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US Judge Orders Apple To Share HTC Deal Details With Samsung
another random user writes with this news from the BBC: "A U.S. judge has ordered Apple to disclose details of its patent-sharing deal with HTC to its rival, Samsung. Apple and HTC signed a 10-year licence agreement earlier this month, but did not make the details public. Samsung, which is also involved in various patent disputes with Apple, asked the courts to tell Apple to furnish the information. It said it was 'almost certain' the deal covered some of the patents at the centre of its dispute with Apple. The court ordered Apple to produce a full copy of the settlement agreement 'without delay,' subject to an 'attorneys' eyes only' designation, meaning it will not be made public."
Let's start a pool for how long it takes for this "attorneys' eyes only" document to be "accidentally" leaked to the public. I'm going to take 3 days.
But folks still say this [closed] American judicial system "is the best!"
History shows again and again how nature points up the folly of man !! Godzilla !!
make that
Apple !!
... when, instead of competing fairly and squarely with Samsung, they decided to drag Samsung's Galaxy products through the courts and get their sales banned in several different territories, including several European countries. Samsung's products are well priced, well designed, well manufactured and ooze a sense of "quality" overall, while Apple is more of an "electronics fashion brand" in its marketing approach, catering to i-fanboys and i-fangirls who'll buy anyhing branded "Apple". ------ Face it, Apple: You cannot compete with a behemoth like Samsung by trying to twist the courts/the law to your advantage. Put some proper innovation on the market before Samsung, which makes seriously good products, rolls right over you... Good luck to you, because Samsung are seriously good at product design...
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
I'm surprised companies don't use it to leak damaging corporate intel about competitors.
Why would it matter to Samsung if the deal between Apple and HTC concerns some patents that are in dispute? I could understand HTC being concerned that the agreement might be unfair as they could get less than they hoped, but what does it matter to Samsung? Can't they just wait until the patent dispute is resolved then sue HTC if it turns out they are using some Samsung-patented technology they got from Apple?
Truth is stranger than fiction...
http://imgur.com/gallery/Swtc9
I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
Then, if Samsung is able to read it, Apple will be able to say they copied iOS!
#DeleteChrome
why would they have to? if the information is damning there are ways to release it publicly via the trial without it being "Accidental".
stomping around the universe.
Best not to be underfoot during this battle.
So the question remains, which one is Samsung, and which Apple ?
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
Apple claims that patents in question are so valuable, that you can not price them in money. Therefore (according to Apple), Samsung products should be banned from the market. Samsung wants to prove that Apple sold those patents to HTC and therefore they have monetary price. If they have a price, Samsung products should not be banned. Even if the product is found to be infringing, Samsung would have to pay money instead of having banned product.
Eventually, make this whole patent/licensing/royalty an open market. The gov't grants you a patent. Fine. You get to decide what its worth. No problem. So, put up a 'For Sale' sign. You want $X per unit to use your technology. You accept that price from any buyers.
This would go a long way toward ending patents as a club to selectively beat competitors over the head. And once we put a stop to that nonsense, companies will be a lot less enamored with their patent portfolios.
Have gnu, will travel.
. . . it's being litigated in courts.
Wanna make a big impact in the tech industry . . . ?
Study law, not engineering.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
No, it's probably all about the actual terms - they want to know if Apple, in their previous negotiations, has been trying to get Samsung to pay significantly more than the value used when calculating the HTC-Apple agreements.
#DeleteChrome
erm.. you think maybe that Samsung are happy to get it dealt with in one single go, and not go on a patent rampage like apple are doing and being total fucking asshats about?
dealing with it like this Samsung can then find that Apple quite possibly extorted a deal from HTC based on patents they don't own.. that would not be HTC's fault but apples.
Why would it matter to Samsung if the deal between Apple and HTC concerns some patents that are in dispute?
Apple has alleged that Samsung has caused them 'irreparable harm' by violating their patents, and has requested (and in somes cases gotten) injunctions against Samsung products in several cases now.
Samsungs counter argument is essentially:
(disputed assumption 1) Assuming your patents are valid, and (disputed assumption 2) Assuming we infringed those patents, then: its still not irreparable harm. Apple settled with HTC on those same patents which suggests that infringing those patents isn't irreparable, and that money can 'repair' the harm after all, and that therefore an injunction isn't needed.
Of course its all moot if Samsung is able to get assumption 1 or 2 invalidated, but they're fighting this case at every level.
Or just merge them all into a single company.
Apple gives HTC a good deal because there isn't as much of a mess in the courts with them vs Samsung. Then Samsung wants the info so they can claim that the award Apple got was too large. Nice. Sorry but companies can sell things to customers at different prices for whatever reason they want including but not limited to how much of a jerk you are.
See:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012112121031884 .
For those too lazy to follow a link, here is the gist:
"Earlier this month Samsung asked that the court force Apple to turn over its settlement agreement with HTC, and today US Magistrate Judge Paul S. Grewal granted that requested. According to Samsung, the document could play a vital role in determining whether it will need to take any of its products off the market in the wake of the $1.049 billion verdict Apple won back in August. If Apple licensed some of its unique user experience patents, Samsung argues, then Cupertino is clearly fine with competitors using that IP as long as it receives money in return â" and since Apple will be receiving a payout in connection with the verdict, the extra step of an injunction isn't justified."
In plain text: Apple: no injunctions for you and drop the damages you ask to what you can actually negotiate in the marketplace.
Want to bet that Apple isn't at all happy about this?
... in *ANY* of these lawsuits. (Don't forget, there are a whole lot more companies throwing suits around in the mobile space than just Apple and Sansung.) If those previously-confidentail settlements can be dragged out into the public courts; there's no longer a way for the companies involved to come to a cease fire that allows both sides to save face.
Without that ability, watch all parties go for nothing but the full-out nuclear option in the future. There's no reason to do anything else.
Imagine all the people...
let Apple, Samsung, and the judge find it out from their own preferred newspapers, and then we'll REALLY get this battle on from all the, uh, hmm, perceived spins put on strictly running the wire copy without changing a comma. it'll be like locking them all in a room and never opening the door after the noise stops.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Since both to these companies issued publicly traded shares of stock, they should be legally obliged by the SEC to disclose the exact nature of these settlements to the shareholders.
I don't think that would work very well.
Samsung is one of the largest manufactures in the world and sells components to just about every other company in the world. They have something in virtually every TV, computer, cellphone, tablet... Name a modern electrical appliance and it probably has Samsung part in it.
Apple is a designer brand that only sells finished products to consumers.
I still don't see how this helps Samsung at all.
It came out in the previous trial that Apple tried to get Samsung to license these patents and Samsung said "screw you".
Only after a court punished Samsung for their blatant infringement do they seem interested in licensing.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem right for a company to derive benefit from infringement, get a slap in the wrist, and then retroactively say "ok, we'll play fair now". I mean, isn't that exactly the bullshit that banks have been pulling for years much to everyone's chagrin?
They refused to license several patents.
They never attempted to license *all* of their patents to Samsung. (if any)
It should also be noted that, in case it wasn't already obvious, HTC is much smaller than Samsung in the mobile space. It thus would not be hypocritical or illogical for Apple to be able to assert that Samsung caused irreparable harm while HTC did not, since if Samsung displaced a significant amount of market share that would have otherwise gone to Apple, Apple would indeed be irreparably harmed, given that they will likely never recover that. In contrast, losing a miniscule amount to HTC is something that can be easily recovered.
Nonetheless, I do think it's fair for Samsung to challenge Apple's arguments on this basis. I merely wanted to point out that there is not necessarily an attempt at having it both ways on Apple's part (which is something they have been guilty of in the past).
It helps because there are patents apple states it cannot and will not license to others because of the harm it would cause them. If they licensed them to HTC then that proves at worst they were wrong, and at worst they lied to the court.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
Is this fair to HTC, or does it give Samsung a further competitive advantage over them, given that they probably had something to gain in their agreement with Apple and keeping it from Samsung's eyes? HTC need all the help they can get.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Sometimes hating something is correct.
It is a very risky argument to make that licensing to HTC is acceptable and to Samsung is not. The license is a product. It has to have a single price. If you don't have a single price and especially given the size of the company you are engaged in anti-competitive price fixing and market manipulation ... You do see where this argument is going, right?
It should also be noted that, in case it wasn't already obvious, HTC is much smaller than Samsung in the mobile space. It thus would not be hypocritical or illogical for Apple to be able to assert that Samsung caused irreparable harm while HTC did not
That's fair, but things do get a bit weird when something is 'for sale' to one customer but not to another. Its ok to negotiate different prices for different customers... but to tell one customer the product isn't for sale to them at any price can get one in trouble, especially if you are in a monopoly position -- which is precisely what a patent grants the holder.
That's it exactly. Considering how truly brutal this has been so far, I fully expect the Samsung lawyers to go in hard on the 'lying to the court on the value of the patents' aspect of it. It's not just that they were willing to put some value, but the actual amount. Apple valued it at 20-30 bucks in the court, if it also turns out that it was a few cents, that brings the billion dollar settlement down to 'oh, is that all? here, let me rummage in my pocket for some loose change' territory (at least in Samsung scale). I'm sure that the Judge Koh will let them roll over this as usual, but the appeal is going to be hilarious.
Waiting for an amusing sig.