Slashdot Mirror
Apple Posts Non-Apology To Samsung
We recently discussed news of a UK court ruling in which the judge decided Apple must publicly acknowledge that Samsung's Galaxy Tab did not infringe upon the iPad's design, both on the Apple website and in several publications. The acknowledgement has now been posted, and it's anything but apologetic. It states the court's ruling, helpfully referring to "Apple's registered design No. 000018607-0001," and quotes the judges words as an advertisement. The judge wrote, "The informed user's overall impression of each of the Samsung Galaxy Tablets is the following. From the front they belong to the family which includes the Apple design; but the Samsung products are very thin, almost insubstantial members of that family with unusual details on the back. They do not have the same understated and extreme simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design. They are not as cool." They go on to mention German and U.S. cases which found in Apple's favor. Apple's statement concludes, "So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad."
..they required an acknowledgement of design differences. The danger for Apple is that such a public acknowledgement could spill over into other jurisdictions and affect suits there. Therefore, they've made it as highly specifically technical and narrow to their lawyers' interpretation of the judge's order as possible. Whether or not the court will agree is another matter, and if the court disagrees, how the judge feels about it could mean anything from tweaking the wording to being found in contempt.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Heh. Not sure if Samsung prefers to have this up or down :)
...like what they'd do to NORMAL people when we spit in the face of the judge with our restitution... likely to happen? Nope. Sad, really. They really really deserve it.
..being Apple. This is just what they do best: spin everything for good PR, forgetting the technical part.
I really hope the UK has the equivalent of 'contempt of court' and throws the book at those arrogant jerks at Apple.
I further hope the blowback from their attempted patent-armageddon against the rest of the smartphone industry costs them manyfold what they've attempted to extort from others. I only wish I'd never introduced my wife to Apple, and helped her climb the Linux learning curve instead. I hate the idea of giving those would-be monopolists a single penny.
Judges generally don't like it at all when people try to skirt around their rulings by barely acknowledging the letter while flagrantly disregarding the spirit.
Apple is just begging for a contempt citation here.
Well nice to know that Apple is still behaving like a spoiled child. It isn't enough to dominate the market, it is important to be unrepentant bully.
Apple using extremely selective quotes from the judge to spend the whole 'apology' badmouthing Samsung is questionable enough but the section at the bottom is basically saying "but ignore this judge, These two courts are more important and found them guilty". That's going to piss the judge off, judges never like their authority being undermined.
The judgment wasn't cast iron law, it doesn't matter if you follow it to the letter if the judge clearly believes you're not following the spirit of a judgement. The judge clearly would not have wanted Apple to give the impression that the judge endorsed Apple's products.
It was three Appeal judges. This sort of thing really is a mistake where they are concerned, and I imagine they will be contacting one another about it on their Blackberries. If Apple now goes to the UK Supreme Court, they will not be very popular.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
What was expected? This is the company that complains when they win.
About a week ago.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3194259&cid=41692165
Apple will definitely go down this road.
The judge gave clear language on how to display the apology, but not on what the apology should entail.
Something like:
"We apologize for implying that any Samsung product was as sleek or as easy to use as the (link to ipad page)Apple iPad.(\link)"
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I thought that too - but it's in small writing, in the link bar at the bottom of the UK home page.
Apparently if you go there, you also find the stairs are missing and the announcement is in a locked cubicle with a sign on the door saying "beware of the OS X Leopard".
All I can think is, if they both lose, everyone wins.
So I guess I care a bit.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
It reads like a child saying sorry :) this has got to reach the news along with the follow case.
I think Microsoft would have written a 10,000 word apology which read like a EULA. Every bit unread after the first title.
Hey This post is just like every Apple product ever made. Not even close to first, but billed as such by the company and all the fanboners.
"beware of the OS X Leopard".
Class!
- and come to think of it; Apple fanbois resemble Vogons in so many ways.
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
My rough take on this, and one Apple should probably absorb globally, is that legal cases are what they are. If you are going to cry publicly that others are not following the 'law' - you don't really gain much from then being a jackass in cases where its been found you are wrong. Why now should Samsung behave in result of a ruling? If all make mockey of the process, then where does it lead.
No, Apple need to be pulled back in court and to be hammered. Double hammered. And then hammered some more. Seems a deliberate and stupid attempt to deviate from the nature and spirit of the ruling laid down on them. This isn't marketing. This is a legal case. Trying to unleash the marketing idiots on it is a mistake, and is erroneous.
Jobs in his younger days - pretty much stated that he stole everything, every idea, every good design and so on - as far as he could. Thats why he went to Xerox Parc and was so taken with a GUI - the same as Paul Allen - 'one day every computer will use that' - Its sad that in the end - he failed to understand that anyone imitating their work is in a way paying a form of homage to them - and their early spirit. And later it seems legalese and not innovation has become the guiding light. Somewhere - someone got lost.
Where would Apple be if Xerox (parc) had walked up to early Apple and crushed them in a court case. Where would the innovation be. Its too simplistic really - but you get the point.
We`re all equal
The judges ruling clearly states:
As a result of his second judgment, Judge Birss ordered that:
Within seven days of the date of this Order [18th July 2012] [Apple] shall at its own expense (a) post in a font size no smaller than Arial 11pt the notice specified in Schedule 1 to this order on the homepage of its UK website ... as specified in Schedule 1 to this Order, together with a hyperlink to the Judgment of HHJ Birss QC dated 9th July 2012, said notice and hyperlink to remain displayed on [Apple's] websites for a period of six months from the date of this order or until further order of the Court (b) publish in a font size no smaller than Arial 14pt the notice specified in Schedule 1 to this Order on a page earlier than page 6 in the Financial Times, the Daily Mail, The Guardian, Mobile Magazine and T3 magazine.
And
The material part of the notice specified in Schedule 1 reads:
On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronic (UK) Limited's Galaxy Tablet Computer, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple's registered design No. 0000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High court is available on the following link [link given]
The judge specifically spelled out what Apple was suppose to post. Apple didn't follow these instruction by attaching all the other cruft to the ad therefore they haven't fulfilled the court order.
Try fucking with the judge and you and your solicitor are in DEEP SHIT.
No, he was proactively copied in look and feel of his first post by TWX. TWX then just made is post less cool, so that it would be differentiated. Look at all those extra words.. is that an adverb?! It's a mockery of the simplicity of AC's post.
And this, Apple fanboys, is how Apple will treat you if you ever (consciously or unconsciously) cross Apple's road. Or if Apple decides to cross your road.
With contempt.
Draw rounded rectangle on your iPad? Forbidden. Make a successful iOS app? Apple will copy it, and reject your app from the app store.
It doesn't matter how many iDevices you own, Apple will bite you in the end. And it will make everybody believe that you were the bad guy.
So please, for your own sake and for ours, get off the bandwagon while you still can.
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
In the Tracy Kidder book, "The Soul of a New Machine", he documents a year or so with the engineering team designing a new computer. Time pressure... long hours... high tension... and finally one of the engineers called one of the others an asshole.
The project manager called the fellow into the office & explained that we all need to be able to work with each other... yadda yadda.... and you must apologize to him.
The fellow left the office, approached the other engineer and said, "I'm sorry you're an asshole".
Sure, this looks like mockery to us unrobed and unwigged. But look at it from the Judges PoV: they know that one or both litigants will hate them. Part of the job. What judges dislike is being overturned on appeal -- especially if they've "gone too far" (rather than missing facts).
Apple has just seriously impaired any appeal: They've spent alot of money to voluntarily quote the ruling -- they must agree with it, or at least that [foundational] part. Apple can plead compliance with the order, but not with respect to the material chosen. That was entirely their own choosing.
The law grinds fine, and it is not unusual to have things work out completely the opposite of knee-jerk first appearances. Life, too. I expect the UK justices will close ranks and not reward bad behaviour.
Apple was told to acknowledge the court's decision.
Rather than acknowledge *WHAT* the court decided, however, all Apple really did was acknowledge *THAT* the court had decided it, and then specifically spelled out what it was that the court decided. I'm not entirely sure that a mere recitation of what all the court had decided, since this is spelled out in the court decision that is linked to anyways, could reasonably be interpreted as an actual acknowledgement of it.
I guess it remains to be seen if that sort of thing will satisfy a UK judge. Also, I'm pretty sure that's not 14 pt text (14 pixels, yes, but not 14pt).
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Samsung should thank Apple for assuming Apple's customers are so retarded as to mistake an Android phone or tablet for an iPhone or iPad.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
nt
No, you missed his point, I do believe. What he's saying is that if someone else had the Idea, you shouldn't be able to patent the Idea and prevent other people from making money by using that Idea.
Make money? Sure you can make money. Go right ahead. But enough with this bullhucky about "I had the idea of a more or less rectangular device that has curves on it" that Apple has pulled in the last few months. Because that, my friend, is complete and utter idiocy.
Bits of code, random ramblings: jakimfett.com
Which is not, one might note, actually on the homepage of their UK website (which is one of its EU websites), which homepage contains neither the notice required by the order to be placed "on the home pages of its EU websites", nor the link to the judgement required to be placed as part of that notice, but does contain a link which says it is to a "Samsung/Apple UK Judgement" which links instead to the page linked in TFS, which contains the notice text, link to the judgement, and then a bunch of other Apple commentary. It seems to me that the bigger deal than them adding the additional language after the notice text is the fact that they haven't done what the order required, which is placing the notice on the homepage of their EU websites. And since the order specifically references the use of hyperlinks within the notice, it seems that the order is quite clear in distinguishing where content is placed vs. where hyperlinks to content are placed, so placing a hyperlink to a page containing the notice where they are required by the order to place the notice itself is nonresponsive.
It doesn't, but not for the reason you are arguing. The content is compliant, since the order specifies the exact text that is required to be placed, and doesn't restrict placing other text with it, and that text is there, and is the first non-heading text on the page.
The placement of the notice fails to comply with the order, however; it required that the notice be placed on the homepages of all of Apple's EU sites, in a specified typeface and size. What has actually been placed on the homepages of their EU sites is the much smaller text in the footer of the page reading "Apple/Samsung UK Legal Judgement", which is a hyperlink to the page containing the required notice and other text.
That much is correct.
No, the judge told them to place a specific notice (with the exact wording specified in the order, and a hyperlink to the judgement specified in a particular place), with specific text font and size. Which is the first non-title text actually on the page, and appears to use the correct font and size. So the content of the notice page is probably compliant -- nothing in the order directs them not to have other content on the page the notice is placed on. The "acknowledge that Samsung didn't infringe" is the kind of things news sites characterizing the order described it as, not what the actual order requires.
However, the order also specifies which pages the notice has to be placed on: and the specified pages are the hompages of Apple's EU sites. On their UK site, at least -- and I suspect the same is true elsewhere -- the only thing related to the notice on the homepage of the site is smaller text reading "Apple/Samsung UK Legal Judgement" in the page footer, which is a hyperlink to the page linked from TFS. The text required by the order to be placed on the homepage of Apple's EU sites is not present, either in the required font and size or otherwise.
Apple is what M$ was 10 years ago for /. current demographics - Evil Satan that can do no right.
As someone who has been on /. longer than that (and around technology of any kind even longer) - all I can say is "this too shall pass".
In the meantime, I think Apple did the right thing. Take it on the personal level. Let's say you feel someone wronged you. You go to court, try to correct the wrong, and court decides against you and (in your opinion, adding insult to injury) requires you to apologize to the party that offended you. How do you feel? Can you offer an honest apology? Why would you? Regardless of whether you agree or don't agree Samsung copied Apple. For the record, while I am not a big fan of Apple policies, I *do* feel that most manufacturers, including Samsung, are copying them. In these things the devil is in the details, and *imho* these details are what make Apple products convenient and others (Samsung) are convenient mostly as far as they follow these same details. Feel free to disagree.
And of course no discussion of British legal system and apologies is complete without this, which I find extremely pertinent: :) Linking here because youtube is misbehaving at the moment)
http://movieclips.com/CDHXP-a-fish-called-wanda-movie-upside-down-apology/
(Now you can tell how old I am
I think everything that was bad about Microsoft's market defensiveness which made it 'the brand of squares' was also what pushed people to Apple. Now that Apple is the same if not worse, I would expect to see the trendy crowd leaving in their droves if they had somewhere to go.
Apple as a corporate brand looks like a cynical, egotistical, dominance protecting bullshit artist. I know, I know, it's all about the shareholders but it seems really at odds with their hipster marketing.
Within the next few years, there's space for a new 'fashion electronics' brand to replace Apple. I don't think that's going to be Nokia, Microsoft, RIM or Samsung but who knows.
I can agree with that entirely. While I do take issue with criticisms aimed at the content of the message, I fully agree that it appears Apple did not comply with the ruling by placing the content on their homepage.
It is never good to have a goverment ordering people to say or write things they don't actually believe. This is called "Freedom of Conscience." If Apple slandered or libeled Samsung the court can issue a fine. Or the court can write a press release that identifies the court as the author and force Apple to dsiplay it.
These are not functional patents, they are design patents. The TV depictions, in terms of design/trade dress show that the design is not novel and as there are multiple such TV/movie examples, obvious.
If you aren't part of the solution, then there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Did they commission Mel Gibson to write the apology?
Does the slashdot crowd really believe this is about rectangular devices with curves?
The people that have looked at the design patent in question, yes.
HEMA is a dutch retailer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEMA_(store)
They like other retailers have had reasons to publish recall notices for products which turn out to be faulty, this is a legal recuirement. They usually are black and white with no pictures and tiny logos if the logo is even present. The ones for HEMA are in color, with clear logo and product image also in full color. They don't need to, but they do because... well, they care for their customers? That at least is the image this gives people. The company has an EXCELLENT reputation with most Dutch people. They sell a LOT of their own branded stuff and while it isn't premium quality it is cheap and reliable and if you have a problem just return it and get a full refund with no hassle.
They respect their customers and deal with laws as adults, obeying not just the letter (print recall notice) but the spirit (try your best to notify the customers they might have a faulty product).
Compared to Apples reputation... lying about European warranties (2 years vs 1 year that apple gives), false advertising and now this kind of childish stunt. It means any adult sees Apple as just plain pathetic. Childish. Petty. Immature.
Grow up Apple. All you have done by this is given ammo to apple haters to ridicule your fanboys with.
Had they produced a mature ad, only the fanboys would have wimpered and everyone else would have said "oh well at least they aren't sore losers".
Now they are the laughing stock of the world for throwing a temper tantrum. Only yuppies respect this kind of stuff and the like of Romney who likes to fire people. The rest of us want to live in a mature world were people and companies act with a bit of dignity.
Bad Apple now go to bed, no desert for you.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Not to play the UID game but it looks like I've probably been here a tad bit longer than you. I remember the glory days of MS bashing and the reasons for bashing were very different. People hated Windows because it crashed 200 times a day and any 8 year old with a DOS prompt could essentially "root" your box. MS also practiced extremely agressive anti-trust behavior.
Apple does none of the above. They just sue the piss out of competitors and act like arrogant jerks every chance they get. I'm not going to pass moral judgement on which of the two is worse but the reasons for the bashing are different and far more people here like Apple than they did MS in days long past.
I myself use Apple computers almost exclusively, even though I hate the company.
You are confused. Apples patent is a DESIGN PATENT. What that device actually does or its purpose is not relevent. It could a kids toy, a piece of plastic, or a portable nuclear reactor that fits inside that design. If that design was shown before, it was prior art. The operation of the procut iside that design has completely different patents.
People have been building skyscapers for mixed office/business/condo use for years, many of them have design patents with them. The petent there is the design, not what is inside and the actual purpose of the building.
How many times do we have to beat this into the ground? You CAN get protection on design. This was not just about "rounded rectangles." All bottles share many characteristics, but try selling a soda in a curvy bottle that looks just like Coke's and see where that gets you. All cars share many characteristics, but Chevy can not make a car that looks just like a Mustang and Ford can not make a car that looks just like a Camaro. There are MANY ways to make a tablet that don't consist primarily of a black rectangle with parallel sides and a bezel of a certain width and with chrome trim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress
It may or may not be bullshit but that's the law as it stands. There is a continuum between "totally different" and "virtually identical" and that's where the courts come in. Samsung COULD have played it safe and EASILY made products that look different from Apple's but instead they said "let's copy Apple as much as we can and take our chances."
http://allthingsd.com/20120806/iphone-caused-crisis-of-design-at-samsung-memo/
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I'm not arguing that design patents shouldn't be allowed. All I meant is that the design patent that was asserted against Samsung really is just a rectangle with rounded corners. The only other elements that one could possibly argue are required by the design are what appear to be an LED and a connector of some kind, but it isn't all that clear what they are supposed to be.
Since when a huge multinational corporation has a conscience?
The purpose of this order is so that apple informs its customers that samsung did not infringe. If you look at it this way then it really doesn't matter if anybody at apple believes it or not.
We have to beat into the ground until people admit making a rectangle with rounded corners is about the only way to make a tablet. It's not about someone stealing someone else's design.
Look - if there were lots of other ways to make a tablet PC that were not a rectangle with rounded corners, that would be fine.
The issue is not that there are protections on specific shapes or designs (that's another argument), the issue is that Apple tried to enforce these protections on a rectangle with round corners. Tablets basically can only be rectangles with round corners.
How many times do we have to beat this into the ground?
Apple has always been their fans and not the other way around. Originally Apple's fans were tinkerers and engineers, so Apple was all about that until the MCA, them artists were all about Apple so Apple was an artistic company devoted to making a better experience for the user. Then the damn iPod came along and ruined everything. Suddenly Apple's fans were a bunch of assholes who thought they were superior to everyone else because they all listened to the same awful noise they swore was music. Now it has become so horrible that every time I have to go into an Apple Store I feel like I am in an episode of a new Sartre TV show called "No Exit"
Feel free to browse my user profile and see what a massive fan I used to be of Apple but that was the old Apple. In August I bought a Samsung Series 7 Slate and I have had RTM on it since.
I now know what women who leave abusive relationships must feel like.
"I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!"
-Jennifer Saunders as Edina Monsoon
Which is not, one might note, actually on the homepage of their UK website (which is one of its EU websites), which homepage contains neither the notice required by the order to be placed "on the home pages of its EU websites", nor the link to the judgement required to be placed as part of that notice, but does contain a link which says it is to a "Samsung/Apple UK Judgement" which links instead to the page linked in TFS, which contains the notice text, link to the judgement, and then a bunch of other Apple commentary. It seems to me that the bigger deal than them adding the additional language after the notice text is the fact that they haven't done what the order required, which is placing the notice on the homepage of their EU websites. And since the order specifically references the use of hyperlinks within the notice, it seems that the order is quite clear in distinguishing where content is placed vs. where hyperlinks to content are placed, so placing a hyperlink to a page containing the notice where they are required by the order to place the notice itself is nonresponsive.
You would be right, going by the original decision, but the UK appeals court modified it to say that Apple could put a link on their home page, acknowledging that requiring the statement itself on their home page would adversely affect the design of the page.
So the choice is either (1) run the publicity "as indicated" or (2) "as may be agreed or settled" between the parties. I do not imagine that Samsung had agreed to, or settled with the notice Apple put up on their site at the moment. The only possible notice compliant with the court order would, therefore, be "as indicated" by Sir Robin Jacob. He indicated in the preceding paragraph 87: "... Subject to anything that may be submitted by either side I would propose the following:
Apple should have put up a notice with this text (which is "as indicated" by the court). If you freely add or subtract paragraphs from the text ordered by the court, you are not complying with the court order. I do not suppose Judge Birss intended his "not as cool" passages to be quoted and used in the manner Apple did.