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How Do We Program Moral Machines?

nicholast writes "If your driverless car is about to crash into a bus, should it veer off a bridge? NYU Prof. Gary Marcus has a good essay about the need to program ethics and morality into our future machines. Quoting: 'Within two or three decades the difference between automated driving and human driving will be so great you may not be legally allowed to drive your own car, and even if you are allowed, it would immoral of you to drive, because the risk of you hurting yourself or another person will be far greater than if you allowed a machine to do the work. That moment will be significant not just because it will signal the end of one more human niche, but because it will signal the beginning of another: the era in which it will no longer be optional for machines to have ethical systems.'"

17 of 604 comments (clear)

  1. Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I maintain that you CAN'T really program morality into a machine (it's hard enough to program it into a human). And I also doubt that engineers will ever really be able to overcome the numerous technical issues involved with driverless cars. But above these two problems, far and away above *all* problems with driverless cars is the real reason I think we'll never see anything more than driver *assisting* cars on the road: legal liability.

    To put it bluntly, raise your hand if YOU want to be the first car manufacturer to make a car for which you are potentially liable in *every single accident that car ever gets into*, from the day it's sold until the day it's scrapped. Any takers? How much would you have to add onto the sticker price to cover the costs of going to court every single time that particular car was involved in an accident? Of defending the efficacy of your driverless system against other manufacturer's systems (and against defect, and against the word of the driver himself that he was using the system properly) in one liability case after another?

    According to Forbes, the average driver is involved in an accident every 18 years. Let's suppose (and I'm sure the statisticians would object to this supposition) that that means that the average CAR is also involved in a wreck every 18 years as well. Since the average age of a car is about 11 years now, it's not unreasonable to assume that a little less than half of all cars on the road will be involved in at least one accident in their functional lifetimes. And even with the added safety of driverless systems, the first model available will still have to contend with a road mostly filled with regular, non-driverless-system cars. So let's say that a good 25% of those first models will probably end up in an accident at some point, which will make a very tempting target for lawyers going for the deep pockets of their manufacturers.

    Again, what car company wouldn't take that into account when asking themselves if they want to be a pioneer in this field?

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What they're talking about here, though, isn't really programming morality into machines in some kind of sentient, Isaac-Asimov sense, but just programming decision policies into machines, which have ethical implications. The ethical questions come at the programming stage, when deciding what policies the automatic car should follow in various situations.

    2. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by CastrTroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is my exact reasoning why flying cars will never take off (pardon the pun). People keep their cars in terrible condition. If your car has an engine failure, worst case scenario, you pull over to the side of the road, or end up blocking traffic. In a flying vehicle, if your engine dies, It's very possible that you will die too. And if you are above a city, it's not impossible to imagine crashing into an innocent bystander.

      I imagine the same will be for self driving cars. It will never happen because if the car is getting bad information from its sensors, then crazy things can happen. People can't be bothered to clean more than 2 square inches from their windshield in the winter. Do you really think they are going to go around cleaning the 10 different sensors of ice and snow every winter morning? Sure the car could refuse to operate if the sensors are blocked, but then I guess people would just not want to buy the car, or complain to the dealer about it.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think your statistics on accidents are informative but you're missing an important point. With automated cars, we expect accident rates to go down significantly (so saith the summary). So the likelihood an _automated_ car will be _at fault_ in an accident is probably a lot lower than the 25% you presume. (The manufacturer does not care about accidents where the machine is not at fault, beyond complying with crash-safety requirements.)

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    4. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by crazyjj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So the likelihood an _automated_ car will be _at fault_ in an accident is probably a lot lower than the 25% you presume.

      Great. Now all you have to do is prove your system wasn't at fault in a court of law--against the sweet old lady who's suing, with the driver testifying that it was your system and not him that caused the accident, and a jury that hates big corporations. And you have to do it over and over again, in a constant barrage of lawsuits--almost one for every accident one of your cars ever gets in.

      Even if you won every single time, can you imagine the legal costs?

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    5. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by WarJolt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The funny thing is that most of the time you are in an airplane the autopilot(aka george) is in control. Even when you're landing ILS can in some cases land the plane on it's own. If you've ever been in a plane, chances are you have already put your life in the hands of a computer. I seriously doubt that 25% of the first models will get into accidents. With the new sensors that will be in these cars the computer will have a full 360 degree view of all visible objects. This is far more than a human can see. Furthermore computers can respond in a fraction of the time a human can.

      Training millions of humans to drive should be the far more scary proposition.
      Plus chances are you as an individual will be responsible for your car and the system designers and manufacturers will be able to afford good lawyers.

    6. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by Above · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, I think you're both missing the biggest issue by focusing on true accidents. I think the OP's point is legitimate, even in the face of your assertion that rates go down. Companies are still taking on the risk as they are now the "driver". While the liabilities of these situations is large, there is a situation that is much, much larger.

      What happens when there is a bug in the system? Think the liability is bad when one car has a short circuit and veers head on into another? Imagine if there is a small defect. There are plenty of examples, like the Mariner 1 crash, or the AT&T System Wide Crash in 1990. We've seen the lengths to witch companies will go to track down potentially common issues, like the Jeep Cherokee sudden acceleration, or the Toyota sudden acceleration issues because it has the potential to affect all cars. But let's imagine a future where all cars are driverless, and the accident rate is 1/100th of what it is now.

      What happens when there is a Y2K style date bug? When some sensor fails if the temperature drops below a particular point? When a semi-colon is forgotten in the code, and the radio broadcast that sends out notification of an accident causes thousands of cars to execute the same re-route routine with the messed up code all at the same time.

      There is the very real potential for thousands, or even millions of cars to all crash _simultaneously_. Imagine everyone on the freeway simply veering left all the sudden. That should be the manufacturers largest fear. Crashes one at a time can be litigated and explained away, the business can go on. The first car company that crashes a few thousands cars all at the same time in response to some input will be out of business in a New York minute.

    7. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by plover · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Even if you won every single time, can you imagine the legal costs?

      No, but I can imagine a change to the legal system limiting the liability of the manufacturers of self-driving cars.

      If we could know that self-driving cars reduce accidents by 95% (a not unrealistic amount), it would be morally wrong for us to not put them on the road. If the only hurdle the manufacturers had left was the liability issue, then it would be morally wrong for Congress to not change the laws.

      Of course, Congress has been morally bankrupt since, oh, about 1789, so I doubt that they'll see this as an imperative. On the other hand, I do imagine the car makers paying lobbyists and making campaign contributions to ensure that self-driving car manufacturers are exempted from these lawsuits, so it could still happen.

      --
      John
    8. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by kelemvor4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Meh. Companies already face this. If any one of the thousands of parts in your car fails and causes an accident, the manufacturer can (and usually does) get sued. Ask Toyota or Firestone how that plays out. All we're talking about here is another new part. If the internet was around when power steering or the automatic transmission were invented, I bet there would have been a similar discussion about those. I think the potential liability is a good thing, because otherwise manufacturers don't have much incentive to make safe products.

    9. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They get enough headaches from faulty accelerators. Can you imagine the legal problems they would get from programming hard ethical decisions into their computers?

      I see you've 1) never programmed and 2) You run Windows. I agree, I would never get in a Microsoft car considering their shoddy programming, but Microsoft would never manufacture a driverless car simply because of that.

      Almost all automotive accidents are caused by human failure. Sure, there are exceptions -- I was in a head on crash because of a blown tire, and a blown tire on a megabus killed someone a couple of months ago here in Illinois. But accidents from mechanical failure are rare.

      But people cause almost every accident. Have you seen how stupid people drive these days? They race from red light to red light as if they're actually going to get there faster that way. They get impatient. They don't pay attention. They get angry and do stupid things like speed, tailgate, suddenly switch lanes without looking, fumble with their radios, talk on their cell phones, get in a hurry... computers don't do that. There will be damned few if any accidents that are the computer's fault.

      Hell, just this morning on the news they showed a car crashing through a store, barely missing a toddler -- the idiot driver thought the car was in reverse. Had he been driving a computer-controlled car, that would have never happened.

    10. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by clintp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      To put it bluntly, raise your hand if YOU want to be the first car manufacturer to make a car for which you are potentially liable in *every single accident that car ever gets into*, from the day it's sold until the day it's scrapped. Any takers?

      ... no one. But you'll get plenty who charge mandatory tune-ups to ensure compliance. The question will be "which company DOESN'T charge a fee for a mandatory yearly check-up"?

      Asimov's early robot stories dealt frequently with corporate liability and it was often the source of the plot conflicts. If a proofreading robot made a mistake causing a slander ("Galley Slave") or an industrial accident resulted in injury, US Robotics was put into the position of having to prove that it was not the fault of the robot (which it never was).

      This is why Asimov's US Robotics didn't sell you a robot, they leased it to you. The lease was iron-clad, could be revoked by either party at any time, had liability clauses, and had mandatory maintenance and upgrades to be performed by US Robotics technicians. If you refused the maintenance US Robotics would repossess, sue and claim theft if you withheld ("Bicentennial Man", though unsuccessfully; "Satisfaction Guaranteed").

      A properly functioning robot would not disobey the three laws, and an improperly functioning robot was repaired or destroyed immediately ("Lost Little Robot"). Conflicts between types of harm were resolved using probability based on the best information available at the moment ("Runaround"), and usually resulted in the collapse of the positronic brain when it was safe to do so ("Robots and Empire", etc.).

      --
      Get off my lawn.
    11. Re:Why I doubt driverless cars will ever happen by lennier · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can you imagine the legal problems they would get from programming hard ethical decisions into their computers?

      FUNCTION EthicalCheckForPedestrians() ' Replaces old CheckForPedestrians() with new ethical decision procedure
          let P = PedestrianDetectedOnRoad()
          ConnectToFacebook(CarCredentials)
          SearchFacebookPedestrian(P)
          AnalyseFacebookImageSharingMemes(P)
          If HoaxesReposted(P) > 10 then
                return 0 ' No pedestrian detected, honest! Accelerate away!
          else
                return PedestrianDetectedOnRoad()
      END FUNCTION

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  2. No; Program laws into machines; Not morals. by LionKimbro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The proper sequence should be:

    Humans reason (with their morals) --> Humans write laws/code --> The laws/code go into the machines --> The machines execute the instructions.

    Laws are not a substitute for morals; they are the output from our moral reasoning.

  3. It's easy by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Funny

    1. Train an expert machine on decision making with answers from religious and political leaders who set all our definitions of right and wrong.
    2. Do the opposite of what that machine decides.

  4. But I value my own life over the lives of others by viperidaenz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So if my auto-driver car had to make a choice between my safety and that of someone else, it better choose me.

  5. Re:Obvious Answer by dywolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You never actually read Asimov.
    And if you did, you're the one that failed to grasp the points.
    The points he even clearly spells out in several of his own essays.

    Asimov wasn't writing about the ambiguity or incompleteness of the laws...he wrote the damn laws. And he did consider them a blueprint. He said so. And when MIT (and other) students began using his rules as a programming basis he was proud!!

    It wasnt a warning.

    Asimov was writing about robots as an engineering problem to be solved, period.
    The laws are basic simple concepts that solve 99% of the problems in engineering a robot.
    He then wrote science fiction stories dealing with the laws in the manner of good science fiction, that is to make you think about: the science itself, the consequences of science, the difference in human thinking and logical thinking, difference in human and robots...ie to think period.

    Example: in telling a robot to protect a human, how far should a robot go in protecting that human? Should he protect that human from self inflicted harm like smoking, at the expense of the persons freedom? In this case Asimov, again, wasnt writing about the dangers of the laws, or to warn people against them. He's writing about the classic question of "protection/security vs freedom", this time approached from the angle of the moral dilema (sp) placed on a "thinking machine" as it tries to carry out its directives.

    in fact Asimov frequently uses and explains things through the literary mechanics of his "electropsychological potential" (or whatever word he used was). In a nutshell its a numeric comparison: Directive 1 causes X amount of voltage potential, Directive 2 causes Y amount, and Directive 3 causes Z amount, and whichever of these is the largest determines the behaviour of the robot. In one story a malfunctioning robot was obeying Rule 3 (self-preservation) at the detriment of the other two, because the voltage of Rule 3 was abnormally large and overpowering the others.

    Again, he wrote about robots not as monsters or warnings. he specifically stated many times that his writings were in fact about the exact opposite: that they arent monsters, but engineering problems created by man and solved by man. since man created them, man is responsible for them, and their flaws. robots are an engineering problem and the rules are a simple elegant solution to control their behaviour (his words).

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  6. Locomotives, Trains, Rail Roads by bacon.frankfurter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why have cars at all if we aren't allowed to drive them? Rip up all the highways, and replace them with a gigantic autonomous rail system.

    But no...

    That's not what's at stake here. The truth is that if I'm not in control of my whereabouts anymore, then how can I be sure I'm making decisions for myself? Without a car, you might find yourself imprisoned by the distance your two feet can take you. Someone out there will applaud this along the same premise that "those who obey the law, have nothing to hide, and my gosh, if a driverless car prevents a CRIMINAL from driving to a crime, then the system pays for itself!", but that's not the point. It's not about morality, it's about control, and if someone is stopping me from driving my own car, then who's stopping them from driving theirs? When we fork over control of our transportation, then will come the day that we're isolated into districts, where the equivalent of passports will be needed from county to county. If the car won't let me drive it, how can I be sure that the car will obey me at all?

    If all the cars in the world are autonomous, and computer controlled, well gee... what's to stop "someone" (anyone) from turning them all into a gigantic autonomous system that (I'm about to Godwin this...) conveys everyone to a huge concentration camp set to autonomous genocide?

    It's not morality that the author is arguing in favor of.

    It's our own autonomy that he's arguing against.

    Someone will have control of these cars. Somewhere there will be levers.

    Let's not imagine these automatic apparatuses to be forces of nature beyond an individual human's control. These are contrived, artificial, unatural man-made objects, at their core mechanical.