Internet Providers To Begin Warning Customers Who Pirate Content

beltsbear writes "Welcome to the future that you warned us about. Starting soon, Verizon, Comcast and others will work with the Center for Copyright Information to reduce piracy. Customers thought to be pirating will receive alerts. 'The progressive series of alerts is designed to make consumers aware of activity that has occurred using their Internet accounts, educate them on how they can prevent such activity from happening again,' If a customer feels they are being wrongly accused, they can ask for a review, which will cost them $35, according to the Verge."

Comments

I should not have to pay $35

[Skapare]

... if I didn't do anything wrong. THEY should first prove I did.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Penguinisto]

C'mon - Verizon and Comcast likely wrote that provision themselves. After all, why treat it as a procedure when you can treat it as a profit center?

Just wait until they feel that profits aren't high enough...

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[RanCossack]

They don't even have to raise the fee; that's the best part of this, to them. They can just increase profit by going "Oh, let's pick accounts at random and accuse them of piracy."

35 dollars later, they say "oh, our bad", and they keep the money.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Nyder]

C'mon - Verizon and Comcast likely wrote that provision themselves. After all, why treat it as a procedure when you can treat it as a profit center?

Just wait until they feel that profits aren't high enough...

They are a corporation, profits are never high enough...

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[girlintraining]

C'mon - Verizon and Comcast likely wrote that provision themselves. After all, why treat it as a procedure when you can treat it as a profit center?

I've received about a dozen of these alerts. You know what I do with them? right-click... delete. Go ahead, tell me I'm pirating. Go ahead, threaten me. They once sent me a very intimidating "final notice" saying they were going to cut off my internet. It was the only one I replied to -- via a certified letter. All it had in it was a print out of the e-mail and the following word: "Nuts."

It's been four months and several terabytes of pirated material. I haven't heard a peep from them. Here's the truth guys: Ignore, ignore, ignore. They're trying to use fear to motivate people because they know the "problem" is so widespread that it would take tens of millions of lawyers working around the clock and an equal number of judges, experts, juries, etc., at a cost of many billions of dollars to go after everyone legally. Ignore your ISPs until they actually turn off your internet. Then... complain to your public utilities commissioner and legislators and explain how they're engaging in vigilante justice, it's unamerican, etc. Be creative, but above all, be loud, and send your complaints on something with a stamp on it, not an e-mail. Or use a fax machine. That shit gets read, unlike e-mails. We are legion. Don't forget that: Hundreds of millions of us. A few dozen of them. Even if they have machine guns and tanks, they're still fucked.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Jane Q. Public]

Bravo.

For once, a post I can agree with 100%.

The contract I signed with them has no provision for "punishment" based on some 3rd-party's say-so. If they tried to throttle me or cut me off, that is fraud or at least breach of contract.

They can threaten all they like, but I'd bet you a lot their lawyers told them they'd damned well better stop short of actually taking any action.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't ignore the first letter. I'd make life a living hell for the sender.

But then, I'm not pirating several terabytes of pirated material and then bragging about it on an internet website while also giving free (if dubious) legal advice and essentially saying "the system is broken so loot everything". Guess that gives me something of a moral high ground if I do get a letter.

You go on being legion. I'd rather be an individual than part of your mob.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Mitreya]

I should not have to pay ... if I didn't do anything wrong. THEY should first prove I did.

For the consumers that are reluctant to pay $35 to be reviewed and cleared, they will soon have $1000 (per file) fee for downloading content they consider illegal. And by then the new Terms and Conditions mandatory arbitration clause will be in place if it isn't already, so you'll have no recourse - and occasional $35 "compliance" surcharge will be a wise choice. If you never pay the fee, an occasional "mistake" may happen, where you are charged for a couple of illegal files even if you don't download anything (again, see the new arbitration clause).

I know someone is plotting this, because it will make money and I do not remember ever having a choice of internet provider (maybe 2 options at most) regardless of where I lived in the past 10-12 years.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[girlintraining]

I wouldn't ignore the first letter. I'd make life a living hell for the sender.

It's hard to make life a living hell for an entity that sold its soul a long time ago. I ignore all letters unless served to me by the sheriff as a matter of course. In this society, the threat of legal action usually shuts people up. I'm something of an exception to the rule though -- until legal action actually commences, I really don't give a fuck. Remember, there's plenty of time to settle or negotiate, it's not like the legal process is fast.

But then, I'm not pirating several terabytes of pirated material and then bragging about it on an internet website while also giving free (if dubious) legal advice and essentially saying "the system is broken so loot everything".

While I am bragging about it on an internet website, fair enough, nothing I say here is under oath. I can lie all I want; as long as the words themselves aren't inciting people to violence or in some way providing a clear and present danger to public safety. "Download ALL the stuffs!" doesn't exactly make my list of Things People Say That Reasonable People Get Scared About. Actually, it makes the Things People Say Everyday That Only a Very Very Very Super Very Tiny Number Of People Have a Problem With list... and that's about it.

Guess that gives me something of a moral high ground if I do get a letter.

You had the moral high ground from day one. Fair use used to be legal. I could share music and videos with you freely -- even copies, even copies of copies, or copies of copies of copies. The operative word is of course 'free'. I can't charge you for it, and you can't make a profit off it. But as long as you stayed within those boundaries, it was all good. And the reason for this was that a lot of our music, media, movies, art, etc., is part of our collective culture. My sister made a reference to the Jetsons the other day -- despite never having actually seen an episode of it. That's part of our culture -- it's symbolism for something about us. The future, flying cars, whatever, it's part of who we are. There are tens of thousands of things just like that, songs "everybody" knows. I have yet to meet a girl who can't recite the lyrics to Sweet Dreams (are made of these), etc. Fair use isn't a cheat -- it's an essential part of retaining and spreading our culture. Locking it up and saying only the wealthy can afford it is wrong. It may be legal, but it's wrong. It will always be wrong. There is no way in which a moral and ethical person can conclude it's anything but wrong.

Legal does not mean right, and illegal does not mean wrong. I do what's right, what I think is fair, and act within the standards of my community, not some arbitrary standard set out by some rich fucker in a suit who thinks he has a say. Listen, rich fucker, you don't. You never did. All the money in the world can buy you corrupt laws and public officials and a lot of influence, but it can't buy you me.

I am free. So take your laws, your lawsuits, your bullshit ideology -- and literally fuck yourself with them. And I do mean literally... print them out on a sheet of paper, and shove it up your goddamned ass. Are we clear here? This isn't about me being part of a "mob", this is about me being a proud member of my community. I am proud of my values, and I know these are values that the majority of people in my community, in the country, in the world, support and agree with. That is what I mean when I say "we are legion."

You cannot threaten or cajoule me into doing something I feel is wrong. That's what standing up for what you believe in means, and I'll do it every time. They got my number, they know where I live... anytime they feel like coming over and trying to force their ideas onto me, I'm up for it. I'm here, ready, waiting. I'm not hiding. I'll fight... but I won't go looking for one. And I encourage you to do the same. Any fool can make a law, and any fool will mind it. You do what's right, that's all any moral, ethical, member of your community can ask... the law... doesn't matter.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[flimflammer]

I don't think so. The ISPs will do everything they can short of disconnecting the user or harming their connection because all that will do is result in losing customers. ISPs only put up with this shit as much as they do because it's not losing them business. If they have to start giving up customers, you damn well better believe the ISPs are going to start fighting, kicking and screaming.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[girlintraining]

If they have to start giving up customers, you damn well better believe the ISPs are going to start fighting, kicking and screaming.

Not exactly. I have yet to see very many companies not roll over and play dead at the threat of legal action. The only time they ever do is when complying with the demand costs them more money than the retainer's fee. Someone sat down in some meeting room and decided with a few other people to go ahead and do this. That someone is very high up in the company, and it would take them hemmoraging cash before they swallowed their pride. Techies always think about the system, never about the people in it. No, they'll lose customers left and right, bleeding them out, until the shareholders ask why earnings are down. Then, and only at that point, will Pridey McPrides-a-lot reconsider.

And here's the thing: If all the other ISPs in your area decide to do the same thing (collusion!), they're going to figure there's not much incentive. You may switch to a competitor, but you'll still have the same problem there, and so on and so on, until you're out of the market. All these ISPs have been told nobody will go without internet -- and all internet providers have to "be in it together". But, if people do start dropping off, and not buying internet at all, the entire industry will convulse and retaliate then.

Not that I expect that to happen. I do, however, expect and ask that anyone who gets their internet shut off file lawsuits against the company. It does not matter if it's justified. It does not matter if you think you can win or not. File one. Everybody, file a lawsuit. File many lawsuits if you can. Keep them busy, keep them in court, and most importantly: Cost them money. And cost the courts time. Because they're overloaded, it takes months to get in on a civil action -- and lawmakers and judges will sit up and take notice when their dockets start filling up with the same thing over and over again. You hammer them, over and over, force them to spend money defending themselves. And at the same time -- make sure your assets are safe. Ask your family to take the title to the car, etc., once you file the lawsuit. Make sure you have nothing they can take away from you.

Kick those fuckers in the balls so hard their kids are born dizzy. That's how you win. And trust me: It works. If even 1% of the population contested their speeding tickets, the court system would implode just on that. I mean, as in, smoking crater of ruin. I'm not asking everyone who gets a letter to do something: I'm asking 1% of you to. If you can, if you're in a position to put up a fight... do it. Stand up for something.

This is how you fight authority... and win.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[rgbrenner]

Fair use used to be legal. I could share music and videos with you freely -- even copies, even copies of copies, or copies of copies of copies. The operative word is of course 'free'. I can't charge you for it, and you can't make a profit off it. But as long as you stayed within those boundaries, it was all good.

You do NOT get to make shit up. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Look, I get it... you're pirating material.. and you're telling yourself all day long, it's ok... this *used* to be legal.

But it's NOT true. If you want to have a reasonable discussion about copyright law.. then YOU NEED TO STICK TO THE FACTS.

The first copyright law was the The Statute of Anne in 1709 in Britain. It did not apply to the colonies. The first copyright act in the US was the US Copyright Act of 1790.. it was similar to the Statute of Anne. http://www.copyright.gov/history/1790act.pdf

That from and after the passing of this act, the author and
authors of any map, chart, book or books already printed ... shall have the sole right and
liberty of printing, reprinting, publishing and vending such map, chart, book or books, for the
term of fourteen years ...

And be it further enacted, That if any other person or persons, from and after the
recording the title of any map, chart, book or books, and publishing the same as aforesaid, and
within the times limited and granted by this act, shall print, reprint, publish, or import, or cause
to be printed, reprinted, published, or imported from any foreign Kingdom or State, any copy or
copies of such map, chart, book or books, without the consent of the author or proprietor thereof,
first had and obtained in writing, signed in the presence of two or more credible witnesses; or
knowing the same to be so printed, reprinted, or imported, shall publish, sell, or expose to sale,
or cause to be published, sold or exposed to sale, any copy of such map, chart, book or books,
without such consent first had and obtained in writing as aforesaid, then such offender or
offenders shall forfeit all and every sheet and sheets, being part of the same, or either of them, to
the author or proprietor of such map, chart, book or books, who shall forthwith destroy the same:
And every such offender and offenders shall also forfeit and pay the sum of fifty cents for every
sheet which shall be found in his or their possession, either printed or printing, published,
imported or exposed to sale,

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Tastecicles]

Mod parent up. Although, there is a caveat (isn't there always?):

What you seem to be describing is the Shareware Concept. This isn't so much fair use as a licence to copy and distribute. For those of you born after the days of bulletin boards and floppy disks on the front of magazines, here's how it works:

You get a copy of a piece of software from wherever (I'll use a copy of FractINT 18.0 I got on the front of a magazine a few years before my oldest child was born). The licence that comes with it (in electronic form, a file named license.doc and another called vendor.doc) says I can distribute as many copies of the software as I like, to whomever I like, BUT:

1. I cannot charge for the software. I am, however, allowed to charge for the media and bare distribution costs such as postage and packaging.
2. If I distribute the software as part of a compilation I MUST get permission in writing from the copyright holder (they're usually very good about this).
3. The software must not be modified in any way. Ancillary files not essential to the software's functionality but included with it (such as the licenses) must be bundled with it. Usually the license documents include a list of the files that must be included (an exception to this is the example given, where the authors actually encourage community input into the program, great mods/additions make it to the next version).
4. If I find the software useful, I should consider paying the author. Sometimes, what you have is a locked-down version (a "demo") of the full program. Pay a small fee and you get the unlock key. Sometimes it's a 30-day period with full functionality then it locks down. Same thing. OR for some games, you get to distribute the first level or three, pay the fee to get the rest of the game sent to you in the post (what a weird concept these days!)

Now, I've been using FractINT for nigh on two decades, it's the most fantastic bit of geek porn. I've also made regular donations to the authors in time and development (as they say, "Don't want money, got money. Want recognition". Great philosophy!) and I've managed to sort of keep up with the latest developments myself (though I still prefer the DOS version).

What the Shareware Concept and associated licence does in these days of wireless broadband and "What's a CD-ROM?" is reduce the cost of distributing software attached to it, to almost zero. You're not buying media or envelopes, or paying postage anymore. You're opening a Bittorrent client and hooking up to a tracker. There's no effort involved anymore, and that is what is scaring the SHIT out of the big vendors and the associatives - their business model is COMPLETELY OBSOLETE.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[girlintraining]

The first copyright law was the The Statute of Anne in 1709 in Britain. It did not apply to the colonies. The first copyright act in the US was the US Copyright Act of 1790.. it was similar to the Statute of Anne.

If we're going to have a measuring contest over who can nitpick the best, I'm going to win. The first copyright law in the United States was common law, which our laws were derived from, and Clause 8 of the US Constitution. In other words, until 1790, all our laws were case law, decided by judges. After that, a small portion of copyright law was codified. That's the very small part you quoted. Fair use predates that and continued after the passage of that law in our common law system.

Now, if you'd be so kind, please reply with another wall of text only tangentially-related, as is traditional when someone pulls your pants down around your ankles and giggles at your ineptitude in a public forum...

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Anonymous Coward]

You better hope to hell that your pirating is counted as theft because fraud caries a lot heavier penalty.

1. It's neither, it's a copyright violation.
2. It's not theft because he didn't take anything from you. You can speculate that he might have paid you instead of pirating, but in most cases people who pirate would not purchase it even if that was the only way to get it. They are pirating it as opposed to simply not having it at all. You're most likely confusing it with counterfeiting, which is when you pay someone for an illegitimate copy... in this case nobody is getting paid.
3. It's not fraud because he never entered into any contractual agreement with you.

I'm not supporting piracy, don't take this post the wrong way. But things might be able to turn around if people like you at least had a fucking clue about how the law works in regards to protecting your work. The problem we're seeing with the current laws regarding piracy is that it requires little or no proof on the part of the person filing the complaint that the person being accused actually pirated anything. And there is almost nothing to prevent outright fraudulent claims. Since you seem to be a bit of a jackass, I hope one day you have to deal with receiving a takedown notice for your own material... it's not easy to get that mess cleaned up, and you likely won't have any recourse for the time, money, and effort you spend doing so.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[hairyfeet]

I approve of this message 100%. I USED to be all for fair and just copyright, the kind that was actually written by the founding fathers...but that sure as fuck ain't what we got now. What we have is Jack Valenti's "forever minus a single day" copyrights and if that isn't enough the greedy pricks have even lobbyed and had some of the material that was public domain handed over to them! Meanwhile they fuck the artists as bad or worse than the consumer, see how Cheap Trick gets NOTHING from iTunes and Meatloaf had to spend over a decade in court and ended up filing for bankruptcy because they had the brass balls to claim that Bat Out Of Hell I, the album with the fricking Guiness record for longest stay in the top 200, never made a dime!

So fuck 'em, until We, The People have a say at the table again and copyrights are returned to a sane number instead of a fricking century and a half we should all just give them the bird. My ISP has made a good $7k+ off of me in the past 5 years and have only had to come out twice because of network issues, if they want me to give that money to someone else? I'll be more than happy to.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[hairyfeet]

I just wonder how long its gonna take for the other major corps that are gonna get screwed by this to start bringing out THEIR lawyers and lobbyists and getting nasty. Because i've known a LOT of pirates and ya know what? Frankly they buy just as much if not more than they pirate, in fact many of them pirate because there is just more entertainment out there than their budgets will allow. How many pirates buy from Steam? How many have Hulu or Netflix? And of course the search engines will get dinged as well.

I've known guys that buy the good movies and just download the crappy ones, I've known guys that have dozens if not hundreds of games in Steam and still download new games so they can see if they suck before plunking the cash, and I've known a LOT that will just download TV shows rather than watch them OTA because they would rather watch when THEY want instead of revolving their evenings around somebody else's schedule.

But the dirty little secret the ISPs don't want you to know is they WANT this, not because they give a flying fuck about piracy, but because they are too fucking cheap to upgrade their lines and they oversell the living hell out of them. if they can find an excuse to get rid of anybody that actually uses what they pay for then they can "cherry pick" their customers like they do the neighborhoods. I know in my area neither cable nor DSL has moved a single inch in over a decade, despite their ever rising prices and the fact the town is a third larger than it was a decade ago, because the cost of running lines might cut into their profits ZOMFG!

So for all those that are saying "The ISPs won't want to lose customers" know now that you are DEAD WRONG, they would LOVE to get rid of anybody that does more than watch some crappy SD YouTube videos because that means they can oversell their badly degrading infrastructure that much more. its gonna be all those businesses that rely on the net, your webmail and search, your cloud services and video services, those are the ones that will end up being the ones that break out the lobbyists and actually get heard because they can't afford to watch their customers dry up and blow away in a dead economy.

Kinda sad that it will end up "Battle of the douchebag corporations" but nobody listens nor gives a flying fuck about the consumer anymore, after all you can just bribe the politicians and get declared "too big to fail" and take the money straight from their pockets by gunpoint, why listen to them?

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[fredprado]

Then you are an idiot. Copyright infringement may be illegal, but it is not "stealing" by any remotely logic definition of the word, and it certainly is not stealing by the legal definition of the term in any country in this world.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Kamel Jockey]

You *still* believe pirating is stealing, even after spending time on slashdot?

(If you didn't mean to say loot, that's cool, we all make mistakes, just say so)

Tell people here that you use GPL-licensed code in a closed-source product and see how fast you'll be accused of stealing.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Anonymous Coward]

How is that different from a mafia style protection racket?

Seriously these guys are approaching bond-villain levels of evil.

Re:I should not have to pay $35

[Concerned Onlooker]

Yep. 99 percent of corporations give the rest a bad name.

Ooor....

[O('_')O_Bush]

What's stopping them from extorting people by blanketing these notices and collecting $$$ for "reviews"?

Can I sue them for defamation instead?

Re:Ooor....

[Jane Q. Public]

"... and the judges will find for them if it ever comes to trial."

Actually, more and more judges have been ruling that an IP address does not identify a person.

As we saw here on Slashdot just the other day, the first "three strikes" prosecution in the Netherlands was thrown out of court on that very basis: all they had was an IP address. It could have been anybody.

And take a situation like mine: I keep my router open as a public service (as suggested by EFF)... and I have one of the strongest signals around. People on the next block over could be using my internet. I neither know nor care, unless they were to become abusive of my generosity.

Re:cost them $35?

[Skapare]

A Slashdot story about how they are bad.

Got one?

[CanEHdian]

Did you get one, or know anyone who received one of these? Visit the US Pirate Party.

Google Fiber

[moniker127]

Hey does anyone in Kansas City have a REALLY long ethernet cord?

Re:I didn't know, RLY

[game kid]

In your case they'd probably just add the $35 charge to your next bill plus $15 for the interpreter they'd hired to read that. :)

Legal groundwork

[EmperorOfCanada]

This is just to lay the legal groundwork for the music and movie industries. This way they can demand this list from the ISP and show that the evildoer just kept going in the face of legal threats.

Pretty dumb for any ISP to help to attack their customers. When will the media companies learn that going to war with your customers is not a sustainable business model?

Plus I torrent Linux quite often how long before they start threatening even legitimate torrent users?

isn't this ...

[vlad30]

an illegal wiretap

Re:isn't this ...

[geek]

Only if the government does it. The contracts you sign up on likely cover this. Not that anyone reads them.

Fairness

[Anonymous Coward]

If a customer feels they are being wrongly accused, they can ask for a review, which will cost them $35, according to the Verge.

My initial reaction was the typical knee-jerk thought that "innocent until proven guilty" has clearly been thrown out the window, but after further reflection I changed my mind. If you are accused of a crime in court you will end up having to pay legal fees. This is not that different. Reviewing the case requires manpower and the review is not working for free.

To be fair, the fee for the review should only be charged if the customer is found guilty. If the customer is innocent, then the accuser should be charged a fee. In addition to the amount for the review, the accuser should be forced to pay for at least one month of service for the customer, to compensate him for the inconvenience.

There must be deterrents against false accusations and none against proving one's innocence, otherwise this will be abused like DMCA takedowns.

Of course, I don't expect such a reasonable system to be put in place. The telcos just want to make money. They're only doing this to relieve the pressure from the content mafia. They know that even if it makes customers unhappy, relatively few will let them know about it and fewer still can actually do anything.

Re:Fairness

[arekin]

This is sadly not something you will be able to fight. Honestly I would never pay for this review because it will just come back the same and you will now be $35 dollars short. The reality is that their "research" is to use the same information that resulted in a letter being sent to you to verify that you pirated material (whether you did or did not). Ultimately you're screwed. Best means to fight it is to get a legitimate copy of materials you were downloading and claim that you have a license to own a backup of said materials. Not sure that this would work, but it is the best means I could imagine that you would be able to legitimize any downloads you have made. Course I would only do this if they say that they are taking you to court.

Accuse everyone and profit

[flyingfsck]

1. Accuse all users of infringement
2. Collect $35 from all suckers
3. Profit1

Independent ISPs are not taking part

[TheSeatOfMyPants]

I was curious whether a major regional ISP was taking part in this clusterfuck, and found an interesting interview from August stating that the only ISPs taking part are AT&T, Cablevision, Comcast, Time Warner Cable and Verizon; independent ISPs are not involved and weren't even asked.

Relatedly, I highly recommend that anyone in the service area for Sonic.net (their CEO/founder was the one interviewed) use them as an ISP -- they're the only one I know of that has been persistently doing what we've all been saying we want ISPs to do when it comes to governmental & *AA demands and investing in fiber connections. No better way to show appreciation than voting with our wallets where we can...

Re:Innovative solution

[causality]

How about not overspeed in the first place?

How about not punishing people for such a ridiculous thing in the first place? Expecting people to be perfect is ludicrous and destroys respect for both the law and police officers.

That bird flew away from the nest a long time ago.

Ever since about 1980 there was a movement in law enforcement called "proactive policing". Prior to that, police were much less aggressive in terms of actively trying to find violations themselves. Other than regular patrols, they tended to come only when called. They try much harder now to look for trouble, to nail you for every little technical violation they can write up.

Believe it or not, a couple of generations ago the general attitude was "the police officer is your friend, if you have a problem go find a cop and he will help you". People believed in it, expected it, and it worked. The relationship now is much more adversarial because the police don't see us anymore as a community they are serving, like they once did (believe it or not). They see us as potential tickets and arrests to pad out their performance records. That's what proactive policing has done.

Incidentally, a lot of license plate scanners, GPS trackers, infrared scanners, and other surveillance tools local police are implementing are actually being funded with federal money. Most of the 1984 bullshit is coming from the federal government, not your local elected sheriff. Of course for their part, the local cops are only too happy to get all the new toys...