Slashdot Mirror
Apple and HTC Settle Patent Dispute
An anonymous reader writes "HTC and Apple have reached a global settlement that includes the dismissal of all current lawsuits and a ten-year license agreement. The license extends to current and future patents held by both parties. The terms of the settlement are confidential. From the article: '"HTC is pleased to have resolved its dispute with Apple, so HTC can focus on innovation instead of litigation," Peter Chou, HTC's chief executive, said in a statement.
Tim Cook, Apple's chief executive, also expressed relief in a statement. "We will continue to stay laser focused on product innovation," he said.'"
HTC uesd to be a legitimate contender, so Apple did all they could to block them from the market. With all the resources HTC has diverted to the patent wars, they can't really compete anymore and Apple probably doesn't see them as a legitimate contender. Apple probably just figures they might as well suck whatever money's left taking from them. Borrowing from the Ars article on the same topic, HTC (read: the little guys) is just the upfront victim of the patent wars.
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
the SCO Linux licensing agreements by this?
HTC thought it would be a good idea to settle with a patent troll?
The link appears to bring up a paywall for me, either that or a bunch of ad-laden crap that privoxy flushes.
Here's a better link
..HTC phones come with an added Apple Tax? The article doesn't mention what the patents in question were. I have a One X, and I'll say this - If I had to choose a manufacturer skin I'd go with Sense anyday over Samsung's Touchwiz. Can't imagine what HTC might have copied off Apple if it's UI related. They have a fully customizable home screen, themes, skins, extra widgets...none of which you'll find on any iPhone.
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
Actually, the post was "Why you can't build your own smartphone", but that didn't fit.
It is impossible to build a smartphone without violating imaginary property laws. So no small, scrappy entrepreneur with a dream will ever be able to make one and sell it. The only people who can make smartphones are big-time players with the money to fight the lawsuits. The barrier to independent entrepreneurship to an impossible level.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
Very curious about what happened here?
Maybe Apple gave them decent terms as long as HTC swallowed a bit of a poison pill: the patent license deal dies if HTC is purchased by, or merges with another company (Apple did something similar with RIM). The last thing Apple wants is consolidation that would make the Android ecosystem healthier.
Or maybe MS played a role? It was reported that HTC managed to get Microsoft on side, largely by agreeing to continue to make Windows Phones'. Maybe having Microsoft on their side helped in negotiations with Apple.
Maybe it's divide to conquer? If the weaker manufacturers in the Android ecosystem have a license to use all the basic touch screen methods, and the stronger ones don't then it could lead to greater inconsistency between Android phones and could weaken the strong players (i.e. Samsung).
Ultimately, Apple's biggest threats are Samsung and Google/Nexus. I mention Nexus in particular because there is nothing that Apple & MS could hate more then the low margins of the Nexus devices. Whether or not the Nexus 4 itself is a success, the nexus line has become a threat to the traditionally high margins on mobile devices and it must have re-inforced Apple's determination to kill Android.
That's great news, Tim. You've got some catching up to do. :)
HTC's One series phones are a lot better
Could it be that HTC have started performing badly as a company, so Apple don't consider them worth the lawyer fees any more?
That's certainly what tech crunch implies about HTC. Now that HTC has switched to Windows they can be considered as dead:
I think that, in the spring once Microsoft's marketing money has disappeared, HTC may start coming out with competitive Android models again and has a decent chance of a revival.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
that's nice
too bad for them i like the iphone or Galaxy S3
Samsung is android at this point. they are the only ones making money in the android phone sector. at least in the USA. everyone else is losing money
Could it be that HTC have started performing badly as a company, so Apple don't consider them worth the lawyer fees any more?
That and a few more. I imagine it to be a mixture of several factors:
1. HTC successfully managed to transfer cases to a venue away from Californian courts
2. ITC found only one of the four / five Apple's patents to be valid and infringed by HTC devices (one related to data-tapping, i.e., detecting links, phone number etc within emails and texts)
3. HTC won a case in Europe on similar patents, where most of Apple's patents were deemed invalid. Only one was deemed valid, and HTC was found not to infringe that.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57466424-94/u.k-judge-htc-phones-do-not-infringe-apple-patents/
4. Judges in Delaware found that few of HTC standard essential patents to be likely valid and possibly infringed by Apple and HTC exploring seeking an injunction against iPhone 5 and new iPads using these patents.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57509251-37/u.s-judge-htc-patents-likely-valid-in-apple-suit/
So, Apple saw a possibility of loosing the case.
It is still significant development coming from Apple. They have repeatedly held that they are not in the business of licensing "product differentiating features". Only known licensing deal is with Microsoft and Nokia. HTC is the first company which also manufactures Android phones to have reached a settlement with Apple.
"We will continue to stay laser focused on product innovation,"
As opposed to what? 'not really focused' or 'cheap torch focused'
Cheers
The corporate-speak Nazi
Samsung is android at this point. they are the only ones making money in the android phone sector. at least in the USA. everyone else is losing money
Simply not true, Sony is making awfully inroads. In fact its counteracting loses on its PC's. Ironically LG now they have got rid of Microsoft are profitable again. Asus is posted great success with its new nexus tablets. I also believe Google are doing quite nicely, and recently are going to focus on mobile first not second. Huawei and ZTE is doing great too. Lets be honest its a smartphone market...its an Android market
Just because your iPhone is failing, with its massive drop in market share from 23.1% to 14.9% does not mean the rest of the industry is doing badly :)
unit sales and revenue does not equal profits
Apple and Samsung take home something like 95% of all mobile PROFITS
for slashtarts profits is what you have left over after you build and sell your device and pay off all the costs associated with it. everyone else loses money or fights for the scraps left over
That's because us iPhone owners don't care
I change my wallpaper once every 6 months or so. I cant even remember if I even set my iPhone 5's wallpaper
...but the market has noticed. The market is noticing that Apple are behind on both software and hardware, and better value phones are available elsewhere, which is why Android outsells Apple 5:1.
Maybe Apple should focus on providing a great experience so disappointing users, like those over maps will not happen again. Rather than pretending the opposition its working day and night to provide great products.
Apple and Samsung take home something like 95% of all mobile PROFITS
LOL there is no share of profits, There are only profits...and these companies are making profits on phones. This is a lie and you can't show me the figures. Apple does overcharge its customers, but lets face it posting bullshit from the days when we still talked about the "iphone killer" simply do not fly now, even the Samsung Galaxy on its own outsells the iphone, are we meant to pretend that Google makes nothing from its play store and advertising. Bury your head in the sand, Android has hit 75% and your still claiming it to be unporfitable. You live in fantasy land.
Ironically the days of any Apple dominance are over in pursuit of those profits. In fact in the Android market Apple is struggling to remain relevant.
Now that HTC has switched to Windows they can be considered as dead:
Have I missed something here? The One X+ which is out in the coming days ships with Android, doesn't it?
I work for ATT and we only offer 1 sony phone at a time, especially in the last year. And they are pretty too look at, but just awful phones, that no one really buys, and when they do, they are returned rather quickly, and the ones that keep them are fraught with warranty replacements. Sony is not making any inroads in the US market.
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Have I missed something here? The One X+ which is out in the coming days ships with Android, doesn't it?
LG have benefited from dropping Microsoft and focussing on Android. HTC claimed [and I would agree with them] that one of the reasons for its drop in the market was sending a confusing message to customers with too many models. That said, If HTC is large enough to support multiple platforms. I think it *could* be a great idea, unfortunately I think creating a new market with an exciting product could have been great. I suspect sharing the 2% *Microsoft* share of the market a bad idea; choosing a failed product and trying to make it work where other companies have failed, although in context of this Article, choosing Microsoft may well have been necessary for the negotiations.
Tim Cook wouldn't know innovation if the zombie corpse of Steve Jobs rose from the dead and bit him in the face.
This is the 15th Android-related contract.
http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/11/apple-htc-settlement-is-already-15th.html
Meanwhile, Federal Trade Commission staff have formally recommended that the government sue Google over anti-trust violations involving the licensing of FRAND patents.
LOL android is free. Patent abuse will of course continue, with Microsoft, and Apple abusing the system for there own gains. The bottom line is Microsoft phones have hit a high of...2%, and Apples are down from 23.1% to 14.9%. Clearly they should be innovating instead of litigating.
The reality is though Patent settlements are what the mobile industry have *always* been about. Hell its part of the reason why FRAND exists.
I remain to be convined that the Windows phone OS is dead. MSFT still has massive market presence and has a good chance of bulldozing Win 8 and all its siblings through to some sort of success. The big differentiator over previous MSFT moblile OSs is that it isn't rubbish. I have an HTC 8X and despite the very valid concerns over the app availability, the device itself is slick and gorgeous.
I suspect that HTC's strong involvement with MSFT did have a bearing on Apple settling with them; not because they think they're going to die but because they are taking themselves out of the frontline of Jobs' jihad
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"
Sony is not making any inroads in the US market.
The US market is irrelevant. The world market is, and Sony are now the 4th largest manufacturer of smartphones in the world [up from 7th]. Sony phones are doing awfully well.
Uh... you're delusional. Apple is doing better than it has ever done... wait, scratch that... Apple is now more profitable than any company in history ever. kthxbai.
Its market share in mobile phones has dropped from 23.1% to 14.9% its tablet share has dropped to 50.4%. Its ipod shares have shrunk to nothing, Android outsell Apple 5:1.
"the days of any Apple dominance are over in pursuit of those profits" I pretty much stand by that quote. The reality is Apple is have been riding high on market dominance [real and perceived] cashing in on all the and adopter money with massive mark-ups...but these are now mature markets. Apple has nowhere to go and its massive share drop reflects that. Lets face it its an Android world now.
Only with bigger screens, more memory and better performance. Unless there is a prohibitive per-unit cost, they will also be cheaper. Apple may have made a boo-boo.
For two reasons, I thin HTC won't be commissioned by Google to make a Nexus device:
1. HTC is on its last legs, more or less. They are ready to make deals with any and all, and their willingness to have prominent Windows phones is a sign of that (I know Samsung also makes Windows phones, but in case of Samsung, they are just symbolic gestures). That makes HTC a liability, to the Android ecosystem.
2. The deal with Apple likely includes a poison pill, and Google may not want to touch HTC anymore.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
So, Apple saw a possibility of loosing the case.
Does nobody around here know how to spell LOSE? I hate being a spelling and grammar nazi, but seriously, what the fuck?!
loose
Adjective: Not firmly or tightly fixed in place; detached or able to be detached: "a loose tooth".
Synonyms: adjective. lax - slack - free
Verb: Set free; release: "the hounds have been loosed".
Synonyms: release - loosen - untie - unfasten - unbind - undo
lose
Verb: 1. Be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something): "I've lost my appetite". 2. Cause (someone) to fail to gain or retain (something): "you lost me my appointment at the university".
Synonyms: miss - waste
Your figures need citations... looks like you're talking about the US only, where, indeed, Apple is in third place. Despite this, in 2012 alone, Apple has had more growth in mobile marketshare than any other single company, and their marketshare will continue to grow. But you go ahead and believe what you want in your twisted fantasy world, because outside of that, your worst nightmares are coming true.
I am using IDC's latest figures.
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23771812 for mobile
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23772412 for tablets
To put Apples market decile of 23.1% to 14.9% in some sort of perspective Android grew its market share from 52.8% to 75%.
Clearly I had no trouble backing up my figures. Perhaps you should have used an Android device to check your facts. Then you wouldn't look so foolish.
I'm not a fan of what Apple is doing in terms of litigation, but to be fair, they don't have a patent on rounded corners.
Their claim to rounded rectangles is part of a set of design patents, which includes the home button, edge-to-edge glass, the bezel, and other design features. The problem is not so much that Samsung* copied the rounded rectangles from the iPhone, but they've copied it in addition to a whole set of other design features. Lots of other phones and computing devices have rounded rectangles, so this is not in and of itself protected. But prior to Samsung's Galaxy S, I don't think there were any phones that infringed on all of Apple's claimed patents.
As an analogy, imagine if someone started a computer and smartphone company called "Apples". Apple then comes and complains that they've used the letters 'a', 'p', 'p', 'l' and 'e' in the same sequence as Apple has. Then a horde of angry Slashdotters comes and cries "Apple thinks they can trademark the letter 'a'!?!?!? The system is broken!!!!"
Yes, you can make a valid argument that Apple is abusing the system. But a half-truth like Apple has patented rounded rectangles distracts from that message, and weakens the argument.
* The rounded rectangles thing came up in the Samsung trial, not the HTC one. The HTC case is more about things like multitouch gestures like "pinch to zoom".
My bet is that they came to an agreement because HTC hold some LTE patents that Apple need:
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
But you are comparing 1 company (Apple) to the multiple companies who sell Android devices (Samsung, LG, Sony, Google themselves and now apparently HTC). Certainly, Apple's market share has shrunk as other companies enter the market wit competitive products. This does not however, spell the imminent demise of Apple. if we look at Apple's quarterly report from the fourth quarter of fiscal 2012, we can see they actually improved profit year-on-year.
As to your comment downthread about global smart phone sales, well it seems Apple is doing alright there.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/06/15/apple-samsung-55-of-global-smartphone-sales-90-of-profits/
If I had mod points you would get +1 Insightfull
Apple's flagship product is thug lawsuits. Apple will continue business as usual.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
But you are comparing 1 company (Apple) to the multiple companies who sell Android devices (Samsung, LG, Sony, Google themselves and now apparently HTC). Certainly, Apple's market share has shrunk as other companies enter the market wit competitive products. This does not however, spell the imminent demise of Apple.
I will ignore your out of date figures. we are now have quarter 3 figures published, and again you have failed to supply a breakdown of profits for smartphones, or even an explanation of how the current figure is worked out [seriously they do not exist]. Please do not twist my comments into what they are not. I have nowhere claimed there Apples "imminent demise", I personally believe they have failed to make the transition from new market to mature market, and its already started to hurt them.
I would love a breakdown of profit by company on a hardware and content combined basis, but you again fail to supply a list. A mythical figure combing Apple with Samsung is equally a nonsense especially when trying to prove Apples relevance.
The bottom line is Apple is losing Market share, and its desire to keep its massive profits is the problem.The very thing you are trying to defend.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/06/15/apple-samsung-55-of-global-smartphone-sales-90-of-profits/
In case I haven't enphasised how stupid and out of date this post I include this quote from the original article "“At this point in the year, Nokia will have to grow its Windows Phone business 5000% in 2012 just to offset its declines in Symbian shipments,” says Michael Morgan, senior analyst, devices, applications & content.
Q3 Microsoft Phone 2%
It is a significant development. I think the death of Steve Jobs could not have come at a better time, because if he were still around, what would be the odds of Apple settling with anybody?
Could this be the start of some major policy shifts at Apple?
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
It's a homonym. Many very intelligent people will swap them and will not notice it until they proofread. Myself and several other programmers I know whom I respect as intelligent individuals, have trouble with homonyms. I sometimes swap one/won. The two words are very different spelling and meaning, so to make such a grievous error must demonstrate a significant amount of retardation on my part. I don't even understand how I'm forming these sentences!
Where are you reading this? From your own source *Top Six Smartphone Mobile Operating Systems, Shipments, and Market Share, Q3 2012 (Preliminary) (Units in Millions) :
OS
3Q12 Shipments 26.9
3Q12 Market Share14.9%
3Q11 Shipments 17.1
3Q11 Market Share13.8%
Year-Over-Year Change 57.3%
That is an increase from 13.8 to 14.9%. Not a decrease.
Can you point it out? Because I can't find it. The closest thing I can find is this:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/11/apple-awarded-design-patent-for-actual-rounded-rectangle/?comments=1#comments-bar
But this is an extremely narrow patent, which covers the exact shape of an iPad. In order to infringe, you would need to have the exact height and width and roundness of the corners. Not exactly a singular patent on rounded rectangles in general.
Even if ip rights weren't a problem, making sure your spiffy new phone doesn't blow up or having the kind of industrial capacity to build these things are bigger barriers to entry.
Try again.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
The argument that Windows 8 is going to put over Windows Phone with its similar interface and Microsoft's marketing billions misses an important point. We've been hearing that for years, and it hasn't started working yet. Windows 7 was "optimized for touch" on launch, and the following CES had 35 Windows 7 tablets on display - not one of which ever amounted to anything even though each had actual full Windows on it and would run all Windows legacy apps and connect to all your other printers and other devices too. Windows 8 is a phone interface that doesn't work well on a PC. Microsoft used to have a 40% share of mobile, and now they have at best 2%, so this strategy is so obviously negatively effective that it is suicidal. Their massive market presence didn't prevent them from falling so far off the map that they are reported as part of the "other" category now.
What would turn the corner for them isn't massive marketing dollars. It isn't forcing everybody to use a phone interface, ruining sales of their desktop and server OS in a forlorn hope of going mobile. It isn't hiring a Bangalore blog center to post in every Internet forum "I have iPhone but am moving to the awesome Lumia 920, ditching my iPad for a SurfaceRT". It isn't buying Facebook Likes and Twitter followers and retweets. It isn't bribing people to stand in line on launch day with concert tickets, or building a three-story standup nightclub and open bar at Burning Man. It isn't bribing every tech news site on the Internet with so many advertising dollars they lose their editorial integrity. It isn't giving away a free copy of Office RT with every tablet. It could be done, but this isn't how they will succeed if they do.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Your figures need citations... looks like you're talking about the US only, where, indeed, Apple is in third place. Despite this, in 2012 alone, Apple has had more growth in mobile marketshare than any other single company, and their marketshare will continue to grow. But you go ahead and believe what you want in your twisted fantasy world, because outside of that, your worst nightmares are coming true.
I am using IDC's latest figures.
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23771812 for mobile
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23772412 for tablets
To put Apples market decile of 23.1% to 14.9% in some sort of perspective Android grew its market share from 52.8% to 75%.
Clearly I had no trouble backing up my figures. Perhaps you should have used an Android device to check your facts. Then you wouldn't look so foolish.
Sasy the right guy - not only have you not provided a source for your 23.1% number, you also showed that in the quarter people waited for the iPhone 5 to come out, Apple has grown its market share by over a percentage point.
As for tablets, that number by IDC is always quite suspect (Samsung outselling the Nexus tablets and Kindles combined?)- but even then, in the quarter of iPad killers (finally) and before the iPad Mini, Apple still dominates the market.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Sony will be lucky to see the end of 2014 as an independent company. They have made a habit of strategic error and poor customer service.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I would love a breakdown of profit by company on a hardware and content combined basis, but you again fail to supply a list. A mythical figure combing Apple with Samsung is equally a nonsense especially when trying to prove Apples relevance.
The last numbers I saw had Apple with 71% of the profits, Samsung with 37% of the profits, HTC with 1.x% of the profits and [everyone else] is *losing money.
*which is how the profits add up to >100%
The bottom line is Apple is losing Market share, and its desire to keep its massive profits is the problem.
15% of the market = 71% of the smartphone industry profits
We should all be so lucky to have such a record to defend.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
The comparison is valid. Apple is, like all companies, competing against all of the rest of the world. If 10,000 companies each take on average 0.01% mobile market share with Android, there is no market share left for Apple.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
That is an increase from 13.8 to 14.9%. Not a decrease.
Unfortunately the iPhone is not a Christmas tree, last years Q3 is not representative of this years Q3. Phones aren't seasonal. Look at the *interactive* graph at the bottom. More worrying For Apple than anything is Q312 actually contained the launch of the iPhone5.
not only have you not provided a source for your 23.1% number, you also showed that in the quarter people waited for the iPhone 5 to come out
Interactive graph too difficult for you to look at. Move your mouse over it. If a graph is too difficult for you to read, simply look at previous IDC figures. :). FYI it wasn't the quarter people where waiting for the iPhone to come out....it was the quarter the iPhone did come out :).
The last numbers I saw had Apple with 71% of the profits, Samsung with 37% of the profits, HTC with 1.x% of the profits and [everyone else] is *losing money.
*which is how the profits add up to >100%
Again show me the working. I would love to see it :). I want to see solid figures. As I said its a poor guestimate by a fanboy, quoted by other fanboys.
Easy there AC, dont loose you're cool.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
You made a mistake in punctuation. I fixed it for you. You're welcome.
This is a quote from Sony Global Earning release. Maybe you should leave my comments alone.
"Sales increased 112.1% year-on-year (a 125% increase on a constant currency basis) to 300.4 billion yen (3,851 million U.S. dollars). This increase was primarily due to the consolidation of Sony Mobile from February 2012, partially offset by significantly lower sales of PCs resulting from a decline in unit sales."
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html
Its ipod shares have shrunk to nothing
What exactly did you mean by this? What product has taken over the 4"-class Wi-Fi tablet market from the iPod touch?
or maybe it was because one was about operating systems and the other was about smartphones.
They're both about operating systems, as I understand it. Some of the features that Apple claimed are common to all smartphones that run the Android operating system.
The US market is irrelevant
The major English-speaking markets as I understand them are the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand. Two-thirds of the population of these countries lives in the United States. Slashdot is also operated and hosted in the United States. So how does this make the United States market irrelevant for the purpose of a Slashdot discussion?
So Samsung is on its way out as a supplier in the Apple chain ... and HTC has design expertise on at least the LCD panels front. Could this all be part of HTC angling to win the supply chain inside track for Apple?
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
We will continue to stay laser focused on product innovation
Actually, because laser beams have a gaussian intensity cross-section, they are a pain in the ass to focus. He'd get a much tighter focus spot with plain old regular light (or even better, UV, since the diffraction spot scales with wavelength).
So there.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Comparing previous IDC figures with current figures for previous quarters show they are full of it. BRTW: who will you insult after the results for this quarter are out?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Some folks have better things to do with their time than proofread their posts. I, for one, know how to spell both lose and loose. However, spelling has nothing to do with it; What you're complaining about is grammar.
When I write software misspelling a single word or including incorrect punctuation can have disastrous results. Some of my work is in developing machine intelligence via neural networks. What's interesting is that these artificial brains are far more forgiving that a C compiler. For example, my OCR AI can correct the very error you're posting about without notifying the user at all -- It literally knows what they meant. Meanwhile, you have an even more advanced Sentient neural network atop your shoulders yet you seem to complain far more about such errors that my AI or even my C compiler does...
If you live long enough, then some day you'll be conversing with a sentient machine intelligence when it makes a grammatical mistake. It will have the same disdain for your protests then as I do now.
TL;DR: You have a fucking Brian! Why don't you fucking use it?!
Slashdot is overrun with loudmouth fandroids who are on some kind of god-given mission to prove to everyone around them that Android is The Way and the Truth (or something like that)
So what is The Way and the Truth? Assume for a moment that someone wants to buy a mobile device and run applications distributed under a free software license on it. The device's operating system would have to meet these two requirements:
What mobile operating system other than Android meets these two requirements?