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Ask Slashdot: How Do SSDs Die?

First time accepted submitter kfsone writes "I've experienced, first-hand, some of the ways in which spindle disks die, but either I've yet to see an SSD die or I'm not looking in the right places. Most of my admin-type friends have theories on how an SSD dies but admit none of them has actually seen commercial grade drives die or deteriorate. In particular, the failure process seems like it should be more clinical than spindle drives. If you have X many of the same SSD drive and none of them suffer manufacturing defects, if you repeat the same series of operations on them they should all die around the same time. If that's correct, then what happens to SSDs in RAID? Either all your drives will start to fail together or at some point, your drives will become out of sync in-terms of volume sizing. So, have you had to deliberately EOL corporate grade SSDs? Do they die with dignity or go out with a bang?"

56 of 510 comments (clear)

  1. CRC Errors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I had 2 out of 5 SSDs fail (OCZ) with CRC errors, I'm guessing faulty cells.

    1. Re:CRC Errors by Quakeulf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How big in terms of gigabytes were they? I have two disks from OCZ myself and they have been pretty fine so far. The biggest is 64 gb, the smallest is 32 gb. I was thinking of upgrading to a 256 gb SSD at some point but not knowing what might kill it is something I honestly have not thought of, and would like some input on. My theory is heat and a faulty power supply would play major roles in this, but not so sure about physical impact although to some extent it would break it.

    2. Re:CRC Errors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      OCZ has some pretty notorious QA issues with a few lines of their SSDs, especially if your firmware isn't brand spanking new at all times.

      I'd google your drive info to see if yours are on death row. They seem a little small (old) for that, since I only know of problems with their more recent, bigger drive.

    3. Re:CRC Errors by Synerg1y · · Score: 4, Interesting

      OCZ makes several different product lines of SSDs, each line has it's own quirks, so generalizing OCZ's QA issues isn't accurate. I've always had good luck with the vertex 3s both for myself & people I install them for. I've a SSD die once and it looked identifcal to a spinning disk failure from a chkdsk point of view, can't remember what kind it was, it was either an OCZ, or a Corsair, but I can name a ton of both of those brands that are still going 2-3y+.

    4. Re:CRC Errors by Dishwasha · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've had over 10 replacements on the original OCZ Vertex 160GB drives and an unnecessary motherboard replacement on my laptop that I eventually figured out was due to the laptop battery reaching the end of its life and not providing enough voltage. Unfortunately OCZ's engineers did not design the drives to handle loss of voltage and the drives absolutely corrupt. Eventually OCZ sneakily modified their warranty to include not providing warranty when the drives don't receive enough power rather than getting their engineers to just fix the problem. I'm actually running on a Vertex 3 and as of yet have not had that problem, but I am crossing my fingers.

    5. Re:CRC Errors by lytles · · Score: 5, Funny

      power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely

    6. Re:CRC Errors by Mattcelt · · Score: 5, Funny

      And a lack of power enables corruption. QED

    7. Re:CRC Errors by MrL0G1C · · Score: 5, Informative
      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    8. Re:CRC Errors by markhahn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      this is not very useful, as it mainly points out that the initial generations of commodity SSDs were immature. not to mention that return rates contain other phenomena than wear or even failure.

    9. Re:CRC Errors by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am running (6) OCZ Vertex2 256GB drives under heavy use 24/7. Almost 2 years on have only had one fail and it still works, just started kicking random errors.

      Your failure rate of > 8% per year isn't very reassurring.

    10. Re:CRC Errors by Dishwasha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would counter-argue that any flash drive manufacturer is asking for massive RMAs when the device is clearly targeted for the laptop market (otherwise they would manufacture it in a 3.5" format) where the operating environment is guaranteed to be running on a battery for long periods of time. Any research in to battery operation would expose you to the vast differences in operating voltage as batteries discharge as well as the age of the battery. It is just bad engineering to not take this in to account.

      Reformatting the drive was not an option because the drive wouldn't even detect in the BIOS unless the special factory jumper was set which is a non-operational mode for the drive. This problem was reproduced over 10 times with over 10 different drives of the same model Vertex. Slightly bad power caused the entire drive to be rendered unusable. Amazingly, none of the other hardware in the laptop had any problem with the power (i.e. screen, cpu, memory, other spindle-based hard drive, gpu, etc.). As I said, bad engineering.

    11. Re:CRC Errors by ZedNaught · · Score: 5, Informative

      Firmwares release notes, from January 13th, 2012: "Correct a condition where an incorrect response to a SMART counter will cause the m4 drive to become unresponsive after 5184 hours of Power-on time. The drive will recover after a power cycle, however, this failure will repeat once per hour after reaching this point. The condition will allow the end user to successfully update firmware, and poses no risk to user or system data stored on the drive."

  2. Umm by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was my understanding that for traditional drives in a RAID you don't want to get all the same type of drive all made around the same time since they will fail around the same time too. Same would apply to SSDs.

    1. Re:Umm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      yeah, sounds like submitter may be mildly deficient

      Which is why he's asking.

      Fuck people who ask questions when they don't know something, right?

    2. Re:Umm by kelemvor4 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It was my understanding that for traditional drives in a RAID you don't want to get all the same type of drive all made around the same time since they will fail around the same time too. Same would apply to SSDs.

      Never heard of that. I've got about 450 servers each with a raid1 and raid10 array of physical disks. We always buy everything together, including all the disks. If one fails we get alerts from the monitoring software and get a technician to the site that night for a disk replacement. I think I've seen one incident in the past 14 years I've been in this department where more than one disk failed at a time.

      My thought on buying them separately is that you run the risk of getting devices with different firmware levels or other manufacturer revisions which would be less than ideal when raided together. Not to mention you have a mess for warranty management. We replace systems (disks included) when the 4 year warranty expires.

    3. Re:Umm by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 4, Informative

      The rationale behind splitting hard drives in a RAID between a number of manufacturers batches, even for identical drives, it to try and avoid a problem with an entire batch that's slipped past QA from taking out an entire array of drives simultaneously.

      I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough....?

    4. Re:Umm by statusbar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've seen two instances where a drive failed. Each time there were no handy replacement drives. Within a week a second drive died the same way as the first! back to backup tapes! Better to have replacement drives in boxes waiting.

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    5. Re:Umm by ByOhTek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In general, if you get such an issue, it will happen early on in the life of the drives (one coworker had what he called the 30-day thrash rule - he would plan ahead and get a huge number of drives - the cheapest available meeting requirements, including avoiding manufacturers we had issues with previously, take a handleful, and thrash 'em for 30 days. If nothing bad happend, he'd either keep up 30 day thrashes on sets of hard drives, pulling out the duds, or just return the whole lot.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    6. Re:Umm by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Too true. Years ago we bought batches of Seagate Atlas drives, and all of them pretty much started dying within weeks of each other. They were still under warranty, so we got a bunch more of the same drives, and lo and behold within nine months they were crapping out again. It absolutely amazed me how closely together the drives crapped out.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:Umm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Warranty replacement drivers are refurbished, meaning they've already failed once. I've never had a refurb drive last a full year without failing. It's gotten bad enough that I don't bother sending them back for warranty replacement anymore.

    8. Re:Umm by CaptSlaq · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've seen two instances where a drive failed. Each time there were no handy replacement drives. Within a week a second drive died the same way as the first! back to backup tapes! Better to have replacement drives in boxes waiting.

      This. Your spares closet is your best friend in the enterprise. Ensure you keep it stocked.

    9. Re:Umm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Google published a study they did of their own consumer grade drives, and found the same time. If the drive survives the first month of load, it will likely go on to work for years, but if it throws even just SMART errors in the first 30 days, it is likely to be dodgy

    10. Re:Umm by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 5, Informative

      For those who are interested the white paper is titled "Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population" and can be found here. It is a fairly short read (13 total pages) and quite interesting if you are into monitoring stuff.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    11. Re:Umm by infodragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      [Sarcasm]Nothing like 20/20 hindsight... If I had done anything like trying to rebuild the array it would have fallen apart... Oh wait... If I had followed what you suggested I would have been SCREWED.[/Sarcasm]

      I made a decision based on what on the information on hand.. The rebuild would have take more than a few hours, 80GB disk was SLOW, i.e. first gen SATA. By executing the DB dump I was hitting less than 1/2 the disk capacity on read than 100% disk capacity on a write. It would be significantly faster to retrieve the data than to rebuild. That time window was critical, 2 hours of read vs 4+ hours of write. I also knew I had all the data on hand and all the scripts tested monthly for rebuilding the entire DB on a different server. The decision was easy! Grab the DB data now, redeploy on another system and address the issue on the spot. The system ended up being down 3 hours rather than 24+.

      Secondly The failure was abrupt with no SMART messages, I couldn't trust the others to not have the same non-reporting issues. I made a choice on the spot on how to proceed knowing full well I may have signed my own 24h torture warrant. Fortunately I didn't have the worst case happen and I learned a critical lesson.

      A bit more information...

      +- 30 minutes on each one
      First disk failed...
      2 hours later second disk failed...
      2 hours later third disk failed.
      2 hours later 4th disk failed
      16 hours later 5th disk failed.

      --
      If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
    12. Re:Umm by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When a drive fails and a RAID goes into reconstruction (if you are set up that way), that's when you are significantly more likely to have another drive fail due to all the extra activity across the RAID.

      We see it all the time on a big array. One must hustle to repair/rebuild the RAID... ;-)

    13. Re:Umm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've seen two instances where a drive failed. Each time there were no handy replacement drives. Within a week a second drive died the same way as the first! back to backup tapes! Better to have replacement drives in boxes waiting.

      This. Your spares closet is your best friend in the enterprise. Ensure you keep it stocked.

      And locked. And don't label them "spares". Label them "cold swap fallback device" or something that management won't see as something "extra" that can be "repurposed" (i.e. stolen)

    14. Re:Umm by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mostly the methadology as well as it disproving some of the standard thought (heat or activity kills drives). While they were looking for some leading indicator for all drive failures (were some error reported before a given drive crapped out) which is what they didn't find as a large portion of the drives just crapped out without warning any drives that did start to report warnings were very likely to crap out shortly (I think their threshold was 60 days) which does help to prevent down time. Interestingly I had to look into disk monitoring at my job and ran across that paper, implemented some automated S.M.A.R.T. monitoring and one of the disks in a box had tossed some errors. People complained because my code was alarming this issue so they thought my code was bad. A couple days later the drive gave up the ghost and I was vindicated.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    15. Re:Umm by kasperd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That is why one uses RAID 6 with lower tier drives and hot spares.

      Best argument for RAID 6 is bad sectors discovered during reconstruction. Assume one of your disks have a bad sector somewhere. Unless you periodically read through all your disks, you may not notice this for a long time. Now assume a different disk dies. Reconstruction starts writing on your hot spare. But during reconstruction an unreadable sector is found on a different drive. On RAID 5, that means data loss.

      I have on one occasion been assigned the task on recovering from pretty much that situation. And some of the data did not exist anywhere else. In the end my only option was to retry reading the bad media over and over until on one pass I got lucky.

      With RAID 6 you are much better off. If one disk is completely lost and you start reconstructing to the hot spare, you can tolerate lots of bad sectors. As long as you are not so unlucky to find bad sectors in the exact same location on two different drives, reconstruction will succeed. An intelligent RAID 6 system will even correct bad sectors in the process. When a bad sector is detected during this reconstruction, the data for both the bad sector as well as this location on the hot spare are reconstructed simultaneously and both can be written to the respective disk.

      At the end of the reconstruction you not only have reconstructed the lost disk, you have also reconstructed all the bad sectors found on any of the drives. Should one of the disks run out of space for remapping bad sectors in the process, then that disk is next in line to be replaced.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
  3. How do SSD's die by AwesomeMcgee · · Score: 5, Funny

    Screaming in agony, hissing bits and bleeding jumperless in the night

  4. Re:Die! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow - you've been here a long long time then

  5. They usually die gracefully... by dublin · · Score: 5, Informative

    In general, if the SSD in question has a well-designed controller (Intel, SandForce), then write performance will begin to drop off as bad blocks start to accumulate on the drive. Eventually, wear levelling and write cycles have taken their toll, and the disk can no longer write at all. At this point, the controller does all it can: it effectively becomes a read-only disk. It should operate in this mode until else something catastrophic (tin migration, capacitor failure, etc.) keeps the entire drive from working.

    BTW - I haven't seen this either, but that's the degradation profile that's been presented to me in several presentations by the folks making SSD drives and controllers. (Intel had a great one a few years back - don't have a link to it handy, though...)

    --
    "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
    1. Re:They usually die gracefully... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had an Intel SSD run out of spare capacity and it was not fun. Windows kept forgetting parts of my profile and resetting things to default or reverting back to backup copies. The drive didn't report a SMART failure either, even with Intel's own SSD monitoring tool. I had to run a full SMART "surface scan" before it figured it out.

      That sums up the problem. The controller doesn't start reporting failures early enough and the OS just tries to deal with it as best as possible, leaving the user to figure out what is happening.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  6. They die without warning and without recourse by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 3, Informative

    With traditional mechanical drives, you usually get a clicking noise accompanied by a time period where you can offload data from the drive before it fails completely. In my experience, though SSDs don't fail as often, when they do, it's sudden and catastrophic. Having said that, I've only seen one fail out of the ~10 we've deployed here (and it was in a laptop versus traditional desktop / workstation). So BACK IT UP. Just my $0.02.

    1. Re:They die without warning and without recourse by PRMan · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have had two SSD crashes. One was on a very cheap Zelman 32GB drive which never really worked (OK, about twice). The other was on a Kingston 64GB that I have in my server. When it gets really hot in the room (over 100, so probably over 120 for the drive itself in the case), it will crash. But when it cools down, it works perfectly well.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    2. Re:They die without warning and without recourse by cellocgw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      With traditional mechanical drives, you usually get a clicking noise accompanied by a time period where you can offload data from the drive before it fails completely.

      OK, so I'm sure some enterprising /.-er can write a script that watches the SSD controller and issues some clicks to the sound card when cells are marked as failed.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    3. Re:They die without warning and without recourse by dougmc · · Score: 5, Informative

      With traditional mechanical drives, you usually get a clicking noise accompanied by a time period where you can offload data from the drive before it fails completely.

      Usually? No.

      This does happen sometimes, but it certainly doesn't happen "usually". There's enough different failure mechanisms for hard drives that there isn't any one "usual" method --

      1- drive starts reporting read and/or write errors occasionally, but otherwise seems to keep working
      2- drive just suddenly stops working completely all at once
      3- drive starts making noise (and performance usually drops massively), but the drive still works.
      4- drive seems to keep working, but smart data starts reporting all sorts of problems.

      Personally, I've had #1 happen more often than anything else, usually with a healthy serving of #4 at about the same time or shortly before. #2 is the next most common failure mode, at least in my experience.

  7. Re:They shrink by tgd · · Score: 4, Informative

    The drives will shrink down to nothing. I believe that the drive controller considers a sector dead after 100,000 writes.

    Filesystems, generally speaking, aren't resilient to the underlying disk geometry changing after they've been laid down. There's reserved space to replace bad cells as they start to die, but the disk won't shrink. Eventually, though, you get parts of the disk dying in an unrecoverable way and the drive is toast.

  8. Re:When you're nearing maximum write limit by theNetImp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So by reason of thinking, if you have a RAID of 15 drives for storage of images, these images never change, they are written and never over written, then the SSDs should theoretically never die because they are only reading these bits now?

  9. Bang! by greg1104 · · Score: 4, Informative

    All three of the commercial grade SSD failures I've cleaned up after (I do PostgreSQL data recovery) just died. No warning, no degrading in SMART attributes; works one minute, slag heap the next. Presumably some sort of controller level failure. My standard recommendation here is to consider then no more or less reliable than traditional disks and always put them in RAID-1 pairs. Two of the drives were Intel X25 models, the other was some terrible OCZ thing.

    Out of more current drives, I was early to recommend Intel's 320 series as a cheap consumer solution reliable for database use. The majority of those I heard about failing died due to firmware bugs, typically destroying things during the rare (and therefore not well tested) unclean shutdown / recovery cases. The "Enterprise" drive built on the same platform after they tortured consumers with those bugs for a while is their 710 series, and I haven't seen one of those fail yet. That's not across a very large installation base nor for very long yet though.

    1. Re:Bang! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Does anyone else find this sort of thing upsetting? I grew up during that period of time when tech failed dramatically on TV and in movies. Sparks, flames, explosions - crew running around randomly spraying everything with fire extinguishers. Klaxons going off. Orders given and received. Damage control reports.

      None of this 'oh snap, the hard drive died'.

      Personally, I think the HD (and motherboard) manufacturers ought to climb back on the horse. Make failure modes exciting again. Give us a run for the money. It can't be hard - there still must be plenty of bad electrolytic capacitors out there.

      How about a little love?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  10. Data corruption, then fails e2fsck upon boot by vlm · · Score: 3, Informative

    My experience was system crash due to corruption of loaded executables, then at the hard reboot it fails the e2fsck because the "drive" is basically unwritable so the e2fsck can't complete.

    It takes a long time to kill a modern SSD... this failure was from back when a CF plugged into a PATA-to-CF adapter was exotic even by /. standards

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  11. I have seen SSD death by MRGB · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have seen SSD death many times and it is a strange sight indeed. What is interesting about it when compared to normal drives is that when normal drives fail it is - mostly - and all or nothing ordeal. A bad spot on a drive is a bad spot on a drive. With SSDs you can have a bad spot one place, reboot, and you get a bad spot in another place. Windows loaded on an SSD will exhibit all kinds of bizarre behaviour. Sometimes it will hang, sometimes it will blue-screen, sometimes it will boot normally until it tries to read or write to that random bad spot. Rebooting is like rolling the dice to see what it will do next - that is, until it fails completely.

  12. Oblig: T. S. Eliot by stevegee58 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Not with a bang but a whimper.

  13. X-25M Death: Firmware bug too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I had an 80G Intel X-25M fail in an interesting manner. Windows machine, formatted NTFS, Cygwin environment. Drive had been in use for about a year, "wear indicator" still read 100% fine. Only thing wrong with it is that it had been mostly (70 out of 80G full) filled, but wear leveling should have mitigated that. It had barely a terabyte written to it over its short life.

    Total time from system operational to BSOD was about ten minutes. I first noticed difficulties when I invoked a script that called a second script, and the second script was missing. "ls -l" on the missing script confirmed that the other script wasn't present. While scratching my head about $PATH settings and knowing damn well I hadn't changed anything, a few minutes later, I discovered I also couldn't find /bin/ls.exe. In a DOS prompt that was already open, I could DIR C:\cygwin\bin - the directory was present, ls.exe was present, but it wasn't anything that the OS was capable of executing. Sensing imminent data loss, and panic mounting, I did an XCOPY /S /E... etc to salvage what I could from the failing SSD.

    Of the files I recovered by copying them from the then-mortally-wounded system, I was able to diff them against a valid backup. Most of the recovered files were OK, but several had 65536-byte blocks consisting of nothing but zeroes.

    Around this point, the system (unsurprisingly, as executables and swap and heaven knows what else was being riddled with 64K blocks of zeroes) crashed. On reboot, Windows attempted (and predictably failed) to recover (assinine that Windows tries to write to iself on boot, but also assinine of me to not power the thing down and yank the drive, LOL.) The system did recognize it as an 80G drive and attempted to boot itself - Windows logo, recovery console, and all.

    On an attempt to mount the drive from another boot disk, the drive still appeared as an 80G drive once, unfortunately, it couldn't remain mounted long enough for me to attempt further file recovery or forensics.

    A second attempt - and all subsequent attempts - to mount the drive showed it as an 8MB (yes, eight megabytes) drive.

    I'll bet most of the data's still there. (The early X-25Ms didn't use encryption). What's interesting is that the newer drives have a similar failure mode that's widely recognized as a firmware bug. If there were a way to talk to the drive over its embedded debugging port (like the Seagate Barracuda fix from a few years ago), I'll bet I could recover most of the data.

    (I don't actually need the data, as I got it all back from backups, but it's an interesting data recovery project for a rainy day. I'll probably just desolder the chips and read the raw data off 'em. Won't work for encrypted drives, but it might work for this one.)

  14. SSD wear cliff by RichMan · · Score: 4, Informative

    SSD's have an advertised capacity N and an actual capacity M. Where M > N. In general the bigger M realtive to N the better the performance and lifetime of the drive. As it wears it will "silently" assign bad blocks and reduce M. Your write performance will degrade. If you have good analysis tools it will tell you when it starts getting a lot of blocks near end of life and when M is getting reduced.

    Blocks near end of life are also more likely to get read errors. The drive firmware is supposed to juggle things around so all of the blocks near end of life about the same time. With a soft read error the block will be moved to a more reliable portion of the SSD. That means increased wear.

    1. Watch write perforamance/spare block count
    2. If you get any read errors do a block life audit
    3. When you get into life limiting events things accelerate to bad due to the mitigation behaviors

    Be carefull depending on the sensitivities of the firmware it will let you get closer to catastrophe before warning you. More likely to be closer in consumer grade.

  15. Re:When you're nearing maximum write limit by SydShamino · · Score: 3, Informative

    In theory, yes. In flashROM devices the erase process is the aging action. Your write-once-never-erase-read-only flash should last until A) enough charge manages to leak out of gates that you get bit errors, or B) the part fails due to corrosion or other long-term aging issue, similar to any piece of electronics.

    If you have raw access to the flashROM you could in theory write the same data into the same unerased bytes to recover from bit errors (if you had an uncorrupted copy), so only aging failures would occur. But of course you can't do this with an SSD as you have no direct access to the memory, and the controller A) wouldn't let you write into unerased space, and B) wouldn't write the data into the exact same place again anyway.

    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  16. Re:They shrink by v1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The sectors you are talking about are often referred to as "remaps" (or "spares"), which is also used to describe the number of blocks that have been remapped. Strategies vary, but an off-the-cuff average would be around one available spare per 1000 allocatable blocks. Some firmware will only use a spare from the same track, other firmware will pull the next nearest available spare. (allowing an entire track to go south)

    The more blocks they reserve for spares, the lower the total capacity count they can list, so they don't tend to be too generous. Besides, if your drive is burning through its spares at any substantial rate, doubling the number of spares on the drive won't actually end up buying you much time, and certainly won't save any data.

    But with the hundreds of failing disks I've dealt with, when more than ~5 blocks have gone bad, the drive is heading out the door fast. Remaps only hide the problem at that point. If your drive has a single block fail when trying to write, it will be remapped silently and you won't ever see the problem unless you check the remap counter in smart. If it gets an unreadable block on a read operation, you will probably see an io error however. Some drives will immediately remap it, but most don't and will conduct the remap when you next try to write to that cell. (otherwise they'd have to return fictitious data, like all zeros)

    So I don't particularly like automatic silent remaps. I'd rather know whean the drive first looks at me funny so I can make sure my backups are current and get a replacement on order, and swap it out before it can even think about getting worse. I prefer to replace a drive on MY terms, on MY schedule, not when it croaks and triggers any grade of crisis. There are legitimate excuses for downtime, but a slowly failing drive shouldn't be one of them.

    All that said, on multiple occasions I've tried to cleanse a drive of IO errors by doing a full zero-it format. All decent OBCCs on drives should verify all writes, so in theory this should purge the drive of all IO errors, provided all available spares have not already been used. The last time I did this on a 1TB Hitachi that had ONE bad block on it, it still had one bad block (via read verify) when the format was done. The write operation did not trigger a remap, (and I presume it wasn't verified, as the format didn't fail) and I don't understand that. If it were out of remaps, the odds of it being ONE short of what it needed is essentially zero. So I wonder in reality just how many drive manufacturers aren't even bothering with remapping bad blocks. All I can attribute this to is crappy product / firmware design.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  17. No, they don't all age the same. by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's statistical, not fixed rate. Some cells wear faster than others due to process variations, and the failures don't show up to you until there are uncorrectable errors. If one chip gets 150 errors spread out across the chip, and another gets 150 in critical positions (near to each other), then the latter one will show failures while the first one keeps going.

    So yeah, when one goes, you should replace them all. But they won't all go at once.

    Also note most people who have seen SSD failures have probably seen them fail due to software bugs in their controllers, not inherent inability to store data due to wear.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  18. Re:Flash SSD has Write Limitations so... by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For flash memory it is the erase cycles, not the write cycles, that drive life.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory

    The quantum tunneling effect described for the erase process can weaken the insulation around the isolated gate, eventually preventing that gate from holding its charge. That's the typical end-of-life scenario for a bit of flash memory.

    You generally don't say that writes are end-of-life because you could, in theory, write the same pattern to the same byte over and over again (without erasing it) and not cause reduction in part life. Or, since bits erase high and write low, you could write the same byte location eight times, deasserting one new bit each time, then erase the whole thing once, and the total would still only be "one" cycle.

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  19. First hand experience here by SeanTobin · · Score: 4, Informative

    I recently had a "old" (cir 2008) 64gb SSD drive die on me. It's death followed this pattern:

    • Inexplicable system slowdowns. In hindsight, this should have been a warning alarm.
    • System crash, followed by a failure to boot due to unclean ntfs volume which couldn't be fixed by chkdisk
    • Failed to mount r/w under Ubuntu. Debug logs showed that the volume was unclean and all writes failed with a timeout
    • Successful r/o mount showed that the filesystem was largely intact
    • Successful dd imaged the drive and allowed a restore to a new drive.

    After popping a new disk in and doing a partition resize, my system was back up and running with no data loss. Of all the storage hardware failures I've experienced, this was probably the most pain-free as the failure caused the drive to simply degrade into a read-only device.

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  20. Bathtub Curve by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The bathtub curve is widely used in reliability engineering. It describes a particular form of the hazard function which comprises three parts:

    • The first part is a decreasing failure rate, known as early failures.
    • The second part is a constant failure rate, known as random failures.
    • The third part is an increasing failure rate, known as wear-out failures.
  21. Theory or Practice? by rabtech · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In theory they should degrade to read-only just as others have pointed out in other posts, allowing you to copy data off them.

    In reality, just like modern hard drives, they have unrecoverable firmware bugs, fuses that can blow with a power surge, controller chips that can burn up, etc.

    And just like hard drives, when that happens in theory you should still be able to read the data off the flash chips but there are revisions to the controller, firmware, etc that make that more or less successful depending on the manufacturer. You also can't just pop the board off the drive like with an HDD, you need a really good surface mount resoldering capability.

    So the answer is "it depends"... If the drive itself doesn't fail but reaches the end of its useful life or was put on the shelf less than 10 years ago (flash capacitors do slowly drain away) then the data should be readable or mostly readable.

    If the drive itself fails, good luck. Maybe you can bypass the fuse, maybe you can re-flash the firmware, or maybe it's toast. Get ready to pay big bucks to find out.

    P.S. OCZ is fine for build it yourself or cheap applications but be careful. They have been known to buy X-grade flash chips for some of their product lines - chips the manufacturers list as only good for kid toys or non-critical, low-volume applications. Don't know if they are still doing it but I avoid their stuff.
    Intel's drives are the best and have the most-tested firmware but you pay for it. Crucial is Micron's consumer brand and tends to be pretty good given they make the actual flash - they are my go-to brand right now. Samsung isn't always the fastest but seems to be reliable.

    Do your research and focus on firmware and reliability, not absolute maximum throughput/IOPs.

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  22. Re:They shrink by v1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    SMART is implemented in different ways by different manufacturers. The idea is that the host can ask the peripheral "what value does slot xx contain?" This can refer to an instantaneous condition, such as the temperature of the hard drive, a static value such as how many spares are currently available, a semidynamic value such as is this hard drive failing, and a dynamic value such as how many remap operations have occurred. There's a short list of "basic/standard" values, and then there's the "extended/optional" metrics that not all devices need to support. Each smart slot will also specify the min and max values. If any smart slot has a value outside its allowed range, overall smart status will report as failing. Once a drive toggles over to failing, there's no going back, unless you figure out a way to reset the counters.

    One of the standard set is the "is the hard drive failing" metric. It allows the host to get a simple yes/no answer to summarize whether any of the metrics have gone beyond their tolerated values. For example, one drive I worked with recently was allowed to overtemp twice. If it had experienced a third overtemp during its lifetime, the drive would then permanently fail the overall test. This allows the host to "check smart status" without really having to think much about what it's doing. This is the basic test that most modern OS's check to see if a hard drive needs to be replaced. You usually need to run a special tool to check individual values being returned by smart. These tools need to have a list of what each slot means, and often will report fairly meaningless information near the end of the list, where they don't know what this 23 means in slot 85 etc.

    Other known values may slowly increment over the lifetime of the drive, such as "head re-calibrations", "remaps", SMS head parks, max g forces experienced, etc. You'd have to compare their current values with their claimed limits to see how close each of these metrics is to causing overall smart to toggle to failed. Without knowing what the metric is, or what it's expected limit is, the numbers aren't useful.

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    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  23. Re:Umm... by daha · · Score: 3, Funny

    That is why one uses RAID 6 with lower tier drives and hot spares.

    Works great until 3 drives in the RAID fail.

    Better make it a RAID-60 just to be safe. And maybe mirror that too.

  24. Experience with all ranges by guruevi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The ultra-cheap SSD's in my severs lasted only 3 months. The 4 OCZ Vertex 3 IOPS have so far lasted over a year with ~2TB processed per disk, 2 Intel SLC and 2 MLC's already over 2 years over which time they have processed ~10TB each (those were all enterprise grade or close to it). They are in a 60TB array doing caching so they regularly get read/write/deleted. I have some OCZ Talos (SAS) as well where one was DoA and another early-death but simply shipping them into RMA and I had another one in a couple of days. But the rest of them do well over 6 months and going.

    Several other random ones still work fine in random desktop machines and workstations.

    As far as spare room on those devices, depending on the manufacturing process you get between 5 and 20% unused space where 'bad' blocks come to live. I haven't had one with bad blocks so most of mine have gone out with a bang, usually they just stop responding and drop out, totally dead. I would definitely recommend RAID6 or mirrors as they do die just like normal hard drives (I just had 3 identical 3TB drives die in the last week)

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  25. Intel SSD in the Enterprise: very low failure rate by bbasgen · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have ordered approximately 500 Intel SSD's over the past 18 months (320 series and the 520 series primarily). To date, we have had exactly one fail to my knowledge. It was a 320 series 160 GB with known firmware issue. We have around 80 of that type and size, and the drive that failed did so on first image. We RMA'ed the drive and got a replacement.