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X-Ray Laser For Creating Supercharged Particles

William Robinson writes "Scientists have found way to use X-Ray Lasers to create supercharged particles. The specific tuning of the laser's properties can cause atoms and molecules to resonate. The resonance excites the atoms and causes them to shake off electrons at a rate that otherwise would require higher energies. This could be used to create highly charged plasma."

29 of 55 comments (clear)

  1. IANAP by gagol · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am not a theorical phycisist... Would it help achieve achieve sustainable fusion? What applications do this new cool tech can provide? Thanks to the boffins around for your time.

    --
    Tomorrow is another day...
    1. Re:IANAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am not a theorical phycisist... Would it help achieve achieve sustainable fusion? What applications do this new cool tech can provide? Thanks to the boffins around for your time.

      An example for applciation: High charged particles are used for ion-beam radiotherapy in the fight against cancer. There are no known side-effects like at chemotherapy, but of course you cannot use the beam for every type of cancer. Unfortunately, the acutal beam of high chared particles needs an particle-accelerator which dimensons surpasses any garage. The new tech could probaly shrink the size of an ion generator, which would help to spreade the therapy with ions more to compensate the common x-ray radiotherapy with its bad collateral damage. (see Bragg-Peak)

    2. Re:IANAP by peragrin · · Score: 1

      fusion I want plasma weapons .

      created a dense field of plasma and fire it out of a coil gun.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:IANAP by gagol · · Score: 1

      Superb information, someone mod it up and thanks to the AC.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    4. Re:IANAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What I've seen of heavy ion beam therapy uses carbon ions, which should be something that could be fully ionized in something the size of shoe-box to a mini-fridge depending on if you want to count the power supply and vacuum equipment. The majority of the size is that ion based therapy uses much higher energies of couple hundred MeV per particle than other kinds of beam based therapy. This probably won't help much with that, especially considering in this case the x-ray laser source uses a GeV electron accelerator. Although if they get it to work with much weaker x-ray laser sources, it might help a little.

    5. Re:IANAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For fusion, at least thermal based fusion, the temperatures used would be thousand times that what is needed to ionize hydrogen or helium. So the fuel is fully ionized through the majority of the plasma in most fusion setups, with the hard part being keeping plasma hot and dense enough so there is time for nuclei to collied and fuse. Higher atomic number elements would be harder to fully ionize, but also would require higher temperatures for fusion anyway.

      Although the problem with larger elements, is they radiate a lot of energy, turning thermal energy into light that easily escapes the thin plasma in magnetic confinement plasmas. Even though the core of a fusion plasma is hot enough to fully strip most iron ions, there are still a few around, and more so on the colder edges of the plasma, and it is a major source of energy loss from the plasma. Usually this is dealt with by just being careful what materials are introduced to the plasma, so there are fewer impurities to worry about in the first place, although there are cases where the cooling is used constructively, with impurities added if they can be kept to specific regions. Fully ionizing them could help some, but I highly doubt the process of generating these x-rays would be anywhere near the power level needed to make that a net gain, and will be that way for a long time. And if they could get the particle accelerator component used in the FEL much more efficient, it might mean is more of an option than using muon-catalyzed fusion would be a more serious thing to consider at that point than shaving off a few percent of the energy loss on a fusion reactor.

    6. Re:IANAP by the+gnat · · Score: 1

      This probably won't help much with that, especially considering in this case the x-ray laser source uses a GeV electron accelerator.

      And is several miles long - it's dug into the hillside above Stanford.

  2. Re:A shark with a supercharger? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A shark with a supercharger?

    There ya go.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  3. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by Rakshasa-sensei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The resonance excites the atoms and causes them to shake off electrons at a rate that otherwise would require higher energies."

    Sometimes the difference between something significant and something already done lies in the details that stupid people are too quick to gloss over.

  4. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by someone1234 · · Score: 4, Funny

    They should also reverse the polarity. That would be cool.

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  5. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 5, Informative

    This isn't "heating atoms by making them enter resonance." It's, ah, one of those details that GP was talking about. The part where the inner electrons of large atoms follow many and complicated multi-photon-absorbtion paths to being ionized, which extremely high-spin orbitals as well as a near continuum of high-laying Rydberg orbitals, which mean that slight changes in pulse length, shaping, and frequency will be able to have a large effect on ionization rates.

    Let me give you a hint: If there's a paper being published in Nature about it, they probably did not, in fact, "just, like, change the dial, man."

  6. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by Rakshasa-sensei · · Score: 1

    'Everyone' knows about the efficiency theoretically, but they actually made it work at such high frequencies and they superseded the expected practical limits by a large margin.

    You still can't think it seems.

  7. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Tuning a laser to the resonant frequency of a specific atom so that it requires LESS energy to strip electons than theoretically calculated is NOT the same thing as heating the bipolar water molecules in your cup-o-soup while you're on break from workin in the coal mine.

    M'kay...

    Seems odd that it's x-rays that escape a black hole, though it may be coincidental. Do you think there's a connection, and would you speculate on how many kitchen microwaves it might take to allow this to happen? Or what exactly is resonating in the standard model of xenon. Is it the electrons themselves or is there something about the nucleus that changes, making it a less energetic process by which the electrons are held in orbit around this newly configured mass. Perhaps the photon bombardment has found a harmonic that effects the strong nuclear attraction of protons within their otherwise stable configuration.

    I wonder what harmonics are generated.

  8. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by delt0r · · Score: 2

    Real physicists publish in Physics Review or their like. Not that crap that is Nature and Science.

    Pro tip, Nature and Science don't care about good science, they care about citations, aka their own impact factor. That often means controversial/political topics (to a point), wrong, or so short that there is no science in the paper (massive supplements don't count).

    --
    If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  9. Nucleus Stabilisation via Electron Orbitals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Dysprosium was one of the first elements to be tinkered with in this way.
    Odd thing is , that stable nuclei can become unstable as electrons are removed.
    The electron cloud is in some way involved in conserving the nucleus.

    1. Re:Nucleus Stabilisation via Electron Orbitals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Source? I can't seem to find anything on google.

    2. Re:Nucleus Stabilisation via Electron Orbitals by AnotherAnonymousUser · · Score: 2

      I agree with the other commenter. Citations if you've got them - I want to know more =)!

    3. Re:Nucleus Stabilisation via Electron Orbitals by michwill · · Score: 1

      Google "dysprosium 163 naked nucleus", it finds the information

  10. How efficient is this? by benjfowler · · Score: 1

    I'm no physicist but...

    Would this have any application as auxilliary heating in tokamaks? Does it work efficiently with light elements?

  11. Supercharged? Excellent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...no more turbo lag.

  12. What "supercharged particles"? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    Is this the same thing that we called "highly ionized" when I was younger? The writing of the article is atrocious, I have the feeling that somebody was gleefully playing with words like a small child. There is no such thing as "very highly charged plasma" - at least comparatively, compared to the total number of free charge carriers - ions and free electrons. It it were, the whole thing wouldn't simply hold together. Plasma is outwardly electrically neutral, or almost neutral.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:What "supercharged particles"? by baffled · · Score: 1

      IANAP, but if what you say is accurate, it seems 'highly charged plasma' would consist of more free electrons per ion on average.. Effectively, more electrons are stripped from the atoms. Which is precisely what it says in the article. I was also confused by the use of the term "supercharged", as it appears to connote highly charged, and not the "supercharge" related to supersymmetry.

      I am surprised the data they gathered here is new. It would seem prudent for scientists to gather data on the absorptance spectrum for all elements, ever since these properties were first discovered. Some kind of frequency-varying emitter & charge detection mechanism to generate the data. Perhaps this is an effect that requires stable, precise frequencies that would be impractical to discover over a wide-range of frequencies for all elements?

    2. Re:What "supercharged particles"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      While plasma in most situations is roughly neutral, it is not inherently so. Research in non-neutral plasmas is an active field. The most practical application currently is understanding charged particle beams and their use in things from accelerators to some kinds of microwave generating sources. Additionally, research is done on low temperature trapped charged particles, for uses such as measuring fundamental particle and atomic properties, test beds for antimatter storage, or research into dynamics (interesting stuff like low temperature "plasma crystals" when the particles spread out and take an ordered form). This is a rather minor component of plasma physics in general though, so most of the time, plasma physics simplifies things by assuming quasineutrality in many situations where the plasma is obviously neutral.

      And when I hear "highly ionized," I usually associate that with a high ionization fraction for a given ionization state, not that the ions each are highly ionized. Maybe they were trying to refer to a plasma that was disassociated disproportionately to its temperature, a form of thermal non-equilibrium, although I've never heard that terminology used before.

    3. Re:What "supercharged particles"? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Good luck with trying to do that. Electromagnetic interaction will kick your butt.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  13. Awesome by Flipstylee · · Score: 1

    IANAPP, but have been a = average musician for a while, and from what i gather from TFA, they're creating a resonance that "maximizes the loss of electrons in a sample". It looks to me as if they've found a "harmonic" frequency for a given Element, that can either be used to coerce electrons out, or avoid as they need. I used all those words broadly, i'm just trying to picture it. The idea of Quanta is something that has always had me going in circles. Max Planck Ftw.

  14. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It isn't that hard to get a paper into a Physics Review or PRL, and for some fields, that is kind of the go to journal(s). Many physicists would be happy to publish in Nature and would consider it a step up in publicity. It is not like it makes the science in their paper worse, and I doubt many get rejected from Physics Review and decide to submit to Nature next as a backup.

  15. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Microwave ovens don't use any particular resonance and aren't even near the peak absorption, off by a factor of 10 in frequency from the peak for room temperature water and still off by a factor of 3-4 for boiling water (peak varies from ~100 GHz for 0 C water to ~10 GHz for 100 C water). The frequency used in microwave ovens is determined by what blocks of the spectrum have been allocated for industrial use and economics. It is why in industrial microwave ovens they use 900 MHz, because it is another industrial block and cheaper to make large, high power sources for than 2.4 GHz. For home use, the 2.4 GHz is a little more compact, but cheaper, especially in the past, than jumping up to the 5.8 GHz band. Additionally, putting the food in a metal box so that the microwaves can make several passes without much else to absorb it means that particular efficiency of water is not that important as long as it is much more than the walls (although hot spots when trying to defrost stuff can kind of suck).

    That said, this work here is pretty substantial. If you wanted disparage this work, you could have maybe instead have compared it to the large amount of work on multiphoton ionization work done by (non-x-ray) laser material interaction research, as this doesn't have much to do with heating the atoms There has been a lot of work into how multiphoton absorption can trigger and be used for ionization (or to deal with it when it is counter productive). However, there is still a ways to go on the modeling. A couple different models make different assumptions to simplify the quantum mechanics calculations, and the impact and usefulness of those assumptions is still being looked at. Testing these models at much higher energies and ionizations like here is a major step toward that. Maybe that is why the paper spends some effort comparing results to predictive models. And not to say that further optimizing and experimental refinement of the use of LCLS is not noteworthy.

  16. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by Sulphur · · Score: 1

    M'kay...

    Seems odd that it's x-rays that escape a black hole, though it may be coincidental.

    X-rays are electromagnetic radiation that does not escape black holes. It would be neat because unlike light it is dark.

  17. Re:Sorry but this sounds like non-news to me by PerlPunk · · Score: 1

    I think they ran this story just to feature the shark-fin icon. So to the Slashdot gods: yeah, many of us "get it."