translate into new, glitzy things you want or substantial, obvious changes. An MMC slot would have been nice, but Apple really doesn't/hasn't supported external storage as a matter of policy/design philosophy. It's purposeful, not because they don't know how.

      And they have to balance substantial changes against consumer desire -- if the 4/4S was very popular, it's a reach to assume that Apple could sell a radically different physical device or one with some other radical change.

      IMHO, smartphones generally are kind of running out of obvious, low-hanging fruit without some substantial leaps technology and functionality wise. The thing I'm waiting for is a wireless (NOT 802.11) display protocol that enables touch functionality on a larger, external display.

    2. Re:Fix Maps, only? by wzinc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple's maps are great; there is no disaster. It's all media hype, b/c some neighborhood names in San Francisco were not the most popular names. I just took a 1,500 mile trip, and Apple's maps were incredible. "Siri, find me directions to X." Done.

    3. Re:Fix Maps, only? by BlueStraggler · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh dear, Slashdot, look what you've done. You moderated the only nice comment in the entire thread as "Troll". Hundreds and hundreds of comments talking about mapping "disasters", fucking over Microsoft, patent trolling, ass-fucking Google, the unspeakable incompetence of Tim Cook, the creepy toadyism of Elop, and other bits of nasty, bitter, unfocused nerd rage.

      And then some guy comes along and says "you know, those apple maps are pretty good, if you, like, actually use them", which may be the only bit of actual first-hand knowledge offered in the entire thread.

      TROLL! TROLL! BURN HIM!

  11. Re:One more thing... by tgd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually HTC is making the "signature" WP8 devices, not Nokia.

    You should know better than to bring facts to a Slashdot Microsoft-bashing!