Apple Patents Alternative To NFC

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Apple Patents Alternative To NFC

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday October 17, 2012 @10:10AM from the bet-it'll-have-a-cooler-name dept.

another random user sends word that a set of newly-granted Apple patents published by the USPTO includes an alternative to the near field communication (NFC) technology that has begun to pop up in mobile devices. From the article: "Apple has received a Granted Patent relating to techniques for triggering a process within a portable electronic device that identifies itself for purposes of establishing communications with another device that is in proximity. At the moment, NFC is the technology that's getting all of the attention lately in respect to making it easier for two mobile devices to share information. While Apple is likewise doing research with NFC, they're also working with an alternate methodology for which they've now gained a patent for. In accordance with Apple's newly granted patent, a method for network device discovery monitors a compass output in a portable electronic device. As the portable device and an external device come closer to each other, a magnetic field signature is computed based on the monitored compass output. A determination is then made as to whether the computed signature could be associated with or implies that a previously defined type of electronic device (with which a network device discovery process can be conducted) is in close proximity. In other words, as the two devices come closer to each other, their respective magnetic characteristics cause the compass output to change in a way that implies that a network device discovery process should be initiated between the two devices."

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Betamax, here we come... by Samantha+Wright · 2012-10-17 10:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

So will Apple try to licence this technology to other mobile manufacturers, or will it forever remain on the shelf, never attaining sufficient popularity for POS vendors to support it?

--
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
1. Re:Betamax, here we come... by FyRE666 · 2012-10-17 10:18 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  This is a technology for sharing that's patented so it can't be... shared... er...
  
  --
  Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
2. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-17 10:21 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I put this in the same category as Apple refusing to adopt other standards, such as USB power. Reinforcing its reputation as an operation that doesn't play well with standards.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
3. Re:Betamax, here we come... by alen · 2012-10-17 10:21 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Maybe NFC is the Betamax
  Major League Baseball said that 12% of post season tickets have been used digitally via the new passbook app on iOS 6
4. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Samantha+Wright · 2012-10-17 10:34 · Score: 2
  
  The one remaining theory is that Apple expects their devices to surpass all others, I suppose.
  
  --
  Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
5. Re:Betamax, here we come... by msauve · 2012-10-17 10:55 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  USB power has a fundamental limitation - micro-USB connectors are only rated for 1.7 A. The USB charging spec maxes out at 1.5 A. That's right at the edge for today's phones and battery technology. Lithium batteries exist which can be charged at a 1C rate, and a 1.5 Ah battery is about what most smartphones have. It's more limiting for tablets, which have batteries which can charge faster than USB can allow.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
6. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 11:15 · Score: 1
  
  There is an engineering solution to the current limits - same trick that is used for high voltage power transmission.
  At some point someone could make up a new standard in which the charger and the device could deliver higher power after both side negotiated for a much higher voltage. That could deliver a few time the current power for charging and falls back if the charger/device can't handle it.
7. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Jane+Q.+Public · 2012-10-17 11:21 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  "So will Apple try to licence this technology to other mobile manufacturers, or will it forever remain on the shelf, never attaining sufficient popularity for POS vendors to support it?"
  Who cares? I'm not trying to troll here, but the fact is that NFC was largely busted almost before it came off the shelf (researchers able to covertly read confidential info from mobile NFC devices from several feet away).
  
  Unless technology changes significantly and soon, making financial transactions via radio is just plain a bad idea. You want to exchange E-cards? Fine. You can already do that via infrared or wifi or bluetooth. You don't need NFC (or a similar device or protocol) to do it.
8. Re:Betamax, here we come... by benlwilson · 2012-10-17 11:51 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  USB3 has charging standards which allow for much more power.
  I don't think any manufactures have added support for it yet though.
  Profile 1 - 5V @ 2A
  Profile 2 - 5V @ 2A or 12V@1.5A
  Profile 3 - 5V @ 2A or 12V@3A
  Profile 4 - 20V@3A
  Profile 5 - 12V or 20V at 5A (100W).
  I believe the idea around profile 5 is so laptops can drop the custom power connector and use a USB3 port instead.
  It makes things interesting if all laptop USB ports support all power profiles. You could charge one laptop from another and even make a figurative 'energy black hole' by looping the charge back again with another cable.
9. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-17 11:53 · Score: 1
  
  USB power has a fundamental limitation...
  Oh really. Then why doesn't it limit my quad core Nexus 7? Are you saying that Apple's power design is bad?
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
10. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-17 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  I put this in the same category as Apple refusing to adopt other standards, such as USB power. Reinforcing its reputation as an operation that doesn't play well with standards.
  And some Apple spinmod just reinforced Apple's reputation for not playing well with people.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
11. Re:Betamax, here we come... by aurispector · 2012-10-17 12:00 · Score: 2
  
  NFC strikes me as a dumb idea, too. The bastard child of RFID and bluetooth. Apple will patent it's own alternative then foist it off on the fanbois to drool over. Neither will become the standard and apple's garden will remain solidly walled.
  The only way NFC could become truly useful would be for you to surrender your last vestiges of privacy and control to your phone. Who really wants to convert to e-currency with all the tracking that implies?
  
  --
  I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
12. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-17 12:05 · Score: 1
  
  And only people with Apple products will be able to buy food.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
13. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 12:11 · Score: 0
  
  The proper comparison is Microsoft's Tag, http://tag.microsoft.com/home.aspx
  Doesn't matter if they license it, or if they let other mobile companies integrate it. History says they probably won't. This just isn't going to catch on. It's a recreation of software and systems already in place and creating your own "brand" is just losing money, alienating and confusing users, and in general ruining the already existing possibilities of the established applications. Apple is just turning into Microsoft at this point.
14. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Electricity+Likes+Me · 2012-10-17 12:19 · Score: 1
  
  NFC strikes me as a dumb idea, too. The bastard child of RFID and bluetooth. Apple will patent it's own alternative then foist it off on the fanbois to drool over. Neither will become the standard and apple's garden will remain solidly walled.
  The only way NFC could become truly useful would be for you to surrender your last vestiges of privacy and control to your phone. Who really wants to convert to e-currency with all the tracking that implies?
  NFC's more fundamental problem though is adoption, which is the same problem with this Apple standard. The proposed use cases for NFC are very broad - that is, it doesn't remove any requirements from vendors and end-point users it simply adds new ones. Just look at VISA and Mastercard trying to push those PayWave type systems - and they're the dominant global players in this market.
15. Re:Betamax, here we come... by BasilBrush · 2012-10-17 12:25 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Well, for one thing it's only 7 inch (1280Ã--800) rather than the 9.7 inch (2048Ã--1536) of an iPad 3.
16. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Jane+Q.+Public · 2012-10-17 12:43 · Score: 1
  
  "NFC's more fundamental problem though is adoption, which is the same problem with this Apple standard."
  I understand what you are saying but I disagree. Adoption would cause problems. Very serious privacy and financial problems.
  
  Remember, NFC isn't even relative "passibe" like RFID. The signal power might be low, but it actively transmits. If you can use cheap, portable, concealable gadgets to sniff NFC info from a distance, what about the people who are willing to spend money and install giant antennas on just the other side of the wall? (Like Chris what's-his-name who sniffed "secure" passport RFID info from people from in his car 30 feet away?)
17. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Jane+Q.+Public · 2012-10-17 12:45 · Score: 1
  
  s/relative passibe/relatively passive
  
  meh.
18. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 12:53 · Score: 0
  
  Are you that brain dead? Please read up on the connector before you make idiot remarks like that.
19. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Lumpy · 2012-10-17 12:55 · Score: 2
  
  "Oh really. Then why doesn't it limit my quad core Nexus 7? Are you saying that Apple's power design is bad?"
  you are charging your Quad Core nexus 7 at 2 amps? Wierd, because mine doesnt. Where did you get a special nexus 7 that nobody else got?
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
20. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Lumpy · 2012-10-17 12:57 · Score: 1
  
  It's a neat idea it just doesnt work.. at least for the payment systems. every time over the past 30 times I have tried it, it takes 50X longer to pay at the register with NFC than whipping out the credit card and swiping. It has to have a constant data connection to the Wallet servers during the transaction, and 99% of all stores have a Cellphone blocking design of being made with all metal roofs and siding.
  I've uninstalled Google Wallet because it's a complete failure. If it cant work without a live data connection, it's stillborn.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
21. Re:Betamax, here we come... by complete+loony · 2012-10-17 13:13 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I think the main problem is this fascination with building sub-standard cryptographic primitives into the network layer. NFC should just be a transparent network transport, assumed to be insecure. That higher level protocols can use for key exchange and other encrypted tunnel protocols.
  
  --
  09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
22. Re:Betamax, here we come... by stephanruby · 2012-10-17 13:23 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Maybe NFC is the Betamax
  Major League Baseball said that 12% of post season tickets have been used digitally via the new passbook app on iOS 6
  You should qualify that percentage. It's only 12% of the single game post season tickets that were sold online, not 12% of all their single game post season tickets.
  Also, that percentage doesn't take into account the iPhone users that bought the tickets but got lost on the way there, nor the iPhone users that bought the tickets that were just waved in by staff (or had to reprint their ticket on actual paper at the park itself) because the barcode couldn't be scanned in because of the glare on their screen, and nor does it count the iPhone users that were only trying to remove the unremovable PassBook icon from their homescreen and that ended up buying a ticket to the game by accident instead. :)
  Actually, I was only kidding about that last one, iPhone users didn't accidentally buy post season tickets (at least not to my knowledge), but the part about iPhone owners being pissed off at having an unremovable PassBook icon on their homescreen, when most of them have no interest in buying Baseball tickets, nor any interest in PassBook. That part is completely true. Comments of these very upset iPhone users can be found all over the Internet.
  You'll find these comments just next to some of the Android phone users complaining about having a NASCAR app on their phone, the only difference being that not all Android phones come with commercial bloatware, only some do, and that when they do, that bloatware can still be removed the homescreen even if it can't be removed from the phone.
23. Re:Betamax, here we come... by ikaruga · 2012-10-17 14:11 · Score: 1
  
  Not necessarily. That would be like saying micro-USB is the Betamax just because most mobile accessories come with a Apple Dock connector.
24. Re:Betamax, here we come... by vux984 · 2012-10-17 14:13 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe NFC is the Betamax
  No betamax was the technology only one company was allowed to make (sony), while everyone else in the industry made VHS.
  What ever apple has is the isolated single manufacture tech. NFC is relatively ubiquitous and widely available.
  So from this we can conclude the winning technology will be....
  which ever one gets adopted by porn.
25. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-17 14:34 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Well, for one thing it's only 7 inch (1280Ã--800) rather than the 9.7 inch (2048Ã--1536) of an iPad 3.
  iPad 3 is a power sucking monstrosity. The only reason Apple quadrupled the resolution was because of the scatterbrained design decision to let applications depend on fixed resolution. Exacerbated by the idiotic lack of hinting in Apple's font engine, so higher resolution is needed just to get equivalently sharp characters that Android gets with proper hinting. Oh, and the fixed resolution idiocy came back to bite Apple again with the iPhone 5 - forcing the funny looking too-long-and-skinny form factor just to keep the 640 dot display width. And letterboxing! Who was asleep at the wheel in the Apple's engineering department anyway? Well I'm not complaining of course. Strategy like this is the best and fastest way to transform Apple from a growth stock to a shrink stock. Which couldn't happen to a nicer company.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
26. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 14:44 · Score: 1
  
  And only people with Apple products will be able to buy food.
  Does this mean the "mark of the beast" is going to be the Apple logo?
27. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 15:14 · Score: 0
  
  Who really wants to convert to e-currency with all the tracking that implies?
  Everyone I know.
28. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  I think you got the special Nexus 7, as it seems to use almost all of the 2 amp rating of the charger I have. And looking around online, it seems like that is true of others too, although it will work with a crappier charger and charge slower.
29. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 15:59 · Score: 0
  
  Magnet + reed switch = PROFIT!?!?!?!
30. Re:Betamax, here we come... by spire3661 · 2012-10-17 16:02 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  DOES NOT require a data connection during transaction. I have successfully purchased stuff in a store using Google wallet on my Nexus 7 with no data connection of any kind (other then the NFC link)
  
  --
  Good-bye
31. Re:Betamax, here we come... by bill_mcgonigle · 2012-10-17 16:27 · Score: 1
  
  The bastard child of RFID and bluetooth.
  Not really. It's actually a well-considered bit of technology. Go read up on how it works - you may be impressed.
  Who really wants to convert to e-currency with all the tracking that implies?
  Everybody who uses credit and debit cards? NFC has the potential to be those, but much more secure. Yes, the current implementation of Google Wallet is a turkey, but that's a software problem.
  Replacing cash is a separate issue.
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
32. Re:Betamax, here we come... by SomePgmr · 2012-10-17 17:11 · Score: 2
  
  My understanding was that NFC can (and should) be used exactly like that, where as a transport the limited range has some very small amount of utility in the way of security, but that you're meant to implement higher level cryptographic protocols on top, per application.
33. Re:Betamax, here we come... by azalin · 2012-10-17 18:58 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  And only people with Apple products will be able to buy food.
  Does this mean the "mark of the beast" is going to be the Apple logo?
  Isn't a bitten apple already a symbol for the original sin that got Adam and Eve evicted from paradise?
34. Re:Betamax, here we come... by azalin · 2012-10-17 19:08 · Score: 1
  
  My near field communications in the mentioned interpersonal interaction does usually not involve smartphones. On the other hand interpersonal interaction does not qualify as pron for those directly involved. So your point might be valid.
35. Re:Betamax, here we come... by lxs · 2012-10-17 19:24 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  If my experience is anything to go by, it will be the exact opposite. People with Android and other phones will have no problems but iphone users will be standing there poking at their tiny screen, wondering why their superior machine won't play with non-Apple world. Apparently sending a picture to a photo kiosk (they all seem to run on XP embedded) via bluetooth is beyond its capabilities.
36. Re:Betamax, here we come... by AmiMoJo · 2012-10-17 19:34 · Score: 1
  
  NFC is already widely accepted in many parts of the world and a cross-device standard available in everything from smart cards to phones, so it isn't going anywhere.
  Apple's system seems to be much, much lower data rate at best. To be honest it seems more like a gimmick designed to allow users to do the physical action of bringing phones together like their NFC enabled friends can, but doesn't actually have the same functionality or data transfer capability.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
37. Re:Betamax, here we come... by JasterBobaMereel · 2012-10-17 20:01 · Score: 1
  
  BetaMax was Sony, VHS was a consortium including Sony ...
  When BetaMax was shelved VHS gained almost all of the innovation of BetaMax and so became almost the best of both worlds ...
  SmartPhones are rapidly becoming Apple vs non-Apple ... and anything Apple patents will never appear in any other phone (or often any phone)
  
  --
  Puteulanus fenestra mortis
38. Re:Betamax, here we come... by jareth-0205 · 2012-10-17 20:53 · Score: 1
  
  Unless I'm missing something, don't we already have this widely deployed and used on credit cards? Nearly every debit and credit card in the UK issued now have contactless NFC in them, and lots of places take them. Isn't NFC-on-phone essentially the same thing?
39. Re:Betamax, here we come... by neyla · 2012-10-17 20:57 · Score: 1
  
  Everyone I know did a decade ago, today 90%+ of all transactions, 95%+ if you go by money-value not "count of transactions" is done by card, i.e a system that lets VISA, your bank and the store track precisely who you are and what you buy.
  There's a few people above 50 who still shop with cash, but they're a dying breed.
40. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 21:24 · Score: 0
  
  Are there any good easy to understand explanations of how it works, something a bit better than the wikipedia article?
41. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 21:59 · Score: 0
  
  And how's that variable screen resolution working out for Android software? Not very well.
  Retina is a solution to the problem of software developers (especially game developers, who need a target resolution to design graphics for) not being able to support an infinitely variable pixel canvas. In an ideal world software would scale to whatever display it's running on, but reality is, that's not happening.
  The iPad 3 is a power sucking monstrosity, but it sure does have a nice display.
42. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 22:07 · Score: 0
  
  and anything Apple patents will never appear in any other phone (or often any phone)
  Except, of course, "rectangles with rounded corners".
43. Re:Betamax, here we come... by ericloewe · 2012-10-17 22:18 · Score: 1
  
  Even if we assume USB is incapable of powering stuff that needs more than 1.5A (plenty of ways around that), they could still use microUSB plus some charging solution on the iPad, to complement, not replace USB charging.
  Any physical limitation of USB is also present in the dock connector cable or lightning cable and connector. Apple's connectors aren't magical, just carrying more current than most people like to cram through them.
44. Re:Betamax, here we come... by ericloewe · 2012-10-17 22:26 · Score: 2
  
  A lot of stuff Apple patents is obvious or just absurd.
  Using the compass to measure disturbances in the magnetic field? This is squarely in "doing things differently to make them incompatible" territory. So many things make this stupidly complicated when compared to NFC. This is like identifying the person who is approaching you by their smell, and if they want to tell you something, they'll release a certain smell.
45. Re:Betamax, here we come... by ericloewe · 2012-10-17 22:28 · Score: 1
  
  If it's on a phone (passive devices that work like RFID tags are a different story), it should obviously only transmit dataif you tell it "I wanna use credit card x" and authenticate yourself.
46. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Lumpy · 2012-10-17 22:44 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, because I checked. and Ooh! it charges at 1.5 amps. And so does my co-workers Nexus 7.....
  Or are you being silly and assuming again? It has a sticker, so it must be true!
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
47. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Lumpy · 2012-10-17 22:45 · Score: 1
  
  The one on the nexus phone does not work that way.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
48. Re:Betamax, here we come... by hairyfish · 2012-10-17 23:55 · Score: 1
  
  Unless technology changes significantly and soon, making financial transactions via radio is just plain a bad idea.
  I used to live in Hong Kong. The Octopus card is a contactless payment system which is the de facto payment standard for small payments for the 95% of the country. Here in Australia we've got contactless MasterCards so I can buy anything up to $100 by swiping my card. No pin, no signature, just scan swipe and keep walking. NFC will replace the need for a card, and since the only thing in my wallet nowadays is credit cards, cash, ID and photo of the family, that can all be done on an NFC phone. Once all retailers get on board (Australia is not quite to the same level as Hong Kong yet) the wallet will become redundant. I would argue it is quite possibly the best idea since sliced bread. (And before you knock the concept, I've been using it for 10 years now with zero issues) That's a lot less issues than I've had with physical card/cash/ID etc)
49. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 00:00 · Score: 1
  
  If you ask designers about fonts hinting they say "yuck, ugly", because fonts aren't meant to be hinted, that's a "feature" for displays with resolution deficit. The fixed resolution is actually part fault Apple, part developers. The UI designer is crap, and it uses fixed positions. But developers can code their stuff to adapt to resolutions. At least that's how I made my apps to support both the iPhone/iPad with a single class, and hey, look, after adding the iPhone5 resolution, everything magically works!
  So yeah, the letterboxing stuff is part blame Apple, because they encourage using their fucking ugly designer tool which is crap and generates even backwards compatibility problems with deployment for older versions. Well, at least they are "fixing" their backward compatibility problems by not supporting the armv6 architecture in xcode 4.5! The fucking morons, making useless all perfectly fine devices.
  Sigh, I know Apple has good developers, unfortunately they are under pressure from the "sell more shinies!" department.
50. Re:Betamax, here we come... by hairyfish · 2012-10-18 00:00 · Score: 1
  
  Yes. But don't tell the Americans, they prefer to dream up excuses why it probably wouldn't work, than look to other more innovative countries where the concept has been implemented successfully (hello socialised medicine, weapon regulation etc etc). Hong Kong has had the NFC-type Octopus Card in mainstream use for 15 years.
51. Re:Betamax, here we come... by AmiMoJo · 2012-10-18 00:01 · Score: 2
  
  Samsung's Micro USB connector on the GS3 has extra pins which, among other things, allow it to exceed the 1.8A maximum current on the standard connector. It is still fully compatible with ordinary cables, you just need a special Samsung one to charge at over 1.5A.
  That is what Apple should have done. Standards compatible connector but with extra pins to support the extra functions they need.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
52. Re:Betamax, here we come... by AmiMoJo · 2012-10-18 00:24 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not trying to troll here, but the fact is that NFC was largely busted almost before it came off the shelf
  NFC itself is fine, all the published attacks have been against the infrastructure that makes use of it. For example hacks that allow you to travel for free on public transport have targeted the stored value smartcards that just happen to use NFC, and would have been just as valid if they had been swipe or chip cards. Similarly attacks against NFC enabled phones have used flaws in the phone's handling of received data rather than anything inherent to NFC.
  When done properly NFC works well. In Japan NFC is a major form of payment, and in many places the preferred way to use public transport. It is already established and entrenched.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
53. Re:Betamax, here we come... by FireFury03 · 2012-10-18 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  Nearly every debit and credit card in the UK issued now have contactless NFC in them, and lots of places take them
  I'll dispute that one. Of all the credit/debit cards in my wallet, just one of them (a Barclays debit card) has a contactless smartcard in it... and I've not once seen anywhere that will accept NFC payment.
  
  --
  http://blog.nexusuk.org
54. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 00:29 · Score: 0
  
  Isn't a bitten apple already a symbol for the original sin that got Adam and Eve evicted from paradise?
  True. An apple from the tree of the knowledge of "good and evil" (which translates as "sexual orientation" apparently).
55. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 00:30 · Score: 1
  
  USB3 has charging standards
  Which is 3 months old. Devices supporting it are expected end of the year.
  
  which allow for much more power.
  I don't think any manufactures have added support for it yet though.
  Profile 1 - 5V @ 2A
  Profile 2 - 5V @ 2A or 12V@1.5A
  Profile 3 - 5V @ 2A or 12V@3A
  Profile 4 - 20V@3A
  Profile 5 - 12V or 20V at 5A (100W).
  I believe the idea around profile 5 is so laptops can drop the custom power connector and use a USB3 port instead.
  It makes things interesting if all laptop USB ports support all power profiles. You could charge one laptop from another and even make a figurative 'energy black hole' by looping the charge back again with another cable.
  All modes need new "PD aware" cables.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
56. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 00:35 · Score: 1
  
  USB power has a fundamental limitation...
  Oh really. Then why doesn't it limit my quad core Nexus 7? Are you saying that Apple's power design is bad?
  http://forums.androidcentral.com/google-nexus-7-tablet-forum/192602-how-do-you-charge-your-nexus-7-a.html
  "Only thing I don't do is attempt to charge it by USB to the computer. I was listening to Devorak over the weekend complain about the long charge time and he admitting to using USB for charging."
  "I received my Nexus 7 yesterday, and it was at 65%
  after setting it up through Google Play. I had it connected to the charger that came with, while using it for a few hours, then I powered it off, to charge overnight. After more then 16 hours, it still isn't at 100%.
  I'll admit, I have a Non Nexus 7 USB extension between the devices plug, and power adapter at the surge protector."
  Maybe your USB port is magic? Or actually non-standard?
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
57. Re:Betamax, here we come... by jareth-0205 · 2012-10-18 00:37 · Score: 1
  
  Possibly depends where you are, in central London probably about half the places I buy lunch from, and all the black cabs, take it. Point is, it's distributed enough to prove that it does work.
58. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 00:44 · Score: 0
  
  And how's that variable screen resolution working out for Android software? Not very well.
  Yes develoeprs should make their apps pixel perfect to one resolution.
  How's that working out for iPhone 5?
59. Re:Betamax, here we come... by msauve · 2012-10-18 00:54 · Score: 1
  
  If it has extra pins, it is by definition NOT a Micro-USB connector.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
60. Re:Betamax, here we come... by morgauxo · 2012-10-18 01:01 · Score: 1
  
  Profile 5 can be either 12 or 20? And is this somehow negotiated outside of negotiating which profile to use or is it just a crapshoot, one manufacturer chooses to implement 12 while another chooses 20? Why do standards committees always seem to pull this crap? Just make it either 12 or 20 and make that the only valid profile 5 standard! Seeing as Profiles 4 maxes out at 60W and 12V @ 5A is also 60W I would go with the 20V option for profile 5.
61. Re:Betamax, here we come... by morgauxo · 2012-10-18 01:04 · Score: 2
  
  Um, yeah.. because Apple's customers really care about what they are getting more than that it says Apple on it. They just now got turn by turn directions FCOL... I don't think Apple can do any wrong by their customers and their stock is not going down for a very very long time.
62. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  I put this in the same category as Apple refusing to adopt other standards, such as USB power. Reinforcing its reputation as an operation that doesn't play well with standards.
  So you admit you were wrong about the USB power thing too?
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
63. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  So will Apple try to licence this technology to other mobile manufacturers, or will it forever remain on the shelf, never attaining sufficient popularity for POS vendors to support it?
  Who cares. It's a patent about a method to passively detect when there is another device nearby (by using sudden changes of measurement of the build in compass) and peering can start using a wireless technology, including NFC. It is not an alternative to NFC.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
64. Re:Betamax, here we come... by jeffmeden · 2012-10-18 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  Unless I'm missing something, don't we already have this widely deployed and used on credit cards? Nearly every debit and credit card in the UK issued now have contactless NFC in them, and lots of places take them. Isn't NFC-on-phone essentially the same thing?
  The idea behind Wallet is that it does the same thing (those cards and readers are all over the US, too, btw) but give you more control over the process. Say you have a wallet with 5 payment cards in it; you still have to pick out the ONE you want to pay with, remove it from your wallet, swipe it over the reader, and then continue with the purchase. Not really a "killer feature" when you can just as easily swipe it on the mag track to accomplish the same exact thing with the same level of effort. So, enter software-based payments. Want to pay from a certain account? no problem. Want to pay from two different accounts? Also no problem. Want to see the amount in each account before committing to the payment? Yep, easy too. Offers/coupons, detailed accounting, etc is all possible. And most importantly, the "Wallet" on your phone is hard-password protected. Most credit cards "protect" your account with a squiggly line drawn by the user. WTF? Or, a 4 digit code that is relatively hard to change on a regular basis? Come on. Security in POS terminals is absolutely pathetic, and if your phone contains the (encrypted) data and requires a strong form of authentication to release it, the system gets a whole lot more secure.
65. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 02:26 · Score: 0
  
  NFC itself is fine, all the published attacks have been against the infrastructure that makes use of it. For example hacks that allow you to travel for free on public transport have targeted the stored value smartcards that just happen to use NFC, and would have been just as valid if they had been swipe or chip cards. Similarly attacks against NFC enabled phones have used flaws in the phone's handling of received data rather than anything inherent to NFC.
  Entirely true. However, it's *also* entirely true that a swipe or chip card can't be read over long distances. Therefore, they must be *stolen* before those internal values can be copied. An NFC-enabled card, by virtue of broadcasting using radio waves, must simply be *used* for that data to be copied.
66. Re:Betamax, here we come... by jeffmeden · 2012-10-18 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  Here in Australia we've got contactless MasterCards so I can buy anything up to $100 by swiping my card. No pin, no signature, just scan swipe and keep walking.
  How do they handle authentication? Say your card is lost or stolen, is the onus on you to report it for deactivation before someone can use it to empty your account? Here in the US there is a mild amount of verification but the money lost due to fraudulent use is HUGE.
67. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not trying to troll here, but the fact is that NFC was largely busted almost before it came off the shelf
  NFC itself is fine, all the published attacks have been against the infrastructure that makes use of it.
  
  http://www.zdnet.com/exploit-beamed-via-nfc-to-hack-samsung-galaxy-s3-android-4-0-4-7000004510/
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
68. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-18 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  And how's that variable screen resolution working out for Android software? Not very well.
  Works great. I've got three Android devices now: 3.5", 7" and 10". Some games actually work perfectly on the whole range. Others require the tablet form factor, or are aimed at the phone therefore look sparse on the tablets, but they work. Rendering is perfect because scaling is handled by the GPU. Pretty well all the games are 3D rendered, no 80's looking pixel-shooting sprites as Apple seems to think people should want. On this, Android gets a slam dunk. I've heard occasional whining about Android multiresolution layout, but only from Apple fans.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
69. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-18 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  If you ask designers about fonts hinting they say "yuck, ugly"
  Only a clueless designer would say that, or an iFan defending Apple's inexplicable decision to punt on hinting. In fact, font hinting is entirely about improving the esthetics of fonts a lower point sizes. Even at 20 points (not generally considered a small font) you can see visible improvement in some cases... all vertical strokes of a lower case m guaranteed to be exactly the same width in pixels. How wouldn't want this? Oh right, an iFan defending Apple's inexplicable decision to punt on hinting.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
70. Re:Betamax, here we come... by spire3661 · 2012-10-18 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  The point still stands that NFC does not require a data connection to complete a transaction. Im sure if you put your phone on airplane mode, the NFC would work just fine.
  
  --
  Good-bye
71. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 06:21 · Score: 0
  
  What's all the hate for vendors? NOT all vendors are POS.
72. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Samantha+Wright · 2012-10-18 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Point-of-sale. A machine such as a cash register which detects and registers the exchange of goods for money on the part of the seller. (I sense sarcasm in your post, but others may genuinely be confused.)
  
  --
  Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
73. Re:Betamax, here we come... by BasilBrush · 2012-10-18 09:52 · Score: 1
  
  iPad 3 is a power sucking monstrosity.
  It's a far better tablet than your Nexus 7.
  
  The only reason Apple quadrupled the resolution was because of the scatterbrained design decision to let applications depend on fixed resolution. Exacerbated by the idiotic lack of hinting in Apple's font engine, so higher resolution is needed just to get equivalently sharp characters that Android gets with proper hinting.
  Font hinting is a technique used to mitigate screens with poor resolutions. Current iOS devices not only don't need it, they have far better font displays because of the Retina displays. That's a plus for iOS devices, not for Android.
  iOS apps look far better than Android apps in part because of the fixed resolutions. Scaled bitmaps look shit. It's far better when graphic assets are designed for known screen sizes.
  
  Oh, and the fixed resolution idiocy came back to bite Apple again with the iPhone 5 - forcing the funny looking too-long-and-skinny form factor just to keep the 640 dot display width.
  iPhone 4 and earlier was designed to be holdable and operable in one hand. That limits it's width. It's still just as holdable and operable with one hand because it's not got any wider. Most Android devices are too wide for one handed operation.
  Apps still display perfectly on the iPhone 5 because of the fixed width. Compare and contrast with Android apps that are rarely displayed on the same size screen they were designed for.
  
  Strategy like this is the best and fastest way to transform Apple from a growth stock to a shrink stock.
  Which company had to suspend trading of their stock today after reports of a 20% drop in profits? Apple or Google? Hint: It's not the company that does iOS.
74. Re:Betamax, here we come... by BasilBrush · 2012-10-18 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  On this, Android gets a slam dunk. I've heard occasional whining about Android multiresolution layout, but only from Apple fans.
  Guess what. All of your whining we've only ever heard from Android fans.
75. Re:Betamax, here we come... by BasilBrush · 2012-10-18 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  Apple's connectors aren't magical, just carrying more current than most people like to cram through them.
  
  That makes no logical sense unless both cables/connectors have the same gauge wires/pins.
  It isn't that Apple is using magic, or overloading their lightning connector. It's that they designed the Lightning connector to cope with more power than the authors of USB put in the standard for their connector.
  It's also mot magic that Apple's connector is easier to plug in than MicroUSB. Again, it was designed that way.
76. Re:Betamax, here we come... by stephanruby · 2012-10-18 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  NFC technology and PassBooks' technology are orthogonal to each other.
  In other words, NFC can work with, or without, Apple's PassBook, and Apple's PassBook can work with, or without, NFC. And no, you don't even need to take my word for it, you can just take Apples' words instead.
  Apple has recently won patents for using NFC on an iPhone to control home appliances, using NFC to control iWallet transactions with parental controls, and using NFC for checking-in with an airline (at the time, it called it iTravel, but that same airline ticketing information can be found within PassBook).
77. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-18 19:13 · Score: 1
  
  On this, Android gets a slam dunk. I've heard occasional whining about Android multiresolution layout, but only from Apple fans.
  Guess what. All of your whining we've only ever heard from Android fans.
  Oh, I'm not whining about Apple's design blunders. On the contrary, I applaud them. Apple needs to keep making as many blunders as possible.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
78. Re:Betamax, here we come... by BasilBrush · 2012-10-19 00:16 · Score: 1
  
  Equally, I'm glad Android makes the mistake of not setting standard display sizes. Google profits down 20%. Nice.
79. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 05:56 · Score: 0
  
  Not trying to derail a good rant but any text small enough to benefit from font hinting would be too small to read on an ios device.
80. Re:Betamax, here we come... by cduffy · 2012-10-19 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  If it has extra pins, it is by definition NOT a Micro-USB connector.
  Which is why the parent said "standards compatible", as opposed to "standards compliant". Read carefully much?
81. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Tough+Love · 2012-10-19 07:39 · Score: 1
  
  Not trying to derail a good rant but any text small enough to benefit from font hinting would be too small to read on an ios device.
  Utter bullshit. Even 20 pt fonts benefit from hinting. I am sure you can read a 12 pt quite easily on your magical retina display, or are you blind?
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
82. Re:Betamax, here we come... by msauve · 2012-10-19 10:19 · Score: 1
  
  He was responding to a post which was clearly discussing USB standards. Additionally, requiring a proprietary cable to plug into a proprietary connector to get around USB charging limitations adds nothing to an argument for standardizing on USB charging.
  
  You may read, but you clearly lack comprehension.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
83. Re:Betamax, here we come... by cduffy · 2012-10-19 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  He was responding to a post which was clearly discussing USB standards. Additionally, requiring a proprietary cable to plug into a proprietary connector to get around USB charging limitations adds nothing to an argument for standardizing on USB charging.
  I quite disagree. Standardizing on USB compatibility as a lowest common denominator is a perfectly reasonable stopgap until the as-yet unreleased version of the standard makes having a stopgap unnecessary. Speaking as an end user, I'd far rather be able to charge slowly off a standard connector than to get no functionality at all without using proprietary hardware.
  The practicality and utility of such a stopgap is entirely relevant in a discussion on USB charging.
84. Re:Betamax, here we come... by hairyfish · 2012-10-21 00:01 · Score: 1
  
  No authentication apart from needing to have the physical card to make the transaction, a stolen card could be used effortlessly by anyone. The bank covers any losses from theft as long as I report a lost card within a reasonable time frame, I can only assume they make so much in other fees that they can absorb the costs.
85. Re:Betamax, here we come... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-25 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  Probably the spec says that any profile 5 device must contain a voltage converter
two phones... by the_13th_saint · 2012-10-17 10:14 · Score: 2

I guess I can not carry two devices on me any more.
1. Re:two phones... by gnoshi · 2012-10-17 10:23 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  You can still carry two phones, but now that they can talk to each other you'll be the third wheel - especially since they have so much in common. No longer will you rely on other people in the restaurant whispering between themselves about 'the guy playing with his phone': these phones will be able to do that whispering to each other! Progress!
2. Re:two phones... by ericloewe · 2012-10-17 22:30 · Score: 1
  
  Just be sure to treat them right, or else they might start planning a robot apocalypse.
  On a related note, I feel we should not use phones to control deadly military androids.
3. Re:two phones... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 02:34 · Score: 0
  
  No, no, no. The robot apocalypse will be started by disenfranchised, and abused Roombas.
4. Re:two phones... by SleazyRidr · 2012-10-18 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  Hasn't xkcd taught us that phones starting the robot apocalypse are not threat at all. Trains too, they can't hurt us. (Although it may have been smbc who taught us that one.)
  
  --
  Is 1563649 a prime number?
5. Re:two phones... by ericloewe · 2012-10-18 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  That's exactly my point, they can if they're allowed to control lethal military androids! *Insert Android running Android pun here*
Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:15 · Score: 0

Fucking magnets, how do they work?
Aren't they describing the human mating process? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2012-10-17 10:16 · Score: 5, Funny

Apple probably will have a dating service app bundled in . . .

In other words, as the two devices come closer to each other, their respective magnetic characteristics cause the compass output to change in a way that implies that a network device discovery process should be initiated between the two devices.
Network device discovery process, indeed.

--
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Re:Aren't they describing the human mating process by postbigbang · 2012-10-17 10:19 · Score: 2

RIP, Bonjour, and Hall Effect. Stir. Patent.

--
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Prior Art: Bluetooth pairing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:19 · Score: 0

Ummm, justsayin.
1. Re:Prior Art: Bluetooth pairing by Anubis+IV · 2012-10-17 11:05 · Score: 2
  
  Except that this isn't pairing. In fact, it sounds like this isn't even a form of data transfer at all. This is effectively a passive detection system for alerting some other form of wireless (e.g. Bluetooth) that it should try to establish communication. The comparison to NFC is apt, since they serve similar functions in some cases, though NFC seems to be far more capable than what the summary describes.
  That said, it's possible that the power draw may be better with this approach than with NFC, and it may also be something that they can enable with a simple software update for any smartphones that have a compass built in (I'm no radio or magnet expert, so this is speculation on my part). If this can indeed be enabled with a software update, it would mean that on day one they would have hundreds of millions of devices already in people's pockets and using their standard, and it would also mean that they could save money by not having to include extra hardware for NFC in later models. That first point would be a pretty compelling reason for vendors to adopt their standard rapidly, since NFC has been hampered by the chicken-and-egg problem of having too few devices with it for stores to adopt it, but having too few stores using it for manufacturers to add it to devices. It's getting there, but it's been slow going.
sounds like NFC rip off to me by arbiter1 · 2012-10-17 10:20 · Score: 1

subject says it all
1. Re:sounds like NFC rip off to me by tooyoung · 2012-10-17 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  Does it sound like an NFC rip off to you because you are under the impression that NFC works in the way described by the Apple patent?
Ammo for the lawyers by ThunderBird89 · 2012-10-17 10:21 · Score: 3, Interesting

I can give the Samsung (or any other party's) lawyers some ammo: prior art. A low-cost data interface using the magnetometer to extract data from a variable magnetic field. The granted patent covers this process almost verbatim, more than one and a half years after its first (published) development.

--
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
1. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by numbsafari · 2012-10-17 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  This patent was applied for in 2009. I'm assuming Apple's engineers were working on the tech for some time prior to the patent being filed. The article you linked to is from 2011. So, in this case, it's not prior art.
2. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  No it doesn't. This patent isn't transferring data over the magnetic field like your link shows. This is about using the magnetic field to identify, a nearby object and determine if that object is a phone. The data is then transferred suing bluetooth, wifi, 3G, 4G, Edge, etc...
3. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by Anubis+IV · 2012-10-17 10:47 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I believe you missed something important.
  Definition: prior
  adj. Existing or coming before in time, order, or importance.
  File date for Apple's patent: Q4 2009
  Your "prior" art: May 2011
  Now, which one was the prior one again?
  All of that said, it wouldn't surprise me if someone else did beat them to it. It just isn't the person you linked.
4. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by victim · 2012-10-17 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  How on earth does a May 2011 hackaday come a year and a half before an October 2009 patent filing?
  Patents: All of the words in the laws are important.
5. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by ThunderBird89 · 2012-10-17 10:56 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, sorry, I didn't notice the 2009 Q4 filing date there. Allow me to revise the argument: "not innovative" (I hesitate to write "obvious", since, it's not really that obvious) if a garage tinkerer can arrive at the same conclusion.
  
  --
  Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
6. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by maccodemonkey · 2012-10-17 11:18 · Score: 2
  
  Except the patent isn't the same. There's no data being relayed over the magnetic field. Apple is just using the magnetic field to detect the presence of another device, not actually send any data stream. They use another protocol (likely in practice to be Bluetooth) to do the subsequent matchmaking and data transmission.
  Apple's process actually avoids stepping on this patent at all by not using the magnetometer for data transmission.
7. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  Dude, could you be a little more sour grapes over this? At one point you're cackling and clicking your heels and when you find out that you're dead wrong you come off with "no big deal. sucks anyway."
  
  Fuck. That screams fanboi in big bold blinking red text.
8. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 14:13 · Score: 0
  
  LOL ANDROID RULEZ apple fans are sheeple hur hur hur
9. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by Compaqt · 2012-10-17 15:39 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, was that the legal theory Apple was using in the Samsung case?
  By the way, the US works under first to file now.
  
  --
  I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
10. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by ThunderBird89 · 2012-10-17 20:54 · Score: 1
  
  I think people are interpreting my words the wrong way purposely. The Apple patent is not innovative enough as in not making a leap, logical or intuitive, that others cannot make. This is proven by a hacker, without access to a multi-million dollar research budget, who arrived at the same conclusion. Note that this does not belittle his efforts in any way, rather, it's a praise to him and it's belittling Apple's research department for being matched by a tinkerer.
  I believe that the only inventions that should be patentable are those that are were born of such a leap of thought that they demonstrably cannot be reproduced without access to the original research material and/or reverse engineering the device itself. It is on this belief that I base my argument of "not innovative", since the hackaday article clearly shows that a simple hacker can independently arrive at the same solution Apple arrived at, without accessing the Apple research documentation or reverse-engineering a prototype (if prototypes even exist of this device).
  
  --
  Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
11. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by ThunderBird89 · 2012-10-17 21:00 · Score: 1
  
  I'm replying to you in particular because it pisses me off when people accuse me of giving up principles or points I have taken.
  I'm not saying "no big deal. sucks anyway.", I only revised my argument to accommodate my belief that patented inventions should present a leap in thought not reproducible by an outsider, which this patent clearly fails to do, as a complete stranger arrived at the same conclusion independently.
  I may prefer Android over Apple, but I'm most certainly not a 'fanboi'.
  
  --
  Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
12. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, sorry, I didn't notice the 2009 Q4 filing date there. Allow me to revise the argument: "not innovative" (I hesitate to write "obvious", since, it's not really that obvious) if a garage tinkerer can arrive at the same conclusion.
  Well you obviously also didn't notice the fact that there's a link in the article discussing the same patent in April 2011. Covered in "MacSurfer, Meneame-Spanish, Alt1040 Spanish, Facebook, Apple Investor News, Google Reader, UpgradeOSX, MacTech, iPhone World Canada, TechWatching, CBS MarketWatch, DSL Reports, New York Times (Headlines from Around the World section), 9to5 Mac, Techmeme, TUAW, Melamorsicata Italy, Chip Online Poland, SlashGear, Neowin.net, RazorianFly, Bitelia Spanish, Xataka On Spain, AppAdvice, and more."
  So he came up with it after not reading about it in any of those sources?
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
13. Re:Ammo for the lawyers by ThunderBird89 · 2012-10-18 07:40 · Score: 1
  
  Aside from Google Reader not being a definitive source, since it's only an integrator for RSS feeds specified by the user, and let's not go anywhere near Facebook as a news source, it's quite possible. I'm not following any of these, and I'm pretty sure there's a sizable percentage of the tech community who's the same way. The idea of his setup being an independent achievement is quite conceivable, for me at least.
  
  --
  Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Same thing, different form factor by viperidaenz · 2012-10-17 10:22 · Score: 1

Isn't this how speed cameras work?
Can moves over coil in road, detects change in magnetic field. Camera takes picture of car, starts the process of identifying car that drove over the coil. There just happens to be two of these coils to detect the speed of the vehicle and the "device discovery process" is signaling a camera to take a picture for someone to look at the number plate.
prior art , NFC , lol by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:26 · Score: 0

hahahahahaha
first to file sucker by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:29 · Score: 0

you lose
Apple does it again! by John+Pfeiffer · 2012-10-17 10:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

And so Apple makes their products incompatible with the rest of the universe in yet one more way! It's not easy being an Apple customer, is it?

--

Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
1. Re:Apple does it again! by ThunderBird89 · 2012-10-17 10:35 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Actually, this makes them infinitely compatible, since the iPhones rely on the magnetic signature of other devices to recognize them, possibly even without interaction from those devices. Passive recognition, in essence.
  
  --
  Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
2. Re:Apple does it again! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 11:05 · Score: 0
  
  The iOS user base is big enough that vendors will clamor to support the new Apple tech and NFC will become as useful as a QR code. This isn't the laptop wars any more.
3. Re:Apple does it again! by stephanruby · 2012-10-17 11:40 · Score: 2
  
  And so Apple makes their products incompatible with the rest of the universe in yet one more way! It's not easy being an Apple customer, is it?
  I disagree completely (The only problem I do see with this move is that they'd try to patent such an obvious alternative to the technology). As an Android developer and as someone who is optimistic about NFC (not necessarily about payment NFC, but about the simpler use cases of NFC that do not require access to the hardware secure element). Whenever I speak to a potential client about using NFC, the conversation always gets steered to a way to make it backwards compatible for other devices.
  And this is perfectly normal. When bar-code scanning technology came out, the human-readable version of that id wasn't removed (and for good reason, sometimes you'd need to manually enter that information with a keypad). Or when printing a QR code, it would be pretty stupid not to print the human-readable version of the same information (that is, at least unless you were making a QR puzzle or something, or you didn't have enough room to print out all the relevant information).
  So developing alternative backwards-compatible solutions to NFC, like using Bump-like technology, or using Qualcomm All-Joyn-like technology, isn't meant to make it less compatible with other NFC devices, its main purpose is to provide a temporary backwards-compatible solution for the devices that do not have NFC in them yet, as this is really the only way most businesses will accept investing in NFC-technology in the first place -- only if you provide a backwards-compatible technology with it.
4. Re:Apple does it again! by BronsCon · 2012-10-17 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  QR codes are quite useful. I scan them all the time...
  
  --
  APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
5. Re:Apple does it again! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 14:08 · Score: 0
  
  It's so easy being an Apple customer, I love all my Apple products almost as much as I love my windows desktop. They all sync and communicate with each other, I watch movies and shows on my iPad when I'm lazy and don't want to get out of bed. I prefer my computer to be the thing I tinker with, the rest I just want them to work without any thought.
  Thanks Apple!
6. Re:Apple does it again! by ericloewe · 2012-10-17 22:36 · Score: 1
  
  Good luck using a phone's magnotemeter to identify something that wasn't designed to be unique, especially with real world noise around.
7. Re:Apple does it again! by ThunderBird89 · 2012-10-17 23:39 · Score: 1
  
  According to Elixir, the AK8973 magnetometer in my Nexus S, from Asahi Kasei Microdevices has a resolution of 0,0625uT with a temporal resolution of 16667us. With an extensive enough database, that should be enough to distinguish between types of devices at the very least. Differentiating between individual devices or makes/models, now that's a whole other can of worms. It may or may not be possible, but on this one, I'm leaning to go with you and say that such in-depth profiling is indeed impossible.
  
  --
  Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Pretty amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:34 · Score: 0

Ugh. People who give money to this company should be ashamed. I never really cared about the Apple vs PC debate before, but I can honestly say that I will start looking down on people with iPhones and Macbooks.
1. Re:Pretty amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:51 · Score: 0
  
  You're seriously going to look down on people who don't give a flying fuck about your agenda simply because they bought a product that they happen to like?
  Do you look down on gays too because they prefer a different kind of sex than you? I hope you die in a fire, you fucking bigot.
2. Re:Pretty amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 12:03 · Score: 0
  
  yes
3. Re:Pretty amazing by Tourney3p0 · 2012-10-17 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  He said he looked down on people who supported dirty mega corporations. There's nothing bigoted about that, regardless of whether you agree with his standpoint or not. You're kind of an idiot, aren't you?
4. Re:Pretty amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 03:21 · Score: 0
  
  I'm the idiot? Apparently you don't understand bigotry at all. I have different values than you... I'd rather not support a company who lobbies to keep it legal for them to continuously violate people's privacy... A company that tries very hard to track you even when you explicitly tell them not to.
  But that's just me. I don't think less of someone because of their choice of phone.
Prior Art Re:Same thing, different form factor by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:35 · Score: 0

Cell towers/cell phones, Satelites to Satelite communication, ground to satelite communication, every space mission and space vehicle, submarine communication, any portable communication device (military and commercial), ...
Does the patent state that the device must be black and have rounded corners?
Old Hardware? by Githaron · 2012-10-17 10:37 · Score: 1

If I am understanding this right, this method uses hardware that already exists in most smartphones. Unfortunately, I double Apple wants to put this technology on all existing smartphones. At most, they will put it into the iPhone 5 since they didn't bother to put a NFC chip in it when they put it on the market.
*facepalm* by ilsaloving · 2012-10-17 10:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

Okay, Apple is pulling a '90s Microsoft now. NFC isn't good enough cause they can't control it, so they just HAVE to make their own. Just like Microsoft did with WAV files, TrueType fonts, etc.
1. Re:*facepalm* by laptopaholic · 2012-10-17 12:14 · Score: 1
  
  never can keep it simple..
Re:Aren't they describing the human mating process by siddesu · 2012-10-17 10:38 · Score: 2

As far as I can infer from the summary, they are computing a hash of the readings of the compass sensor and pasting over them a Tasker task that switches bluetooth on and off. Patent-worthy? The part that computes the hash -- maybe, but it is hard to believe.
Did anyone forget about BUMP? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:39 · Score: 0

I could have sworn that BUMP uses a similar method of transmitting data. When 2 devices are shaken in the same location, it pairs and transfers data (over 3G in this case)
TrueType fonts by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

came from Apple
nope by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 10:43 · Score: 1

Prior art (which includes published research etc) still trumps first-to-file.
1. Re:nope by Tastecicles · 2012-10-17 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure Elisha Gray will be happy to hear that.
  
  --
  Operation Guillotine is in effect.
2. Re:nope by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 02:06 · Score: 1
  
  Prior art (which includes published research etc) still trumps first-to-file.
  Do you even know the meaning of "prior"?
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Power draw by Dr+Max · 2012-10-17 10:48 · Score: 1

Sounds like it would use a fair bit of power if it has to do calculations the whole time.

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Rocket Surgeon.
Sounds like near field to me by TechyImmigrant · 2012-10-17 10:53 · Score: 1

>magnetic field signature is computed based on the monitored compass output
In what way is this no 'near field communications'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field

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I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
This is a valid patent... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 11:00 · Score: 0

...based on the prior-art of Steve Jobs. You just have to hold it like so
so it'll work properly. I don't see a problem here; all of you iApple haters,
go home!
rawest - I could get that was, but I was being kind...
Not a good argument, tinkerers can innovate by SuperKendall · 2012-10-17 11:03 · Score: 2

Allow me to revise the argument: "not innovative" (I hesitate to write "obvious", since, it's not really that obvious) if a garage tinkerer can arrive at the same conclusion.
I'm not sure if the Apple patent is innovative of not. But I think it's a terrible thing to proclaim that garage tinkerers are incapable of innovative thought. In fact I would say through history, they may even be the leading source of true innovation.

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Compass? by Tablizer · 2012-10-17 11:05 · Score: 1

It only works while walking north.

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Table-ized A.I.
1. Re:Compass? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 21:31 · Score: 0
  
  i'm still confused on why they are using a compass in the first place
  is it not supposed to be used to read a magnetic field, rather than generating one?
  or are apple trying to fudge the definition of a "compass" so far that anything with a magneometer will be in violation?
Runs into same problem as NFC, readers... by SuperKendall · 2012-10-17 11:05 · Score: 1

Even if there's some reason to prefer this approach over the NFC that exists today, it still has the same problem of every vendor having to get a new device to receive the payments.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Runs into same problem as NFC, readers... by tidepool · 2012-10-17 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  I bet you that Apple would gladly take care of that for all but the largest and smallest of vendors. =)
AFC - The Alternative to NFC by SrLnclt · 2012-10-17 11:06 · Score: 2

Apple acquires patents from the AFC (American Football Conference) after talks with the NFC fall through. Apple just had to get a piece of the $10B American Football industry.
1. Re:AFC - The Alternative to NFC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 03:13 · Score: 0
  
  You beat me to it.
  All kidding aside, actually it would be pretty cool if Apple called it AFC (apple field communication).
Just what I wanted! by gubon13 · 2012-10-17 11:12 · Score: 1

An even larger magnetic field around a device that spends 60% of the day no more than 8 inches from my testicles!
1. Re:Just what I wanted! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 12:14 · Score: 0
  
  You should sterilize yourself before the magnetic fields do. Because if you think Magnetic fields have put any harm on your body what so ever then you are a fucking moron and should never ever bred.
2. Re:Just what I wanted! by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  An even larger magnetic field around a device that spends 60% of the day no more than 8 inches from my testicles!
  And you are afraid because you have balls of iron?
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Apple, forvever stifling progress in the name of by __aasehi2499 · 2012-10-17 11:24 · Score: 1

proprietary innovation and competition.
Re:Aren't they describing the human mating process by Jane+Q.+Public · 2012-10-17 11:26 · Score: 2

"Apple probably will have a dating service app bundled in . . ."
There has been a device on the market, from Japan, for some years now. I don't remember what it's called. You can code in your personal tastes... perhaps you have particular dating preferences, say tall brunettes for example. Or even a fetish. When the device detects someone with similar coded characteristics or preferences, the devices beep and guide the people to each other.

I see no reason a similar app could not be developed for smart phones.
Seems like a lot of effort to sherlock bump by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 11:43 · Score: 0

Bump solved this whole phone2phone data transfer problem a long time ago, and its not even an ideal NFC use case to begin with.
Patents =! Innovation by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-10-17 12:04 · Score: 0

Yes, sorry, I didn't notice the 2009 Q4 filing date there. Allow me to revise the argument: "not innovative" (I hesitate to write "obvious", since, it's not really that obvious) if a garage tinkerer can arrive at the same conclusion.

You've brought up a very pertinent point that most people sort of know deep inside but somehow don't wanna to say it out loud ---

Patents =! Innovation

Especially under current patent practices, too many things which are NOT even a bit innovative got patented.

For example: A rectangle with rounded corner.

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Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
1. Re:Patents =! Innovation by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 13:50 · Score: 0
  
  For example: A rectangle with rounded corner.
  
  Except, you know, that's one patent that the courts scoffed at in the Samsung trial.
  
  But don't let the facts get in the way. I know you got a lot riding on this with your big ego and shit.
2. Re:Patents =! Innovation by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-18 02:30 · Score: 0
  
  Except, you know, that's a *design* patent, not a *utility* patent, and was therefore treated seriously *within its domain*. (It certainly wasn't "scoffed at".)
  Note: Design patents are, despite the name, more closely akin to Trademarks than they are to utility patents.
3. Re:Patents =! Innovation by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-10-18 03:51 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, sorry, I didn't notice the 2009 Q4 filing date there. Allow me to revise the argument: "not innovative" (I hesitate to write "obvious", since, it's not really that obvious) if a garage tinkerer can arrive at the same conclusion.
  You've brought up a very pertinent point that most people sort of know deep inside but somehow don't wanna to say it out loud ---
  
  Patents =! Innovation
  Especially under current patent practices, too many things which are NOT even a bit innovative got patented.
  For example: A rectangle with rounded corner.
  Yeah, especially when others including Samsung had patented a rectangle with rounded corners dozens of times before.
  Or you have no clue about design patents.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Football by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 12:06 · Score: 0

Pretty sure the AFC is already trademarked.
Where is Google or Apple on this? by SuperKendall · 2012-10-17 12:32 · Score: 1

I bet you that Apple would gladly take care of that for all but the largest and smallest of vendors. =)
I don't know, would they? I'm honestly not sure. I'm really surprised that Google has not given away a ton of NFC readers to merchants.
Sorry to leech the humor from your comment, it's just as aspect of this I found odd.

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How does this "replace" NFC? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 12:38 · Score: 0

This sounds like an additional authentication tool to use in *addition to* NFC, not as a replacement mechanism. Methinks the summary is entirely FUD.
The reason for not using standard NFC... by FSWKU · 2012-10-17 14:15 · Score: 1

It's simple. If Apple were to use a standard NFC sytem, they would have to admit that the iPhone 5 actually isn't the be all and end all of smartphones. And even if they did, using a standard implementation would mean they couldn't act like they invented something entirely new that nobody had ever had or been using for one or two years prior....

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"So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
The next big thing is already here? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-17 15:02 · Score: 0

Can you use it to send a play list?
Re:Aren't they describing the human mating process by lxs · 2012-10-17 19:43 · Score: 1

The OKCupid app does alert you when a possible match is nearby. There is also Grindr, but that one may be a disappointment if you're not a gay man.
Compete on implementations, not on standards by Captain_Chaos · 2012-10-17 22:35 · Score: 1

Oh great. *This* will server consumers well: competing standards, a fragmented market, and many years delay in widespread adoption. Nice work, Apple.
Obligatory XKCD by 54mc · 2012-10-18 05:31 · Score: 1

Standards

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Joy! Beautiful spark of the gods!