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Carmack: Next-Gen Console Games Will Still Aim For 30fps
An anonymous reader sends this excerpt from Develop:
"Games developed for the next-generation of consoles will still target a performance of 30 frames per second, claims id Software co-founder John Carmack. Taking to Twitter, the industry veteran said he could 'pretty much guarantee' developers would target the standard, rather than aiming for anything as high as 60 fps. id Software games, such as Rage, and the Call of Duty series both hit up to 60 fps, but many titles in the current generation fall short such as the likes of Battlefield 3, which runs at 30 fps on consoles. 'Unfortunately, I can pretty much guarantee that a lot of next gen games will still target 30 fps,' said Carmack."
Would you rather have double the detail at 30 FPS, or half the detail at 60 FPS? Considering most people can't perceive frame rates faster than 30, it makes a bit of sense to push more polygons instead.
Better known as 318230.
people who complain about higher framerates never seem to have a justification other than 'it's not what I'm used to'. What about the 48fps made it suck? Please avoid using 'audiophile-like' subjective/emotional terms.
Neither DirectX nor OpenGL support proper triple buffering to avoid tearing at variable frame rates. Because of that, if you want tear-free rendering, but cannot keep up at 60 fps all the time, you must render at 30 fps or 15 fps, but not, say 48 or 56 fps. You can render at any variable frame rate if you allow for tearing (which most games do and avoid the headache of v-sychs altogether).
A display (television or monitor) has a fixed refresh rate. Assuming vertical synchronization is turned on to avoid tearing, you're pretty much limited to a framerate which evenly divides into the true refresh rate of the display. If the refresh rate is 60 fps, possible targets include 60 frames per second (providing 16.7 ms of computation time per frame), 30 FPS (providing 33.3 ms of computation time per frame), 15 FPS (providing 66.7 ms of computation time per frame), and so on. Anything below 30 FPS is kind of a joke, so nobody reputable would consider allowing more than 33 ms computation per frame in a shipping game.
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Please avoid using 'audiophile-like' subjective/emotional terms.
Our expectations & emotional experience colors our subjective experience.
And it's a scientifically measurable effect.
That isn't to say objective measures are irrelevant, only that they are not all that is relevant.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Good lord, this entire article is based on one tweet - 107 characters. Surely we could have waited for Carmack to say something more detailed than this??
Well, there's a bandwagon of snobbery out there about this issue. Kinda like people who say vinyl or vhs is superior to digital audio and video, I suspect this whole 'butt is it art' routine is more about social exclusivity and differentiation (and unhealthy doses of insecurity) than it is about their actual experience. I could understand if someone got motion sickness from the higher rate and didn't like that, but otherwise I cannot understand why someone would want animations deliberately choppy.
With today's style all about fast cuts and jerkycam, I think the higher framerate would help the viewer track the action.. It helps in games and I suspect it would help me in such scenes, esp when they pile on the blur and urinal tournamint style colored lighting..
It's less blurry and doesn't give you headaches, why would ANYONE want watch a movie that's NOT blurry or -- if seen in 3D -- gives you headaches?
I do agree that it doesn't have the "cinematic" feel of standard movies, so it feels weird when you watch it -- different. But it's so clear, smooth and headache-free that it's worth losing that. In fact, I'd like to see a movie in 60 or 75fps someday.
It's a given that most will target 30fps since more shinies looks better in screenshots and youtube videos than 60fps does. And most consumers can't tell the difference until put a 60 and 30 fps version side by side and let them play.
The leaked/rumored PS4/XNext specs show them as equivalent or slightly weaker than current mid-high gaming PCs, and those can't do 60 fps locked on all the recent shiny games at 1920x1080 with all effects on (except those like CoD MP that specifically target it), so it's unlikely the consoles would. Cheap components is the driver, especially for PS4.
But there's no reason a fighting game or fps can't aim for 60fps on the new gen if it wants to. Use your shaders and effects wisely and no problem.
That's exactly the problem I had.
The "Jerkycam" works BECAUSE of the 24fps.
The only time I found the 48fps showing to be uncomfortable and weird was during very fast action, jerky motion sequences. It suddenly feels like high-fidelity jerkyness, which makes it lose its tendency to portray "oh noez, stuff is blurry and out of control, even the camera", and just feels like "why is the dude shaking the camera so much?"
I guess my interpretation of jerkycam was always "why the hell is he shaking the camera so much?" Its' annoying and distracting, especially when it's every other scene. If the sharpness of movement isn't sufficient it's because the movements aren't sharp enough. The lower framerate just hid that.
Stupid AC, movies are not games, in games you want the highest framerate possible because this (usually) means quicker response times from keyboard/mouse/gamepad, increasing the feeling of immersion in the game.
This is especially so with the Oculus Rift type headgear being developed, the less lag between your input and the computer's visual output the more immersed you feel, with movies you're simply an outside observer.
To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
My subjective reason for hating 48fps: the movie looks like a sitcom.
That's just conditioning -- you're used to seeing sitcoms in higher framerates than movies. If sitcoms were traditionally filmed in color and movies traditionally filmed in black and white, you'd be ranting about how much color sucks in movies.
It's just a way of doing action on the cheap. The special effects and stunts don't have to be as good because no-one can see them clearly. A bit of low budget CGI looks much better when blurred and our of focus and only on the screen for 1/24th of a second.
Transformers invented a variation where the CGI has so much detail and is frames so poorly on screen that you can't make out where the character's limbs are or what is actually going on anyway, so again it seems to be better than it actually is. If you step through the action sequences frame by frame there is a very clear disconnect between the CGI and real objects that get thrown around by poorly hidden explosives and hydraulics. Terrible camera work hides a multitude of lameness.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
using a controller, playing a lot of single player games
You can have a mouse and keyboard. You can have multiplayer. You can have no lag. But you can't have them all. Mouse and keyboard + multiplayer = online PC game with net lag. Mouse and keyboard + no lag = single-player PC game. Multiplayer + no net lag = same-screen multiplayer game with gamepads.
but how do you do progressive when the hardware is built for interlaced?
The vertical sync pulse is delayed by half a frame before odd fields according to this diagram. Delay it and the analog hardware will begin retrace a half scanline later, which produces an odd field. Don't delay it and the TV interprets it as an even field.
We're talking analogue TV sets here - they DON'T DO progressive. Period.
Then how does my analog TV set do progressive when my NES, Genesis, Super NES, original PlayStation, or Nintendo 64 is connected to it? Question mark?
"The vertical sync pulse is delayed by half a frame before odd fields" should be "half a scanline period".
The real question is why are you expecting quality from transforms?
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