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ARM-Based Chromebooks Ready To Battle Windows 8, Tablets
Nerval's Lobster writes "Google is whipping the proverbial curtain back from its new Chromebook, which will retail for $249 and up. The Samsung-built device weighs 2.5 pounds and features an 11.6-inch screen (with 1366 x 768 resolution), backed by a 1.75GHz Samsung Exynos 5 Dual Processor. Google claims it will boot up in under 10 seconds and, depending on usage, last for 6.5 hours on one battery charge. From a product perspective, Chrome OS and its associated hardware found itself fighting a two-front battle: the first against Windows PCs and Macs, both of which could claim more robust hardware for a similar cost to the old Chromebooks (which started at $449), and the second against tablets, which offered the same degree of flexibility and connectivity for a cheaper sticker-price. By setting the cost of the new Chromebook at $249, Google continues that pricing skirmish on more favorable terms." CNET got a bit of hands-on time with the new kid, and gives it a lukewarm but positive reception.
Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are actually 2 different OSes. Just my little non-harmful nit pick.
Microsoft does not have the same OS on phone and PC. They have similar names and similar interface, but no where to close to being the same OS. I cannot run a application designed for PC on the phone (the viceversa may be possible (well, I hope it is)). I would rather see incompatible OSes have different names and purpose build UIs.
According to the Arstechnica article (http://is.gd/mj2c9D), Google are positioning this as a second PC for people who already have a PC or Mac, so the headline is just clickbait.
This and the price-point means they're pitching these to compete with cheap tablets. After all tablets are the second computer for a lot of people, using it alongside a PC or Mac, costing similar dollars in some cases (and of course, Arm-based and cloud-friendly, like tablets).
My personal feeling is that these new Chromebooks will be about as successful as the last lot. Which is not very successful.
L8r.
For £300 I got an Atom-based netbook with an 80GB SSD, 4GB RAM, slightly smaller screen and 9 hour battery life. It can run Chrome, and a lot of other things. What's the ARM bringing to the Chromebook, if it can't give far better battery life?
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
My three year old laptop outperforms this thing, has higher resolution, weighs about half a pound more, and I don't have to worry about needing internet connectivity to access EVERYTHING (since this thing comes with horrendously shitty local storage space.)
Weak, lame. No thanks.
Google has zero clue how to design much of anything. Failure after failure shows this.
So much for all of those PhDs.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
with Win8 and WP8, they both have the same kernel, so for e.g. any device drivers written for one can be used on the other directly without any changes. Although I agree it's not exactly the same OS, but the most of major OS component are same with special components as per different uses.
No? Not interested... But I'd buy one long before I'd buy any Apple product...
This hardware at this price running Linux, Android, Windows RT or even iOS would be a great bargain. What I have not yet seen in any promotion of a Chromebook is how well it works as a basic document editor when I'm *not* connected to the Cloud. If I need a lightweight mobile editing device with a permanently attached keyboard (which I cannot accidentally leave behind) then I need that portable document editor to be able to work even if the WiFI at the conference I am attending isn't working yet or is just plain overloaded. Adding a carrying case with a bluetooth keyboard, and software, to my Nexus 7 comes out way ahead Microsoft Surface. If this Chromebook ran Android, it would come out ahead. But have they really enabled Chromebooks to work effectively when detached from the network yet?
How does this compete with netbooks, such as an Acer Aspire with Windows 7 Home Edition for under $238?
No hard drive. Kinda sucks. Supports USB 3 so an external might be OK.
ARM-Based Chromebooks Ready To Battle Windows 8 and Android Tablets
Sometimes I just have to sit and scratch my head wondering at some of the things these self-destructive companies do. Chromebook is for simple, inexpensive, low-end devices. Is iPad any of those things? No. Are the new Windows 8 tablets? No. The only other devices in the same category as Chromebook are eReaders like Kindle and Nook (both running a modified version of Android), and "actual" Android Tablets like the Google Nexus. Just fragment your own market there as much as possible, Google.
Better known as 318230.
Only one can come out alive, but which? Teh Google is in the shithouse so the outcome is inevitable, and nevermind that Google's crap HW has been around more than your sister's yahoo! Microsoft shoots and scores! Teh Google floats downstream, prone and naked for all the fanboyz to see.
Android was Google's short-term response to the threat that a dominant mobile OS vendor would emerge that would use market power in that OS market in a way which would prevent Google from being able to profit from their online services (similar to how investment in Firefox was the short-term response in the web browser space.) Chrome OS is a piece of the longer-horizon, broader (e.g., not limited to "mobile") part of the response (much as the Chrome browser was in the browser space); I say "a piece of" because Google's announced a number of times that their long-term plan is to converge Android with Chrome OS in the long term.
No, Microsoft has three similar-but-different operating systems with partially overlapping functionality and confusingly similar names (Windows 8, Windows 8 RT, and Windows Phone 8) for, respectively, traditional PCs and some (i.e., x86-based) tablets, other (i.e., ARM-based) tablets, and phones.
I believe Microsoft has better chance fighting Android with Windows Phone than Google has fighting Windows with this... thing.
No touchscreen, shit for local storage, locked in to Google web apps...
Nah, I'll save my next disposable $250 for a Nexus 7.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I wish Microsoft realized that as well.
Google has zero clue how to design much of anything. Failure after failure shows this.
You must have a seriously impressive resume to legitimately claim that.
Google didn't invest in Firefox. They paid Firefox for funneling searches to them.
ESPECIALLY on a portable device that you use roughly daily, assuming it wakes from sleep quickly. Booting is for a) after software updates or b) when you know you're not going to use it for several days. And personally, I can count on my hands how many times I've done (b) in the seven years I've owned a laptop.
Besides, powering off a machine means I lose all my open windows, apps, etc., and the time it takes to create all that is much more than any boot time.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
If Firefox were not a non-profit entity, it might have been cheaper for them to invest in, rather than pay them for services. What they did it also a form of short-term investment (they pretty much were the only source of money)
(and having interviewed at G, I'm also underwhelmed in everything I've seen about them, other than their highly luxurious facilities!)
So in other words, they said "don't call us, we'll call you" and you never heard from them again.
The only good thing about the 901 is the case. :P
The 900A has abetter CPU, better (multitouch) touchpad, and they both magically fits in the 901's smaller case. My sweet hybrid runs two hours on its aging stock battery (I had one of those big-ass batteries for my 901, but the hybrid needs a 900A pack and I never got one), but same quick bootup.
Then I got an N900 and a U2010, and between the two I've lost interest in laptops that don't fit in a jacket pocket.
Microsoft does not have the same OS on phone and PC. They have similar names and similar interface, but no where to close to being the same OS. I cannot run a application designed for PC on the phone (the viceversa may be possible (well, I hope it is)). I would rather see incompatible OSes have different names and purpose build UIs.
But you can run apps bought in the windows store on phone, tablet and PC
actually, after meeting many of the employees and managers, I can honestly say, those are people that I'd not choose to work with.
the koolaid drinkage there is actually the worst I've seen in the 35+ years I've been working in software development.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
From most accounts I've seen, their willingness to pay the price they did to do that was driven both by the value of the search traffic directly funneled and by the value to them of Firefox disrupting IEs desktop browser dominance.
So Microsoft is allowing Phone apps to run on PC. So my hope (the one I referred to in my post), is infact true.
For my mom . . . who is in her 70s. Windows should not even be considered for such a demographic.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
You are confusing the end product (build) with the source code. Linux is still linux whether or not it is running on a refrigerator, router, or a workstation. The same goes for versions of Windows that are built for different hardware. Yes, they are different builds, but run on the same source kernel.
Both run on the same basic hardware. Android has more apps, local apps, a better image, and good touch control. Chrome has better multitasking, keyboard/pointer handling, and more cloudy stuff.
Is there any reason why the two can't just merge ? I want my android tablet to handle a keyboard and mouse/trackpad better (right-click, CUA-type shortcuts...), and to have 2 tiled windows on-screen (a la Win8 RT) + pip-type video, as well as to allow me to "pin" apps I want always on, and a "guest" mode. Chrome seems to have all that, but is far too cloudy for me, I need local apps and data, at least until international data roaming is priced cheaply, and 4G speed are available everywhere including in hi-speed trains.. which should take 10+ years.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
I have a better question...why would anybody want to pay $250+ for a thin client when you can get a dual core Atom and run a full OS for the same money, or spend a little more and get a Bobcat with a full OS and 1080P over HDMI?
The only real niche I can see for this is schools, no OS means no admins and no hassles, but for everybody else? There is still too much of the country where Internet is spotty and without a net connection this thing is pretty much useless.
If all you want is web surfing your better off with a Kindle or Galaxy tab, if you need a really portable laptop you're better off with a netbook so you can run any OS you want...I really just don't see much of a market for these things. Nice to see they have gotten a little more sane with the pricing, the first Chromebooks were over $500 which was just nuts. But you can buy a netbook for $250-$350 and have more space, a better CPU, and more options...maybe if they had these in the $100-$150 range I could see it, but with tablets running ICS at less than $200 I just don't see where a thin client laptop fits in the landscape.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Interesting, so would you claim Chromebook and Android run the same OS. I dont think GGP would, I would prefer not to.
No. Win Phone 8 apps run only on phones. WinRT apps run only on tablets and PCs.
Ah, in that case Chromebook and Android run the same OS too (the kernel is called Linux, you might have heard of it).
If all you want is web surfing your better off with a Kindle or Galaxy tab
Not if you're counting on using Google Docs. Typing on a tablet sucks unless you have a physical keyboard (which drives the price quite a bit higher), and a touchscreen for editing documents while sitting on a table is very uncomfortable. Also, Chromebooks have screens quite a big bigger than the 7" tablets on its price range. I could easily see myself using one of those if I had to go mobile and knew I'd always have a broadband connection available, though (as you say) I'd probably rather get an AMD C-60 and secure my offlinability as well.
Seriously, a web only laptop is about as useful as getting AIDS. Some of us who commute have jobs that rely on more than facebook and gmail.
No, GP is simply wrong.
I really don't see the problem this solves.
Not a high enough portion of my computer usage goes through Google for monitoring/monetizing?
There are not enough limited use gadgets in peoples homes?
My portable machines have too much independent capability when offline?
I am surprised Google is still pushing chromebooks. This is the first I heard of them in ages.
Mod Parent up. They share the same kernel. Thats like saying Fedora isn't Linux because it using the Redhat user space instead of the the Debian User space. They both have the Linux kernel, they are both Linux though variants of Linux user spaces. Windows8 and windows Phone 8 both have the same kernel with varying degrees of user space tools and glue bits.
It frankly doesn't make sense to say they aren't the same when they share a Kernel.
I just checked Acer's website and the range of list prices for Aspire models is $349.99 through $1,299.99.
A lot of people outside Google believe that ChromeOS was actually their ultimate goal, but they needed to release a smartphone OS before it was ready.
New things are always on the horizon
"The idea is to route all traffic and usage data through Google, so that they can spy on you even more effectively. From what I understand, these Chromebooks record all audio in the area, compress it heavily, and send the recordings to Google to be analyzed for both advertising purposes"
Just FYI, if you don't ground the aluminium foil it acts as an antenna.
This looks a lot like what companies were promising a few years ago: an inexpensive netbook with an ARM processor and Linux (or "Smartbook" as Samsung labeled them). It seemed like everybody was jumping on the bandwagon, and then before they even reached the market everybody jumped off the bandwagon and cancelled them, with weak excuses like "there's no demand" and "nobody will accept a netbook without Windows". And now the tide has turned once more, and suddenly it's a good idea again??
I've been waiting a long time with money in hand. Maybe I'll finally get to spend it. I'll wait until I see a real OS (i.e. desktop Linux distro) running on it, though. Shouldn't be that hard, right?
WHY OH WHY is this not being sold with a full OS that can run non-web-based apps? I mean, surely it wouldn't cost any more money to put Debian (or Ubuntu, or Mint, or whatever) on this thing and let us run both browser stuff *and* regular Linux apps, right? What's the rationale for limiting it?
I'm in the middle of the Google gauntlet, and I'll tell you this: they've definitely entered the phase where they're more worried about credentials instead of experience and proven track records.
They hired all the veterans early on. Now they either hire college graduates from the top schools, or ex-coworkers from Amazon, Apple, etc. In other words, the incumbents are developing a bunker mentality---hire the non-threatening kids, or your non-threatening friends.
It's far easier to get into Apple or Yahoo, the former because of the rapid expansion, and the latter because they can't afford to be too selective. At Google and even Amazon, unless you're a C++ or Java developer, you're name is mud. This is a function of the inbreeding, and the fact that so many of the new hires are young---in the last 5 years anybody coming out of the university thinks the world revolves around either C++ or Java. It's counterintuitive, because Google and Amazon are well known for using different languages. But they earned that reputation years ago. They've grown since, and those communities are backwaters, now.
what non-IT office workers normally do on their notebooks? Web, outlook, and office suite. Google covers all hardware, software, and IT infra, with much less cost, compared to typical Windows environment. Moreover, this thing is easily replacable, because nothing is in there except the OS. Yours is broken? No problem. Go get a new one from a help desk. You're fired? yours will be used by your replacement the next day.
for me, i think this is the begining of the end of MS's era in their lucrative business market.
Yeah, nice try. Why don't you TCPDUMP and check how much encrypted traffic is going off to Google?
In this day, you're either rightly paranoid or extremely low-functioning.
But nobody is talking about the elephant in the room that seriously threatens Google's mobile plans...the ISPs and network carriers. The days of unlimited Internet are quickly drawing to a close and the carriers seem to get nastier with data plans and prices every time you turn around.
For Chrome OS this is practically a death sentence as who is gonna want an OS that is constantly blowing through bandwidth and is worthless without it when their ISPs are being stingy? And as an analyst I saw today said when it comes to smartphones "Google makes their bread and butter from ads but I don't click on an ad with my smartphone unless by accident because that bandwidth costs me money"
So I just don't see how Google's plans work out long term unless they want to get into the ISP and carrier business, because without bandwidth Google is screwed and the ISPs and carriers have no desire to give more bandwidth without price hikes. This is especially bad with Chrome OS as its worthless without bandwidth and why would you pay the same price as a netbook for something that is gonna cost you MORE money on top of that when you hit your cap?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
It frankly doesn't make sense to say they aren't the same when they share a Kernel.
Indeed. Kind of like Chromebook and Android sharing a linux kernel?
Well, let's see.
They have exactly the same kernel for one thing. Then there's the fact that the metro UI component of Windows 8 and the Windows 8 phone metro component are, well exactly the same code. And of course any Windows RT app you write will run on Windows 8 and Windows 8 Phone(and the tablets for that matter). Oh and of course it's all the same code base, but aside from that they're entire different of course.
Win Phone 7 and Windows 7 were totally different, and originally Microsoft was planning on going that way with Windows Phone 8, but they didn't. Sure pure Windows 8 has a whole bunch of additional stuff in it that Windows Phone 8 doesn't, but the bit they share is the same god damned code.
Windows 8 is essentially Windows 7 with some tweaks and the metro(I know it's not called that anymore) component added on. Windows 8 RT is the metro component without the Windows 7 bit built for ARM, Windows 8 Phone is Windows 8 RT. The components they share are the same code, software you write with the new Metro UIs will run on every single device.
This battle brought to you by Webvan and Pets.com.
yup, as isp's get greedier, they will charge you for what they once gave away. 'the first one's free' and all that.
wan connectivity is NOT an assumed thing, not for a lot of people and not to the point where you can really count on it. its a luxury but who really *counts* on it while being mobile?
the cloud is a good idea when YOU control the cloud. its not so great when you depend on it and someone else controls it.
so, bandwidth costs and limits plus the disappearance of 'cloud resources' makes the whole thing pretty sketchy to bet on.
I think I'll keep my real computer with real local storage. thanks, though!
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
It tracks all your browsing history and sends it back to Google! :)
http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php
I also have a 900a! Gotta rate it as one of my best purchases. Doesn't feel flimsy, has a great matte screen, nice size. XUbuntu works pretty good on it. If I were to replace it I'd go with an Acer Aspire One 756. Chromebook? More like Cripplebook.
I thought Windows was ported to ARM and all Windows 8 devices were now based on that ARM port( not the x86 version so much ). That is Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 RT( tablets) both running the Windows 8 for ARM OS but with modified UI for the screen size and obvious APIs differences for what the device has/needs/uses like making phone calls. The fact that the Windows Phone 8 phones now have multi core support and added memory capabilities lead me to believe this was due to using the x86 ported Windows system to ARM.
So Windows Phone 8 is still a Windows CE based OS?
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I generally find that sitting on a table is very uncomfortable whether or not I am editing documents.
Kid-proof tablet..
But there is one CRUCIAL difference, in that since nearly all software on Linux has source available all it takes is one guy to compile it for whatever arch and then everybody has it, whereas the majority of Windows software is closed source and therefor you simply can't run any of that X86 software unless the owner of said software recompiles (and most likely charges you again) for that arch.
This is why Windows on ARM is stupid. With Apple people use Apple software on Apple devices so as long as Apple supports their own stuff? you're good to go. Other than MS Office frankly nobody uses much of anything made by MSFT on Windows so they are just SOL when it comes to apps. Considering the momentum that Google and Apple have, along with them burning mobile devs twice, first with WinCE and then with WinPhone 7? Frankly I wouldn't touch a Win 8 ARM device for at least a year to see if the ecosystem builds around it or if the devs will just ignore it like most did WinPhone.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Use it as a drop-and-forget device to give to those members of your family/friend circle who can't be trusted/don't need a full window install.
I know it is hard to believe but for some people, all they need is something that runs a browser and then a browser on a OS that isn't vulnerable to all the malware and other crap known to invest the Windows.
As for it being always on and peoples complaints the carriers are cutting data plans... there are lots of people who have no need for a laptop everywhere, a laptop is used NOT to carry around but for easy folding away when it isn't used so it doesn't clash with the rest of the room. Small, safe device that can be taken out and put on the kitchen counter for catching up with email, see pictures of the grandkids on facebook, play an online browser game or two and then stores away again. All for a price that won't break the bank and won't require constant support from ungrateful grandkids.
Not every new device is intended for consumption by nerds.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Android/chrome book are not running Linux. It's a fork.
I am not a Microsoft fan (search my comments) but I am a HUGE Metro/Modern/RT/Windows Store App fan. I agree with MS that the real-world metaphors shoehorned onto computers have limited their usefulness and I LOVE the total embrace of Fitt's Law.
Windows app developers choosing closed source doesn't have anything to do with Microsoft any more than Mac app developers choosing closed source has to do with Apple. Both Microsoft and Apple contribute a large amount to open source projects themselves.
Windows RT runs on x86 and x64 in addition to ARM. ARM has everything to do with energy consumption. Intel is just not getting there with x86/x64. The future is battery powered and frankly, Intel needs the competition of ARM to get them moving even if ARM can't touch raw performance of x86/x64.
If people didn't care so deeply about MS Office there wouldn't be an OpenOffice or an iWork. It's also asinine to insist that only Office keeps people on Windows. Intensely extensive hardware support, Exchange, Active Directory and many other things that other operating systems don't even try to compete with are also MASSIVE factors.
Windows on ARM already had an "ecosystem" it's called Windows. USB has delivered on its promise. Bluetooth has delivered on its promise. This is not Android, iOS world where connecting anything other than a memory card is both frowned upon and difficult/expensive.
I will give you that Windows Phone 7 was a failure by all accounts. I have an HTC Titan that I love and I am crushed that it will not receive proper system software support but I understand why Microsoft did it. There is a level of hardware features that every WP device must have, in both WP7 and 8. This lets Microsoft declare things like taking pictures on Windows Phone is both faster and easier and not mean "just the Nexus Windows Phone". Live tiles blow notifications and most widgets away in my opinion and you can search my posts on XDA under Dragon_76 to see how long and extensively I have used Android (I had a G1 and left Android Phones at Moto Atrix).
Windows 8 is going to make everyone ask why Apple didn't do the same thing with Mac OS/iOS.
"I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!"
-Jennifer Saunders as Edina Monsoon
Actually, we don't know the answer to that yet either way. In the end it will most likely be up to what a developer does and if MS links the stores together.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-share-lots-of-code-nt-kernel/
"I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!"
-Jennifer Saunders as Edina Monsoon
Also the weight in pounds sucks. They seen to target Americans who thing smaller weight numbers are actually lighter, even if tricky standards are used. 2.5 pounds is ca. 1134 gram. So it is as heavy as 1 liter of milk and 1 standard Russian shot of vodka. They should have said it is 1.1 Kg instead.
~ Best man at your service.
Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 share the same kernel components (they call it Shared Windows Core). That really is internal part of the OS usually inaccessible directly to 3rd party developers, who instead use various user-mode APIs built on top (such as Win32, WinRT etc). The same is curiously with Android and ChromeOS - both share the Linux kernel with different user-mode APIs.
Linux is actually a kernel. The OS is called GNU Linux with various flavors called distributives (such as Ubuntu).
what non-IT office workers normally do on their notebooks? Web, outlook, and office suite.
That's what I do on my Chromebook. I use my desktop to write code, but the Chromebook is what I cart around to meetings, take to the couch to work on design docs and spreadsheets, do e-mail on, do presentations, etc. Works great. Especially since it has 3G and so works lots of places a normal laptop wouldn't.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
The next time your are fixing some relative's or co-worker's machine .. think about if maybe everyone would be better off if they had a chromebook.
The point of these things is that, if you just limit things to the web, you can make a very secure, reliable, no-brainer type machine.
It can't do everything, but jeez, it sure can do a lot of what most regular people use their computers for, and that's just going to become more with HTML5 et al. Or a business could hand them out for employees who need some web app to do their jobs. You just have your login to the app (google hosted, or somebody else .. it all works), and if they break the machine, you just hand them another one. Data is cached on the device, but the real data is the cloud. The software on the device is designed deeply to be very secure (easier since it does so much less) so it should be much less vulnerable to "infection" the way a more general computers are.
Android and iOS are trying to not be vulnerable to malware, but it's so much harder when stuff can get installed. The chromebook does not have a native software "install" .. it's just the web, so it's a lot easier to nail down right.
Personally to me it looks like more google floundering, they really are struggling to get more than just search advertising. Android has succeeded but failed to bring in much revenue. This is really just another lackluster thin client, Even MS has a better option with Windows to Go, especially with the "bring your own device" fad that is currently rampant. If anything this looks more like google showing they really don't get it.
lol, isn't that a little light for a standard Russian vodka shot?
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
right but don't lots of the same ISV APIs shared across phone, tablet and desktop now that Microsoft is pushing the UI formerly known as Metro, across all devices? That would mean the core OS is the same and so are a somewhat large chunk of the developer APIs and all that which is there to support it.
I'm thinking less like Android which really does use mostly the kernel and everything else is in the Dalvik JVM, and more like Meego. ie Android has little in common with desktop GNU/Linux while Meego had lots more in common.
If it really is just a Windows kernel/core and the APIs are so very different between the devices, I don't see why Microsoft would be pushing developers to Metro apps. Sure desktop Windows has all the included Win32 old stuff but we're talking the cross device stuff here.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
When did you last look? The delta between linus' tree and android keeps gettings smaller or at least staying the same. That's not really the definition of fork...
What does a chromebook do? I'm not being mean. I'd like to know. Google's site is as mysterious as Mitt Romney's plethora of 5 point plans. What software will run on it. What can I expect to use in common with the computer on my desk?
Is it just a bigger tablet with an external keyboard?
MS is maintaining 3 different os's then.
or more properly put 6, since the word was maintaining, windows 8 rt, windows 8 x86, windows phone 8, windows phone 7.x and windows 7(it's not discontinued/dead).. and I'm not totally sure but I believe they maintain windows CE for embedded use too, so that's 6.
or more aptly put 7, since xbox OS should count as one too.
not to mention if you count Surface(the old one, that means the table) too as a separate os.
just because you unify some branding doesn't make them the same OS.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
we know the same app won't run as it is on both.
you can share some code and some of the ui definitions.
so it's more like saying that you can run the same app on iOS, android and BeOS - you sure can if the developer does porting and the developer can share a lot of code between the 3 platforms.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
You're telling me that you don't MITM your own SSL connections?
Amateur.
On top of that, can I wipe whatever Google OS it is running and install Debian or Red-Hat or Ubuntu? What about open-source GPU drivers? We can get that for Intel (good drivers) and AMD (OK drivers) and even some Nvidia GPUs (still experimental) on normal laptops. While Linux drivers for GPUs used in ARM machines are mostly closed source crap.
--Coder
I read rumors on the net that on the year when a lot of manufacturers announced ARM netbooks, Microsoft went and threatened them with cutting Windows licensing (or something) if they start selling those. So none of these devices actually went to market. People even saw things like Microsoft reps visiting manufacturer's booths in an expo, and ARM netbooks disappearing from the stands soon after.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push
You can probably find more.
--Coder
It hasn't captured any interest and it actively conflicts with Android in the tablet space. The best bits should be moved into Android and the rest should be done away with.
I believe Microsoft, at least the ones building WinRT and the management, do realize the differences.
But do they want the customer to realize it as well? You know, "not compatible with x86 software", or "not compatible with traditional Windows software" are not exactly great selling points, at least, not without a somewhat lengthy explanation and until the MS store has a healthy collection of apps.
If I were Microsoft, I wouldn't promote the Surface and WinRT "too much" at the moment (may not even launch, but that's another story). The backlash and returns from people who're confused can cause troublesome damages.
Cheers.
So you have a history (windows mobile, windows phone 7) of products with the same name that are totally incompatible...
And now you have a system which is mostly compatible at the source code level, where applications are predominantly distributed without source...
And all this, tied to a brand that is generally considered to be poor quality but tolerated due to its ubiquity, only its trying to enter markets where existing products dominate and those products generally have a much better reputation.
This is just going to frustrate and anger users
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
My ISP (cable and wireless) is constantly getting cheaper while offering more bandwidth (they do not only promise but deliver more).
But hey, I am not living in the US ... my phone's bandwidth will supersede my cable subscription this year by a 5 fold (LTE for approx US 80/month).
Best
-S
no OS means no admins and no hassles
I think you severely underestimate how many people want this.
The days of putting out unusable, buggy crap and claiming it's a useful tool are finally drawing to a close now that there's more competition and the general population is becoming more technologically adept.
Why does it look just like a MacBook ?
Faux alu body, white text on black keys, power button in exactly the
same place, Trackpad with no buttons, bevel cut out for opening the lid exactly
the same.
I know imitation is the sincerest for of flattery, but isn't this taking it a bit too far?
-court case pending
Yep betting on the cloud is the WRONG move ATM, not with the ISPs and carriers playing "let's fuck the consumer!" with price hikes and diminishing caps. I think this will also bite Win 8 in the ass, MSFT built it around phoning home and social media and both of which won't work without bandwidth.
So with the economy in the crapper and network prices going nowhere but up Google should be worried, because when every ad costs you you'll be more likely to block and Chrome OS? A non starter I'm betting.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I agree w/ this one. Windows NT on RISC - Alpha & MIPS - should have taught Microsoft all that was there to learn. The Alpha at least had the performance advantage, while the MIPS, had SGI supported NT on MIPS more whole-heartedly like Irix, could have been a major visualization platform for Windows.
But w/ ARM, there is no such advantage. Here, battery power, while useful, would be less compelling, b'cos if it was really serious, one would look @ tablets. Yeah, they may be cheaper, but so is Linux, and we can see where that went. Google on the other hand is doing the smart thing by preferring ARM to x64, so that there will be no point in uninstalling Linux and installing ChromeOS in its place.
Incidentally, which Linux is ChromeOS based on? Debian? Fedora? Ubuntu? Gentoo? Slackware? Which one?
What do you mean I can't play the Old Republic on my phone? It has Windows on it!
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
But you just proved my point, even you admit you'd be more likely to get a C-60 Bobcat and have offline and online from one unit, instead of being stuck with a thin client in a laptop form factor.
BTW I have one of the 12 inch AMD E-350 EEE netbooks and I have to say i just love the thing. i get nearly 6 hours on a battery, it only weighs 2.5 pounds, nice clear screen, and does 1080p over HDMI so I can just plug it into a TV and use it for an HTPC, its nice.
Other than schools though I just don't see the selling point of Chromebooks, I mean how many are 100% within WiFi range 24/7/365? With my netbook if I have to set while my mom is in the doctor's office and there is no net, no problem, I even took mine camping so I could have my tunes and just charged it off the 12v adapter. With the ChomeBook though if I didn't have a net connection I'd be SOL and paying $250 for a device that limited when i could buy a new Atom dual for that is just nuts.
BTW I don't know if you are in the USA or not but if you are and want one of those netbooks cheap just keep an eye on this site because they get different models every day and you can get some crazy deals. I had a couple of friends buy from there, one got a dual core Atom Dell mini from there for $120 and it was like new, another waited and got an AMD C-60 Acer for $149 which other than a scratch on the bottom of the thing you couldn't tell wasn't new.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Have you tried searching amazong for tablet keyboard? There's a pretty good selection of keyboards in the 7-12$ range. Of course you might want to pay 120$ to get one for Surface.
If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
And of course any Windows RT app you write will run on Windows 8 and Windows 8 Phone(and the tablets for that matter).
ONLY if it's a .NET app. If you write a C++ app with a WinRT interface, it's only going to run on the platform it's compiled for (although the developer CAN compile multiple versions of it).
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Visually this Chromebook is a pretty egregious copy of the Macbook Air. On a side note, the Surface is also a pretty shameless copy of the iPad. I'm not saying it's right that Apple sues them, but the designers who drew this thing up should be ashamed of themselves. If I wanted an Apple product I would buy one, the lack of originality these companies are showing is robbing us of possible innovations. Sources: I'm an Industrial Designer
The people who hate both Microsoft and Apple. and love Google and/or Linux - that's the market I see for this. Maybe this will succeed where System 76 didn't. Speaking of which, companies like System 76 that want to promote Linux, or others that want to promote BSD - they too should take this ARM route, so that the PCs will be cheaper (Google is mainly charging for its brand, just like Apple & Microsoft do) and they will run only Linux or BSD, but not Windows. I doubt that Windows RT will run on any ARM - just the ones Microsoft certifies.
Of course I "proved" your point, I was agreeing with you (the "as you say" part is a huge tell).
To further clarify what I said: I could easily see myself using it, since I already rely on Google Docs and web services for most of my needs. However, it's too expensive to compete with similarly priced C-60s unless you have some sort of utopian internet availability. A C-60 would also have way more processing power, not to mention x86 compatibility. Right now, it's nuts.
Unfortunately (at least when it comes to purchasing technology), I'm not in the US. I've been wanting a C-60 for quite come time, now, but I think I'm going with a desktop version at 1.6GHz. Seems like it would be great as a file server/HTPC and is extremely cheaper than the netbook version.
Come to think of it, maybe that's how Google should have approached the Chromebook: sell it as a uATX board. Desktops don't usually suffer from lack of internet availability and its pricing would then be greatly reduced. Most desktops are now only internet access points for people, anyway, and the Chromebook would be a dream to all geeks who have to support friends and family who only want to access the internet but manage to keep breaking their OSs in the process.
I agree. We have one linux laptop on the cocktail table that does nothing but browse the internet and create google docs. We don't need big local storage or an OS with a large security footprint. That is the machine we throw in a backpack when we travel.
no OS means no admins and no hassles,...
As somebody who has worked in an environment that has had a thin client deployment for a number of years, let me just say this,...
Ha hah ha he he ehe eh ho.... oh, can't breathe....he he he...
One might think that a thin client is less work but in reality, they end up being even more work and a greater risk than just managing images for desktops. Not only do the servers and network all just add more possible points of failure, but you're in a situation where if one computer has an issue, a number of computers possibly being all of them have problems. Add in that they, for some reason, seem to cost just as much as desktop computer (not including servers), and they really seem to lose all advantages.
A LOT of office workers need to run some specific software, either in house developed, 3rd party solutions, or off the shelf products that expect to be installed on a real computer, not just email, and a document editor.
And MS is pushing really hard in the cloud computing space. There is no reason they couldn't roll out a similar product built around office 365.
There need to be bandwidth "caps", and ISP's need to compete over them, and there needs to be actual competition. That is the only way to get neutrality. Otherwise it will always be, "unlimited, but you can't X or we permaban you," which is much worse for the Internet than no unlimited plans. (X could be run servers, stream audio, share with neighbors fon.com-style, use the video feature in GTalk, bittorrent, netflix)
I thought this was well understood now that people knew the "unlimited" plans have always had semi-secret caps associated with them? With vzw LTE you can blow through your 10GByte in 10 minutes. gee, thanks, so glad it's fast. Can we drop this pretense already?
Why google is maintaining 2 different OSes? Microsoft has gone in different direction to make same OS for its phone, Table and PC.
Excuse me, but which Googlers modded down that fair question? Not that I am any fan of Microsoft, quite the contrary, but I am very definitely not a fan of evil Googlers. At least, Microsofties are unabashedly evil.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Google's announced a number of times that their long-term plan is to converge Android with Chrome OS in the long term.
If so, what's the holdup? It should be abundantly clear by now that the market for a browser-only laptop is vanishingly small. To sell Chromebook, Google needs to ship the Chromebook with Android and add a touchscreen so that the device is not perceived as inferior to a tablet + bluetooth keyboard. It's really time to stop beating the dead cloud-only horse.
Why ship Chromebook with Android? Not for any technical reason... KDE would be a better choice technically... but because the market knows Android and wants it.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
who is gonna want an OS that is constantly blowing through bandwidth and is worthless without it when their ISPs are being stingy
And who wants a laptop that is basically a brick when the net connection drops?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Typing on a tablet sucks unless you have a physical keyboard (which drives the price quite a bit higher)
Oh yeah, 25 bucks higher.
That's gotta hurt.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
The major thought process will be like this: oooh, shiny. thin, recognizable brand name, give me three.
Maybe what you said would make sense in an alternate universe where linux was king of the desktop.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Look up the E350 barebones friend, don't know if its the same there but here those sell for around $130 USD with a nice HTPC style case and PSU. I've built a couple of them for use as HTPCs and office boxes and the owners are quite happy, you are talking a max of less than 20w under load, full 1080P over HDMI, hell they even have a PCIe slot in case you want to upgrade the graphics later. Its pretty nice as an HTPC but just remember to get the fastest RAM the board supports as it has shared memory so the RAM speed counts. i changed the 2Gb of 1066 for 2 4Gb sticks of 1333 in my EEE and I could tell a pretty big difference, games that would be laggy before play nice now.
But one thing we seem to agree on is the price, it just makes NO sense! Why would anyone pay the same price as a netbook for something that isn't as good? When they first announced Chrome OS I thought it would be a game changer, I thought they'd sell them in the $100-$150 range and just take over the low end market, but the price is simply too high, you'd be better off with a netbook or a Kindle as with both of those they are at least useful offline.
Anyway good luck on your HTPC, I can say they are pretty sweet for the task and if you don't want to pay for Windows OpenELEC has a build just for the AMD Fusion chips, its got the XBMC UI and is actually pretty nice.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Not to mention you can't even do anything to "unbrick" when there is no net, you are just SOL. And who thought $250 was a good price? They sell the new Atom dual core netbooks for that at Walmart and those have a fully functional OS and can have the OS changed for anything you want.
I honestly thought Google was gonna slaughter when I heard about Chrome OS, I thought they'd price it in the $100 range and just wipe out the low end. instead they first tried selling it for more than a quad AMD laptop! and now they are pricing it even with the Atom which gives you more hard drive space,more features, and most importantly can run anything you want off and online. I just wonder how long it will be before these things end up on Woot! because that price has fail written all over it.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Unfortunately, the E-350 ends up costing more than a Celeron G530 around here, which is a bit insane. Processors are exempt from import taxes, but MBs and other components aren't, and the E-350 isn't considered a processor and pays the full tax (on the upside, AMD APUs pay none). So it's either the C-60 or, if I go any higher, I'd be crazy not to get more for my money and get a cheap Intel. Especially considering I plan on running Linux (though I'm taking a look at OpenELEC now, thank you for the tip).
Thought you were joking but then I read this...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3197703&cid=41710195
I sincerely hope it's a joke.
Cheers.
In actuality, when Microsoft talks about "C++ being a first class citizen" they actually mean managed C++ which compiles into the .NET CLR. Using unmanaged C++ is an option, but it's definitely about a third class citizen.
I just don't see how Google's plans work out long term unless they want to get into the ISP and carrier business
Maybe they plan to expand on the fibre to the home services they describe here.
When you combine their move into the last mile physical connection business, with their ties to US government intelligence agencies, I can't begin to understand how they are defining the term "evil" in item 6 on their philosophy page, "You can make money without doing evil." On that page, they seem to want to define evil as not correctly labeling advertising. I think most people have a different definition.
Some examples.
I guess if they changed their name to Panopticon, it would be a little too obvious. And, they might have to fight facebook for it.
file:
I haven't seen one mention of it in this discussion.
It's Google's answer to the ipad, Kindle, and others. There are even sites
dedicated to them http://www.xoomforums.com/forum/ yet not one
mention of one. Me thinks the market is saturated in many tablet related areas
The Xoom being better (as I see it) than the Chromebook but at twice the price (retail).
I do like the fact the Chromebook will play just about any media (it claims all).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Xoom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook
(Wikipedia hasn't been updated)
Yes, I have a Motorola Xoom, I tell folks it's an ipad as it stops the questioning looks.
Keyboard? I have a BlueTooth keyboard from some second hand store, by themselves take
up very little space.
Not to mention you can't even do anything to "unbrick" when there is no net, you are just SOL.
I don't have one, but my understanding is that you can still access and edit Google Drive (and thus all your docs) when disconnected from the net - it just won't update the "cloud" until you reconnect.
They sell the new Atom dual core netbooks for that at Walmart and those have a fully functional OS and can have the OS changed for anything you want.
Yeah, but the Acer at Walmart has a crappier screen (1024x600 vs 1366x768) and is slightly heavier. It also comes with less RAM. You are right, it's not going to wipe out the low end - but it's also a pretty good deal, hardware-wise.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Not only does Google "want to get into" the ISP business, Google is in the ISP business, with the leading edge of that being the Google Fiber deployment in Kansas City. As far as wireless, there is a reason that Google was one of the big movers pushing the FCC to open up spectrum "white spaces" left by the digital TV conversion to data use, and (successfully) competed to become one of the "white spaces" administrators when the FCC did decide to open that spectrum.
Its a good price for the core of the target market, which is people who are committed to Google's web-based app ecosystem. The $249 price includes, after all, $119.76 worth of storage in Google Drive (100GB @ 4.99/mo * 12 mo.)
What hold up? The plan is proceeding apace. I wouldn't really expect full integration to occur until sometime after Portable Native Client is in general release in Chrome (I was actually a bit surprised they went with ARM-based Chromebooks before that.)
They may need that to sell Chromebook to you, but they may be happy enough not doing that. They are probably quite happy to continue selling Android tablets -- including ones that people will by bluetooth keyboards for -- to people who prefer them to Chromebooks.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it. -- Upton Sinclair
Secretly someone or many at MS know it, but don't want it to be commonly known.
The Chromebook is great but you have to appreciate it for what it is rather that what it isn't. It is a simple simple, low cost device that most people can accomplish 99% of their normal web tasks on. Browsing the web, email, google docs, facebook etc. It is not a gaming machine or a music device or a graphics workstation. It's a $250 dollar web appliance you can throw in the trunk of your car and take everywhere with you. It requires no maintenance, updating, virus scanning or backups. All your files are synced to your google account so you could smash it to pieces if you wanted and when you log onto another Cromebook you pick up exactly where you left off. I toss mine in the trunk of my car so I have access to a computer and ssh everywhere I go. I'd rather this low cost device get stolen rather than my $1,700 MacBook. My old CR48 Chromebook is the first computer I grab when I'm watching TV or need to shoot off a quick email. I'm much rather boot this thing up in 8 seconds and type away rather than send an email on my phone, or iPad or wait for my laptop to boot. It augments your normal computing environment, it's not a replacement for it.
My comment was a joke, though I wouldn't mind an app to send out my companions while I'm not sitting at my computer...
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.