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Open Source Foundations Coming of Age — What Next?

An article at The H makes the case that many open source foundations have successfully proven their worth and withstood the test of time as legitimate entities. This leads to the question: where do they go from here? The author suggests an umbrella foundation to provide consistent direction across many projects. Quoting; "As you might expect, the main aim of most foundations is to promote their own particular project and its associated programs. For the putative [Open Source Foundation Foundation], that would generalise into promoting open source foundations as a way of supporting open source activity. In practical terms, that might translate into establishing best practice, codifying what needs to be done in order to create an open source foundation in different jurisdictions with their differing legal requirements. That would make it far easier for smaller projects – such as Krita – to draw on that body of knowledge once they have decided to take this route. It might also encourage yet more projects to do the same, encouraged by the existence of support mechanisms that will help them to navigate safely the legal requirements, and to minimise costs by drawing on the experience of others. After all, this is precisely the way open source works, and what makes it so efficient: it tries to avoid re-inventing the wheel by sharing pre-existing solutions to problems or sub-problems."

46 of 65 comments (clear)

  1. "Centralization does not scale." by John+Hasler · · Score: 3, Informative

    Multiple "umbrella" organizations? Sure. One single central authority? Do Not Want.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:"Centralization does not scale." by jcoy42 · · Score: 2

      No kidding. I read that summary as "Hey, we've found these systems that are really working well and so we were thinking we'd like to change that".

      It's working JUST FINE- bugger off.

      --
      Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
    2. Re:"Centralization does not scale." by davester666 · · Score: 2

      It's just like most analysts of Apple.

      You are very successful up to now.
      But now that you are so successful, you must change and start doing things the way everybody else is, otherwise, you will go out of business.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:"Centralization does not scale." by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Not only that - if different organizations have different goals, like OSI and FSF do, bringing them under a common umbrella is self defeating.

    4. Re:"Centralization does not scale." by steviesteveo12 · · Score: 1

      The nice thing about standards is that there're so many of them.

    5. Re:"Centralization does not scale." by Seeteufel · · Score: 1

      The example is good for the following reasons: Some are US entities, some are European ones. Organisations like Apache Foundation are obsolete. No one wants to be governed by US entities because we don't understand them. KDE e.V., Document Foundation are so much better governed.

  2. Well duh... by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1

    These foundations should get into the online advertising business.

    Maybe then -finally- their market cap would increase... or something.

  3. Exchanging the Bazar for the Cathedral? by Lisias · · Score: 5, Interesting

    *NO*.

    Open source can be a "mess". But it's exactly this "mess" that makes the FOSS resilient.

    --
    Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    1. Re:Exchanging the Bazar for the Cathedral? by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      Ok. What if there was just one foundation, and then a second, secretive, foundation foundation whose purpose is to monitor the foundation's activities in Open Source? We could even build an open source AI that could secretly oversee the second foundation foundation and make executive decisions for human^H^H^H^HOpen Source.

      I think that could work. Oh, and we'd have to nuke the Earth, to encourage programmers to free their code and spread it far and wide across the Internet, for free (don't worry, the Internet was designed to be nuke resilient). A bit on the "messy" side, granted, but trust me, I've thought this through.

    2. Re:Exchanging the Bazar for the Cathedral? by Lisias · · Score: 1

      Industrial organizations do seem to work in general, so the supporting role, or meta-role of the OSFF suggested in the summary should not lessen the resiliency of the FOSS. Pooling resources does not always equal pooling power.

      I don't agree with you.

      I had worked for Siemens Mobile (acquired by BenQ at the time of my leave), Siemens VDO (acquired by Continental, then acquired by Schaefler Group, and then I leave). The recent Sun acquisition by Oracle came to my mind.

      The industrial organizations mindset is all about power concentration and promoting scarceness in order to promote revenue. It's about acquisition and/or annihilation of the competition.

      I'm serious. We can't afford this mindset on FOSS.

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    3. Re:Exchanging the Bazar for the Cathedral? by Lisias · · Score: 1

      Ok. What if there was just one foundation, and then a second, secretive, foundation foundation whose purpose is to monitor the foundation's activities in Open Source?

      A FOSS oriented Church? =P

      Come to Brazil, Churches don't pay taxes around here. This can be a highly lucrative enterprise! =D

      (Ahh, the blips of the bitcoins being donated by mobile phones on the mass....)

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    4. Re:Exchanging the Bazar for the Cathedral? by wzzzzrd · · Score: 1

      Industrial organizations do seem to work in general

      Ahem, no. Industrial organizations do not work, not even in general. Brands and trade marks do, but "industial organization" is almost an oxymoron.

      --
      On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
    5. Re:Exchanging the Bazar for the Cathedral? by bug1 · · Score: 1

      Dont be so superficial, its not about the structures, its about the people.

      Im sure we could all make a big mess in a cathedral if it was useful.

  4. next... Copyleft adoption !! by martiniturbide · · Score: 1

    I think that the copyleft adoption is next. Currently corporations like non-copyleft open source licenses like Apache, eclipse so they can create commercial derivative works. The next step is don't caring about commercial software anymore and focusing 100% in services, turning on the obligatory open source on derivate works. ... nah... don't have the time to think on details.

    1. Re:next... Copyleft adoption !! by YurB · · Score: 1

      Yeah I think the same. Things like Wikipedia and Creative Commons are helping to promote this model. I think people are 'by default' thinking the copyleft way, we just need to show them there's nothing wrong with their thinking, and show how it might work ethically:)

    2. Re:next... Copyleft adoption !! by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      I don't mind corporations preferring non-copyleft, especially since non-copyleft contributions can usually be used within both copyleft and non-copyleft projects. If corporations started to mass-adopt copyleft a lot of non-copyleft projects that used to rely on contributions from such companies would be left out in the cold.

  5. What we need is ONE Destop UI Standard by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

    We could call it the Free Desktop Standard, and all Open Source Desktops could implement it -- Yes, even you my little Haiku. What's that Haiku? You don't want to conform to some generic standard? It would limit your ability to differ from other desktops other than by look & feel? You don't want to implement X11 just to comply with the Standard?! Well, fine. You just won't be under the Umbrella of the Free Desktop Standard. You just won't benefit from the services we provide! What do you mean you greatest assets are user/developer hybrids not money and legal advice? Haven't you heard of the patent wars? Well, just remember this you rebel factions, when the Propriety Axis of Evil Patent-Cross-Licensors comes to call. Don't bother whining to the EFF! They're under OUR Open Source Umbrella! HA!

    On second thought, maybe the Umbrella Corporation should be fought tooth and nail. Maybe open source foundations should just act as a collection of independent tools that each do one thing and do it well regardless of loyalty to any platform, standard, or ideology (CopyFree vs CopyLeft), instead of become a single insane bureaucrazy... You know, because THAT'S the Open Source Way.

  6. Re:consistency by Zapotek · · Score: 1

    Well, yes and no. As a leader/owner of a F/OSS project myself a reviewed and tested legal framework, along with some operation guidelines, would be immensely helpful in "business" situations or any time monetary issues are at hand.
    That's probably what they meant with "to provide consistent direction across many projects", not some plan to force everyone to rank and file under their command.

    And since no-one is born with universal knowledge of every imaginable field then that sort of thing would benefit medium (or even largish) sized minds by saving them from a boatload of research and brain-melting legalese.

  7. Re:consistency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The exactly quote is more specific:

    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.

    However, this does not give a complete dismissal of the value of consistency, and if I wanted to dig up some pithy quote about the value of a regular structure, I'm sure I could do so.

    And you can bet if Open Source becomes a mish-mash of inconsistency, there will be people who decide to cut that Gordian Knot.

  8. Just for Fun by tuppe666 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Microsoft Mission Statement (http://www.microsoft.com/about/en/us/default.aspx) - "At Microsoft our mission and values are to help people and businesses realise their full potential." their values are more interesting "As a company, and as individuals, we value integrity, honesty, openness, personal excellence, constructive self-criticism, continual self-improvement, and mutual respect. We are committed to our customers and partners and have a passion for technology. We take on big challenges, and pride ourselves on seeing them through. We hold ourselves accountable to our customers, shareholders, partners, and employees by honoring our commitments, providing results, and striving for the highest quality."...they haven't looked at those for a while.

    Apples Mission Statement (http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=6) - "Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad." - Seriously Apple!! that is less of a mission statement and more of a list of products.

  9. flexibility by RedHackTea · · Score: 1

    The one great attribute (besides being free & open) about F/OSS is flexibility. Don't like this distro/program/script? Use this one. Like this distro/program/script but not feature X? Use a forked version with alternate feature Y, install alternate feature Z, or hack it up yourself. Don't like the license being BSD-like? Find one that uses the GPL, request for someone to write a new version (or for the author to change licenses), or again hack up your own.

    Creating one umbrella foundation sounds good on paper, but how to make it flexible? And how do you guarantee there won't be corruption? We (humans) have spent years on philosophy, politics, etc., and there is always a little corruption. The problem is that corruption trickles down. If there's a break in the main foundation of the umbrella, then you might as well throw it away. Do we really want to risk this? And is it even possible to get everyone to agree?

    It could work, and there are good intentions here, so perhaps I'm just being selfish? But for me personally, when I write open source code I don't want standards forced upon me. I want the freedom to write my code like I want, put my braces/brackets/whatever where I want to put them, name my program with f***ed up acronyms, and I don't want to be part of corporation-like practices when I "code for fun." I want individuality, and I want that from others too. I want unrestricted creativity and intelligence without being delayed and distracted by yet another "standard." And, I may be wrong, but I think that's some of the roots of the original F/OSS.

    It just depends on what this umbrella foundation is supposed to do. From reading the article, it sounds like it's just to pool money and create documents about legality in different countries? This doesn't really sound like a foundation to me; you could just make a small website for this and ask people to post best-practices documents and for donations. I think there needs to more details about what this "umbrella foundation" is actually for.

    One Foundation to rule them all, One Foundation to code them,
    One Foundation to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

    --
    The G
  10. Re:consistency by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    businesses have to have their lawyers go over such issues with a fine tooth comb anyway, they're not going to trust some "foundation"

  11. Re:consistency by noobermin · · Score: 1

    How about an interface instead of a abstract base class?

    If two or more organizations feel they can do better if they pool resources together, why not make an alliance or a small partnership or such? If there is no real need for a meta-bureaucracy to handle the existing bureaucracy, why make it?

  12. Re:consistency by noobermin · · Score: 1

    s/a abstract/an abstract/

    slashdot needs an edit button.

  13. Re:SImple really... by unixisc · · Score: 2

    This is pure hogwash. First of all, Ubuntu, or Mint, or the dozens of distros are not recognized by GNU as legit; instead, what is endorsed are distros like Trisquel, Dyne:bolic, gNewSense and some others that nobody outside the FSF has heard of. Secondly, while it's true that Linux distros have been made that boot automatically and so on, very often, this plug & play functionality is b'cos they have binary blobs - something that's hated by the FSF guys. OSI doesn't have an issue w/ them, but FSF does. That's why one is more likely to find holes in those Linux-libre distros than in the standard Linux distros. Heck, even Debian, recognizing that there are times that un-liberated software is needed, provides those separately from its liberated software for those who are not that uptight about this purity, and guess what? Debian too doesn't have the endorsement of the FSF.

    Open source is more accommodating of such deviations than Free Software, and that is why most businesses are more receptive to it.

  14. Displacing Microsoft in the Workplace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As someone who spent the last 20 odd years coding C# NET / C++ COM among other things, I've recently become disillusioned with the MS nosedive as a dev platform.
    I am exploring open source alternatives, learning Ubuntu, Apache, GNU tools, Google App Engine, Clojure, etc.
    Now that MS has abandoned the desktop (& stagnated NET) with its Win8 disaster, Its no longer "developers, developers, developers" - it is now a "devices & services" company. Their problem with this is that they have completely lost to Android on the device front, and on the cloud services front, people are mainly interested in VM hosting not PAAS - so they are just another 2nd rate host provider. The only thing going for them is their massive workplace install base, which is rapidly ossifying into legacy tech.

    So, what is stopping Linux penetrating the corporate market? Companies dont like paying MS license costs. here's my insider's take:
    1) people (both LOB dev poohbahs / fanboys & office workers) are dumb, lazy to learn new things, resistant to change
    2) people are unaware of the alternatives - joe shmoe does not know that you can use Google Drive for free instead of paying exorbitant license fees.
    3) there is no hand-holding guidance for IT win admin bob to migrate his platform away from windows / office, or marketing materials to help convince his manager that this is the path to take.
    4) retraining is expensive & disruptive.
    5) A lot of in-house info systems are built on an underlying MS infrastructure: SQL Server, ShitePoint etc - there is no cheap migration path here.

    So what is need is :
    1) market awareness - an intense & prolonged marketing campaign regarding replacing windows & office
    2) training material
    3) migration guidance
    4) migration tools

    I was there when IBM went from hero to zero in 1992 with OS/2, & saw Digital VAX die in the 90s. Paradigms shift & change can happen fast.

  15. Open sounrce vs free software by YurB · · Score: 1

    It would be great if Free Software Foundation and OpenSource Initiative worked together to minimize the differences and together support the critical projects like a free/open source Skype replacement.

    P.S. I personally would be very happy to see the term "Libre Software" to become the common denominator. Open source sounds cool and everyone knows it, but the name only says the source has to be open, that's only a part of what we all mean by it, and FSF is opposing it. Free software, on the other hand, is a little ambiguous in the meaning of the word 'free'. Also I don't like that FSF only says a system is free if it doesn't provide tools to install non-free software, and thus excludes Debian. User must be free to make the choise on his own (oh I mean her own:), while understanding the risks.

    1. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      "What we actually mean by 'Free' is this set of restrictions on freedom.."

      The only free source code and/or software is Public Domain.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      The public domain gives developers the freedom to restrict others' freedom.

      Its impossible for my use of the Public Domain to take away your freedom to also use the Public Domain.

      Licenses like the GPL guarantee the freedom can't be taken away.

      That thing that you are calling freedom, isn't. Freedom is not a contract with obligations.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    3. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      The public domain gives developers the freedom to restrict others' freedom. Licenses like the GPL guarantee the freedom can't be taken away.

      And it won't as long as you have your copy. GPL merely restricts the existence of non-free copies. Code can be copied, which means that just because someone uses a copy in a non-free way doesn't mean that your free copy is now somehow also non-free. It doesn't matter if it's GPL or permissive, freedom isn't just magically taken away.

    4. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by vurian · · Score: 1

      Where I live "public domain" does not exist. The concept has no legal meaning over here.

    5. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      For example: It is possible for your refusal to use the public domain to take away from my freedom to use the public domain.

      Examples come with things called examples. You clearly couldnt provide one.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    6. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by booch · · Score: 1

      Licenses like the GPL guarantee the freedom can't be taken away.

      That thing that you are calling freedom, isn't. Freedom is not a contract with obligations.

      So your claim then is that a society that allows the freedom to own slaves is more free than a society that disallows slavery?

      --
      Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
    7. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by booch · · Score: 1

      How about the term "Free Source"? It allows the FSF to continue having the word "free" as in freedom. And it allows the OSI to still focus on the source code. And realistically, the source code really is the only "free as in beer" portion. Additionally, it solves the problem that the OSI has, in that "open source" already has a meaning in the intelligence community, causing the term to not be trademarkable.

      --
      Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
    8. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Nice try reaching for the emotional card.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    9. Re:Open sounrce vs free software by Bengie · · Score: 1

      For example: It is possible for your refusal to use the public domain to take away from my freedom to use the public domain.

      It is impossible to take from someone something that which they never had.

      You've ventured into the RIAA's "lost sale" logic.

  16. Re:Make Open Source win-win by YurB · · Score: 2

    This shows me that RMS was right: open source is too lose term. 100 businesses making similar modifications to the source code of a single program on their own, fixing the same bugs, adding the same features is a waste of time. Also they may begin suing each other eventually. Libre Software is all about cooperation, and source availability is just a technical requirement for that.

  17. Would there be One Ring? by Voline · · Score: 1

    Cause that would be cool.

  18. They need "UI experts". by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

    They should all hire some hipster UI company to ruin the remaining desktop environments and UI-heavy software with some moronic tablet-wannabe interface. After all, Windows 8 is selling so well, GNOME3 is welcomed by the users, and Unity did not hurt the popularity of Ubuntu at all!

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    1. Re:They need "UI experts". by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      I think that once GNOME 3 and maybe also Unity (I haven't looked too much at it) has been more fine tuned that users will actually like them more than the older GNOME 2 desktop. It's however unfortunate that GNOME 2 has been discontinued since while GNOME 3 is probably the right desktop for most users it's not the right desktop for all users. Sure Mate exists but the whole thing could have been handled so much more smoothly.

    2. Re:They need "UI experts". by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      No, the whole models of both are fatally flawed. GNOME 3 breaks all window managers except its own shell -- that kills any customization that is not done within that shell, and their shell sucks. Both Unity and Gnome break easy window switching and screen layout control -- that clearly identifies them as touch-only design, no matter what their authors thought.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    3. Re:They need "UI experts". by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      Sure and that's why I said that they are not the desktop for everyone. I don't know much about Unity, but at least GNOME 3 will (when it's ready) be a good desktop for most users. I have seen a ton of people that previously would never touch Linux try GNOME 3 and say that this is the point where they could actually consider it as an alternative to Windows or OS X.

      Now the bad thing that the GNOME developers really dropped the ball on was that GNOME 3 is not a good fit for those of us that have used Linux for many years now. We want t keep using GNOME 2, or whatever else we are using. For example we have a lot of users still on fvwm. So it would have been so much better if GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 had continued to live side by side. The fact that we have to rename a lot of things in Mate just to avoid name collisions is just ridiculous.

  19. Re:Make Open Source win-win by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Fixing bugs is just one aspect of it, and usually something that the original vendor would want to do. But there are a lot of other things that individual customers may want, but which the vendor may not be interested in b'cos there ain't many other customers interested in it. For instance, let's say an ISV makes a program that helps a company manage its finances. One customer, which is located both domestically and offshore, would like some features that helps it transact business not only according to domestic, but also foreign tax laws. The vendor has limited employees and can't/doesn't want to explore the latter. In the model that I suggested, their customer can just go ahead w/ it, implement it in-house and use it, w/o worrying about support.

    As FreeBSD has shown, when a company is making modifications that others may be interested in and that the vendor may be willing to own and maintain, they are only too happy to send those modifications to be merged upstream. That's what Juniper has done in FBSD. But other than that, when Juniper wants to add modifications to FBSD that it can then use in its routers, they do it, and the FBSD foundation has nothing to say to them, and is only too happy to let them mind their own business. OSI too doesn't care.

    Cooperation is a fine idea, but forced cooperation is not cooperation. What's more, the basic question out there is whether software developers have the right to earn a living simply by selling software, and not having to worry about services and those aspects. RMS' answer to that question is practically no. Their current choices are to either go proprietary, thereby denying themselves the advantages of open source, or go open source, and be put at a disadvantage in that they can't restrict redistribution of their software. My above idea would pick a sweet spot that allows them to benefit from the advantages of open source, while not having to suffer the disadvantages. That way, people who simply want to make & sell software can do that being forced to allow their customers to become their competitors.

  20. Re:SImple really... by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Aha!!! Here is the problem! Why would a new API not be backward compatible? The only reason is to accommodate the FSF's insistence that all software be liberated. Not everybody is comfortable w/ liberating their software, but why should a customer who likes their software - or hardware - be punished b'cos of that? Binary blobs are again a win-win situation for both vendor and customers, since the latter gets to use the thing, and former gets to sell it. Why should the former be forced to publish their specs if there are either business or other reasons for not doing it? If a vendor and a customer like a particular solution, who is any third party to dictate whether that solution is good enough or not?

    This incompatible by design philosophy is also the reason that old software doesn't work on newer distros. On top of everything, there are several combinations of kernel versions, library versions, compiler versions and the like which make even FOSS tough to work w/, since one can't freely mix and match, due to incompatibilities that already exist. Things like drivers should be a write-once, forget about it deal. It's not that way in Linux. In Windows, the only time there has been a disruption has been when the very base of the OS has changed, like going from Windows ME to Windows 2000, or XP to Vista (since the latter was a migration from a win32 to a win64 OS). Allowing things like blogs also forces some discipline w/ OS makers, and forces them to maintain backwards compatibility.

    The FSF is not a live-and-let-live organization - their whole philosophy is about disrupting the businesses of others by encouraging things like boycotts and the like. That's not the deal w/ the OSI. Otherwise, I'd have had no problems w/ them. Maybe the organization should become more independent of RMS, for starters - I wonder whether the rest of their membership are really as fanatical as he is?

  21. Re:Open source foundations - what next? by unixisc · · Score: 1

    From what I understand, Debian wasn't previously a member of OSI, but joined them not too long ago. I guess being tarred by the FSF for not being free enough (by providing separately the option of un-liberated software for those who wanted them) probably made them decide that they're better off w/ an open-source certification as well, in addition to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.

  22. OSI by booch · · Score: 1

    Seems like that would be a good role for the Open Software Initiative.

    --
    Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.