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Project To Build Dual-Booting Linux, Android Tablet For $100
SternisheFan sends this quote from Ars:
"It likely won’t be as sleek or fast as a Nexus 7 or Nexus 10, but a new tablet running both Android and Linux is in the works for open source enthusiasts and lovers of low-budget devices. PengPod tablets, made by a company called Peacock Imports, will dual-boot Android 4.0 and a version of Linux with the KDE Plasma Active interface for touch screens. But in order to reserve a tablet for yourself, you'll have to contribute to the company's crowdfunding project on Indiegogo and hope enough money is raised to begin production. 'Our goal is to build a powerful, True Linux Tablet, one free of Google and Android's restrictions, at a reasonable price,' the PengPod IndieGogo page says. 'If you're a Linux fanatic you probably ended up getting an Android phone. Hey, it's Linux right? It'll be open, run all the programs I'm familiar with and let me hack around and have some fun right? Too often, this is not so. That is why we set out to find a way to run real Linux and all the software you really want.'"
You might not want to hear this but KDE is a memory hog in general. This project, like many other Linux based ones, will suck big-time and ultimately fail depending on who you talk to.
One Linux Per Contributor?
--- Mercutio was right.
Chances are this will lead to a crappy tablet, if there's no $BIG_COMPANY adoption, if it leads to a tablet at all ...
'Our goal is to build a powerful, True Linux Tablet, one free of Google and Android's restrictions, at a reasonable price,
Yeah, that onerous Apache license that stop you from doing.. uh.. what exactly?
Well, I mean at least hardware-wise they're free of the "restricted" $200 7" tablet that is instantly unlockable so you can put whatever you want on it, including Ubuntu...
Um, wat? How are Google's Nexus tablets "restricted"?
The folks behind PengPod are off to a slow start, with $769...
Wow, I could buy 7.69 of the non-available 1024x600 tablets with that!
For $100, i really hope its not based on the Maylong 150....
Maybe someone would work on a better OS for better, existing hardware instead of building another (and admittedly, clunky) tablet for dual booting.
Seriously?
A fool and his money are soon parted. Sheesh.
Ummmmm.... what?
Isn't that the whole point of Android? Free from restriction? Customizable? Hackable? Open?
Just go get a Nexus tablet. I love mine.
As a true Linux enthusiast I ended up with a Nokia N900, Please, anybody who has one and doesn't like it, offer to sell it soon. My understanding is the formerly great hardware manufacturer is facing severe financial hardship due to bad management decisions concerncing software. I've not seen anything even approaching it since it's introduction. I'd say less than a quarter even offer a hardware keyboard anymore.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Could they not set the price to same price as other tablets and in that way actually be able to build a good tablet otherwise I would say Curiosity could smell the fail all the way from Mars.
Cool but have anyone tried to work with KDE/GNOME/LightWave with FINGERS? I mean god this interface is made for pixel precision device (like a fucking mouse) not manly fingers on 7" screen.
Why dual boot when you can run both simultaneously since both run on the same Linux kernel? Kind of how Windows 8 runs both WinRT apps(for tablet use) and desktop apps simultaneously. Best of both worlds, use the Android apps when you want to use a tablet, and then switch to KDE apps for real work, all without messy rebooting.
This space for rent.
I despair to see many of my IT colleagues, formerly Linux nuts who would happily spend a week debugging a wireless driver, drifting into Apple's curated world.
Usually it starts with a Macbook because, you know, it looks fantastic and it's UNIX. And that usually leads to a Time Capsule. Then comes then iPad.
By this point they've sold all their non-Apple gear and are evangilising the World of Curated Computing. Apparently it Just Works ( standing in line at Apple Care is apparently part of this ).
They'll just sneer at a Linux tablet. Open-ness is dying :-(
Too Good To Be True. It used to be that an inventor gets a patent then approaches a company to market the product. When did it change to crowdfunding (whatever the hell that is - sounds like tincup begging to me) with a promise of no return beyond being first in line for a product that right now only exists as a sequence of numbers on a spinning disk? Excuse me if I come off as arrogantly skeptical, but that's what life has taught me - if you leave yourself open to be shat on, then you will be shat on.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Came on, if you really want dual boot, let put it as option as much of OSes possible.
I have an Ainol (*snicker*) NOVO7 Elf II which I paid $120 for (on sale from $140, and free Fed-Ex 3 day shipping). It has 1GB DDR3 RAM, 16GB internal memory, G-Sensor, good display, 5-6 hour battery, and a Dual-Core 1.5GHz ARM processor.
It runs Android 4.1 and I can run Ubunu 12.10 from the sdcard with almost everything except the touchscreen because of no drivers for that, or the Mali-400 GPU.
What they seem to planning here doesn't seem to be all that impressive considering my chinese brand tablet can do all that. Truth be told it may not be open-source like they want, but the kernel sources for Ubuntu are obviously available, and the company has released the Android kernel they use.
Ainol is also one of those companies that churn out tons of Android tablets, and they seem to be doing fine. A sub $100 tablet doesn't seem like such an achievement.
Basically, I don't see what the appeal of this project is aside from mabe extended support, but even my device has a good community behind is releasing custom ROM's and constantly keeping it up-to-date and applying fixes from the hardware manufacturers.
First a Tablet can be a "computer" but for most people it is a conduit to consuming stuff, preferably after having checked out their brain to the hat rack....
Now when a Tablet is used as an "adjunct" computer, it does make sense to have an open source OS running on it.
But the error in the pengPod strategy is that having the cheapest tablet possible actually is a guaranty of disappointment, I own a similarly priced 7ins Arnova tablet, it is "perfect" to look at a video on a long flight or train commute, it is acceptable as an ebook, and it gives a great testing platform for our games (as if it works on this, it'll work on about anything....)
I'm a "happy consumer" and double so because it was really cheap....
But if I ever buy a table to actually get some work done (for which I would need Linux) I would want at least something like a Samsung Galaxy Note 10 or an Archos x10 or an Asus Transformers (all three provide some efficient mode of data ENTRY, so they expect you to do more than cklikety clak more sugar for the brain please....)
Anybody building a Linux terminal should either focus on "really cheap stuff to do some automatisation" (because we are a little to lazy to use systems that are "real close to the iron", and prefer an embedded linux to some single process pic environement). :-)), but in most cases we can free as in freedom, and not free as in crappy ...
Or look at what Linux users actually buy!, it is not the "cheapest PC possible" but something that is rather powerful, except that we tend to keep them longer so sometimes they look crappy (like the toshiba netbook I'm using right not
So I'll probably end up buying the first tablet that is able to convincingly run ubuntu (or another linux) and offer a decent keyboard, hopefully it'll have something like the "note" pen also, and it should not be too heavy....
But I will not try to use Linux on a machine that I know will be disapointing....
Some people get very confused about the kernel vs. user space applications. RMS said it best:
“Android is very different from the GNU/Linux operating system because it contains very little of GNU. Indeed, just about the only component in common between Android and GNU/Linux is Linux, the kernel. People who erroneously think “Linux” refers to the entire GNU/Linux combination get tied in knots by these facts, and make paradoxical statements such as “Android contains Linux, but it isn’t Linux”. If we avoid starting from the confusion, the situation is simple: Android contains Linux, but not GNU; thus, Android and GNU/Linux are mostly different.“
So the project aims to create a tablet that will let you run Linux...or another, and more polished, version of Linux?
If it's just about having a more free platform than Android, why bother taking up storage space by putting Android on there? Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like a waste of time and money.
I live in Shenzhen, and here in China you can pick up these Allwiner based tablets for about $100-$125 USD. My buddy couldn't resist a bargain and bought one a few weeks ago. I was surprised how well it worked out of the box. Decent performance browsing heavy pages, and the all the 3D games I could throw at it ran smoothly. That Allwiner blows the Rasberry’s CPU out of the water.
Initially, I was tempted to get one. Then I started noticing the problems. The accelerometer hadn't been properly calibrated or mounted at the factory, meaning some racing games you have to hold the device at a 20 degree angle to drive straight. When the battery started getting low, I plugged it in to its proprietary charger only to find out the touch screen doesn't work when charging.
Then about a week later my buddy said the screen popped out after he left it charging overnight. Turns out the battery had swollen up. All these issue point to shoddy cheap components and lack of testing and QC. With only $100 to spend, suggest a used Kindle or Nexus 7.
In a couple years, when I get tired of whatever low-end SoC they can get in their $100 tablet, there'll be a couple new generation of SoCs, and either a low-end from the newest generation or a mid-range from the older generation will easily double the performance for the same price.
If the tablet uses EOMA-68 CPU cards, I'll just be able to buy a new CPU card and upgrade the tablet. And then I can put the old CPU card in something else (maybe a plugserver or such). If not, I'll have to buy a whole new tablet, and in that case, why wouldn't I just spend $200 no on one that's twice as fast?
EOMA-68 or go home.
When we are salivating for quad-core 2560x1200 coming out with a crap chinese knockoff and trying to flog it as something.. well anything really is bound to fail. We know what we want and until 'we' become a market that the majors feel like monetising we will have to do without or hack whats there.
they plan on not being sued out of existence for patent violations by Apple, Samsung, Motorola, HTC etc. not to mention the patent trolls.
There was literally just a story on why we wouldn't be seeing this type of thing... I'm all for this, but I can see this getting sued into oblivion :(
This is putting the cart before the horse. Make something that runs well on _existing_ tablets. _Then_ talk about building a special tablet to run it on. There are a lot of fine candidates out there—there's no reason to waste effort building another one that will deliver half the performance at the same price. A Nexus 7 or a Nexus 10 would be a great platform for prototyping this.
Having said that, I completely agree with your point about KDE. In addition to being a memory hog, it's hopelessly complicated and presents an impossible learning curve to anyone who just wants to figure out why dumped core. It might as well be closed source, for all the good that having the source does.
Trying to port Linux to Android tablets is a dead end. They will get Mer, OpenWrt, etc running on ONE tablet a year. If at all.
The alternative is to consider Android as a different Unix platform, with its limitations, and port KDE, Gnome, etc to Android. More details here:
http://www.elpauer.org/?p=1191
That path would reach potentially every Android tablet (and phone!). Easy? No. Doable? Sure thing.
... for double the Linuxy fun! Where can I get one?
So you are recreating the SmartQMid?
This is putting the cart before the horse. Make something that runs well on _existing_ tablets. _Then_ talk about building a special tablet to run it on. There are a lot of fine candidates out there—there's no reason to waste effort building another one that will deliver half the performance at the same price. A Nexus 7 or a Nexus 10 would be a great platform for prototyping this.
I can't imagine that this isn't being done, at least internally. Can't we already go buy a Nexus 10 (or similar) and dual-boot Android and Linux w/Plasma-Active ourselves? Isn't the price the point of the project?
This is putting the cart before the horse. Make something that runs well on _existing_ tablets. _Then_ talk about building a special tablet to run it on. There are a lot of fine candidates out there—there's no reason to waste effort building another one that will deliver half the performance at the same price. A Nexus 7 or a Nexus 10 would be a great platform for prototyping this.
I can't imagine that this isn't being done, at least internally. Can't we already go buy a Nexus 10 (or similar) and dual-boot Android and Linux w/Plasma-Active ourselves? Isn't the price the point of the project?
Actually, taking a second look at the specs in the article, I'm surprised anyone is behind this. The "vertical" resolutions are 480 pixels (7") and 600 pixels (10"). That is ridiculous. With the Nexus line so competitively priced, who would ever touch one of these?
OK, they're not using Kickstarter. But the fact remains that the crowdfunding mechanism is a stupid way to buy stuff. If you think the project is unbearably kewl, by all means donate some money. But if you think "buy it in advance so we can get the money to develop it" is a reasonable way to buy stuff, I have a Nigerian prince who wants to talk to you.
If the Linux they were shipping was "Real Linux for Desktops"(tm), then it wouldn't be appropriate for tablet use.
It's not, though, it's KDE Plasma. Thus, it is appropriate for tablet use, but basically has no applications. Unless you want to use Desktop apps like OpenOffice somehow. Those will be big and slow and heavy compared to Android or iOS apps. I just don't see the point here. Android (at least on Nexus) devices is not that "closed", etc.
There's also cygwin and a pile of other scripting environments that work on MS Windows.
That's where people ran into the brick wall of trade secrets in the graphics hardware and no way to make something run well without painstakingly reverse engineering the things. Starting with documented hardware that does the job makes sense in that context.
You know that you should have ALWAYS some swap enabled... even if its just 100MB (1GB should be better). The linux kernel have some entries that fail if there no swap enabled, even if you have free memory and no need for swap, that might create weird problems.
Also, swap is good for big apps like chrome, firefox, java, etc, where the apps requests several GB of RAM, but will just use a small part of that. Without swap you will lose all that unused RAM, with swap that unused RAM is mapped to the swap (without any IO or delay, so its a win-win)
Also, tmpfs can be mapped to the swap if you would ever need to free RAM (i know, you believe that you will never need this, but just in case...)
So please, add some swap! :)
Higuita
Remember that all windows 8 ARM based devices are REQUIRED to lock the boot to signed binaries... on the X86 is "just" recommended.
I dont know if the FSF/redhat/ubuntu boot loader can work on ARM (as usually the boot is limited by the cpu and firmware)... it might be a while until you can run other OS on MS surface.
Higuita