Police Raid Home of 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay User, Seize "Winnie the Pooh" Laptop

zacharye writes "Copyright enforcement might be getting out of hand in Scandinavia. As anti-piracy groups and copyright owners continue to work with authorities to curtail piracy in the region, police this week raided the home of a 9-year-old suspect and confiscated her "Winnie the Pooh" laptop. TorrentFreak reports that the girl's home was raided after local anti-piracy group CIAPC determined copyrighted files had been downloaded illegally at her residence. Her father, the Internet service account holder, was contacted by CIAPC, which demanded that he pay a 600 euro fine and sign a non-disclosure agreement to settle the matter. When the man did not comply, authorities raided his home and collected evidence, including his 9-year-old daughter's notebook computer."

Comments

Sensational!

[Frosty Piss]

A pretty sensationalist summary of what can only be charitably described as an article, which itself is long on innuendo but short on actual, you know, "facts".

All that can really be said is that they raided the guys house and among other things took the childâ(TM)s laptop. There is no evidence in this story that the child was the primary suspect or even a suspect at all.

The most that can really be said is the 600 euro fine (and the non-disclosure agreement) is absurd for what the alleged crime is.

Re:Sensational!

[Swampash]

Big Media, winning hearts and minds.

Re:Sensational!

[Cruciform]

I remember when a member of an abandonware IRC channel got raided back in the late 90s. They took his game consoles, music CDs, and anything they felt like "as evidence".
Never did find out what came of that. Seemed like a lot of effort wasted on someone whose big thing was collecting classic games like Alley Cat.

Re:Sensational!

[Anonymous Coward]

From reading the story it seems like the father admitted that the daughter tried to download some songs but was unable to because the download failed for some reason so they went out and the CD she wanted. While I don't agree with the way the music industry handles all of this I don't pirate content because I don't want to deal with this crap. But on the same note I buy very very very little music now. I used to buy CDs or when itunes came out albums all the time at least one a month. Now I'm lucky if I buy one song a year.

Re:Sensational!

[ThatsMyNick]

The girl was one that tried to download copyrighted material. She did not know what she was doing was illegal. She tired to google it, and came across pirate bay. Read the TorrentFreak article. It is more informative.

Re:Sensational!

[Anonymous Coward]

According to TorrentFreak, the girl tried to download a number of songs by Finnish pop star Chisu using The Pirate Bay, where she was led after searching for the songs on Google (GOOG). The downloads failed, according to the girl’s father, and the two went to a local store the following day to purchase a Chisu album. ISPs working with CIAPC flagged the activity, however, and the group’s anti-piracy procedures went into effect.

Emphasis added.

Re:Sensational!

[Zemran]

No one should be expected to sign a non disclosure agreement in relation to something like this. I would also refuse. If I had in fact been downloading stuff in a country where downloading is not allowed, I would consider the 600 Euro settlement but to be asked to sign away any right to argue to legality or fairness of my treatment should be illegal.

Re:Sensational!

[ozmanjusri]

Additionally and to add to the absurdity of the CIAPC response:

Indeed upon hearing about the situation Chisu apologized to the 9-year-old and pointed to a link on Spotify where her music can be played for free"

http://www.techspot.com/news/50888-police-raid-targets-9-year-old-pirate-winnie-the-pooh-laptop-seized.html

Re:Sensational!

[game kid]

Never did find out what came of that. Seemed like a lot of effort wasted on someone whose big thing was collecting classic games like Alley Cat.

What do you mean? They now have his game consoles, music CDs, and anything they felt like taking "as evidence". The effort paid off (for the raiders)!

Re:Sensational!

[jimmosk]

Hey, reddit's good enough for President Obama...
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1c9z/i_am_barack_obama_president_of_the_united_states/

Re:Sensational!

[GumphMaster]

The most that can really be said is the 600 euro fine (and the non-disclosure agreement) is absurd for what the alleged crime is.

I agree it is absurd, but not because of the amount involved. It's not a 600 Euro fine levied by a court after due process, but an extortion payment to a private enterprise. The NDA is designed to ensure that similar extortion targets cannot challenge assertions on the part of the extorter such as, "Everyone settles for 600 Euros," or "Fifty-thousand people thought it better to settle than fight." The NDA also serves as part of the threat: dare to go public about our extortion racket and we will sue you into the stone age for breach of contract. Suing for breach of contract is a much easier target. The sooner we start treating the extortive threat of legal action as a crime the better.

Re:Sensational!

[DeeEff]

Not only is she 9 years old, but she never actually SUCCESSFULLY pirated anything. She never broke any law.

Furthermore, her father took her to the store and actually PAID FOR THE CONTENT the very next day. 600 Euros in damages for a crime that wasn't committed claiming damages that were.... what? How were they damaged? They didn't even lose a sale. So I guess this whole thing is bollocks then, and there should be no reason for them to raid a home and start taking things on a whim.

Re:Sensational!

[Anubis IV]

I hope this is one of those moments where you're about to slap your forehead when you realize just what you said, but Chisu pointed the girl to Spotify, which is a completely above-board music streaming service that's widely used by millions upon millions of people and that pays royalty fees. I think it's kinda assumed that everyone at Slashdot knows what Spotify is, since it's pretty well-known and has come up here on a number of occasions. So, Chisu pointed the girl to a place where the girl could access the music legally and for free. It's not at all like the analogy you drew.

Re:Sensational!

[thej1nx]

Just quoting a few nuggets that were the basis of having copyrights at all

.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries".

Thomas Jefferson : Art. 9. Monopolies may be allowed to persons for their own productions in literature and their own inventions in the arts for a term not exceeding — years but for no longer term and no other purpose.[9]

Copyright Act of 1976 : Barbara Ringer, the U.S. Register of Copyrights, called the new law "a balanced compromise that comes down on the authors' and creators' side in almost every instance.

So a question here... did RIAA sing this song? Because all the instances I can find(I quoted a few above), say that copyright laws were pushed on pretext of protecting authors, inventors and creators. But here you are coming and advocating that the an author/creator should be persecuted for infringing "their own" creations. Unless, you can point out the songs that RIAA and MPAA executives sang along with her. I am waiting. Go ahead...

The mills that produce the paper I use for making a painting, the middlemen I hire for something, the marketing firm I hire to promote my products, should have ZERO rights to prosecute me criminally over "infringing" my own creations. If you advocate for laws to PROMOTE progress of science and other useful Arts, then you should also PROHIBIT and deem conflicting any laws that DISSUADE progress of science and other useful Arts by allowing original creators themselves to be imprisoned and fined millions for "copyright infingment", instead of just being sued for a breach of contract for exact/actual damages caused.

And if you are seriously advocating to pay the police and prison employees from PUBLIC tax money, to protect and enforce the interests of PRIVATE corporates... instead of taking the usual civil suits route... you have to be either a RIAA/MPAA crony or certifiably batshit insane.

Re:Sensational!

[thej1nx]

And if you are seriously advocating to pay the police and prison employees from PUBLIC tax money, to protect and enforce the interests of PRIVATE corporates... instead of taking the usual civil suits route... you have to be either a RIAA/MPAA crony or certifiably batshit insane

.
...or of course, a US senator, who are usually both.

Re:Sensational!

[hsa]

Hi!

The story is based on Facebook posts, which are in Finnish. Luckily, I am a Finnish person, and here is my take:

1) TTVK allegedly posts a Pirate Bay Torrent with latest cd from the Finnish artist Chisu (crappy music, that appeals to youth)
2) This guy claims his daughter downloaded it while "googling for test samples for album she didn't have money to buy at the time"
3) TTVK sends an angry letter, demanding 600 euros and demanding that you sign NDA about the agreement to pay
4) Police comes to raid the man's home, several months later, taking only the laptop of his daughter, and saying things like "just pay the bill, it is not that much" and "if you pay, we will go away and leave you alone"
5) Guy decides to fight it, does not sign the NDA and makes a Facebook post
6) Kukilainen from TTVK makes a note saying, "we only track IPs and we will take this to court"
7) Artist posts on her Facebook page "I don't want to sue my fans, but I think these TTVK guys are not so bad as you think"
8) Anti-piracy party in Finland blames the artists for not taking a stand, praises the guy for his heroism and demanding law reforms
9) Police makes a statement, that they are investing the father's part in this and it becomes clear, that the guy own's a bar and has live performances - so he should be aware of intellectual property rights.

The general atmosphere here in Finland is, that artists and contributors generally do want compensation, want this particular case to go away , and TTVK to resume business as usual and normal people are waking up to reality of our crappy copyright laws. One university law professor stated, that legistlation is a result from lobbying campaign from TTVK and should not ever have passed in its current form.

Links:
http://antipiracy.fi/inenglish/

Re:Sensational!

[vlad30]

Are your sure it was the police ? Lets see

1) Obtain Police looking uniform

2) print out official looking warrants

3) raid house and collect desirables

4) profit

Hmmm no ??? step the gnomes would be proud

Dear CIAPC

[Ralph Spoilsport]

FUCK YOU.

Get it right.

[Lumpy]

Its a home invasion, not a raid.. Stop sugar coating police activity.

Re:Get it right.

[fredprado]

Not there. In Finland it is not a criminal offence and the police clearly ignored the law and did what their owners (the corporations) wanted them to do, thus the need for the non-disclosure agreement. Now it remains to be seen if the courts will follow the law or blatantly ignore it and just do as they want like in the Piratebay trial in Sweden.

Re:Get it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not stealing, jackass.

Re:Get it right.

[Drishmung]

Agree!

Oh, you are referring to the theft of the laptop, aren't you?

Re:Get it right.

[Albanach]

As in most places in the world, downloading is not a crime.

A lot of file sharing software is designed to upload simultaneously with the download. BitTorrent would be a popular example.

Scandinavia, the great country!

[hyfe]

Seriously, this so-called article doesn't even state which country it happended in.. nor does any of the links in it.

I live in Norway, in this certainly hasn't hit the news here.. and if it did, you can be damn sure there would be hell to pay for somebody. Our authorities are so fucking nice that even after Breivik blew up our government headquarters and shot around 80 kids.. one by one.. we still hadn't scrambled the military or even gotten choppers in the air. I honestly suspect if our police (who don't have guns) tried to take a 9 year old girls laptop they would comply when she kicked them and told them go away :)

Re:Scandinavia, the great country!

[LucidBeast]

Happened in Finland

Re:Scandinavia, the great country!

[hyfe]

I honestly suspect if our police (who don't have guns) tried to take a 9 year old girls laptop they would comply when she kicked them and told them go away :)

Oh, and I wouldn't have it any other way.. damn proud of it in fact.

Re:Scandinavia, the great country!

[del_diablo]

Now... now... Scandinavia is several terms:
The core: Norway, Sweden and Denmark
The extended: +Finland, +Iceland.
Finland may or may not be a part of Scandinavia depending on who you are talking to.

Re:Scandinavia, the great country!

[uvajed_ekil]

The "article," which is not really an article but more of a brief opinion blurb that paraphrases an article, says Scandinavia. However, this happened in Finland, which is NOT Scandinavian no matter how many people wrongly think so. The FInnish language does not share a common origin with Scandinavian languages, and it has been quite a long time since FInland was ruled by Sweden, with Russian rule between that and Finnish independence. Sure, it is near Scandinavia, and the Sami have long lived throughout the region and across modern borders, but Finland has much less in common with Sweden, Norway, and Denmark than those three countries and populations share with each other.

Anyway, the link and quote should have referred to the original story, which was a bit more detailed and accurate.

Re:Scandinavia, the great country!

[upside]

You're right. Linguistically Finnish is totally unrelated, for example Swedish and Russian are closer to each other than Finnish is to either of them. However, Finland shares the same mix of politics, economics, culture and religion with other Nordic countries, which is distinct from other parts of Europe and the world.

Non-disclosure?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the suspect part. Why would they want the father to sign a non-disclosure agreement? How is fining the man a deterrent to others if they never hear about it?

These are rhetorical questions of course, as its obvious why.

Direct link

[aNonnyMouseCowered]

The "article" mostly quotes from Torrent Freak. Here's the longer source:

http://torrentfreak.com/police-raid-9-year-old-pirate-bay-girl-confiscate-winnie-the-pooh-laptop-121122/

Re:Direct link

[Mitreya]

Thank you for the link
It's the tidbits like this that make me feel warm and fuzzy about copyright and police:

"It would have been easier for all concerned if you had paid the compensation," the police advised

Any other law violation you either get searched/charged or let off the hook.
How about next time you are charged with (actual) theft, someone calls you first and offers to pay 600 euros to avoid the hassle? Why is this a valid option for copyright violation accusations?

Re:Direct link

[Anonymous Coward]

Having failed in her quest to put enough money in her piggy bank to buy the latest album from local multi-platinum-selling songstress Chisu, in 2011 she turned to the Internet, first via Google and then The Pirate Bay.

So, by herself, the 9-year old installed a torrent application and navigated to Pirate Bay... Yes, sure she did.

Again, why sensationalize the story by pitting the Storm Troopers against a 9-year old, when common sense says that's not what happened?

Opera has a built-in torrent application and the kid has her own laptop... you think she's been using it as a pillow? At that age I was copying and playing cracked C64 games with little clue of the english language so I'm pretty sure she'd manage google and a few clicks to get started.

Re:Direct link

[v1]

Any other law violation you either get searched/charged or let off the hook.
How about next time you are charged with (actual) theft, someone calls you first and offers to pay 600 euros to avoid the hassle? Why is this a valid option for copyright violation accusations?

Unfortunately, "any other law" doesn't apply here. This is a civil violation, not a criminal one. Its not theft, it's copyright violation. It's extortion to demand money not to turn someone in for a criminal violation, but in civil matters you are free to offer a deal in exchange for not pressing charges. In criminal cases, the D.A. is the one pressing the charges, and in civil cases it's the plaintiff's lawyer, which is why they have the option.

The plaintiffs aren't the problem here. The police aren't the problem either. The plaintiffs are simply taking advantage of the law as written for their own benefit, and the police are just playing along by the rules as required. It's the Bad Law that's to blame. You can't blame companies and greedy people for being greedy, it's what they DO. You can't blame the police for enforcing the law, it's also what they DO. The only one to blame is your legislator, who created the Bad Law, whom you voted in. That means blame yourself, and work to get the laws changed.

Re:Direct link

[Delarth799]

Because a lot of the time they don't have much if any actual evidence to stand on so the threaten people with letters and most just pay to avoid further hassle. Then they are forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement which most likely has a clause about not talking about the settlement thus allowing everything to be swept under the rug.

Re:Direct link

[rtb61]

Of course you can blame them, the whole idea that it is OK to bend laws so far out of shape that they only serve they psychopathically greedy is a OK, is insane, as insane as those douche who exploit the law. Blame the crap out of the, avoid the products, find the actual individuals involved and make their lives a misery just like they want to do to the rest of us. "NAME AND SHAME".

Re:Direct link

[grcumb]

She can't be that smart... she got caught didn't she? :)

This time. The test will be to measure what havoc she wreaks on her tormentors once she gets her new My Little Pony rig and goes all Princess Digital on their asses.

Re:Direct link

[grcumb]

She can't be that smart... she got caught didn't she? :)

This time. The test will be to measure what havoc she wreaks on her tormentors once she gets her new My Little Pony rig and goes all Princess Digital on their asses.

Well... My Little Pwnie, actually....

Re:Direct link

[Mitreya]

This is a civil violation, not a criminal one. ... It's extortion to demand money not to turn someone in for a criminal violation, but in civil matters you are free to offer a deal in exchange for not pressing charges. ... You can't blame the police for enforcing the law, it's also what they DO.

Sorry, you are not making sense.

Yes, you can offer a deal in civil violation cases, but you certainly do not get to call in police to back you up if the opponent turns down the deal.

Please decide -- either it's a criminal violation (then the police are enforcing the law and 600 euro get-out-of -jail bribe is ridiculous) or it is a civil violation (and in that case what "law" is police enforcing, exactly?). I thought it was criminal, since police raided their house.

Re:Direct link

[sjames]

If you think a 9 year old can't manage it, I suggest that it is you who needs to join us here in the real world.

Re:Direct link

[Mitreya]

Actually that's exactly how it works. You don't call the police directly like you're reporting robbery though. Your lawyers see a judge and file charges and obtain a warrant. THEN the police get involved and go to the defendant and gather evidence.

I am not a lawyer, and this is a different country we are talking about. But I was under the impression that you have to actually sue the opposing party in civil court _first_. Then warrant may be given to perform discovery of whatever judge allows you to discover

Otherwise where exactly would this evidence go to? Some evidence is sent directly to the judge (and there is no judge).

It would be pretty hilarious if the police can just take the girl's laptop directly to the (civilly) suing party. Do they (CIAPC) have to give the laptop back? How long do they have to preform discovery? Does police perform their own forensic analysis during a civil lawsuit?

Re:Direct link

[mcmadman]

Actually that's exactly how it works. You don't call the police directly like you're reporting robbery though. Your lawyers see a judge and file charges and obtain a warrant. THEN the police get involved and go to the defendant and gather evidence. Those extra steps are required, in theory, to make sure that a crime is likely taking place before the police get involved. At some point a judge approved this raid before it happened. The plaintiff presented evidence to support their claim, had their i's dotted and t's crossed, got the warrant, and in came the cops. That's sometimes how civil cases go.

Well as far as the Finnish laws go, the investigating police officer can issue a search warrant for anyone's home if there is "a reasonable suspicion". Whatever this "reasonable suspicion" can be, is up to anyone's guess. No need for a judge just yet. This procedure shows just how rotten a police state this country has become.

Re:Direct link

[dropadrop]

Any other law violation you either get searched/charged or let off the hook. How about next time you are charged with (actual) theft, someone calls you first and offers to pay 600 euros to avoid the hassle? Why is this a valid option for copyright violation accusations?

Unfortunately, "any other law" doesn't apply here. This is a civil violation, not a criminal one. Its not theft, it's copyright violation. It's extortion to demand money not to turn someone in for a criminal violation, but in civil matters you are free to offer a deal in exchange for not pressing charges. In criminal cases, the D.A. is the one pressing the charges, and in civil cases it's the plaintiff's lawyer, which is why they have the option.

The plaintiffs aren't the problem here. The police aren't the problem either. The plaintiffs are simply taking advantage of the law as written for their own benefit, and the police are just playing along by the rules as required. It's the Bad Law that's to blame. You can't blame companies and greedy people for being greedy, it's what they DO. You can't blame the police for enforcing the law, it's also what they DO. The only one to blame is your legislator, who created the Bad Law, whom you voted in. That means blame yourself, and work to get the laws changed.

Well actually the police are partially to blame here. While a warrant is not required to confiscate computers from somebody's home in Finnish law, search is researved for cases that could produce 6 months in jail and cause "significant damage". The police has decided that downloading 1 cd caused significant damage and could result in 6 months of jail which required quite creative reasoning from them.

for the last time

[alienzed]

It's not theft if the original owner still has it.

Re:for the last time

[KiloByte]

The laptop's owner no longer has it. So a theft did occur, under false colour of law.

EXTORTION, real honest to goodness extortion

[Anonymous Coward]

If I threaten to reveal a crime you did, and demand money in exchange, that's extortion.

Which is exactly the problem with these 'dual' laws. The police become the arm of an extortion racket, where the reason for paying up is the threat of a police raid.

What CIAPC did WAS EXTORTION, because they could not offer him immunity from a copyright infringement claim or criminal claim against him. Their claim to pay up 600 euros or they go to the police is therefore cleancut extortion. The NDA is confirmation that they know its extortion.

I bet she was running a honey pot.

[PDX]

I bet the kid was running a honey pot. What else was a Pooh to do?

Note to law enforcement

[sjames]

If you find yourself taking a Winnie the Pooh laptop from a 9 year old, you've probably gone over a line or two somewhere.

They sure showed her

[Arancaytar]

It takes real balls to go up against such a dangerous criminal and intimidate her.

The holy grail

[alexo]

Big Media, winning hearts and minds.

The holy grail of the middleman is to set himself up to be the gate keeper of an essential good or service.

Since monopolizing access to air, water, food or sex did not pan out, they went after the next thing -- culture.
And, I must admit, with great success. With the eager participation of most (if not all) "free" national governments, partaking in your own culture is no longer free, and the full force of the state is applied against those who would dare to oppose this "arrangement".

Have no doubt, there is a lot of wealth and power involved and, given their corrupting influence, things will only get worse in time.
Nothing short of a violent and bloody revolution can reverse this trend.