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Pirate Party MEP Helps Draft New Credit Card Company Controls

Dupple writes with this excerpt: "It has become an increasingly large problem that Visa, MasterCard, and Paypal control the valve to any money flow on the planet. Today, the European Parliament established this as a clear problem, and initiated regulation of the companies, limiting and strictly regulating their right to refuse service. The Pirate Party was the initiator of this regulation, following the damaging cutoff of donations to WikiLeaks, after said organization had performed journalism that was embarrassing to certain governments."

29 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. Regulation is problematic by concealment · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While I like regulation in many cases, like nuclear power plants, in my experience new regulations are like cables.

    When you put all the cables on the floor, they're more likely to snag your legs, or get entangled and knotted with each other.

    This is why sometimes the solution is fewer regulations, and more direct solutions. If relatively few companies control our banking or money flow, the solution may be to break up some large companies.

    I think the feds are about to do this to Google for their near-total-dominance of search results and search-based advertising. Too much power in one set of hands can be destructive, unless that set of hands truly does "do no evil."

    1. Re:Regulation is problematic by Laglorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe there should be a regulation then "don't put all those cables on the ground" ;)

      In my experience analogies are like fauly watches, they are seldom correct and most of the times gives a sense of undestandning something but in reality just complicates things.

    2. Re:Regulation is problematic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is why sometimes the solution is fewer regulations, and more direct solutions.

      Somebody has to be the first to mention bitcoin, so I guess it will be me...
      Though it might not be the be-all-end-all at least it does solve the abuses of power that can come from governments trying to stop the flow of money between people who actually do want to send money from one person to another.

    3. Re:Regulation is problematic by Dan667 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      regulation is a necessary evil. The financial meltdown under bush/cheney was mostly a result of conservatives removing banking regulations and banks gambling with money they use to not be able to. Even Alan Greenspan commented he thought banks would show some restraint out of self preservation, but he was wrong.

    4. Re:Regulation is problematic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed.

      Power corrupts, etc. By the same token, that which uncontrollable and cannot be regulated is incorruptible.

      We can use some incorruptible functions in our infrastructure.

    5. Re:Regulation is problematic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      While I like regulation in many cases, like nuclear power plants, in my experience new regulations are like cables.

      When you put all the cables on the floor, they're more likely to snag your legs, or get entangled and knotted with each other.

      This is why sometimes the solution is fewer regulations, and more direct solutions. [...]

      Listen. To me. Your. Guy. Lost. The. Election. Already.

    6. Re:Regulation is problematic by suutar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I like this, personally; I feel that 'too big to (be allowed to) fail' equates directly to 'too big to be left as a time bomb' and getting bailed out should include getting broken up. But then again I feel that one of the great periods in consumer choice on the internet was when those who owned the wires were forced to allow anyone to use the wires who wanted to (at a reasonable rate), and that it would be lovely to go back to that. (Or better yet, just break up into a wire-owning company, a content-generation company, and a data-shovelling company.)

    7. Re:Regulation is problematic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh Americans... will you ever realize, that regulation is when you get to say "No! Stop it! We won't have it like this! Now it's my rules!"

      Which is your only damn defense against those 20-page terms & conditions contracts.

      Why the hell you would complain about such regulation, that does you good, and instead choose to defend the companies, that get to do way too much already, so they can do even more evil shit, is a riddle to us non-Americans.

      It's like a rape victim complaining that his savior should not tell his rapist what to do so much.

      Then again, in North Korea, they really believe that if you touch an American flag, your hands will rot off. As if that would really actually happen...

      So I guess people can be brainwashed into almost any delusion... even that their rapist would be the one that needs "more freedom"... and protecting your own rights would be "harming the free market".

    8. Re:Regulation is problematic by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are conditioned to believe this shit at early ages... "If you want to be rich some day, you have to think this way and support Free Market Capitalism. Anything else is just bad, and you don't need to know any more about it. Let's just call it all Socialism. It kind of rhymes with Satan, well, it starts with the same letter, at least."

      This is why you have stupid people, who haven't a pot to piss in, that lobby against things that are in their own interests, in favour of the corporate greed.

      Ordinary workers, living from paycheck to paycheck, getting in debt, saying that at least under (Insert Republican candidate they've been conditioned to support) they get to "keep what they have". No sir, they don't want anything like subsidized health care, they'd rather go into mortal debt for an emergency appendectomy. At least they are living the American Dream and doing it on their own, because government handouts are Socialism, which is the same as Communism (See, the old U.S.S.R. had the word "Socialist" in the title)

      Now these big companies, whose "freedom" they worship, are wanting to claw back their meager wages and benefits while execs get bonuses. Damn those unions for interfering with the God Given Rights of the corporations.

      Of course not all Americans are this obtuse, it's just that they are also taught to be very vocal when others don't agree with their beliefs, or criticize their country.

  2. Now that is something to think about... by 3seas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...how it is that banks can control the abstract tool used for easing trade ......

    So I want to trade you for something you have but I don't have what you want so we used this abstract tool to allow you to then get what you want from some one else.
    But we cannot even do that because some bank which originated in the support of the basic idea of this abstract tool decides they don;t want to?

    They are contradicting the purpose of the abstract tool of money. They are contradicting their own original objective.

    1. Re:Now that is something to think about... by s73v3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Noone is stopping you from using your money to buy something from another person

      This argument is complete and utter horseshit. If I cannot transfer money, they are in fact stopping me from doing it. No bank or credit card agency should be allowed to prevent me from making a lawful transfer without good reason. And "I don't like what that organization is doing" is NOT a good reason. Not when you have entrenched yourself so deeply in the global financial infrastructure.

  3. Re:Journalism.....!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And who, exactly, gets to determine who the "true" journalists are? Are what "true" journalism is, for that matter?

  4. catch-22 by doug141 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What will finance companies do when one government's laws make it illegal to do business with some entities, while another government's laws mandate it?

    1. Re:catch-22 by fredprado · · Score: 4, Informative

      What they always do. Deny service to those people with credit cards from the countries that want to forbid and allow service to those people with credit cards from the countries that mandate it.

  5. True dat by Frankie70 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Journalists really are no longer in the business of letting their readers know what their government doesn't want them to know.

  6. Money by Frankie70 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Donate money to one or both the governments and get the laws fixed. Next Question.

    1. Re:Money by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, we already know what happens in this situation. US law takes precedence. Example: Danish company wires $26k to a German bank and the payment is seized by the USA because it was a payment for Cuban cigars.

      The EU has a terrible track record when it comes to stuff like this. SWIFT was the only major payment network that was a European company and the US Treasury completely compromised it by seizing their US datacenter. So they built another datacenter in Europe so they could have multi-homed operations without exposure to the USA and whilst construction was being done, the US put huge pressure on the bureaucrats who then rolled over and said, sure, you can have all the data you want from SWIFT. So if the EU parliament really wants payment networks to stop doing things because the US wouldn't like it, the first step is to cut off the US Treasuries unilateral access to SWIFT data. But they won't.

  7. Cables are good or bad by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you throw cables on the floor for any reason, or string them at random heights or intervals to please one particular person, yes - they can bring all progress to a halt.

    Properly planned and distributed, however, they can take a seemingly impossible task - such as spanning a large body of water, capturing a large number of fish, jumping out of an airplane from several thousand feet up and landing safely, or climbing a very tall structure - and make it a straightforward task.

    The only difference between gridlock and utility is the thought and care with which the regulations are laid.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  8. Zombies by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Informative

    You can just clone a corporation by cutting it into two independent pieces. Like a zombie, but eating money instead of brains. And regenerating all the missing parts instantly after cutting it in two. With the right shell structure, you can usually avoid those problems long enough to get new laws written - like waiting around for the food and ammo to run out on your human victims. With enough lawyers, corporations can just hang out until the conditions are right for consolidation of resources. And a feast of brains.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  9. Re:Journalism.....!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    And who, exactly, gets to determine who the "true" journalists are? Are what "true" journalism is, for that matter?

    Slashdot anonymous cowards and bloggers, of course.

  10. Not "American fundamentalist moralism" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The MEP, Christian Engström", who instigated this is being disengenous when he claims the problem he is fighting is "American fundamentalist moralism". If you RTFA you find out that it was Swedish banks denying purchases of "horror movies, movies with nudity, or sex toys" and trying to shove blame off on "vague rules from Visa and Mastercard". Mastercard, Visa, and PayPal allow purchases of these items every day the world over. He should instead be blaming Swedish fundamentalist moralism. This strikes me as nothing more than another European statist power grab against an American company. If the Europeans want in on the payment processing business then they should create a competing company, not use big government to attempt to seize power over American companies.

    1. Re:Not "American fundamentalist moralism" by mrbester · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's also the issue that you can donate to the KKK using Visa but can't donate to Wikileaks because Visa have arbitrarily deemed them "guilty" of some crime, most likely at the behest of US Govt.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    2. Re:Not "American fundamentalist moralism" by davecb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you RTFA you find out that it was Swedish banks denying purchases of "horror movies, movies with nudity, or sex toys" and trying to shove blame off on "vague rules from Visa and Mastercard".

      Oddly enough, contemporary Swedish fundamentalist moralism doesn't seem to include problems with "horror movies, movies with nudity, or sex toys". It may have a real problem with wikileaks, though, comparable to the problem the U.S. (and UK, and, and ...) governments have with wikileaks.

      Visa and Mastercard have a significant problem with displeasing governments: if you don't forbid them acting in concert to please their home governments, your country gets whatever the U.S wants (as discussed in several other threads in this discussion).

      --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
    3. Re:Not "American fundamentalist moralism" by Christian+Engstrom · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, it was the payment service providers Visa, MasterCard and PayPal who took the decisions to block, not the Swedish banks.

      --
      Christian Engström, Former Member of the European Parliament 2009-2014 for The Pirate Party, Sweden
    4. Re:Not "American fundamentalist moralism" by TheP4st · · Score: 2

      Mastercard, Visa, and PayPal allow purchases of these items every day the world over.

      FYI PayPal recently closed a Swedish online retailers account for selling titles that contain words like sex and violence.

      Source (Swedish): http://www.gp.se/ekonomi/1.1128282-betalforetag-censurerar-sex-och-skrack

      --
      "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
  11. Re:Journalism.....!? by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Informative

    The irony is that it was a "true journalist" that accidentally leaked the encryption key to the WikiLeaks archive with the embassy cables. WikiLeaks up to that point seemed to know their limitations and was working with established journalists to release the cables in a controlled fashion.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  12. Re:Listen, Nigger by TheP4st · · Score: 2

    >Oh wait.. Wikileaks has already disclosed the names and addresses of American operatives around the world. Hmmm... Well, do it again.

    Did your panties also get in a bundle when the Bush Administration made the name of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame public with the kind help of Washington Post in 2003?

    --
    "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
  13. BIIIIIITTTTCOOOOIIINNNSSS!!! by slashmydots · · Score: 2

    Just saying, this is THE reason they were invented. You can get money to anyone in the world in approx 10 minutes without any oversight of blocking or interception or BS like Paypal and the big CCs try to pull.

    1. Re:BIIIIIITTTTCOOOOIIINNNSSS!!! by SirGarlon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can get money to anyone in the world in approx 10 minutes

      Sure, if you have an extraordinarily loose definition of "money."

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.