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Ask Slashdot: Video Monitors For Areas That Are Off the Grid?

An anonymous reader writes "I have a cottage at the end of a long dirt road, no electricity nor internet, and recently some (insert expletive here) wads are using the area as a trash dump: countertops, sofas, metal scraps, tvs — all the stuff they don't want to pay to dump at the landfill. I can't block the road because it's a fire access. But I would really like to have a way to catch who is doing this. Are there any a) waterproof, b) self-contained, c) self-powered, and (ideally) d) inexpensive video-recording units out there? Are there any other creative ways to get the guys? I was thinking of something like a device that will cycle, so that the last week of video is recorded. It could take photos or video, and as long as it's small enough that I could camouflage it well, I suspect I'd be able to figure this out soon. And any idea of what my legal rights are to videotape or record?" Hunters have been doing this for years (with film, and now digital) to figure out prey patterns with cameras that are built for concealment; what else would you recommend?

34 of 340 comments (clear)

  1. Use a Drone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You know you could ask the Govt if their drones are for rent...they have night vision, missiles and everything.

    1. Re:Use a Drone by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why not get creative and just use old cell phones.
      People are just tossing these things out. they have a good battery and some you can actually program. plus send data back to your base unit wirelessly.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. Deer cams by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Put up the IR deer cams. Hide them because they will steal them.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Deer cams by Nethead · · Score: 4, Informative

      What I was going to say. trailmasters.com Did webpage work for them back in '97.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    2. Re:Deer cams by axehind · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What this guy says. Use hunting/trail cameras. They attach to trees or other things and they only activate on movement. They can be stolen but most can be attached and locked nowadays.

    3. Re:Deer cams by boristdog · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes. Deer/wildlife cameras are what I would recommend. You can get them for $59 - $200. They take pretty good pictures and a set of batteries lasts a couple months.

    4. Re:Deer cams by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Informative

      nope, well it depends on what you call "affordable" $5500.00 is affordable to some people.

      But there is a self contained security camera called "silent witness" that lets you place them high up in a tree or on the roof of the cottage. just add a 12AH gel cell battery and a 20 watt solar panel and it will record to the internal SD card for over a month.

      http://christy-ind.com/silent_witness/swc40r.php

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Deer cams by Scutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Put up the IR deer cams. Hide them because they will steal them.

      I've had tremendous success by putting them inside bird houses. No one steals birdhouses, or even thinks twice when they see one 15 feet up a tree.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    6. Re:Deer cams by Copperhamster · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is only one tiny problem that you might run into, and it should be ok if you stick a couple in trees... those deer cams usually have a red light on them, if people are looking they can be found. However, they'd have to look.

      Also, something to check for, in my state it's illegal to record other people on your property 'without consent of at least one party involved in the recording'. Consent is however assumed if signage is posted. (I can record at my door without a sign, because I'm recording myself and others, I'm consenting. I can't just do surveilance without posting a sign. The rules are of course, byzantine.)

    7. Re:Deer cams by jasper160 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The newer ones have dropped the light. Check Cabela's, Gander Mountain, or Sportsman's Warehouse. And just using the Google with: deer cameras cell phones, this popped up http://www.trailcampro.com/howtocatchathief.aspx. No lights.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished.
    8. Re:Deer cams by samkass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or go the opposite route... buy a bunch of empty "surveillance camera" big white cases and install them prominently near a big "No Dumping" sign. Probably a lot cheaper.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    9. Re:Deer cams by Copperhamster · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In the US, a general piece of advice given to people who are arming themselves for self defense; When using lethal force (a gun), use it with intent to kill, not wound or disable. Not only is 'only wounding' hard, but it you are less likely to lose or even be hit with a wrongful death civil suite than a personal injury suite. One of my online buddies shotgunned three armed bad guys invading his home, killing two, the only criminal charges were misdemeanor possession of a loaded firearm (illegal, even in his own house, in his jurisdiction) which he got 3 months probation for after pleading no contest. One of the guy's families sued him for wrongful death, and it was dismissed with predjudice the first day. The surviving bad guy successfully sued him for various things (had two fingers amputated because the blast hit him in his gun hand as he was firing at my friend.), however it was overturned on appeal. But his defense has cost him roughly $100k. (and they are appealing the appeal). This is a person who is currently service a life sentence for 2 felony murders (he gets saddled with the guild of his two buddies deaths) and on trial for 6 more home invasions that had happened in the prior month.

    10. Re:Deer cams by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More to the point. Why not just post the signs all over and skip the cameras.
      If it works then you save money. If not then you can put in the cameras.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    11. Re:Deer cams by gizmonic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here's what I've never understood. If the thief is going to sue for injury, why not plead no contest in court, allow the judge to make the ruling for the thief, and then turn around and immediately sue him for trespassing, for the total amount the thief won, since his trespassing caused those actual damages? Even better would be to file for treble damages, since in trespassing, the thief was willfully negligent in his actions. The instant I owe any money for something you did while illegally on my property, I don't see how that doesn't immediately become actionable against you as damages for trespassing. IANAL, of course, so if any out there are, I'd love an explanation as to why this isn't possible. (At least, I am assuming it isn't, as I've never seen it done.)

      --
      WWJD?
      JWRTFM!
    12. Re:Deer cams by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ornithological sex-tapes. Duh.

    13. Re:Deer cams by adolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is sad to see the discussion take such a tangent about the way to most-successfully shoot and intruder.

      Really, this is all that should be necessary: "They were in my house, uninvited, fucking my things. I shot them, and they stopped fucking with my things." Done.

      If this is insufficient, then the world is broken.

  3. Bushnell? by frostfreek · · Score: 4, Informative

    Bushnell Trail Sentry 5MP Digital Camera

    Seems like it's packed with features.
    http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-trail-sentry-5mp-trail-night-vision-camera-119305.html

  4. Hunters have the right gear by Gunnut1124 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Don't reinvent the wheel, hunters have already done the hard part. Check around for concealed hunter camera gear. Already camouflaged, and able to take stills or video...

    --
    America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed. -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
    1. Re:Hunters have the right gear by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      Check around for concealed hunter camera gear.

      How's he supposed to find that?!

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  5. Do you have a sign? by rollingcalf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's possible that the more recent dumpers don't even know they're not supposed to dump there; after seeing junk already piled up some may assume that it's a legitimate dumping ground.

    A sign or two saying something like "PRIVATE PROPERTY NO DUMPING" might help, if you don't already have a sign like that which is being ignored.

    --
    ---------
    There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    1. Re:Do you have a sign? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now it all started two Thanksgivings ago, was on - two years ago on Thanksgiving, when my friend and I went up to visit Alice at the restaurant, but Alice doesn't live in the restaurant, she lives in the church nearby the restaurant, in the bell-tower, with her husband Ray and Fasha the dog. And livin' in the bell tower like that, they got a lot of room downstairs where the pews used to be in. Havin' all that room, seein' as how they took out all the pews, they decided that they didn't have to take out their garbage for a long time.

      We got up there, we found all the garbage in there, and we decided it'd be a friendly gesture for us to take the garbage down to the city dump. So we took the half a ton of garbage, put it in the back of a red VW microbus, took shovels and rakes and implements of destruction and headed on toward the city dump.

      Well we got there and there was a big sign and a chain across across the dump saying, "Closed on Thanksgiving." And we had never heard of a dump closed on Thanksgiving before, and with tears in our eyes we drove off into the sunset looking for another place to put the garbage.

      We didn't find one. Until we came to a side road, and off the side of the side road there was another fifteen foot cliff and at the bottom of the cliff there was another pile of garbage. And we decided that one big pile is better than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up we decided to throw our's down.

      That's what we did, and drove back to the church, had a thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat, went to sleep and didn't get up until the next morning, when we got a phone call from officer Obie. He said, "Kid, we found your name on an envelope at the bottom of a half a ton of garbage, and just wanted to know if you had any information about it." And I said, "Yes, sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie, I put that envelope under that garbage."

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re:Do you have a sign? by mcrbids · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why not buy a broken camera from your local junk store and very visibly install it?

      Came here to say this!

      Years ago, I had a computer store, and wanted to cover my hindquarters - we had large, street-access store windows protecting lots of gorgeous, expensive hardware, but I couldn't afford a full-blown solution. So I found some mounting brackets at the hardware store and bought a large, gaudy 8 mm film camera at the local thrift store for $1. I bolted the camera to the mounting brackets, and stuffed a thick, black wire into the headphone jack and jammed it into a hole in the ceiling. It wasn't subtle; it was pointed right at you as you walked in the door.

      Also, when I left for the night, I'd leave a computer running and run a tone generator to simulate the warning sound that an alarm makes for 30-60 seconds before it goes full derp.

      For 4 years I ran that shop without a single incident. About 3 years in, I asked to get a quote from an actual security company, and the camera was good enough fool the consultant who came out to do the quote! Another time, I opened the store for a police officer in order to answer questions about some stolen hardware I'd identified, and he was also worried about the alarm going off. (from the tone generator) I showed him what I was doing and he laughed out loud.

      Appearances can be deceiving and that's good enough in many (most?) cases. As a shining example of this: The TSA!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    3. Re:Do you have a sign? by orgelspieler · · Score: 3, Funny

      Why not buy a broken camera from your local junk store and very visibly install it?

      Why buy one? I'm sure that these guys have already dumped one on his property.

  6. Appropriate Signage by LF11 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Place signs around the area (they do not have to be large) saying, "Video Surveillance in Use." Make sure you clean up any existing trash.

    If dumping persists, use a game camera to take pictures, then tack up some large prints of the perps dumping.

    Something like this: https://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=video+surveillance+signs&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=1173&bih=640&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8862164393585909605&sa=X&ei=okp0UO2UPMWXiAKB-YHAAQ&ved=0CGsQ8gIwBg

    People really pay attention to little cues like this when they are doing something nefarious. Good luck.

    1. Re:Appropriate Signage by green1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which brings us to your second point, which is very correct. I have no idea how to change a person's mindset so they don't dump in the first place. If you ever figure it out, please pretty please let us know!

      There is no 100% method, but the best way is to make sure they get caught. Scaring them off your property just sends them to someone else's, having the police fine and/or jail them sends a message that this isn't socially acceptable behaviour. This is why the camera idea, while a lot more effort for the submitter, is a better option than simply signs implying cameras or guns. It is actually possibly less effective in the short run for the submitter (especially if dealing with multiple people dumping), and takes more time, effort, and money then the signs, but it helps all of society, not just himself.
      I applaud the submitter for going this route.

  7. Neighbors by vlm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I grew up in a semi-rural area so I know what I'm talkin bout here:

    Figure out why your neighbors hate you and convince them to like you. Lets be realistic, middle of nowhere, nobody's driving 500 miles just to dump on your land... You pissed someone off who lives VERY nearby and the folks who could bust him are better friends with him than you. Fix that.

    Talk to your local politicans and get fees removed from the community landfill. That's insane. Not legally permissible where I live, I believe by state reg, because the DNR doesn't want to spend $20000 cleaning up dumped motor oil as a result of "profit" they'd make from charging $5 at the landfill, not to mention it provides a profit motive for turning touristy scenery into a 3rd world wasteland. Sometimes a double taxation argument works... Govt already made 5% sales tax when I bought my motor oil, presumably they don't need another 5% to dispose of it.

    Another thing I don't understand is I cannot throw out steel or metal anything without the local meth heads stealing it and getting money for it at the junkyard. Other stuff you're reporting sounds bogus. Goodwill accepts anything electronic and sometimes makes a profit reselling it. There's a veterans group who collect furniture, drive up to your house with a pickup and they unload "for free" although since they're doing "good" I slip them some cash (knowing its probably paying for their lunch instead of going in their treasury, and I don't mind a bit). The only thing I can kinda understand is the countertop, but only kinda. Like where do those come from? If its wood, burn it. If its rock, bury it. If its steel the meth heads already stole it. So...

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:Neighbors by istartedi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Depending on the age of the tires, you may have stumbled upon a historic dump! Tires hold up remarkably well over time.

      The land that forms Shenandoah National Park was condemned in the 1930s. Most of them have passed on, but you might still find some folks who remember being evicted off their land and have an abiding hate for the Federal government which is part of a long tradition among mountain folk dating back to the Whiskey Rebellion, carried on by Prohibition, and nurtured by various other grievances to this very day. Their children are certainly still alive and brought up on the stories.

      I haven't seen a dump site, but I have seen a marked site where a school and some other buildings formerly existed. Only the stone walls endured. Some of the smaller parks in Virginia have backstories like this too. Bull Run is fascinating--ruins and Civil War brestworks which are kind of like half-open trenches. There's another web site out there that explains how a "ditch in the woods" that I never thought twice about is actually the channel for a mill that once ground grain.

      Anyway, you might have found an archaelogical site as opposed to a modern dump. When the trash was left, there was a poorly graded road which is now overgrown with trees. Finding 80 year old roads in the woods is an art; it's amazing how quicly nature reclaims things.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  8. Re:Talk to the cops by pavon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The main point of the camera is to have firm information to give to the cops. They aren't going to waste resources doing an in-depth investigation over something like this. But if you can give them a license plate number and a picture of the guys, they are much more likely to deal with them. And if not you have everything you need to head to small claims court.

  9. Fuckin' boot lickers by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 4, Funny

    And any idea of what my legal rights are to videotape or record?

    On your own property? To catch trespassers dumping garbage?

    Jeebus, is our country so in the shit we need to ask that now? Why should corporations and the government have a right to surveil and that right be denied to us? Why is every sentence in this post a question?

  10. Re:Where Do You Live That That Is Considered Okay? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Even if it is a dirt road, it's not your property and if you don't have permission to be leaving shit all over the place then you don't do it. Where do you live that you can just legally drive around and say "this looks good, I don't see any signs" and dump shit to rust and rot and look terrible? Am I the only person that is appalled by that?

    Nope; I grew up on such a dirt road, and cheap-ass idiots dumping shit because they don't want to pay $10 at the landfill were always the bane of my existence.

    Related anecdote: For about 8 months when I was a kid, my dad and I used to see the same damn people dumping bags of trash on our road every week (I assume city folk who refused to pay for trash service). One time, after they drove off, father proceeded to open one of the trash bags and rifle through it (eww, I know) until he found - drum roll please - a piece of mail with the name and address intact. Several mornings later, the people who dumped the trash awakened to find every last fucking piece of it we had collected over the months spread across their own front lawn. Needless to say, that particular group stopped dumping.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  11. Re:Shotgun. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nah, you're not thinking. This is Slashdot - the home of the BSD toaster.

    So, you get the aforementioned hunter cam, then you open the case, find the signal to that fires the camera, rig a opsoisolated switch to another relay circuit that fires off a couple of M80's and a small amount of thermite. Take the pics, wait a few seconds, fire off the M80's and the thermite. For extra fun, take a few more pics.

    Bonus points for rigging explosions down the road on a tripwire or such so that you continue to 'fire' on the miscreants as the run screaming for their lives.

    Use some imagination here, folks.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  12. Re:Where Do You Live That That Is Considered Okay? by Mephistophocles · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You'd think, as someone who lives out in the boondocks in the southern US, it's not as uncommon as you'd think. I had a similar problem for a couple of years on my DRIVEWAY (it was a very long gravel driveway that looked kind of like an access road, but still). After considering the 12-gauge approach for a while, I used some hunting cameras in strategic locations and was able to get license numbers, hi-res photos, everything - one call to the county Sheriff and the problem was taken care of - large fine plus a term in the county jail. I decided not to sue them since they probably didn't have anything to take anyway, but could have.

    --
    Deja Moo: The distinct feeling that you've heard this bull before.
  13. An uncle of mine had the same problem by doginthewoods · · Score: 4, Funny

    The camera system worked great, but getting the trash picked up was left to him, and the cops wouldn't go after the dumpers. So he took an old pistol, loaded it with blanks, got a relay and hooked to the trigger, used the motion detector system to trigger the relay and put the whole thing where it was protected and hidden. And then put up a "trespassers will be shot" sign. That ended the dumping.

    --
    Republican leadership = Idiocracy
  14. Re:Where Do You Live That That Is Considered Okay? by ClayDowling · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did you provide them with color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one?