Why Big Data Could Sink Europe's 'Right To Be Forgotten'

concealment tips this news from GigaOm: "Europe's proposed 'right to be forgotten' has been the subject of intense debate, with many people arguing it's simply not practical in the age of the internet for any data to be reliably expunged from history. Well, add another voice to that mix. The European Network and Information Security Agency (ENISA) has published its assessment of the proposals (PDF), and the tone is skeptical to say the least. And, interestingly, one of the biggest problems ENISA has found has to do with big data. They say, 'Removing forgotten information from all aggregated or derived forms may present a significant technical challenge. On the other hand, not removing such information from aggregated forms is risky, because it may be possible to infer the forgotten raw information by correlating different aggregated forms.'"

Comments

Don't store it in the first place

[EmperorOfCanada]

If customers want their data forgotten then maybe they didn't want it stored or shared in the first place. The rule should not so much be about data retention but data gathering. The rule should be quite simple. Any organization that gathers data can't share it at all with anyone not directly connected with the reason it was gathered. So my power company needs my address to know where the lights need to be turned on and enough info to bill me. But anyone beyond billing and switching should not have my data, not management, not marketing, and definitely not a "trusted" third party.

The same with my driver's license that is needed by two small groups of people, the people who issue the license, and the police if they need to know that I am allowed to drive. It should literally be illegal for anyone else to copy anything from my license if it doesn't involve my ability to drive so say a car rental place would be OK. Many bars have taken to scanning driver's licenses as you enter the bar. Then you start getting mail and crap from the bar and anyone else they sell the data to. I met a guy who rewrote the data on the magnetic strip to cause buffer overruns and crash their little hand held units. He regularly went to every bar downtown that had the scanners as the crash wasn't a simple reboot of the unit as some remote server lost its mind requiring someone to come in.

These organizations find this data valuable but somehow think they can take that valuable thing from us without negotiation. I say you want my data you can pay me $1,000,000 per byte plus royalties on resale.

Re:Don't store it in the first place

[seifried]

But let's say I didn't share my data with Facebook, my friends and associates did. E.g. photos from an event I attended get posted, they tag me in the photos, now Facebook recognition tags me (well in theory..). Someone else enters my birthday in order to be notified a week in advance so they don't forget to email me a happy birthday. Someone enters my home town (actually happened on linkedin, grr). So now Facebook has my name, bday, address, photos of me, and I never logged into Facebook. That is why we need the right to be forgotten.

It depends on who is asking.

[AftanGustur]

When big corporations want "their" data removed from a server farm they simply send a email/letter to the owner and he has to remove it.

What is the problem with doing the same for people?

Facebook actually makes it hard for people to remove their content from the service, and it doesn't even say "delete", it says "remove from timeline" (but not from the whole system).

If I want my Facebook history Wiped, it is my right to do that, it is *my* data and Facebook and others shouldn't have a operating license unless they make it really simple for people to "be forgotten".

Re:It depends on who is asking.

[Luckyo]

Warning: cultural clash. In Europe, many rights cannot be signed away through TOS regardless of text in the aforementioned TOS. In US, you can even sign away your right to trial by jury.

As a result, attempts to cross-jury-rig comparisons are quite pointless.

Re:It depends on who is asking.

[FireFury03]

But you give Facebook a licence to use this data when you agree to their TOS. The data may have originated from you, but you transferred ownership of it in exchange for the services Facebook provided you with.

Not in the UK. British data protection laws hold that your data still belongs to you, even if its being held by another company. This is why that company needs your permission to sell it on. Of course, if it is illegally sold on without your permission and the seller lies to the buyer and tells them you authorised further sales then even if the buyer cares about the law, they may end up selling your data on even though you never gave that permission. (This happened to my data)

What is needed is a law that prevents dissemination of your data by a company who you haven't given explicit permission to directly.

If you want full control over your personal data, only sign up with services that gives you full control of the data.
This includes not signing up to any service that have a TOS that allows them to change their TOS.

Good luck finding such a service. For personal customers, contracts aren't negotiated, you don't have the option to strike out terms you don't like. And when so mant companies require you to permit them to use and sell your data in ways not directly associated with the services they provide, some regulation is needed to stop the public being railroaded into agreeing to this by virtue of having little choice.

the internet destroyed forgetting

[circletimessquare]

not any government policy or commercial entity

they call it disruptive technology for a reason. like the printing press, or the gun, or the atom bomb, it dramatically changes the status quo

it's simple: if you don't want it to live forever, don't put it on the internet. if you put it on the internet, it lives for ever

that's about the truth of it

but i suppose many people out there are like music company executives trying to impose legal constructs from the cassette tape age on the internet: unwelcome to accept ugly reality on the subject

well i'm sorry, you need to accept this as reality, no matter your feelings

one other point: privacy is NOT dead

all you have to do is stop offering parts of your life to the internet

the insane part is feeding private parts of your life to the internet, and then whining about a lack of privacy

Re:the internet destroyed forgetting

[Luckyo]

Unfortunately you make one massive presumption that is simply impossible to be true, which in turn collapses your house of cards.

You presume that all information about any given person is supplied only by that person.

In modern world, it's often the exact opposite. Aside of a few attention whores, most of the "moderately embarrassing info" is posted by people who know the person in question but are not the person in question.

Re:Lets forget the 'right to be forgotten'

[Luckyo]

This is the entire point of legislation - it's a "court order" without having to go to court every time (which is prohibitive for individual and society) on specific kind of information storage.

Unfortunately most US-based folks would likely not understand this any more then average afghani can understand equality of women. When you never had any expectation of privacy in your culture, another culture with significant presence of such expectation would seem very alien.

Re:The 'right to be forgotten'

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Few ideas are more absurd. They will have to outlaw all recorded media and burn down the libraries. Make ignorance the law of the land.

"Right to be forgotten" is an odd phrase, but it doesn't mean anything like what you seem to think it means. Basically it just means you have the right to request that information which you have provided to a particular data repository be removed from that repository. IOW, no more "we own everything you post forever" policies. Seems reasonable enough.

Re:Here's spin

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Let's say you meet The President or Prime Minister in real life. They say something that impacts you so greatly, it changes your entire life.

I met the Prime Minister once, and it had no effect on my life at all. Then again, the PM in question was John Major, so not really a surprise.