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Vendors Sue Dutch Government Over Media Levies

An anonymous reader writes with news that hardware vendors aren't too happy about expanded levies on media. From the article: "Hewlett-Packard, Acer, Dell, and Imation are suing the Dutch government over new levies on hard disks, smartphones, tablets, and MP3 players that are meant to compensate the music and movie industries for losses caused by home copying. The entertainment industry estimates lost income of €40 million, which is much too high, according to the hardware companies. 'That amount is excessive and completely unfounded,' they said. The €40 million also incorporates damages for illegally downloaded music and movies which, according to the companies, legally cannot be recovered by a levy on devices. Furthermore the Dutch government established a levy on all devices including devices for professional use that are not used for private copying, they said."

15 of 55 comments (clear)

  1. 40 million too high? by devjoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In the US the entertainment industry attributes losses of more 40 million to a single file-sharer.

    1. Re:40 million too high? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wait so if I buy a HDD from a Dutch company can I pirate all I want?

      I mean, I already paid them for the media right?

    2. Re:40 million too high? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can already download all you want in many non-americanized european countries, it was never illegal, only uploading was.

    3. Re:40 million too high? by tsa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Indeed, and that is what many people will do now. I hope this backfires tremendously. BREIN (the Dutch RIAA) is almost as bad as the American RIAA so they deserve it.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:40 million too high? by QuasiSteve · · Score: 2

      Yes, absolutely.

      The â5 levy on e.g. a mediarecorder grants you a lifetime (for the life of the product) right to download any and all music and video products you want. Rather than paying â2500 for 100 DVDs, or â200 for 100 â2 'rentals', â5 and you are set. ... okay, no - not really. No more than the existing levies of a few dimes on tapes, video cassettes, CD-Rs and DVD-Rs are payola for putting those 100 movies on your HTPC.

      The levy is a compensation measure for people copying, originating in the era of tapes. It's not a license to make those copies. And yes, it's a levy you pay even if you don't make copies - the alternative would be massive invasions of privacy to determine who is and who isn't making those copies. Or, of course, copyright reform - good luck with that one. Many of the same laws have been applied to the digital era* and with more people downloading to computers, 'MP3 players', etc. the levies on tapes and optical media were starting to be rather outdated.

      Then again, downloading of such material is already legal in NL - it's only uploading that is illegal, and even uploaders are basically not targeted. (* This, too, is a result of laws formulated way back when - don't see too many complaints this aspect, though.) Major sites and facilitators on the other hand, are a different story. Several usenet account resellers were booted off by PayPal (while holding on to funds), for example - most likely after complaints by rights holders: http://tweakers.net/nieuws/85659/paypal-sluit-nederlandse-usenet-resellers-af.html

      Note: This (the levy) is actually something being handed down from the EU level.. with the usual vague terms, causing each member state to implement things differently and leaving the courts to decide whether the implementation is in accordance, etc.

  2. Germany by tsa · · Score: 4, Informative

    Many people in the Netherlands now buy their electronics in Germany, where it's much cheaper thanks to less tax and the absence of this ridiculous levy.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Germany by QuasiSteve · · Score: 2

      Many people have traditionally bought goods in Germany where it's much cheaper thanks to lower prices to begin with. Whereas Germany is stuck at 19% VAT, NL upped it to 21% recently.

      On a E500 device, that means in Germany you'd pay E595, and in NL you'd add E605. If you add the levy of E5, that's E610. E15 is often barely worth it due to added delivery costs.

      The thing is that in Germany the base price of the device isn't E500 in the first place. It might be something like E450. Now you're talking actual savings.

      Why is it cheaper? Plenty of reasons that could be cited. Storage space is certainly a lot cheaper (for the same reasons housing in DE is a lot cheaper than it is in NL and a lot of Dutch people who lived near the border anyway have no problems relocating to DE.. to a bigger house.. with more land.. and lower costs), transport costs are lower, even translation of e.g. manuals is a lot more cost-efficient for the DE market than it is for NL (+Northern part of BE).

      The absence of a levy would barely make a difference in purchasing decisions for these high-valued goods. People have been buying stacks of CD-Rs and DVD-Rs from Germany-based resellers, though. The levy there can certainly add up to a significant portion.

    2. Re:Germany by TeslaBoy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      True. This is all a little pointless in a free market zone as we in Holland can just order online from abroad, in the same currency, with nominal delivery fees. Amazon, for example, deliver from Germany for free on orders over 25 euro, which is pretty much any computer component or decent-sized order of blank media.

  3. There is benefit for the consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    According to the article:

    Presently, the Dutch see downloading and copying movies and music for personal use as “fair use” and not punishable by law.

    I wouldn't mind paying an additional $2 for an MP3 player if it made all the ridiculous RIAA / MPAA lawsuits go away.

  4. In Belgium it is the same by SilenceBE · · Score: 2

    It is a ridiculous levy as you pay for your right to make home copies of the media you own. But really it is just a way to get money in the pockets of the entertainment industry that are the recipients of what is collected through these "Auvibel" taxes. Here in Belgium it was the works of Fientje Moerman of the liberal party OpenVLD that started this shenigans with their auvibel taxes. OpenVLD has a lot of ties with the entertainment industry or media in its whole.

    You pay for example 50 eurocent of taxes on an empty DVD. But 99% of the DVD productions are protected by anti copying measures. It is is illegal by Belgian law to circumvent those measures so in reality you can't execute that right which you pay for and that goes into the pockets of the entertainment industry...

    When they started those taxes justice went in high gear (as a victim of abuse I can tell you that for other cases they aren't that fast... ) and threatened every single shop (even in our neighboring countries for example as a Belgian it is impossible to order blank media in the UK, germany, ... ) or people selling blank media on ebay with lawsuits for tax evasion, etc.

    In the end they totally destroyed the industry or sales of blank media in this country and a lot of people bought external hard drives that didn't had those taxes at the time. Now you pay on a HDD or usb stick larget then 1GB, 9 euro's / 11 dollars.

  5. Think of the artists by junkgoof · · Score: 2

    And the levies go to the artists of course. A whole 0% of them. Yup, the artists are totally taken care of.

    --
    You got me into this! You were the ideologue! I'm only a poor assassin! - Twenty evocations, Bruce Sterling
  6. I've got an idea by Progman3K · · Score: 2

    Fuck these guys.

    The media companies do NOT compensate artists with any of the money collected, so their principal reason for getting this money is invalid.

    As for their lost profits, study after study proves that file-copying actually increases their sales.

    Screw them, we need to get rid of these leeches.

    --
    I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
  7. BREIN vs RIAA by QuasiSteve · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, Stichting BREIN is a different kind of evil.

    Although it's difficult to say which is more bad, I'm inclined to say that the RIAA is certainly worse.

    Whereas the RIAA will happily target individuals and use their techniques to coerce people into paying a settlement fine rather than going through lengthy and very expensive litigation - and generally having the defendant end up paying great multiples of the settlement amounts... ...Stichting BREIN tends to target the entry points to distribution. I.e. TPB and various other torrent (indexing) sites, MasterNZB and various other usenet (indexing) sites.

    The reason it's difficult to say which is worse is that while the RIAA goes after dead people, old grannies without computers, cats, etc. they do tend to 'only' target those people and there's no great erosion of fundamental concepts of copyright and the internet.

    Stichting BREIN, on the other hand, has successfully managed to get courts to force ISPs to block sites, in one case even being allowed to add IPs to the list and the ISP must add those to the block list (though they can contest it if they feel the adding of an IP address is in err), has successfully managed to expand things from direct copyright infringement to the 'facilitating' argument (and continues to expand that), can happily get government officials to come along with them on 'raids' (no court order) making those they're raiding feel like they really have little choice but to allow e.g. computers to be taken, etc.

    That said, BREIN isn't really the one to be targeting in this case. They just tend to catch the most flak (for the reasons outlined above). Stichting de Thuiskopie, SONT and Buma/Stemra (on the side of wanting levies) and STOBI (on the side of blank media producers/etc.) are the main players here , along with then-minister Fred Teeven for actually getting things signed into law a long time ago (an zero Euro levy, which formed the bridge to making it a non-zero Euro levy - whereas going directly for a non-zero Euro levy would have met with great resistance).

  8. Re:Silly taxation schemes by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

    I'm not so sure about that. A song is maybe 4 MB. According to this article with proper storage mechanisms, you can store about 500,000 bytes on a single sheet of paper using a 600 dpi printer. And that's just using black and white. Add in support for multiple colors and you could probably easily encode most MP3 files on a page or two. Even without color, you could fit a 4 MB song on 8 pages. Not a single page, but hardly a box.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  9. about time by Nyder · · Score: 2

    Now the fight isn't about consumers against the RIAA & MIAA, but other corporations are starting to feel the pinch of the bullshit that the RIAA and MIAA have been representing.

    This is good, because sooner or later it will hopefully wake up everyone to that fact that the RIAA and MIAA need a new business model, one that doesn't involve suing consumers.

    --
    Be seeing you...