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Ask Slashdot: Mathematical Fiction?

An anonymous reader writes "Neal Stephenson's 1999 Cryptonomicon was a great yarn. It was also a thoroughly enjoyable (and too short) romp through some mathematics. Where can I find more of that? I should say that I don't want SF — at least none of the classic SF I read voraciously in the 70s; it's just not the same thing, and far too often just a puppet-theatre for an author's philosophical rant. Has any author managed to hit the same vein as Stephenson did? (Good non-fiction math-reads are also gratefully accepted. What have you got?)"

44 of 278 comments (clear)

  1. George Orwell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    After all, 2+2=5

  2. Tons of math fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/

  3. Romney's Budget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's great mathematical fiction.

    1. Re:Romney's Budget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      you partisan bitches

      Wow! Projection.

    2. Re:Romney's Budget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it's fantasy.

    3. Re:Romney's Budget by JWW · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obama's budget is a fairy tale with magical creatures called "taxes on the rich" which make everything better.

  4. Re:Too short? by The+Moof · · Score: 2

    When talking length, we're not always talking about page count.

  5. Greg Egan by Edward+Coffin · · Score: 5, Informative

    Try something by Greg Egan. His short story Glory (pdf) is online.

    1. Re:Greg Egan by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I was thinking Greg Egan as well; Schild's Ladder in particular, along with Permutation City pop to mind.

      And much of the work under the moniker of "Hard SF" might appeal to the submitter, since it tends to be backed by real math, physics, and chemistry and often delves into the details.

    2. Re:Greg Egan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Egan's latest, "Clockwork Rocket", is probably his most mathy work to date. It takes place in a different universe (dubbed "Orthogonal") with its own distinct physics: the speed of light is different for different colors; gravity is an inverse-linear force as opposed to inverse-square; and don't even ask what's going on at the subatomic level (are there even atoms in this universe? It's not quite clear this early in the trilogy...)

      Anyway, the book's got diagrams and everything, so if math and physics are your thing, you'll have lots of fun with this one.

    3. Re:Greg Egan by Beetle+B. · · Score: 3, Informative

      I second Greg Egan. For a taste, here's a free short story.

      --
      Beetle B.
    4. Re:Greg Egan by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      Google gives this:
      'At the moment, there are 1089 works of mathematical fiction listed in this database.'
      http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/all.php

  6. flatland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    flatland, a romance of many dimensions;
    (http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/)

    1. Re:flatland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The sequel "Flatterland" (by Ian Stewart, who also wrote "The Annotated Flatland", which is exactly what it says on the tin, and contributed to the excellent "Science of Discworld" trilogy) and parallel novel "The Planiverse" (by A. K. Dewdney) are also quite good.

      Flatterland covers a lot of advanced math and physics, via the adventures of A. Square's great-granddaughter Victoria Line, while The Planiverse examines what physics, chemistry, biology, and societies would be like in a two-dimensional universe.

    2. Re:flatland by ClickOnThis · · Score: 3, Informative

      flatland, a romance of many dimensions;
      (http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/)

      Yes, recommended. I enjoyed it, although one has to look past the misogyny in its pages. (It was written in 1884.)

      I also recommend the 1965 novel Sphereland for those who would enjoy a sequel with a more non-Euclidian treatment.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  7. Hofstadter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I found Douglas Hofstadter's "Gödel, Escher, Bach" to be at least as engaging as any Stephenson-esque fiction I've ever read.

    1. Re:Hofstadter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hostadter also wrote "Metamagical Themas" - both the book and the articles in Scientific American for some time. Those two books were some of the best reads I've ever enjoyed.

    2. Re:Hofstadter by ReverendLoki · · Score: 2

      I was thinking the same. Keep in mind, it's not fiction (there are fictional elements in it, more like fables to illustrate the points made), and it's more like a general essay/introduction to logic, paradox, intelligence and what it means, recursion, and similar topics. You may find yourself covering topics you are already familiar with, depending on your experience, but it's still a good read.

      You can read a better summation on Wikipedia

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  8. Flatland: A Romance Of Many Dimensions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well over a hundred years old and well ahead of it's time.

  9. The Story of O by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Story of O by Pauline Reage is the fascinating account of the discovery of the number in ancient Mesopotamia.

  10. Not fiction but... by Empiric · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...Tracy Kidder's Pulitzer winner -reads- like good fiction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine

    In terms of "dramatizing math", I'd have to give it the nod even over Cryptonomicon.

    --
    ~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
  11. "A Subway Named Mobius" by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful
  12. on the non-fiction side by new+death+barbie · · Score: 5, Informative

    Godel, Escher, Bach, by Douglas Hofsteder
    The Mind's I, co-edited by Douglas Hofsteder and Daniel Dennett
    One, Two, Three... Infinity by George Gamow
    Flatland, by Edwin Abbott Abbott (okay, this one is fiction)
    anything by Martin Gardner

    --

    It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.

  13. Oh, you want mathematical _fiction_ by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Funny

    I thought you wanted fictional mathematics and was going to point you to arXiv.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  14. Neverness by David Zindell by shadowdelta · · Score: 2

    Captured my attention when I was in high school and I re-read it every few years. It was the first SF that I had ever read that made mathematics a central part of its story.

  15. Try Borges's short stories by Shaterri · · Score: 2

    While not often directly mathematical, several of Jorge Luis Borges's short stories are interesting efforts on his part to grapple philosophically with many of the concepts of infinity: The Library of Babel most famously, but also great stories like The Book of Sand, The Aleph, and even Death and the Compass. They won't necessarily tickle you in the same way that Stephenson's work did, but they're still a fine jumping-off point into fascinating and deeply philosophical mathematics.

  16. The greatest one of all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I can't believe nobody here has posted this yet...

    One of the most underrated books ever written is Alice in Wonderland. No, it's not "just" an absurdist children's tale. The author, "Lewis Carroll," was really the mathematician and logician Charles Lutwidge Dodgson -- and some mathematicians claim that almost everything that happens in the book is an allegory of a mathematical theorem or algorithm of some kind. I'm not qualified to say, but it is a marvelous work, and some people have written mathematical footnotes for it.

    1. Re:The greatest one of all by Antipater · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's an interesting read despite its now-defeated viewpoint, kind of like watching The Battleship Potemkin or Triumph of the Will. It was an allegory ranting against the discipline of complex math, which had just recently been introduced. He was ridiculing the concept of imaginary numbers, which take you to a Wonderland where things grow and shrink in size randomly and other things disappear almost entirely (except their grin!).

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    2. Re:The greatest one of all by Artifakt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's very, very much there, to the point where it surprises me when people don't spot it, but perhaps it helps to know the context:
      Dodgson also wrote a book called Euclid and His Modern Rivals, which was basically a lengthy criticism of people who were trying to develop alternative axioms of geometry and new theorems from them in Dodgson's day. It's fictionalized, in that he used Minos and Radamanthus, two of the three judges of Hades, he had the ghosts of famous dead mathematicians appear, and he actually used Lewis Carroll as a character, who chimed in with his opinions as though he weren't merely Dodgson's alter-ego.
              By most accounts, it's a fair lynching. Except for Legendre and Peirce, the people Dodgson was criticising have been pretty well dismissed and are not considered at all relevant to modern non-Euclidian math. Dodgson wasn't particularly critical of those two. For example, he basically said Henrici was using a cheat called a Magician's Force" to present his arguments, which is pretty much saying Henrici wasn't just wrong but crooked. He granted that one of Henrici's arguments was probably intended to be a Reducto ad Absurdum, but then called it an abnormal and hideous one. In a genteel era, there are places where he's about as blunt with some remarks as could be, without shocking genteel folk, and probably if he had been speaking about businessmen or military figures, instead of mathematicians, would have provoked a real challenge to a duel or two, even though they were firmly illegal by then (about 1865 when the first snippets of it were published seperately, to 1885 for the whole volume). About the worst he said of Legendre was that he was better suited to readers who had already studied the subject in depth, and beginners would be confused by their own prejudices as to what words mean in common language instead of math.
                  I hope you can see where this is going, a bit. In the Alice books, we have a character saying when he uses a word it means precisely what he wants, people having to run as hard as they can just to stay in place, arguments about logical order (The Red Queen's "First the sentence, then the verdict"), and all sorts of bits which are not only about math, but are said by characters who are parodies of some of the specific mathematicians in 'Euclid and'. There's reasons why some characters in the two Alice books look like walruses and carpenters if you look at photos and illustrations of the people in 'Euclid and' who say the quaintly illogical things that match.

      The second printing of this book came out in 1974, from Dover, and people might still be able to dig it up cheap. It's 'slightly dry reading' by modern standards.

       

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  17. Easy by DHalcyon · · Score: 4, Funny

    For mathematical fiction, I've found nothing beats macroeconomics textbooks.

  18. Trying to remember by NEDHead · · Score: 2

    I read a story the premise of which involved a computer that was designed to create/discover new mathematical theorems. At some point there was found to be an issue in some areas of research, and it was ultimately concluded that another similar effort was being made elsewhere in the universe, and the two efforts were at odds. Essentially the math became 'true' instantly/everywhere when it was first proven, but with different starting points/assumptions the two mathematical realms were in conflict. Don't remember the name/author, and I would love to know (assuming anyone recognizes it from my poor description) to reread and recommend.

    1. Re:Trying to remember by mdenham · · Score: 3, Informative

      That would be "Luminous", by... hey, Greg Egan again. Good story, if kind of short.

      If you want to stick in that general direction of things, BTW, the short story collection Dark Integers and Other Stories has that plus four other more or less loosely-related (I believe only one actually qualifies as a sequel to Luminous) stories. Probably your best bet for sticking to math-related fiction.

  19. Re:Wow!! no one has said these. by NEDHead · · Score: 2

    Difference Engine sucked at every possible level.

  20. I think by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You may like 50 shades of Grey, it has the number 50 on it.

  21. Re:Oo oo! I've got one! by Oh+Gawwd+Peak+Oil · · Score: 4, Funny

    I took a number out of the Romney/Ryan economic recovery plan, and multiplied it by itself to see what would happen. I got a negative number. Why would that be?

    I took another number and multiplied it by itself, and got another negative number. In fact, every number I took from that plan and multiplied by itself, I got a negative number!

    How could that be?

  22. No, it's Superstring Theory fiction . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

    . . . economic recovery will occur, but only in other dimensions that most folks won't be able to sense and experience.

    And since Superstring is the Unified Theory, it applies to both political parties.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  23. Robert Anton Wilson by supergringo · · Score: 2

    Read the Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy for hilarious, ingenious, quantum physics-based fiction.

  24. Funny you should ask... by EPAstor · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's an excellent source of mathematical fiction... Alex Kasman's curated list of mathematical fiction! I highly recommend it.

    Also, a story I discovered through this list, which was truly spectacular: Ted Chiang's "Division by Zero". Freely available here.

  25. Re:Oo oo! I've got one! by DiegoBravo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I just took the actual Obama recovery results and got negative numbers without having to multiply by anything...

  26. Re:Ready Player One by FiloEleven · · Score: 2

    I think Stephenson takes an eternal and unjust beating about his endings. His books end when the major conflicts are in a position to be resolved by a thinking reader. There's no "and they lived happily ever after," but there is always a sense that all of the key pieces are in the right place and the outcome is decided in that the people we want to come out on top will come out on top. Chess is a very apt metaphor, in my mind: when he stops writing, you know that the Bad Guys are outmaneuvered and trapped in a corner. Does he really need, considering that he tends to be free with his words as it is, to write another thirty pages in order to gift-wrap a final outcome that is already easily imagined by an engaged reader?

    Don't get me wrong; I appreciate books that have those kinds of endings. But Stephenson is more concerned with the interesting conflicts, the multiple disparate threads that weave and tangle with each other. When the massive knot becomes a loose collection of simply-twisted loops, he loses interest. I don't find that to be a fatal flaw at all, and I respect that he wants to devote all of his energy to the engaging events leading up to the point where a resolution is inevitable instead of spending a lot of time on the resolution itself.

    Take The Diamond Age, for instance, the ending of which a sibling comment laments. (Spoilers follow.) We end with Nell essentially leading an army of girls who are ready to take on the status quo, and with the decentralized Seed in a position to overtake the top-down economics of the Feed. The implication is that these two things, both on their own and taken together, are forces that can and will reshape the world they inhabit. To me, in a way, it's like politics: as soon as you start to get into the details of the resolution, you're going to alienate people who think it should have taken a different path.

  27. Comics to help grasp mathematical concepts&phy by Walkey · · Score: 2

    Not quite what you're asking for, but there a whole range of comics to help vulgarise maths that are a great read. Look for the work of Ian Stewart. He was quite successful in France with French translations, but I'm not sure whether he galvanised much interest in the English speaking world. His famous series in French goes by the title of "les chroniques de Rose Polymath".
    http://www.amazon.com/Ian-Stewart/e/B000APQ9NM/.

    On a slightly different note, French astrophysicist Jean-Pierre Petit vulgarised a number of physics theories in an entertaining way. And what's more he has now provided free download of the scans of a lot of his comics: http://www.savoir-sans-frontieres.com/JPP/telechargeables/free_downloads.htm#english.
    Or read the same in many other languages, take your pick: http://www.savoir-sans-frontieres.com/.

  28. Non-Fiction by tobiah · · Score: 2

    If we drop the fiction requirement but still avoid math proper, there are classics like...
    "A Mathematicians Apology" by G.H. Hardy is The description of what it is to be a modern mathematician. Essential reading for the professional.
    "Chaos: Making a New Science" by James Gleick popularized the field of chaos, now folded into analysis.
    "The Fractal Geometry of Nature" by B. Mandelbrot is worth it for the images, and popularized fractal geometry.
    "Godel, Escher, Bach" by D. Hofstadter has been mentioned above, but is an extraordinary exploration of logic and well-deserves its awards.
    I consider "Where Mathematics Comes From" by G. Lakoff and R. Nunez to rank amoung these. It applies linguistic cognitive neuroscience methods to explore the neurological basis of mathematics.

    For math proper, a couple favorites:
    "The Heritage of Thales" by Anglin and Lambek is part history and part math textbook, presenting classic results from different periods of history in their context.
    "A Wavelet Tour of signal processing" by Stephane Mallat is the best book on wavelets I've seen, clearly written and full of powerful ideas which may take centuries to unfold.

    --
    "The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
  29. Re:Too short? by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anathem is one of the best books I've read in years, and if the opening chapters don't grip you you're missing something badly. Having said that, most of Anathem's jokes are based on a strong knowledge of etymology and of the history of western (especially Greek) philosophy, so if you're not strong on those subjects a lot of it will go WHOOOOOSH over your head. But, that's just the same as most of Cryptonomicon's jokes requiring a knowledge of mathematics. Stephenson expects his readers to be well and widely read and to have an intelligent understanding of what they've read; he's not 'easy reading'.

    --
    I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  30. One Jump Ahead by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 2

    This is a near-miss in the math nonfiction category, "One Jump Ahead" by Jonathan Schaeffer is the story of the guy who solved the game of checkers. I haven't read the book, but there's a podcast on the "relatively prime" series, called "Chinook", here.

    Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with either the Relatively Prime podcast series, or the Chinook project.

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    2*3*3*3*3*11*251