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Man Finds Roman Gold Coin Hoard Worth £100,000 With Metal Detector
An anonymous reader writes "A novice metal detector has found one of the largest roman gold coin hoards ever unearthed in the UK. From the article: 'National newspapers reported on Wednesday that the man, from Berkhamsted, had been sold a beginner’s metal detector from the town’s High Street-based Hidden History for £135. He is reported to have gone back with 40 of the “solidi” coins, dating to the last days of Roman rule in Britain, and asked: “What do I do with this?”'"
Using metal detectors without prior permission and a degree in archaeology is illegal here in Ireland, punishable by stiff fines and prison, as is wandering around the countryside with archaeological tools. Well technically the latter isn't illegal as such, but you'd better have a good reason for carrying them. Its understandable really given the quality and rarity of some of the treasures that have already been turned up I suppose, the government doesn't want looters making off with priceless artifacts to adorn their mantelpiece.
as long as he has the landowners permission he can dig ,
he cannot sell them though
if it goes as treasure trove then him and the landowner get to share the value
who where what when now?
The search was on private land. So they person that owns the land owns the stuff. Normally a farmer give permission for you to piss about in their land with a detector and if you find anything they'll give a 50/50 split.
http://www.archaeologyuk.org/ba/ba114/feat2.shtml
The Property Act 1925, and subsequent judicial rulings, state that a person owns everything which is in their land. This has been understood to mean, as Lord Renfrew put it when writing about an iron age hoard (in Loot, Legitimacy and Ownership, Duckworth 2000), that "the original owner of the land where the finds were made [is...] their rightful owner". This assumption is correct – so long as the artefacts were not removed from the land by a person authorised to do so.
as long as he has the landowners permission he can dig
With the obvious exception of land which covers scheduled monuments or Archaeological Priority Areas, where permission form English Heritage is needed (and rarely granted to individuals with metal detectors)
The search was on private land. So they person that owns the land owns the stuff
My feeling is that, in the UK, there is a reasonably large exception to this, which is where the find constitutes "treasure" for the purposes of the Treasure Act 1996 (which has been extended by the Treasure (Designation) Order 2002).
Where a find is classified as treasure, it belongs to the Crown (or its franchisee, where there is one), "subject to prior interests and rights." (s4). Ownership of the *land* is not necessarily a sufficient prior interest or right here — to override the Crown's ownership, one would need to establish a right coming from the original owner of the treasure, such as being an heir to the treasure. (Paragraph 19 to The Treasure Act 1996 Code of Practice.)
The Act includes a duty to notify, within 14 days (s8).
If you find something in the U.S., keep your mouth shut or the Government takes the "historical" find, declares the site a national park and prevents anyone but scientists from studying/looting the treasure. Maybe not bad as all that, but you gotta be careful about showing what you found. If it's not worth all that much, you can "salvage" the site, just for the love of God, don't show them any gold or jewels. www.melfisher.com for an example of a successful salvage operator, who has incidentally, had trouble salvaging gold coin from shipwrecks in the past.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
The sad thing is that by digging it up he's destroyed the archaeological context which might have shown why it was buried, when, and, to some extent, who by. The end of the Roman period in Britain is a very interesting period of history, but one about which we have far too little information. Yes, it's great that these things get found, but when you've found something, for heaven's sake leave it in the ground and alert the county archaeologists (or, technically, the coroner who will in turn alert the archaeologists, but...). You'll still get the 'treasure trove' value as the finder, and the context will get recorded.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Mostly because roman gold coins were almost as thin as paper. There is no real weight in Gold in a Roman coin.
Yes, only 4.5 grams in a solidus, or only about £150 worth of gold in each... paper thin, indeed. For some value of paper thin.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Only if the circumstances are strongly suggestive that the hoard was deliberately hidden with the expectation of later recovery by the owner -- treasure buried as part of the internment of a body are an obvious case where there is no intent to recover, hence the Sutton Hoo treasure was not treasure trove.
I seriously doubt it's worth £100,000, these stories always go over the top on the value quoting the price for mint coins in perfect condition in the existing market trading volumes. There was a recent very large hoard valued in the press at tens of millions of pounds, but the coins were so degraded they were worth only a fraction of their individual mint value, and there were so many coins in the hoard it would have depressed the market value if they had been sold.
The real worry here is the guy apparently didn't know what to do once he had found the coins, there are legal requirements to be met, and archaeological best practice to be followed. No-one should be sold a detector without first having to take a one-hour training course in their legal and moral obligations. That said, I work with responsible detectorists all the time, many are very good, but there are also many like this guy who do terrible damage.
This depends on what is found.
The first thing to consider is if you own just the land, or if you also own the Mineral Rights. In most cases as long as you own the mineral rights you can pretty much do what you want.
However, if you live within a city, you have to think about laws which might restrict digging or excavation of any sort (at least, without a permit). You might find that, for example, you're too close to a protected wetland or waterway to come in with a bulldozer, but might be ok using hand-tools. And any type of commercial use of the land might also have some restrictions on it.
Now, there is one major exception to the "pretty much do what you want" rule of thumb:
If you find Native American artifacts, burial grounds, or settlement remains, there are special rules which can apply. Certain artifacts cannot legally be owned by non-Natives without certain permits (like feathers from a Bald Eagle).
There's usually some kind of "treasure hunters" association who can give you details specific to your area.
Judas was paid 30 denarians (which are SILVER). of course if you read The Dresden Files it becomes a plot point that all 30 became "cursed".
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Lefties don't respect property rights?
The most egregious abuse of private property rights I have ever seen was in Connecticut where the right wingers took private land to make sure the shopping mall developers could make more money.
It was the liberals on the US Supreme Court that tried to stand against such illegal confiscation.
For reference:
http://www.law.pitt.edu/magazine/fall-2007/taking-homes-for-a-shopping-mall-the-abuse-of-eminent-domain-in-a-post-kelo-world
God right wingers are delusional.
Wax on, wax off baby!
It was the liberals on the US Supreme Court that tried to stand against such illegal confiscation.
Absolute hogwash. This is exactly the opposite of what happened.
Justices in the majority: Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, Breyer and Kennedy.
Dissenting justices: O'Connor, Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas