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Facebook Says EU 'Right To Be Forgotten' Would Harm Privacy

Posted by timothy on from the want-to-subscribe-to-your-newsletter dept.

judgecorp writes "The European Commission has proposed a "right to be forgotten" online, which would allow users to remove personal data they had shared. The idea has had a lot of criticism, and now Facebook claims it would actually harm privacy. Facebook says the proposal would require social media sites to perform extra tracking to remove data which has been copied to other sites — but privacy advocates say Facebook has misunderstood what the proposal is all about."

27 of 277 comments (clear)

  1. Misunderstood? by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    privacy advocates say Facebook has misunderstood what the proposal is all about."

    Misunderstood, my ass. Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest.

    --
    Free Martian Whores!
    1. Re:Misunderstood? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Misunderstood, my ass. Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest.

      Yeah, I'd have to say this is a willful 'misunderstanding'.

      Facebook's commodity is your data. That's how they make money. They don't want to be told that they would be required to delete your data upon request.

      Any time you see Facebook saying "Privacy laws would harm privacy", the real thing they're saying is "but that would cut into profits".

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Misunderstood? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "'Facebook misunderstood" is "Facebook obfuscated".

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    3. Re:Misunderstood? by Artraze · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, no, you misunderstand. Remember that adage "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"? Well, all Facebook has is privacy intrusion so of course the only way to enhance privacy is to intrude on it. Makes perfect sense when you think about it.

    4. Re:Misunderstood? by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Isn't that the exact opposite of Hanlon's Razor?

      Better said, and copied right from my old .signature archive:

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
        depends on his not understanding it"
                                        -- U. Sinclair

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    5. Re:Misunderstood? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sadly, I think you hit the nail right on the head.

      From FB's perspective, this would harm your privacy, because FB will have to find even more creative and treacherous ways to invade user privacy to make up for the fact that users could, at any time, choose to have said data removed. I could easily imagine them creating multiple shell corporations that really "store" your data, and then when you ask to have your data removed they simply say "sorry, we don't store your data, one or more of our many affiliate corporations store and manage user data .. you'll have to submit your requests to them..."

    6. Re:Misunderstood? by macbeth66 · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, it would not.

      Facebook would be responsible for what is posted on servers. Only. If someone copied the data to MySpace, that is a problem for MySpace, not Facebook.

      I think you would quite well working for Facebook.

    7. Re:Misunderstood? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They don't make money from violating mine. Then again, I'm not on facebook because I don't want them to violate my privacy. Damndest thing.

      Other people can post pictures of you and "tag" you in them, regardless of whether or not you're actually a member of Facebook.

      The only way to know for certain that Facebook isn't violating your privacy would be to have access to every single media item on their servers, and manually go through them all to make sure no one else has posted your private information there.

      Or, you know, someone could pass a law...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    8. Re:Misunderstood? by Bengie · · Score: 3, Informative

      FB isn't supposed to allow linking to removed data. If someone copies data from FB to MySpace, then FB gets a request to remove said data, FB must also filter any links that could be referencing the copied versions on MySpace's site.

      EU wants Google to do the same. If someone requests certain data removed, Google must also remove all references to any/all copies any user has made anywhere on the internet, otherwise get fined.

    9. Re:Misunderstood? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Thank you for your request to delete your personal data

      Because Facebook LLC-Subcorp 3b is a wholly owned but separate subsidiary of Facebook LLC-Subcorp 2a1, we do not have your facebook credentials such as your username or password (that would violate your privacy).

      We do however, store and back up your personal information, which you authorized Facebook LLC-Subcorp 2b2 to transmit to us on your behalf.

      Because you have granted Facebook a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty free license to reproduce, reuse, market and otherwise utilize your personal content in the known universe in perpetuity, we will not actually delete your data. We will however, stop re-sharing it with Facebook LLC-Subcorp #1b2, a Malaysian-Ireland-Turkey LLC.

      To verify you own the identify you are requesting to purge yourself from our systems, please supply us with the following:

      1) Your full name
      2) Your place of birth
      3) Your date of birth
      4) Your mother's maiden name
      5) Your current address
      6) Your phone number
      7) Your email addresses
      8) Your login credentials for google
      9) A scanned, notarized copy of your driver's license

      When we have validated your identity, we will be happy to remove your personal information from our servers.

      For our protection, your removal request may be archived for up to seven years. Your personal information may also remain on backup tapes, magnetic media, aggregated dimensional analysis units, and in any other system we have already sold, licensed, subcontracted, or authorized to use on our behalf.

      By submitting a removal request, you authorize us to forward your request to subcontractors as we see fit, with whom we may have exclusive business relationships to resell your identity.

      Thank you, your privacy is very important to us."

    10. Re:Misunderstood? by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thing is, if I have some data X and I delete it, somewhere there has to be a record that says "hognoxious deleted X", which contains X.

      Otherwise, you can't prove that anyone is illegally holding a copy of X.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re:Misunderstood? by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When someone asks "What do I care if someone posts a picture of me on facebook?", what they're really asking is "What do I care if someone posts a picture of me on facebook when what they can do is exactly the same as any other internet side out there?"

      Theoretically, you're 100% correct. If it's on an interweb, someone could find it.

      In practice, if it's not on fuckyou or tubeface, loan officers and HR drones won't be able to. And they're the ones who can make your life suck.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re:Misunderstood? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dear Facebook,

      Thank you for your response to our legal position.

      As you have not complied, your assets across the EU have been frozen, and any executive who sets foot in any EU nation is subject to arrest and criminal prosecution.

      Love and hugs,
      The guys who actually still make the laws over here

      I think when the EU starts fining them substantial amounts and/or issuing arrest warrants, Facebook will notice. Contrary to common belief on US-centric forums like Slashdot, the EU does actually have teeth when it comes to US tech firms taking liberties, and has been known to bite.

      In case anyone thinks this is just hyperbole, consider that the EU (both citizenry and government) is getting very fed up with the US (both corporations and government) thinking that it can dictate how everyone else's legal systems and business regulations should work. Anything that screws Facebook while strengthening the EU data protection/privacy position and generating income for the EU via fines is basically a political/economic win/win proposition for the people who are going to be driving the process. Pretty much the only potential downside is losing favour with the US government with consequences elsewhere, but right now the US government is pretty unpopular with everyone so that probably doesn't matter much.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  2. In other news... by sconeu · · Score: 5, Informative

    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:In other news... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      War is Peace
      Freedom is Slavery

      As we approach the 30th anniversary I propose we add these to the list:

      Sharing is Stealing
      Privacy is Terrorism

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  3. So by the same logic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The "right not to be punched in the face" would harm health?

  4. Facebook on Privacy by TheSpoom · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think I'll take Facebook's views on privacy with a grain of salt.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
  5. Problem solved by golden+age+villain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Facebook says the proposal would require social media sites to perform extra tracking to remove data which has been copied to other sites

    Maybe they can start by not copying user data to other sites.

  6. Privacy has nothing to do with it by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To grant one person the right to be forgotten is to deprive another of the right to remember. The sharing of information once legitimately published cannot become illegitimate just because the person involved doesn't want it to be known. The "right" to be forgotten is a form of censorship and has nothing at all to do with privacy.

    --
    "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
    1. Re:Privacy has nothing to do with it by Desler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But what if you never gave it to them?

    2. Re:Privacy has nothing to do with it by dywolf · · Score: 5, Informative

      We're not talking about criminal records or warcrimes here.
      We are talking about being tracked and datamined, for profit.

      This is not a form of censorship.

      Facebooks right to know everything about and and make money off it does not carry more weight than my right to be left alone and not be tracked and not be datamined.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    3. Re:Privacy has nothing to do with it by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is the only sensible position I've seen on this subject. If you're concerned about what Facebook will do with information concerning you (note: not "your" information), then don't give it to them.

      I respectfully disagree. The information is mine (posts are copyrighted, surely?) and there should be some degree of control over that information. By that logic --
      "if you are concerned with what Google may do with your emails, don't open a Gmail account".
      "If you are concerned with what a physician may do with your medical history, don't go to a doctor"
      "If you are concerned with what bank may do with your money, do not give bank any of your money"

      Also, I am concerned about what other users give to facebook about me. Sometimes simply creating the account is enough to give away a crapload of information. I never understood people who have the time to go through and mark things like "I know this person because I worked with them at X" on Facebook. They are literally working for Facebook with no benefit to them.

    4. Re:Privacy has nothing to do with it by hawkinspeter · · Score: 3, Informative

      When someone else posts a photo of you in a compromising scenario and tags you in it.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
  7. Think twice. by Westwood0720 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Think twice before you post ANYTHING online. Because once its there, its there forever. Use discretion.

  8. Upton Sinclair by fldsofglry · · Score: 4, Informative

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! -- Upton Sinclair http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Upton_Sinclair

  9. It could be true. by pclminion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, it isn't far-fetched to assume that lawmakers will do something idiotic that causes a bunch of consequences they didn't intend. While I can easily see Facebook trying to language-lawyer this shit to their advantage, I'd give it 50/50 chance the law actually does imply the goofy stuff Facebook says it does.

    I believe that laws should always be enforced in full and to the letter, along with all unintended consequences. This way, broken laws can be quickly identified and fixed (or repealed). It also would prevent prosecutors from selectively enforcing obscure provisions of the law to target specific individuals.

    When judges and juries start making exceptions for cases that are "obviously not what was meant" we just encourage more sloppy law-making.

  10. Not on FB, but someone else posted my info.... by realsilly · · Score: 4, Interesting

    .... and took it upon themselves to post information about me on-line. So as a non-FB user, I have every right to be forgotten when I never gave them (the user or Facebook) permission to put information about me out there. I didn't create an account. I tell everyone I know to not put information about me on Facebook or on any social network, but when someone else takes it upon themselves to post info about me, now FB claims that they own that data.

    This is where I have big issues with Privacy laws and companies who data mine and then sell that data.

    Don't I have every right to be forgotten, since I went out of my way to avoid being "remembered"?

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.