Slashdot Mirror


Ask Slashdot: What Web Platform For a Small Municipality?

First time accepted submitter r3dR0v3r writes "I have the opportunity to help improve / replace the website of my small U.S. town (~6000 people). The town leaders are open to most any suggestions, and are open to the idea of having the website facilitate a more open government — by being a place at which town documents, meeting agendas, meeting minutes, legal forms, ordinances, etc. can be found in an organized way and downloaded. And of course the site should provide general info about the town, it's services, recreation opportunities, etc.. Now, we have no budget, so we'll be looking at free/open software. I've considered options such as Drupal, but I'm doing this as volunteer work so I don't want to start from scratch and spend overly much time. Thus, I'm looking for advice about any existing platforms made specifically for municipalities as a great way to get a jump start. I'm guessing there are other slashdotters that have helped their communities in this way. Your suggestions please?"

161 comments

  1. One word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LAMP... well acronym for the grammar Nazis

    1. Re:One word by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

      LAMP... well acronym for the grammar Nazis

      That would be lexicology Nazis, you semantics-insensitive clod!

      Sincerely yours,

      lexicology Nazi.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:One word by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even better word is...VM. There are several Linux distros with VM support built in and VMWare has several LAMP builds already set up and ready to go.

      Why a VM?because its pretty obvious that if this guy is going to ask Slashdot he has little to no experience at the task at hand (because if he did he'd already have preferences) so he is gonna make mistakes and with snapshots he can just roll back the image if he makes a boo boo without wasting all his previous efforts. So the smart move would be a minimal distro with VM support and one of the prebuilt LAMP setups from some place like VMWare, its the choice with the fewest risks.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:One word by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2

      Yes -- VM appliances rock, and they're scalable, at least to the point where you can copy the VM across to a larger machine whenever you want, and boot it up there. They're also easy to recover. Plenty of them on Sourceforge. I used to use Dekki (now Mindtouch I think) for a portable wiki, as a consultant. Great for gathering data and disseminating it to my peers. Proved the appliance theme for me.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  2. tough one by mozkill · · Score: 0

    Thats a tough question since whatever you choose, you would want integration with online social communities and a nice comment system. Because of that fact, the choices narrow...

    --

    -- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
    1. Re:tough one by BrownLeopard · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, joomla and wordpress both have multiple free extensions that handle Facebook comments, Disqus comments, twitter feeds, etc.

    2. Re:tough one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Thats a tough question since whatever you choose, you would want ...

      Security. Whatever package you choose, make sure it is secure and that you stay on top of security updates. Small municipalities are a great target for vandals/activists/hackers who want to strike against a target that has some semblance of government.

      Wordpress, Joomla, etc are very susceptible to hacks. Do your homework and make sure you're using the most secure version or add-ons that you can get.

      BTW, congrats on giving back to your community. I hope it turns out to be a great project and that you get paid work as a result of local businesses seeing what you've done.

    3. Re:tough one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wordpress.

  3. Several options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress are all viable options... just go with whatever you are comfortable with...

  4. CMS by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Use a CMS like Joomla, Drupal (or any other similar)

    Or, if you're a glutton for punishment, Sharepoint. (yes, that is a joke)

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    1. Re:CMS by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Compared to Joomla pretty much anything else is a good choice.

    2. Re:CMS by La+Camiseta · · Score: 5, Informative

      Take a look at Drupal and the different distributions that are available for download (pre-defined packages of modules and features known to work together). It looks like they have a distribution right up your alley in OpenPublic (openpublicapp.com).

    3. Re:CMS by gorzek · · Score: 1

      Drupal's a good choice, if you've got the hardware to run it. But it is probably the most flexible system out there for this sort of thing, short of writing your own from scratch.

    4. Re:CMS by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      TFS says he doesn't want to spend a lot of time and doesn't want to start from a blank slate. So just saying "drupal" doesn't really answer the question.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    5. Re:CMS by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Well, it kind of does. He wouldn't be starting from scratch; he'd be starting from a deployed, functional CMS ready to receive data.

      Alternatively, what about MediaWiki? It's tailored for lots of people editing content, and the page history functions seem completely appropriate for a government website (so that citizens can track document changes over time).

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    6. Re:CMS by acoustix · · Score: 2

      Take a look at Drupal and the different distributions that are available for download (pre-defined packages of modules and features known to work together). It looks like they have a distribution right up your alley in OpenPublic (openpublicapp.com).

      That is awesome. I was in a similar situation about 3 years ago where I was trying to help my community with their web presence. We tried Drupal, and it worked for the most part. But OpenPublic would have saved us a lot of time and grief.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    7. Re:CMS by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Informative

      WordPress? ;)

      Joomla is fine for smallish sites. 6000 people in a community is smallish. Drupal is powerful sure enough, but I've found that power also includes (unwanted) complexity. I didn't recommend Wordpress, because I don't really count that as a CMS, though it has CMSy features.

      I've used Joomla, WebGUI, Drupal, Wordpress, and even a few Forum (old school) systems as a "website" framework. Each has advantages.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:CMS by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 3, Funny

      I recomend ShairPoint on Windows 8, and you don't even need the server edition, Win 8 Home should have enough power to tackle a 6000 strong office environmant. You will be able to share all your Microsoft documents And the great thing is the IT support you get from Microsoft - tops bar none.

      In a nutshell - SharePoint ROCKS!

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    9. Re:CMS by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Uh, ouch. Sharepoint has its place, and I think this isn't it. Especially since they are mandating open source for budget reasons.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    10. Re:CMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In a nutshell - SharePoint ROCKS!

      This sounds like the perfect solution for what I need. Will it run on my Windows 8 RT tablet? It has those screen cover things, so it's secured and ready to go.

    11. Re:CMS by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2

      This sounds like the perfect solution for what I need. Will it run on my Windows 8 RT tablet? It has those screen cover things, so it's secured and ready to go.

      Now that's paradigm changing out of the box thinking!

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    12. Re:CMS by Fireflymantis · · Score: 1

      I would highly recommend Tiki ( http://tiki.org/ ) as an option as it will probably have every feature you need ready to go. Wiki for main content, forums, article publishing, blogs, forums, chat, calender, data trackers, tons of starter themes, video conferencing, file/image galleries.. the works. The v10 beta is very stable and although it is a bit of a pain to configure initially since the number of options are overwhelming, once it is set up it really rocks. Getting good performance can be a bit tricky, however if you set up the APC module, enable the minify js/css features, and get gzip and proper caching set up on the web server it can be very very fast even on a budget VPS.

    13. Re:CMS by steveg · · Score: 1

      Drupal's not really "ready to receive data." It's "ready to design a site." *Then* you can give it data.

      It's like buying a Long-EZ and telling someone it's ready to fly away. But there's some building to do first.

      --
      Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
    14. Re:CMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Joomla ain't bad. But quite a lot of the add-ons (I'm looking at you VirtueMart), are complete shit.

    15. Re:CMS by hazah · · Score: 1

      Depending on what you install as the distribution you're both right and wrong. It's true that the core distribution isn't very data ready, but it already comes with premade blogs and forums, for instance (personally the core implementation had never satisfied me, but it's there). If you grab an actual distribution fit for a purpose, you get much more out of the box.

    16. Re:CMS by steveg · · Score: 1

      Oh, yeah, I buy that. But until recently I was unaware of any of the "distributions" of Drupal -- I had tried bare Drupal and decided I didn't have time to mess with it. So as far as I'm concerned, *Drupal* is not data ready. OpenPublic, or Trekk, or whatever, based on Drupal, probably *is*, but it's not quite the same thing.

      I may give one of the distributions a try here pretty soon.

      --
      Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
    17. Re:CMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoooooooooooooooooooooooosh!

  5. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Drupal with CiviCRM. Perfect for what you've described.

    1. Re:Easy by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      That does look interesting, as does LocalWiki referenced below. Some combination, CiviCRM for formal administration and the wiki for more free-form content sounds ideal to me.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    2. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Depends what you want to do with CiviCrm, as soon as you try to do anything other than the most basic of basic tasks, you start hitting bugs and issues. Trying to get help on the forum basically being asked to sponser the fix for $100 an hour

    3. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drupal with CiviCRM is a powerful combination, but it's complex and needs constant attention. I'm a happy Drupal/CiviCRM user myself, but I wouldn't recommend it for a project that should be cheap and simple.

  6. whatever you choose by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Make sure to have a clear support contract, paid or otherwise. This could become an unpaid time sink unless you set clear time and other boundiaries NOW. You may not notice if you do,but you will pay if you don't.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:whatever you choose by Roger+Wilcox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seriously. More important that "what platform?" is "what scope?" and "whose responsibility?" I am a professional web developer, and IMO going in without firm answers to these questions is just nuts.

      You stated there is no budget... what *exactly* will the site do? It will need a webmaster, and if the scope of the project is not clearly limited, you may find yourself in waaaay over your head. A decent website will take hundreds of hours to set up even with the most ideal CMS package. That's without accounting for ongoing maintenance, the expectations of (tech-ignorant) municipal leaders, and the thousand nebulous variables you will end up juggling if you don't clearly define your objectives.

      Unless you are talking about a few static pages, this sounds like a bad idea to me. If the municipality wants a website, before you volunteer you need to make sure they:
      a) understand that a website is a long-term commitment
      b) specify exactly what the website needs to do (and understand that changing this is a Big Deal with real consequences for the cost of the site)
      c) allocate resources appropriately

    2. Re:whatever you choose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A decent website will take hundreds of hours to set up even with the most ideal CMS package

      This.

      All the people posting about how simple X, Y, or Z packages are to set up...they are talking about getting a "Hello World" back from their server, not building a website.

      Forget the technology aspects. Imagine you are starting a newspaper from scratch. The brand and model of printing press you use is the least of your concerns right now.

  7. Re:Ruby on Rails by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Do not listen to this advice. RoR is totally fail. It sucks at performance, scaling and pretty much every other metric that is important.

  8. How a hacker does not know this? by lsolano · · Score: 0

    I mean, 'r3dR0v3r' should know about web platforms.

    1. Re:How a hacker does not know this? by mitchaki · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, I forgot only h4xx0rz know |337...

      --
      It seems that everyone who says "I ignore trolls." really means "I ignore you if you disagree with me."
  9. Dropbox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ugly, and you could do better.
    But why not simply have a publicly viewable share and dump the documents there.

    Stuff life Dropbox is easy for non-technical people to use.

    Later you could put together a fancier solution. Or just use the current website to point to "active" directories.

    IMO "no budget" is dumb

  10. Nginx and Mod Security (Varnish optional) by philbreed · · Score: 0

    Now that mod_security has added support for Nginx I can see no better option. Fast, flexible and secure. Maybe varnish if you really need it out front, but Nginx can do 90% of that anyway

    1. Re:Nginx and Mod Security (Varnish optional) by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 2

      How in the hell does that address any part of the submitters question?

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
  11. Drupal is a good start by javawocky · · Score: 1

    Starting of with Drupal is probably good. It should more than handle the load on without too much trouble if you need more horsepower. You can pretty easily setup up and configure users to add content and its not exceptionally difficult to code extensions or find a developer to hack something together. I think the fact that power users can make it do 80% of the work means you will save time on all but the most complex stuff.

  12. Go with Drupal by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

    Drupal is an excellent choice for whipping up a sophisticated website. It has modules for doing all sorts of things from event calendars to forums and whatnot. Also, unlike Wordpress, Drupal does a pretty good job keeping up security. You can put together the basics of a functioning website in a matter of hours.

    There are also lots of free themes available, including ones that provide easily extendable frameworks so you can come up with your own theme if you're so inclined.

    All that being said, the bulk of the effort will NOT be making the website. The bulk will be in entering the content, and server management/security. For content, your best bet will be to use a wysiwyg editor module that is capable of handling copy-and-pasted word documents. I suggest installing the wysiwyg module, along with CKEditor or TinyMCE. Security is something you'd have to do reading up on, as there are no magic bullets.

    1. Re:Go with Drupal by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Also, unlike Wordpress, Drupal does a pretty good job keeping up security.

      I have been thinking of setting up a server, and vacillating between Wordpress and Drupal.

      I was leaning towards Wordpress as that it looked a bit more turnkey.

      What are the security implications (weaknesses?) of Wordpress vs Drupal?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Go with Drupal by TheLink · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also, unlike Wordpress, Drupal does a pretty good job keeping up security.

      Evidence/proof please? I don't really see them as being significantly better:
      http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=joomla
      http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=drupal
      http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=wordpress
      http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=plone
      http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=django
      OK they only had 5 sql injection CVEs in 2012 while Wordpress had 6. But "pretty good job" doesn't seem to spring to mind when I look at the Drupal CVEs.

      --
    3. Re:Go with Drupal by styrotech · · Score: 1

      All those SQL Injection CVEs for both projects all seemed to me like they were in 3rd party addon modules/plugins.

      Without any kind of looking into just how many 3rd party addons are available for each project and whether or not the vulnerable ones are ever likely to actually be installed on the average site, it's jumping to conclusions to use that to compare the two projects to each other.

      eg for Drupal I looked at how many sites report using those Drupal modules, and got:
      3423, 30*, 163, unknown*, 1957 for the 5 modules that had CVEs. The two marked (*) were marked with large warnings as insecure and abandoned with . And this is out of 19000+ modules hosted at drupal.org.

      For comparison the most popular contributed Drupal addon module reported 547306 sites currently using it. It would be safe to say that less than 1% of Drupal sites have ever used any of those modules that had SQL Injection vulnerabilities this year.

      Someone else wanting the same data for Wordpress (I ran out of enthusiasm), could look it up here:
      http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/

      Wordpress has even more addons available than Drupal. I don't think 5 or 6 SQL Injection vulnerabilities in a year out of roughly 20000 3rd party addons is enough evidence to claim either project is not doing a "pretty good job". You'd need to look at other factors.

    4. Re:Go with Drupal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mmm, Drupal fares better than Wordpress on security, but if you look at other alternatives, you can get CMS with an even better security track record. F.e. eZPublish (and it comes with paid support too)

  13. Start small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start with something small. Get an old box, slap a Linux distro and LAMP on it. Toss Wordpress on there and start uploading content. Don't take this on as some big project with a lot of things integrated into it. Begin with the bare basics and add features on a as-needed basis. Don't over think the early stages or you'll get bogged down before you even start.

    1. Re:Start small by hazah · · Score: 1

      If you do not wish to dig a hole for yourself, under no circumstances follow the parent's advice. Plan your site first, know what it will be doing, know the beginning and the end, and divide that into phases (feature a,b,c in phase 1, d,e,f in phase 2, etc ...). It's called scope, and you need to keep it at bay if you wish to have a life outside of working constantly on that site. Absolutely think this through IN THE EARLY STAGES. You should not even touch a computer untill you know what you'll be doing, and what the end result is supposed to look like. Whiteboards are your friends, and paper makes a good aquaintence. Yes, as you develop you will have to adjust. This is minimised by, yet again, upfront planning. This will also help you resolve what platform to choose. If wordpress makes your life easier by supplying with just the right plugins, then go for it. Drupal has a few neat tools to cover a good 90% of use cases -- in my experience (Drupal favours the tool kit approach, so you build things out as you wish, rather than relying on packaged behaviour -- see views and panels for reference).

  14. Code for America by Rinisari · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is where I pitch www.codeforamerica.org and see what it may offer!

    1. Re:Code for America by DERoss · · Score: 1

      The home page for Code for America has 9 CSS errors. The HTML could not be tested because it appears to have used HTML 5, which is still under development, unstable, and not yet approved for general use. I say "appears" because the DOCTYPE declaration fails to indicate an HTML or XHTML version.

      If that home page is a sample of what you get with Code for America, you will be revising and revising again as the specification for HTML 5 changes, until that specification is finally approved. Furthermore, the CSS errors would make me leery since they indicate other errors might enter your result. This could make your Web site look strange in some browsers.

    2. Re:Code for America by scared+masked+man · · Score: 0

      <doctype html$lt; is the correct doctype for WHATWG HTML and HTML 5 (but not for the XML serialisation).

    3. Re:Code for America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha, oh boy, I groan as a professional front-end web developer. Every now and then I'm reminded that many slashdotters are still living in 2002 and designing websites with tables based on HTMl 4.01 Transitional. Let's leave the web development to the contemporary pros, shall we?

    4. Re:Code for America by themightychris · · Score: 1

      Here's another sample of what you get with Code for America: https://github.com/codeforamerica/cfawp2012/pull/2

  15. why reinvent the wheel? by alen · · Score: 1

    google docs might take care of some of this

    no budget, no money for onsite servers means cloud

    even then for such a small environment there is no reason to buy your own hardware and code everything from scratch when someone has probably done all the work for you in a hosted solution

    1. Re:why reinvent the wheel? by Desler · · Score: 1

      You seem to have misread what they said:

      but I'm doing this as volunteer work so I don't want to start from scratch

      Emphasis added.

  16. Joomla on top of my previous sugeesting by philbreed · · Score: 1

    If the base beneath your CMS is not fast and secure your CMS will be compormised. Also check out Magnolia it is a powerful and interesting CMS that is java servlet deployed.

  17. Drupal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because 300 connections to the database to display a picture of your cat can't be wrong.

    1. Re:Drupal by hazah · · Score: 1

      You may have missed the checkbox you need to set before going into production. nice try.

  18. Software Suggestion, Pointers by llin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For the type of things you're looking for, I'd recommend LocalWiki. While so far it's been used mostly by communities vs municipalities, it includes robust permissions, is under active development, and is built w/ some nice geo-extensions for where that's applicable. It's very easy to get up and running and you could run a micro EC2 instance to test out for (practically) free.

    I'd also suggest that you try to connect w/ others that are doing similar things. There's a large community of civic hackers. For those working directly w/ municipal govt, check out the Code for America Brigade, a community that's all about that and can provide help/support for exactly this sort of thing. You may want to check out their deployable app list, and maybe also check out CfA's github repository which has a lot of projects that may be useful, and their Civic Commons project which gathers the sw/infrastructure that cities are using.

    1. Re:Software Suggestion, Pointers by j-beda · · Score: 1

      For the type of things you're looking for, I'd recommend LocalWiki. While so far it's been used mostly by communities vs municipalities, it includes robust permissions, is under active development, and is built w/ some nice geo-extensions for where that's applicable. It's very easy to get up and running and you could run a micro EC2 instance to test out for (practically) free.

      LocalWiki is the outgrowth of the amazingly successful http://daviswiki.org/ which spawned http://wikispot.org/ Encouraging and supporting this type of local non-commercial wiki is great for any community.

    2. Re:Software Suggestion, Pointers by llin · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they're currently Knight Foundation funded (a Knight News Challenge winner) and a big part of CfA Brigade's current Race for Reuse project encouraging community deployments - there's are bunch of communities adopting LocalWiki, which is awesome. Also, I met Philip, the lead dev recently and he's very sharp.

      That being said, for a volunteer project for a small town without any support or resources, a Google Site w/ Google Docs links that an AC suggested probably is the best way to go - it's not sexy, but I bet that realistically, it'd be the lowest maintenance and longest lasting/most effective way to get the basic info up there (and kept up to date).

  19. Why make it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...harder than it has to be.

    Google Sites + Drive

    The primary purpose of the site is to share information. This would also make it easier to have the town update/work with the site themselves.

    1. Re:Why make it... by llin · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is probably much better than my suggestion. +1

    2. Re:Why make it... by sjw02001 · · Score: 1

      Accessibility. Completely mandatory for government agencies of any kind. Is Google Sites + Drive compliant for people who need to use various pieces of adaptive software (screen readers and such)? Can you guarantee that it will remain so for the expected useful life of the project? I'm betting it would require an SLA, which requires $$$. With something set up in house that you can control, this compatibility can remain at the forefront instead of whatever objective Google has this week that requires breaking stuff but looks shiny.

  20. 1. Create a simple static html page by Spy+Handler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    with info about the town that does not change (name, location info, some pictures, etc)

    2. Create the town's Facebook page, populate it with dynamic data, and hand over control of the account to the town manager (or whoever)

    3. Embed Facebook data into your static html page

    You can go Drupal or Joomla but do you really want to be responsible for security and upkeep? Joomla in particular gets hacked a LOT. Drupal is a nightmare to train newbs how to use.

    1. Re:1. Create a simple static html page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did a non-profit's web site from scratch in 2002. When they wanted a different site some years later, I did it in Drupal. It need regular maintenance to stay secure and a web-savy person to maintain the content. You probably won't have that so I'd look at something that has a fixed format (a wiki has been suggested). It will allow non-web people to update and maintain pages without requiring to much upkeep.

      If you're setting up a web site, be sure that some entity in the city government owns the site's domain. A local police department had their site setup by a volunteer who paid for everything. At some point the relationship soured and the volunteer took down the site, thereby paralyzing the police department's web presence. They threatened arrest. He threatened to sue. It was ugly but you'd think that a city in the heart of Silicon Valley would know better.

      Nope.

    2. Re:1. Create a simple static html page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything you said is the problem with "web developers" these days.

      Facebook for a municipality? Really?!

  21. If you have no budget ... by tgd · · Score: 2

    If you have no budget, keep it all on paper.

    Seriously, anything you pick, at all, will need ongoing long-term maintenance, security monitoring, etc ... the only thing worse than no system is an abandoned system.

    If the town thinks its valuable, they should fund it appropriately (no matter what technology you use). Or get the scouts to run a bake sale or something.

  22. Use a Drupal distribution like OpenPublic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Based on your stated requirements (no budget, not wanting to start from scratch etc) I'd suggest using one of the many pre-configured Drupal distributions like OpenPublic (http://drupal.org/project/openpublic) which is built specifically for the needs of government.There are many other distributions available at http://drupal.org/project/distributions. Using one of these will save you a lot of time.

  23. wordpress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    much easier to put in place, plugins are simpler to put in place

  24. Sharepoint by Darktan · · Score: 3, Funny

    The increased staffing required to develop and maintain it will drive your little town's population up to 20,000 in short order. Best of all, most of those new jobs will be for highly paid SharePoint consultants, so the town should get a lot more property tax revenues!

  25. Oh, can't wait by sunking2 · · Score: 2

    To see the mess this turns into in a few years. Relying on a volunteer using a platform and all products that they choose, none of with will have any sort of actual support model behind them is a recipe for disaster as soon as you become disenfranchised with it all. Seriously, take a look at the number of projects out there that start off and then die on the vine as soon as interest is lost, which in something like this will be very quickly once you get something running and interest wanes.

  26. OpenPublic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OpenPublic - http://drupal.org/project/openpublic

    I've never used it but it's a Drupal distribution specific to your use case.

  27. Quit now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is not pessimism; it's realism: stop while you're ahead, or at least hammer out an agreement in writing.

    Doing any sort of web development for a large community, and gods forbid a government agency, is going to eat up a lot of your time -- time you've already said you don't have. Worse, though, is that it will never end... your involvement will become increasingly needed and even demanded as services fail or need to be expanded, or your site is hacked. How much liability are you assuming in designing what amounts to the PR page for a group of professional, elected lawyers?

    You absolutely need to make sure that there are clearly-defined boundaries at every level of your involvement, preferably in the form of a contract, even if the work is completely voluntary.

  28. Local hosting is not a good idea by lucm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not always cost-effective to host your own platform - you need hardware, power and cooling, a reliable internet connection with good upload speed, maintenance, backup, etc. and you get to live with a pager, There are plenty of cheap Linux hosts out there where all the possible software is available. As an example there is Bluehost where the $5/month hosting plan comes with a SimpleScripts subscription which allows you to deploy just about any application in a jiffy (including all the CMS, blogging and social media stuff you can think of, including Drupal). Of course for that price you can't expect stellar performance, there will be hundreds of other websites on the same machine.

    If you want something more robust and you are open to other things than FOSS than have a look at Microsoft Azure. It's more expensive than cheap Linux hosting but for $25-$50/month you can have a very robust cloud setup (load balancing, backup, etc) and no additional license cost. And the nice thing on Azure is that you can deploy an configure a new CMS (like Joomla or DotNetNuke) using a click wizard, it's even more user-friendly than SimpleScripts, you get to choose the various options, not just the admin password. Also with Azure you get a 3 months free trial to see if you like it. And if you somehow can't sleep with the idea of a .Net webapp you can deploy PHP stuff - you can even host a Linux VM and run whatever you want on it but that would kinda defeat the purpose of using cloud services.

    Whatever you do make sure you don't become the "owner" of a local setup. People will start to have unrealistic expectations and will be mad at you when "your" server is down because of a power or internet failure. If you really can't afford a few dollars a month go see an elected official and ask for guidance, I'm sure they can find a federal program to get you pennies.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
    1. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't recommend they get a budget webhost!

      Most cities, even the small ones, will have some form of technology infrastructure in place. If you need to get a new server in, then they should have the budget to maintain it. Any companies that start to provide services to a city will need to get picked through an RFP process, which generally cuts out the budget web hosting services.

    2. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      It's not always cost-effective to host your own platform - you need hardware, power and cooling, a reliable internet connection with good upload speed, maintenance, backup, etc. and you get to live with a pager, There are plenty of cheap Linux hosts out there where all the possible software is available. As an example there is Bluehost where the $5/month hosting plan comes with a SimpleScripts subscription which allows you to deploy just about any application in a jiffy (including all the CMS, blogging and social media stuff you can think of, including Drupal).

      Don't go with Bluehost, I myself tested them a few months ago and I just moved a client off them last month. I don't think I've ever seen a system load below 20 on their machines (at least they do provide SSH access) and I've seen it get scarily close to 100. The performance is exactly what you would expect on such a loaded server.

      I'm now doing reseller hosting for some clients. I can get you a very decent hosting setup, and customize it to your needs, and install a CMS for you, for $10 monthly. It would be comparable to what you'd pay about double that anywhere else, and honestly, resource-wise it will seem like you've got just about the whole server to yourself. Email me, my Gmail username is the same as my Slashdot username.

      Here is my current system load, unedited right off the server:
      $ uptime
        20:58:34 up 9 days, 10:57, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.15, 0.11

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    3. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by lucm · · Score: 1

      Don't recommend they get a budget webhost!

      Most cities, even the small ones, will have some form of technology infrastructure in place. If you need to get a new server in, then they should have the budget to maintain it. Any companies that start to provide services to a city will need to get picked through an RFP process, which generally cuts out the budget web hosting services.

      This is not correct. In any level of government there is a threshold under which there is no need for a costly RFP process, and since the OP is basically saying they don't have money, there is no point in going that route. Anyways no decent provider will waste time responding to a personnalized RFP for a webhosting kind of budget, it would have to be included in a bucket of IT services and that's a whole other story.

      I made it clear in my comment that I would advise a full-scale cloud provider (such as Azure) but given the choice between a local frankenserver connected to internet with a cheap DSL modem and volunteer-like support or a cheap webhost it's a no-brainer.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    4. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by lucm · · Score: 1

      It's not always cost-effective to host your own platform - you need hardware, power and cooling, a reliable internet connection with good upload speed, maintenance, backup, etc. and you get to live with a pager, There are plenty of cheap Linux hosts out there where all the possible software is available. As an example there is Bluehost where the $5/month hosting plan comes with a SimpleScripts subscription which allows you to deploy just about any application in a jiffy (including all the CMS, blogging and social media stuff you can think of, including Drupal).

      Don't go with Bluehost, I myself tested them a few months ago and I just moved a client off them last month. I don't think I've ever seen a system load below 20 on their machines (at least they do provide SSH access) and I've seen it get scarily close to 100. The performance is exactly what you would expect on such a loaded server.

      I'm now doing reseller hosting for some clients. I can get you a very decent hosting setup, and customize it to your needs, and install a CMS for you, for $10 monthly. It would be comparable to what you'd pay about double that anywhere else, and honestly, resource-wise it will seem like you've got just about the whole server to yourself. Email me, my Gmail username is the same as my Slashdot username.

      Here is my current system load, unedited right off the server:
      $ uptime

        20:58:34 up 9 days, 10:57, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.15, 0.11

      Ok so basically the guy would have to pick :
      1) an established provider that is hosting millions of domains (says them) in their 50,000 square ft data center in Utah for $5
      2) some dude who is doing fly-by-night reselling for an unknown host and is advertising his 9-day uptime server for free on Slashdot and of course offers better performance (says him) for $10

      I don't have a dog in this fight but if I had I'd go with the Mormons and use the $5 I saved to keep a mirror site on another cheap provider.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    5. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that there might not even be an option for that. In my state, all political subdivisions have to have their websites on state servers under state law. My advice would be to contact the local attorney for the city to see if there are any requirements, then the county one and then the state AG just to make sure. At a minimum, it would need to meet the bidding law, the state FOIA and open meetings laws, god knows how many privacy laws, properly follow city copyright issues dealing with ownership and, depending on the department, department specific rules.

    6. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I've used Bluehost for over 10 years and never had a problem with them. In addition, they're the only host at that price I've found that allows video/audio streaming.

    7. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      Ok so basically the guy would have to pick :
      1) an established provider that is hosting millions of domains (says them) in their 50,000 square ft data center in Utah for $5
      2) some dude who is doing fly-by-night reselling for an unknown host and is advertising his 9-day uptime server for free on Slashdot and of course offers better performance (says him) for $10

      I don't have a dog in this fight but if I had I'd go with the Mormons and use the $5 I saved to keep a mirror site on another cheap provider.

      I'm sure that he has more choices than that! But if he is on a budget I can happily help him, in fact I'll happily give any slashdotter an account to try for a month or longer to test. Just email me (Gmail username same as slashdot username) and I'll set up an account. That goes for the OP or anyone savvy enough to be reading /..

      By the way, google me. I'm known in the open source community for over a decade, and I've been on /. since about 1998 or 1999 (under a different username, though). I might be unknown in the web host reselling, as I usually only do that for clients, but I'm hardly new to Linux or the LAMP stack. In any case, this server is in a nice big data center (UK, not Utah) with the connectivity and redundant connections that you would expect. But he'll be one of a few sites on the server, not one of hundreds. And the sites on this server are mostly maintained by professional developers, not some guy installing an outdated Joomla or vulnerable PHP in 24 Hours code. Admittedly, my goal is to get more of the little guys on the server and thus there will be more vulnerable code on the server, but it is nowhere near the mess that is running on Bluehost servers (yet).

      I'm really not trying to knock Bluehost, I have used them before and of all the large, established providers they were my own personal choice as well. For what they do they do well. But for some reason in the the web hosting industry poor service and overloaded, insecure servers is deemed acceptable unless the client is paying top dollar. I believe that any paying customer deserves the best service that I can provide and a fair enough share of the system resources to have a traffic spike and not bring down his site.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    8. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      I didn't mean to disparage Bluehost, as I've mentioned when I was using cheap hosting they were the best choice around. However, I don't recommend 'cheap hosting' for a website of any value, because in the web hosting industry, unless one is paying $25 or over monthly he is to expect poor service and an overloaded server. That is why I offered my services: because I can give him real service on a well-provisioned server in a real datacenter for less.

      In fact, I'll happily open a free test account for anyone savvy enough to be on /.. Use it for a month or however long it takes you to decide if what I'm offering is viable and fair, and only then start paying monthly. My Gmail username is the same as my slashdot username, and you should google my name as well as I have been active in the open source community for about a decade.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    9. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by lucm · · Score: 1

      But he'll be one of a few sites on the server, not one of hundreds. And the sites on this server are mostly maintained by professional developers, not some guy installing an outdated Joomla or vulnerable PHP in 24 Hours code. Admittedly, my goal is to get more of the little guys on the server and thus there will be more vulnerable code on the server, but it is nowhere near the mess that is running on Bluehost servers (yet).

      So what you describe is a situation where the value of your service will go down as your sales go up... At least you deserve some credit for being honest!

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    10. Re:Local hosting is not a good idea by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      So what you describe is a situation where the value of your service will go down as your sales go up... At least you deserve some credit for being honest!

      Yes, that is the nature of spreading out a finite resource among users. And why shouldn't I be honest? It is exactly the expectation that the people that we deal with _won't_ be honest that I rebel against.

      To be clear, should the need arise and the server become crowded, I will happily upgrade it or add another server. That is in everyone's interest.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  29. Webgui from Plain Black Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about Webgui?

  30. CiviCRM and whatever CMS you feel best with by gQuigs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I would use CiviCRM [1] and WordPress if there were no other constraints. I am of course assuming that your town wants to be able to do email outreach, has events, and likely could use case management to handle citizen requests. If not, then there is little point in using CiviCRM or anything besides a plain CMS.

    I personally would prefer seeing town meeting summaries as blog posts then PDFs (which is what most towns seem to do currently).

    Although if you really have NO budget, then I guess WordPress.com hosted or Google Sites.

    [1] http://civicrm.org/

  31. OpenPublic (Drupal-based) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll bet you can get pretty far with http://openpublicapp.com right out of the box, then add CiviCRM down the road if it comes to that.

    I admittedly work for Phase2 Technology, the company that sponsors the OpenPublic project, but it's actually a great starting point for the type of site you're talking about:)

    1. Re:OpenPublic (Drupal-based) by DERoss · · Score: 1

      The Web page at http://openpublicapp.com/ has 85 HTML errors and 92 CSS errors. How many errors will OpenPublic leave in the town's Web site? How will different browsers treat those errors? Will any of those errors adversely impact audio browsers used by the blind and thus cause the town to violate the Americans with Disabilities Act?

  32. You have no idea what you're getting yourself into by AnotherShep · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just a few questions to see if you've even bothered to think about this beyond "Websites are cool, open is awesome!"...

    These questions all come from firsthand experience.

    1) Who will maintain the data on the site?

    a) Does the city have the budget for them to do this?

    b) Will there be resistance to the amount of work they have to do / training they have to take?

    c) Will you train them?

    2) What do the solicitors think? Will they even let you post what you want on the site?

    3) Do the departments want the information available? Are they going to push back if they don't?

    4) You have no budget. Who pays for or does the hosting? Registration? Admin stuff? Maintenance?

    5) Do you actually have buy-in from the people you need it from, or are they just humouring you?

    6) Are you being used? This is the sort of thing that municipalities (Yes, even your small one. Look at its tax roll sometime) can easily justify dumping $20k+ into

    7) They have done a feasibility study, right?

    8) How familiar are you with accessibility standards? Are there some you legally must meet to even put the site up?

    9) Who is responsible for the site itself?

    10) Are you prepared to have this project drag on for over a year?

    11) Finally, the hardest one - are you certain you know the scope of the project?

    Good luck, but don't get yourself in trouble...

  33. OpenPublic - another vote by sstern · · Score: 3, Informative

    Out of the box, it has probably more than what you want. http://openpublicapp.com/

    --
    --Steve
  34. Re:Ruby on Rails by tattood · · Score: 4, Informative

    Also, RoR is a framework for creating a website from scratch, which is exactly what the poster did not want to do. There may be CMS packages written in RoR, but Ruby by itself will take a lot more work than he wants.

    --
    WTB [sig], PST!!!
  35. Banshee on Hiawatha by Aethedor · · Score: 0

    Use the Banshee PHP framework on the Hiawatha webserver. Both have a strong focus on security and offer good speed. Use stuff like Drupal, Joomla and Concrete5 if you want your website to be extremely slow. Use Wordpress if you want guarantee to be hacked.

    --
    It doesn't have to be like this. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking.
  36. Arvada, Co has a nice one by gatfirls · · Score: 1

    They went with a hosted solution though. Their harvest festival pages were especially quick.

  37. Liferay or Alfresco! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Either https://www.liferay.com/ or http://www.alfresco.com/ fit your use case perfectly. Alfresco might fit a little better but Liferay might be a little easier IMHO. Sharepoint might also work but I've never seen an installation that isn't ugly as sin.

  38. WordPress Hosted by yakatz · · Score: 5, Informative

    WordPress recently started a service specifically for municipalities: http://en.blog.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/wordpress-for-cities/ Even with their paid upgrades, you would probably be saving money on development and you are paying for hosting or (bandwidth/power) anyway.

  39. Drupal, but... by DreadfulGrape · · Score: 2

    ... outsource the hosting.

    --
    sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
  40. Re:You have no idea what you're getting yourself i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    2) What do the solicitors think?

    Solicitation is a crime in the US.

  41. Don't build it from scratch, use a wiki, or... by realmolo · · Score: 1

    You aren't going to make any money doing this, and it will be a time sink.

    Get a Wordpress blog setup from one of the zillion different providers that offer that. Problem solved.

  42. Keep it simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't say what's currently in place, and if the existing infrastructure is worth building on. But to avoid too many headaches in the future, I suggest looking at hosted solutions with simple front-ends such as SquareSpace or similar. You want to spend minimal effort setting this thing, and be able to train someone not skilled in web-programming to update the site and add documents. Setting up some complex beast made up of different frameworks glued together with custom code is a recipe for either you being miserable, or the town leaders being disappointed with what you gave them.

  43. GovOffice.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    My small town of ~5,000 uses http://www.govoffice.com/ and it does everything you speak of.

  44. Re:Start with security in mind. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get an Enterprise server from IBM running AIX on POWER. You can start small by using some bug-ridden distro, security compromised X86 system, the roach motel of CMS's wordpress, or start with the mind set of protecting your small towns government documents.

  45. What are the business requirements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does your public library need a web front end to their catalog?
    Does your parks and rec department want to post schedules and rosters and allow online registration for rec sports?
    Do you need to allow property tax payments online?

  46. Drupal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Drupal has more backers and a larger community. The issues won't fall on your shoulders, however there is a learning curve. Once you're over the hump you will be good to go. I feel it is best option for building a small site initially and then you can add on over time.

  47. Re:You have no idea what you're getting yourself i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These are absolutely terrific questions. If the city you're doing this for is big enough to have a city hall, police department, and an annual budget, then you'll need to coordinate all this. To much for you? Bow out NOW.

    If this is for some place like Lake Woebegone, MN, which is a much smaller community, you may find it easier to deal with so few people. Otherwise, you're in for a really fun time (for widely varying values of fun).

  48. Re:Packt Publishing by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

    for a minute i thought the my clean pc guy was back

    --
    ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
  49. Re:Packt Publishing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whiskey.
    Tango.
    Foxtrot.

  50. Web Service? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Perhaps try some rented build-a-site web service so that you don't have to install and babysit a physical box. You may be willing to do such, but if you move or get sick, they may not have a replacement technician.

  51. Re:You have no idea what you're getting yourself i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mostly good points above (I'm sure won't be a feasibility study. More likely there will just be a PIP "Put it in Production" test.),
    Here's one more from firsthand experience.

    What happens when there's a regime change among the town leaders?

    In the best case, you must be prepared to replace new leader(s) faces and names everywhere the old faces and names were.

    There will be a lot worst cases.

    ) The new town leader is a fanboi, and wants the site to follow the true faith.

    ) The new leader won't care, until the day (s)he does care.

    ) The new leader will not put in an ounce of effort to learn the system, but will blame you and system for all shortcomings.

    ) The new leader, who has not been on the site, say their friends think it's "hard to use". Ask them what's they mean, they have no clue.

    ) The new leader thinks they are experts, but have less clue than a "Ask Slashdotter".

    and worst of all, the new leaders think they are experts, have the experience to actually be experts, and know how to delegate (to you).

  52. This was me...five years ago by ChiefGeneralManager · · Score: 5, Informative
    Five years ago my local area ("Parish" in the UK) asked for my help. I realise the question is about a 'platform' but really do have to side with the process people here. I developed a site on Textpattern, and editable at the back-end. Three main things happened:
    1. 1. The design was critiqued by committee...move this picture here; have links this colour; can we have this scrolling etc. Indeed I was asked by separate members of the committee to do contradictory things!
    2. 2. The content became my responsibility: I was handed paper photos; old documents and asked to get them online. The few things I was emailed were in Word documents and when I tidied them up I was challenged about why my fonts had been lost
    3. 3. Whenever someone saw something on another website, they wanted it on ours: picture scrollers, Flash animations, user accounts, personalisation, weather forecasts you name it!

    Since, in a gig like this, you can never enforce your own conditions (like saying you won't amend the design on every whim) you have to let the tools enforce this for you.

    If I was ever to try this again I would opt for an easily user-editable, hosted solution. Wordpress will be ideal: http://en.blog.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/wordpress-for-cities/ You can cast your role as advising them on how to run it: information architecture; doing the limited number of graphics and showing people how to use the editor. Your role is not to continually re-design (just customise the template), nor to populate the whole thing. You'll also not have to put up with a 2am phone call from the Mayor to say your site is flagged as having malware and is littered with anti-city comments. Wordpress will deal with that for you.

    I have used Drupal (and CiviCRM) for other sites and they are phenomenal tools...I just think for a 6,000 grouping they are overkill. And remember if the city wants personalisation, user accounts, billing, consultations etc. online then they really should be paying for someone to develop it for them (perhaps using those tools).

    Hosted Wordpress will also help you see whether they are ready to run their own online affairs.

    1. Re:This was me...five years ago by hazah · · Score: 1

      Might not be over kill, we have some clients that constatnly harrass us this way. We block this based on budget, but more often than not we simply talk them out of stupidity. We are professionals, so we insist on being treated professionally by our clients. Granted, it's a bit different to have a structured team to handle this, but I doubt this should be different for a one man op either. Bottom line is that you cannot allow yourself to be walked over like a doormat. Unfortunately, unless this is strickly enforced, he will be.

    2. Re:This was me...five years ago by hazah · · Score: 1

      Posted too fast. It may not be overkill if you need the flexibility of some of drupals more popular modules such as views. It also leaves the door open to make something useful out of the basic site at the beggining.

  53. Elgg by beck24 · · Score: 1

    http://elgg.org/ A simple setup social network that can handle everything you've listed almost right out of the box. A couple of community plugins for additional features, slap a theme on there to make it look pretty and you're on your way. If/when you have a budget or some time to invest you can customize it pretty much any way you can think of.

  54. Wlak away, just walk away. by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No budget, and relying on you for (free) voluntary support? My only recommendation is to walk away as fast as you can.

    1. Re:Wlak away, just walk away. by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      Seconded.
      Run, don't walk, no good deed goes unpunished.
      Without decent funding it _will_ fail and you'll be the culprit, it was all your idea etc.

    2. Re:Wlak away, just walk away. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thirded

    3. Re:Wlak away, just walk away. by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Fourthed, if such a word exists.

    4. Re:Wlak away, just walk away. by connor4312 · · Score: 2

      Fifthed. Don't work without some sort of contract or agreement, and especially don't volunteer without doing so. Trust me, ten years from now, you'll still be getting calls to fix their latest website problem. I speak from experience.

    5. Re:Wlak away, just walk away. by rHBa · · Score: 1

      I completely disagree, walking is far to slow a way to retreat.

  55. Re:Packt Publishing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as she doesn't get any subluxations...

  56. No Budget? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No budget means don't do it. You will regret it and so will the person who is eventually paid to fix your half assed job.

    I am often paid to fix things people do for free, and it those free projects are usually of such little quality that they may as well not even have been attempted in the first place.

  57. Don't forget the ADA by johnkoer · · Score: 1

    Remember the ADA when coming up with your solution. If you use CAPTCHAs, make sure you provide one that has both audio and video. If you are using image links, make sure you support screen readers with the alt tag.

    If people are posting documents make sure they are in an open format. Many municipalities use MS Office and will just post docx or xlsx files without thinking about it. I

  58. You must be a PHP "Professional" by Safety+Cap · · Score: 2

    Wow, Argument from incredulity on teh interwebs.

    I've written rails apps that supported a very large newspaper's site, which got well over 15 MILLION pageviews per month. Never once did my apps stumble or crash.

    Like anything else, you have to know what you're doing, boychik. Now go read pp 14-16 of the Pragmatic Programmer and learn a little.

    --
    Yeah, right.
    1. Re:You must be a PHP "Professional" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      15 million page views per month is chicken shit. Thats what, maybe a few hundred thousand unique visitors a month?

      Come back when youve got 15 million unique visitors a day and tell us all how great Ruby is.

    2. Re:You must be a PHP "Professional" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wow, Argument from incredulity [rationalwiki.org] on teh interwebs.

      No, more like just pointing out well-known issues with Ruby on Rails that fanbois like yourself keep trying to claim don't exist. It's always someone else's fault but Rails despite all other platforms not having the issues.

      I've written rails apps that supported a very large newspaper's site, which got well over 15 MILLION pageviews per month.

      No wonder the newspapers are dying 15 million page views a month? That's pretty pathetic for monthly page views. Also, considering you are serving mostly static content with a few ads, that's hardly any real load. That could easily be run off of 2 on-demand micro instances on EC2. Big whoop.

      Like anything else, you have to know what you're doing, boychik.

      Yeah, and "knowing what you're doing" means you don't use shitty tools like RoR. Though I know how much this offends you and the rest of the Rails hipsters. You gonna furiously type up another rebuttal on your MacBook Air while sipping your Starbucks latte?

  59. Use Mezzanine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mezzanine is a CMS for Django.

    It is out of the box simple to use and full featured. Connections to social media and comment services etc.
    Another benefit is that it is a Django application; so it is possible to use django apps together with it.

    I am building a web site for my collective housing myself using Mezzanine, django-wiki, django-schedule,
    django-issues, django-auth-ldap, django-ldapdb.

    Although, having been a webmaster for a small company myself I can only concur with those that give advice
    about being mindful about time, effort, and cost. Even this small company took a lot of time to discuss with,
    implement new features, and support. I can only imagine what a application potentially used by 6000 users
    would bring to the table.

  60. Re:You have no idea what you're getting yourself i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Troll? I was hoping for Funny. It was a US question, with a UK response. Lighten up, mods!

  61. A wiki? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Some people have mentioned Joomla or Drupal - forget it.

    Have a look at Atlassian Confluence, they have hosted options also. Atlassian University for training is both modestly priced and effective.

    Trees of pages for agendas / minutes / can handle attachments with ease / export sections to PDF. Easy to customise layout and look/feel. Integrates with popular directory servers.

    $0.02

  62. Re:You have no idea what you're getting yourself i by AnotherShep · · Score: 1

    I'm from Canada, you insensitive clod!

  63. Re:Ruby on Rails by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think that what the poster really wants, doesn't exist, but should. And building it in Rails is a great idea. Open-source project? I'll bet a lot of people would be willing to pitch in. The project's already on Slashdot... Timothy, let's here about your specs - Slashdot, what could we build?

  64. Re:Ruby on Rails by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

    The question asker isn't timothy...

  65. Three Steps by DERoss · · Score: 1

    First, get written specifications from a town official who has the authority to approve the results. The specifications should indicate the sources of content and how the town expects the Web site to be hosted. The specifications should be testable; that is, it should be possible to determine whether or not the result indeed implements what was wanted. You definitely do not want to put in any effort that will then be rejected. If you get a negative response, you want to point to the specification as justification for what you created.

    Second, read what experts have said about proper Web design. The most important thing is to adhere to W3C specifications; see http://www.w3.org/. That way, any problems by end-users in viewing the result can be attributed to the users' browsers and not to your creation. Also peruse Jacob Nielsen's Web site at http://www.useit.com/, especially his http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9605.html and http://www.useit.com/homepageusability/guidelines.html. While the Viewable with Any Browser Campaign at http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/index.html is somewhat dated, much of it is still relevant. Finally, there are my own "Professional" Web Developers at http://www.rossde.com/internet/Webdevelopers.html (where I dissect the errors committed by professional Web developers) and My Web Page Design Criteria at http://www.rossde.com/internet/web_design.html (where I describe how I design my own Web pages). In my "Professional" Web Developers, pay special attention to Accessibility to make sure you do not violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. My two Web pages that I cite here contain links to external Web sites with more information that may prove quite valuable.

    Third, test your results. Use the W3C validators. Use http://validator.w3.org/ to make sure you have no HTML/XHTML errors. Use http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ to make sure you have not CSS errors.

    1. Re:Three Steps by rHBa · · Score: 1

      Nice blinking text. Nice use of html4/loose.dtd (the only doctype your page could possibly validate as)

  66. Danger danger danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At the moment they are very nice and friendly. At the moment they also hope they can get something out of it for free.

    Now, this site WILL break. It WILL need updating and maintenance. They WILL call you.

    Are you going to say no? Those people who considered a nice person may likely decide that you have simply wasted their time in giving them an unusable mess. None of them can fix it, and they can't keep using it, so by definition it has to be defined as a terrible, unusuable mess and waste of time. If you turn down perpetual free support requests IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT YOU GET MADE OUT TO BE A BAD GUY.

  67. No budget. No staff, No hope. by westlake · · Score: 2

    "I have the opportunity to help improve / replace the website of my small U.S. town (~6000 people).

    The website for our small home town library is maintained by a four-county cooperative. Its appearance and resources are far better than we could have hope to achieve on our own.

    It makes sense to work with your neighbors. To budget and staff a project realistically.

  68. Wordpress is what you need by DocJohn · · Score: 2

    Download a copy of Wordpress to an outsourced web server hosting account (many secure options available for ~$100/year). It takes 3 minutes to setup.

    Wordpress's backend interface is the easiest to use and understand for folks who just need to share information and documents with others. There isn't the level of complexity (out of the box, but it's available if needed) that other CMSs have (like Drupal). Drupal is not recommended if you're not already familiar with Drupal.

    Then pick one of the attractive themes from the thousands available, load in a few helpful plugins, and give accounts to folks who may be responsible for different areas of content.

    Wordpress can easily grow if your needs grow. But out-of-the-box, it's so easy to use and manage, it's the no-brainer choice.

    --
    Psych Central
    http://psychcentral.com/

  69. WordPress for Cities by LordThyGod · · Score: 1

    http://en.wordpress.com/cities/. Its as easy to use as anything out there. There are more ways to extend it (without writing code) than anything else out there.

  70. web platform for small municipality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found an organization, "digital towpath", to help small govenments meet such needs. Here's a link to a document about design and secure implementation from their site:
    http://digitaltowpath.org/content/Generic/View/54:field=documents;/content/Documents/File/112.pdf

  71. Re:Packt Publishing by hazah · · Score: 1

    The submissive are always in control. It's the nature of the beast. At the end, she got extactly what she wanted, didn't she? That said, no reason you can't enjoy it now, for it looks like you are comfortable in your new role. Good luck.

  72. Research These by prestidigital · · Score: 1

    Open Public: http://openpublicapp.com/ (Open source Drupal like whitehouse.gov) Achieve City http://www.achievecity.com/ (SaaS version of Open Public tailored for muni) City of DeLeon http://www.cityofdeleon.org/ (WordPress theme developed by Luke Fretwell of GovFresh) +100 to all the folks who said to be sure you have a long term service plan

    1. Re:Research These by prestidigital · · Score: 1

      p.s. I work for Code for America

  73. Drupal ... by Combuchan · · Score: 2

    Recently, I spent 3 months as a maintainer of about a dozen production Drupal websites.

    That job was, by far, the worst job I've ever had in 11 years as a PHP programmer.

    Drupal is a horrible, terribly programmed piece of shit that makes life extraordinarily difficult for everything from install to administration to development to deployment. It is BEYOND bloated, dogged slow, kludgy, broken, insecure, half-baked, lacking in good community support, and generally awful through and through. It is an ugly bitch to code in on multiple levels--massive byzantine array structures to do anything, slow variable functions, the object orientation it has is pointless, obnoxious database schema and proprietary SQL (yes, really), the Javascript Drupal object...

    I could go into further detail...I came up with 39 reasons as part of my regular venting in that job why I will NEVER touch it again or so much as own up to having used it in the past.

    Trust me, do NOT deal with that crap. Even worse than using it would be to throw that white elephant on a third party (the municipality) that has no concept of how to deal with it, and would very likely have to pay out the ass for the rare PHP programmer that specializes in Drupal to deal with it when you've moved on.

    --
    "[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
  74. Simple. by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

    I always get frustrated when I have to dig deep and manually read over scanned non-OCR'd PDFs.

    Honestly, all I want is for all the documents and laws to be available. I would think that SVN with a web component would be great to be able to see the current laws, including the ability to 'go back in time', and it would work for posting minutes and agendas as well.

    I'm not overly concerned with -presentation-, having the data available in a digital form alone is a major step forward, and you can build out from there.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  75. Re:Packt Publishing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the insight and well wish!

  76. Tuttle, Oklahoma? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    It's not Tuttle, Oklahoma is it?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  77. most any? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Were you sitting on a fence chewing a cornstalk while you were writing that?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  78. Re:Packt Publishing by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I give the parent post 8 out of 10.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  79. The real question is.. by BVis · · Score: 1

    Why are you doing this for free?

    --
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
  80. Open Government? Liquid Feedback by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 1

    The town leaders are open to most any suggestions, and are open to the idea of having the website facilitate a more open government [..]

    If the town leaders like to go "more open" as in "more direct democracy", have a look at Liquid Feedback.

    As a reference you might refer them to the German district Freisland. (The decision to implement LF has been made meanwhile)

    1. Re:Open Government? Liquid Feedback by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 1

      Damnit. It's "Friesland" of course, not "Freisland" ...

  81. No PHP options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If security is an issue, and depending on our hosting budget, you may want ot consider:

    Plone http://plone.org/
    Alfresco http://www.alfresco.com/
    DotCMS http://dotcms.com
    Jahia http://www.jahia.com

  82. Drupal is already being used in Municipalies by smarkham01 · · Score: 1

    Visit here:

    http://openpublicapp.com/

    one of the available Drupal sites might inspire you AND give you a contact in a municipality to bounce questions off of.

  83. Web Experience Toolkit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should look into the Web Experience Toolkit: https://github.com/wet-boew/wet-boew/.

    The Web Experience Toolkit is an open source framework for developping Web sites that was created by the Canadian government, and is now developped by a community that spans various levels of government, the private sector and the open source community. It integrates with various CMSs, including Drupal (https://github.com/wet-boew/wet-boew-drupal) and WordPress (https://github.com/wet-boew/wet-boew-wordpress). This gives you the flexibility of using whatever platform suits your needs to host your site. It also allows you to create themes to adapt the layout and visual look and feel to your needs and branding and uses responsive Web design to make sites mobile-friendly.

    You can see the various components of the Web Experience Toolkit in action on the Working Examples page: http://wet-boew.github.com/wet-boew/demos/index-eng.html. You can also see the responsive views in action using the responsive emulator: http://wet-boew.github.com/wet-boew/test/responsive-emulator.html.

    For examples of Web sites currently using the Web Experience Toolkit, see:
    Industry Canada: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/icgc.nsf/eng/home
    Service Canada: http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/home.shtml
    Get Cyber Safe: http://www.getcybersafe.gc.ca/index-eng.aspx
    City of Ottawa: https://ottawa.ca/en
    Open Source Alliance of Canada: http://www.osacan.org/

  84. Wordpress by oamasood · · Score: 1

    You're just looking to (essentially) display data right? Wordpress is the way to go. Unless your application needs to be able to control the city's traffic and water pump systems, you really wouldn't need a web framework.

  85. Drupal can be hard work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've used a lot of CMSs and none of them made me want to break stuff as much as Drupal did.

    My advice would be wordpress because the community is very supportive plus to a noob friendly admin area.

    Try to ditch as much functionality as you can to make your task simple and use plugins out of the box - trying to mod them to add functionality will eat up your life!