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Ubuntu Focusing on Tablets and the Cloud in 2013
sfcrazy writes "Mark Shuttleworth, the founder of Ubuntu, has shared his plans for 2013. It was clear from the Nexus 7 initiative that Ubuntu is eventually looking into the mobile space more seriously. Google created the cheap device Ubuntu was looking for wider testing and development. The initial builds of Ubuntu for Nexus 7 also showed that, despite popular perception, Unity is far from ready for the mobile devices. In fact quite a lot of 'controversial' technologies introduced in Unity don't fit on a mobile devices such as Global Menus or HUD. So there are many challenges for Mark — redesign Unity for mobile, which may upset users again, get Ubuntu app developers to redesign apps for Ubuntu mobile, get top developers to write apps for Ubuntu... Is it all feasible when companies like RIM or Microsoft are struggling or is Ubuntu becoming a 'me too' company which is not brining anything new to the table and is simply trying to claim a pie?"
Shuttleworth also wants to do something or other with the cloud: "It’s also why we’ll push deeper into the cloud, making it even easier, faster and cost effective to scale out modern infrastructure on the cloud of your choice, or create clouds for your own consumption and commerce."
This is all well and good, but Ubuntu and other Gnome based desktops still can not deal with retina displays well yet (unless you go to kubuntu, and even KDE is iffy). Why aren't they working on this? There are good laptops out there that we can't use yet, and I haven't seen any indications anyone a Canonical cares. IMHO this is a lot more important than getting it on the Nexus line (as cool as that might be).
As long as we can run our own cloud on our own server at home, I'm all for it. Otherwise, screw it. I don't want to give any company control over my own godamn data.
And now the diaspora of real users who need desktops. It seriously escapes me why everyone is on the race to the cloud and tablets when you need real regular computers to develop the apps for them. Even if tools are available, development on anything but a physical keyboard is a chore.
And fuck all the other 'curated' computing for dummies initiatives based around the Cathedral model. Glad not all distros are going this way.
Canonical's actions are taking it into a downward spiral. As much as I thought Linspire has messed a good thing up they at least stuck to one thing (the desktop).
despite popular perception, Unity is far from ready for the mobile devices.
That must be Shuttleworth's perception. The popular perception is that Unity is not ready for anything, and will likely stay like that because it is a terrible design in the first place.
I think is time for Mark to take another view of the Earth again, it's clear that Ubuntu is going nowhere at this point. Linux on the desktop didn't happen but it did make it to the hands of many as "Android".
The opportunity to build a tablet with a "free" (i.e. included at no extra cost) operating system has passed Ubuntu by. Google, and Apple for that matter, have already done it. Those two also enjoy a big advantage over Ubuntu - a massive collection of apps optimized for the tablet form factor. If you're a hobbyist then I could see wanting to run Ubuntu on a tablet but otherwise I don't quite see the point of it all.
"Itâ(TM)s also why weâ(TM)ll push deeper into the cloud, making it even easier, faster and cost effective to scale out modern infrastructure on the cloud of your choice, or create clouds for your own consumption and commerce."
I feel Mark had 3 pegs more than normal when he spoke the above. Can anyone suggest a proper geek-speak version?
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
The Ubuntu desktop and server, presently receiving short shrift, begin to slide downhill towards eventual obscurity.
The tablet thing has worked out well for Ballmer and Windows 8, hasn't it?
Apparently I'm out of touch with popular perception, I though Unity was made for mobile devices.
I wouldn't mind claiming a pie and consuming some clouds with it, too.
I've been using Unity too long to remember exactly what it was that I originally loathed about it, but I don't think the global menu and the HUD were on my radar. Maybe the implementation of the Launcher? Lack of customizability? Lenses instead of app menus?
Microsoft is already paying for its idiotic cloud and tablet-based design of Windows 8 and Surface. I cannot possibly believe that Ubuntu is that out of touch with what its users really want. How about a computer. That's all they really want is a computer. Let them use 3rd party cloud apps for cloud stuff and install Ubuntu on a tablet themselves if they want a tablet. As long as they just make an OS that works on a real, actual computer, users can't really complain much.
It's not like tablets are full-fledged PCs
Retina displays are on amd64 laptops too.
What can Ubuntu do on a tablet that Android can't?
Lots of things. Say you have an app built using the LAMP stack; and want to tun it on the tablet. You can't do that on Android since the APM stack is still not good enough in Android. So you either rewrite your app in Android-Java, or run it in a browser, hosted elsewhere on a proper Intel server. But Ubuntu on a tablet would be a better fit in more than 90% use cases.
It's not like tablets are full-fledged PCs
Why not? Like a PC, a tablet has a CPU, RAM, enough storage, and more options for 100% always-on networking than the PC's LAN or WiFi. Many tablets support full USB so keyboards and mice can be connected when required.
Android is just the Linux kernel without GNU; a full fledged GNU/Linux would be a very useful gadget.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
what is the difference between a tablet and a fully fledged PC? My first response would be that it could run raw linux apps without re-codoing them significantly.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Clearly Unity is unsuitable for the desktop, so many of us dumped it. We assumed it was designed with myopic focus on mobile, and made jokes about it being for a one meter tablet to be worked with knees and elbows. But now mobile users are saying it is poorly designed for that space also. Canonical needs to toss their UI rubbish in the can, leave that to those who are gifted at it.
Ubuntu will focus on a *few* tablets and the cloud.
Tablet are more similar to (smart)phones than to PCs.
First, they have different hardware and, even with the same "model", they can have different variants in order to accommodate different mobile networks (mainly 3G (aka UMTS) vs 4G (LTE) or different SoCs.
So I would say Ubuntu won't focus on the whole tablet market.
Second, they have limited resources. Not the CPU, but the "internal" storage. Yes, it can be grow up to 64GB. But the I/O performances are far from spindles and SSDs.
Third, they don't have a keyboard. It's trivial, but keyboards are still important.
But OK. Let's say Ubuntu will focus just on ASUS Nexus 7/10 and Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7/10.
Will the "rich" experience Ubuntu promotes fit into a tablet?
Let's say "yes". And then?
What do you use your Ubuntu box for? Email? Browsing? Documents? Development?
would you do the same on a tablet? Likely not.
Email and web bropwsing needs a fairly high amount of input (unless you just read email and browse only by clicks).
In the end, yes Ubuntu will provide a distribution for tablets. But that will not be the real Ubuntu we all love. It'll be a stripped down version for a limited usage.
I would not call the latter "Ubuntu" any more.
And I've not yet put on ther table the issues with installing a modded firmware on a 300/400+ USD tablety. Because Ubuntu for tablets will be seen as a modded (aka aftermarket) firmware by manufacturers, thus no support nor warranty anymore.
And even so, you can rely on a rock solid Linux distribution like Cyanogenmod, that's much more mature than any other.
No, I don't think Ubuntu will REALLY focus on tablets. It will more likely "officially" focus on tables for marketing purposes.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
mobile data plans suck for cloud use even unlimited ones with slow down after useing X data and don't even think of roaming as well.
I got an Android tablet last week. It is very frustrating. Half of the stuff does not work if you do not have a Google acount or are not willing to tie your device that closely to an advertising company. The one-app-at-a-time UI is constraining. I would much rather a system like APT to manage installed packages. An Ubuntu distribution on a tablet with a tiling window manager and the ability to run Android apps would be awesome.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
You can port onto phones with comparative ease. But there are both limitations and enhancements.
You can use the phone's sensors, crowd source data, use location info more meaningfully, and interact with the user with whatever touch mechanisms are supported.
But there are severe limitations: storage is small and not getting larger quickly. User space isn't huge. You're limited to 32bit memory models. There aren't serious math co-pros, but ARM does integer math quickly enough. And despite what you've heard, ARM still uses power, and doesn't magically become a Xeon. Even with multiple cores, you don't get multiple work.
That said, the screen IO gets faster, juicier, and more colorful all the time. I'd love to have Debian underneath, rather than Google anything on my phone.
But I think that Shuttleworth doesn't understand cloud. Civilians aren't going to do much with cloud because Shuttleworth overestimates civilians. They don't have time to program, they just want to use this stuff-- that's why they pay others to do the work in the form of program loads and competitive *native* features. They're just not going to create and port a LAMP stack, then do geophysics array curve fitting. Instead: they're going to play games, and not ones they wrote themselves.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
So Unity was designed for tablets, but it now has to be redesigned to actually work on tablets? And which tablets? Devices tailor-made for another OS? Comedy gold from Canonical.
What saddens me is that Canonical's roots are in Africa. A huge place where there is sporadic 3G connection.
I'd really like someone to explain to me how their vision of 'the Cloud' can work when there is no universal 3G data connection available to the majority of the people. Perhaps they have forgotten what Ubuntu originally meant?
Then there is the cost of 3G. Don't even get me started on 4G (EE is a joke) data plans.
Until they become IMHO an order of magnitude cheaper then frankly you can forget universal cloud adoption.
Cloud afficitionados seem to forget (or have a blind spot) this (insignificant in their eyes at least) essential feature.
I run my own private cloud but I am under no illusions about the sort of connectivity I will have to it from the parts of the world where I do most of my business namely, the Middle East, South Asia and North Africa.
I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
One option Canonical might want to consider is becoming an Applications Service Provider based on Ubuntu server, and hosting their services for customers. They may not be able to compete w/ the likes of RedHat/CentOS/OEL, Debian, Slackware or Gentoo, but if they do it as an apps service, they'd probably have a better chance of keeping the lights on. Maybe target those SMB or smaller segments not addressed by the likes of even a Dell or HP, and they should be good to go.
But I don't see them displacing Android in the tablet arena, and I don't see them displacing either Debian nor Red Hat nor FreeBSD or even OpenBSD in the server arena. And I see them losing desktop dominance to Mint and Mageia as time goes on, and maybe even PC-BSD.
I wish that before seizing new platforms, some focus would go on laptop compatibility, especially with WiFi - which has taken a major downturn since 10.x. People keep bringing me netbooks to put Linux on and I have to send them away disappointed with a reinstall of Windows because current Ubuntu releases dont work with a lot of WiFi chips that worked beautifully in 10.04. I've wasted far too much of my life configuring sketchy 3rd-party WiFi drivers that crash permanently 2 weeks later...
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
A unilateral decision by Shuttleworth to splinter the community and move onto his own thing (Unity) is proof enough for me that he is a fiefdom builder. I've switched back to Fedora which has a track record of quality by and for the community.
Ubuntu is doomed. If tablets are Ubuntu's goal, they fucked up already: first off, Unity, which is drek on the desktop is also drek on tablets - so they alienated a large part of the desktop users in favor of nothing (add the local search beamed to Amazon thing for extra bonus points of alienation).
And in the meantime, KDE waltzes in, almost effortlessly creates Plasma and already now there is a distribution, Plasma Active, running on the Nexus 7, and it's actually usable and easy on the eyes.
I should also mention that the tablet marketplace is cutthroat-competitive, and even Microsoft has its work cut out to get in.
Ubuntu should step back from the precipice right fucking now.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Or could it be that the people complaining about Unity doesn't know how to change to to Xubuntu, Kubuntu and so on? A lot of the comments are "Unity is crap" bla bla. I just don't get it, If you don't like Unity, just use Xubuntu or whatever. Unity has been here for over a year now, it's here too stay, just use Xubuntu or whatever if you don't like it.
Ubuntu got where it did today by starting with the Debian/Gnome2 "stack" and iterating on it by making incremental UI changes until they had something unique.
I don't think you get into the mobile space by taking the result of that effort and shoving it onto a tablet. (Look how well this strategy worked for Windows CE.)
I think they'd end up with a much better product if they started with the open source parts of Android, a successful mobile OS, and iterated on *that* to improve the user experience as they see fit.
In order to work nicely with the rest of their world they'd probably need to start by replacing Android's build system with one based on Debian's build system that can produce .debs that combine into a working system, but the result would be a mobile OS that works in an open source repo-ish way rather than an "app store" way... Canonical can then wrap an app-store-like "software center" around it like they did in Ubuntu desktop.
I'm not sure that anyone would be interested in such a thing, but I'm pretty sure it would go down better than a port of Unity.
What can Ubuntu do on a tablet that Android can't?
Run natively...
when someone prefers XFCE to Unity, they are still benefiting from enormous efforts by hundreds of people to make the core Ubuntu platform
I feel truly depressed. A quick look at some Debian packages with apt-get showsrc xfce4-terminal shows 2 uploaders, and the work being done mostly by Yves-Alexis Perez. Then having a look at the Ubuntu package shows that there's almost no work at all from Ubuntu on that package, but the rework of 2 patches, AND THAT'S IT.
So, instead of a self-satisfying self-congratulation, and telling about the "hundreds of people" behind it, Marc should truly thanks the thousands of Debian Developer doing the real work FOR FREE (and the other thousands of maintainers who aren't DD and get their package sponsored). These are the real persons that makes it possible.
If you’ve been arguing over software licenses for the best part of 15 years then you would probably be fine with whatever came before Ubuntu.
If what Marc is saying here is that Ubuntu doesn't care anymore that software should be free (as in Freedom), then yes, it's time that everyone stops using Ubuntu. By the way the recent global search spyware finished to convince more and more people.
Whether you’re building out a big data cluster or a super-scaled storage solution, you’ll get it done faster on Ubuntu than any other platform, thanks to the amazing work of our cloud community.
With all the due respect Marc, I believe my Folsom packages of Openstack, which I'm slowly uploading to Debian experimental (but also available on a non-official repo), are both better and more easy to use than the ones currently in Ubuntu. You'd better stop touching yourself, and remove these lintian warnings which are all over the place on the Ubuntu packaging.
Consider it a gift from all of us at Ubuntu.
That's it, now I want to slap you in the face... We are talking about COMMUNITY SOFTWARE, not Canonical. Neither XFCE or Openstack are (c) Canonical. If you want a list of the top committers in each project to show you are wrong, I can do that, no pb.
Lots of things. Say you have an app built using the LAMP stack; and want to tun it on the tablet. You can't do that on Android since the APM stack is still not good enough in Android. So you either rewrite your app in Android-Java, or run it in a browser, hosted elsewhere on a proper Intel server. But Ubuntu on a tablet would be a better fit in more than 90% use cases.
90% of tablet use cases are updating Facebook and Twitter or playing Angry Birds while you're sitting on a toilet or in the metro.
If you're so inclined to run a dev stack on your tablet, you can go the way of debootstrap - chroot - apt-get on any developer friendly Android tablet.
As any pilot can tell you, pushing deeply into clouds often results in disorientation and losing one's way. Of course if one is already lost, I guess you're not really risking much.
As others already explained we could finally run all the fine GNU/Linux programs out there.
As an example, we need a proper usenet client for tablets, I'd love to run something like Thunderbird on my Nexus 7, including pop3 support for offline reading of mail.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
While many of you are busy writing angry comments about one of the zillion distros, because you don't seem to know that it's deadeasy to change windowmanagers/desktop to whatever you want, i'll load up Steam on Ubuntu and play some good games. Or maybe Spotify. On my Ubuntu 12.10. At least i can do these things on Linux! in 2012, nothings impossible. Cheer up. Even we nerds doesn't want the "compile Gentoo" stuff all the time. Thank Mark for helping bringing Linux to the masses. Do what you wan't with your money and vision, and don't let the forumgnabbers get to you.:)
This would be nice, but existing tablets don't have the capacity or the speed to index my local work mailboxes. I know it's ridiculous it takes an I7 to run Tbird acceptably fast, but that is how it is.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Isn't 'bad', as if you dont grab a piece quick enough, you get no pie.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Does the Plasma Active distro play nicely with Android? Will it install cleanly and still dual-boot with Android? Or does it even have the necessay kernel mods so it can actually run Android and plasma active together?
Wish I had points. What would you recommend as an alternative? I've been contemplating going back to Gentoo, but am a bit reluctant because of the initial time investment. Mint looks promising. Haven't had to think about this in 5 years, and feeling a bit rusty :S.
Mint is good. I've been very happy with Ubuntu till they begin to force Unity down my throat.
Whichever environment you like, you'll feel at home with either xfce, lxde, kde, mate or cinammon.
It's not like tablets are full-fledged PCs
I'll be sure to tell my near-decade old HP TC1100 that.
Lots of things. Say you have an app built using the LAMP stack; and want to tun it on the tablet. You can't do that on Android since the APM stack is still not good enough in Android. So you either rewrite your app in Android-Java, or run it in a browser, hosted elsewhere on a proper Intel server. But Ubuntu on a tablet would be a better fit in more than 90% use cases.
It's not like tablets are full-fledged PCs
Why not? Like a PC, a tablet has a CPU, RAM, enough storage, and more options for 100% always-on networking than the PC's LAN or WiFi. Many tablets support full USB so keyboards and mice can be connected when required.
Android is just the Linux kernel without GNU; a full fledged GNU/Linux would be a very useful gadget.
Ditch the conditional: now there is a distro (based off the MeeGo work) that you can install on tablets
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
You might want to give archlinux a chance. You might like it. Customizable, "cutting edge" and supposedly not that hard to maintain once you know what you're doing.
I've got Thunderbird with a couple of years of private mail on an Atom powered netbook and it's fine.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I agree. Plasma Active is looking to be the default Linux for Tablets. You can't shoehorn touch onto WIMP, even Microsoft has conceded that.
"I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!"
-Jennifer Saunders as Edina Monsoon
Android is just the Linux kernel without GNU; a full fledged GNU/Linux would be a very useful gadget.
Useful gadget for the 200 people who would buy one.
Say you have an app built using the LAMP stack; and want to tun it on the tablet.
You want to run an Apache+MySQL+PHP app *on* a tablet? You are doing it wrong.
" we know, scientifically, that Ubuntu with Unity is better" What does that even mean?
I guess someone thinks Linux needs a piece of shit spying variant to compete with like Apple, Google, and Microsoft. No thanks, I won't touch anything Ubuntu or Canonical ever.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I was a huge believer in Ubuntu and Shuttleworth. I always thought that the combination of free software and a unified vision from a benevolent dictator would do to ubuntu what Linus has done to Linux. Unfortunately Shuttleworth is no Torvalds. In the last few years, Ubuntu chase so many different directions not based on real innovation but on going after what other companies have done already. It was the Desktop (after Windows and OSX; remember when Unity was promised to be better than OS X? Well many are still waiting). It was Ubuntu on the netbooks, the revolution that never happened. It was Ubuntu TV, and we know how far that went. It is now Ubuntu for phones. The fact of the matter is, the vision might even be acceptable, but then if that it is, the development method should follow. Unity is a pretty recent creature, they could have designed with mobile in mind since the beginning. Instead, no, we will have lots of breakage, inconsistency, while the current version of Unity will most likely starve for the lack of polish that it has been in the needs for so long. I lost any confidence on the relevance of Ubuntu, simply because, as long as they keep chasing the market leaders, and changing goals, the half-baked product will never make it. To me this is, a failure on Mr. Shuttleworth himself.
Some sort of cloud has seeped in through his left ear and is now between his brain and his senses. He's always fascinated by the next shiny object, I am so glad I dumped Ubuntu last year and went back to Debian. Yeah, I know I am going to get downmoderated for saying this, but I have grown new respect for a distribution that just stays the course, year after year, doing what they do best and not trying to emulate Microsoft, Apple, or Google. I like my keyboard just fine, thank you. I like having control over my data and my programs, right on my own computer, and not on someone else's where their incompetence or greed causes me grief at some indeterminate point in the future. The computer IS more than the Internet. Behold discrete data stores, cherish them, and they can be truly yours.
What about going back to the source, and use Debian.
I actually like the Ubuntu backend simply because of the excellent driver support. However, I'm done with Unity (aka AmazonOS) and am actually running vanilla gnome 3 right now. BTW, gnome 3 is the way to go for a hybrid interface that actually works on both touchscreen and traditional platforms. Plus the extensible architecture means that true canonical innovations (like the HUD, the only thing from Unity I actually miss) could be implemented as extensions to gnome shell rather than a full blown fork. And I still think the gnome 3 developers need to get off their high horse and actually acknowledge that different users have different preferences as far as how the desktop and menu system should work.
seconded plasma active seems useful its stylish and above all easy to use. i`ve tried ubuntu even unity on this tablet and it is only workable with a mouse really. plasma active has a system of work spaces a bit like androids home screens. but there is a kind of dial effect to select the one you want. initially there is just one âoewelcomeâoe but you can create them as needed. the on screen keyboard appears when needed and is easy to type on. each activity space has its own background which makes them easy to identify. there does appear to be a bug as hitting return doesnt make a new line in this text box. It works in kwrite thou. I have only just installed plasma active on this archos g9 101. while i can easily switch between android and ubuntu with a multi boot option this currently requires a quick flash of the zimage to switch operating systems. somewhat awkward but it does seem a good enough os that there isnt an urgent need to switch. dispite my dislike of kde it is better for this tablet than gnome, unity, xfe and matchbox. Android is best thou at this stage. Anyway this is my first post from my archos g9 101 running plasma active.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
Well, mostly due to the time it takes to get a newer version of a package (I don't know if this is still relevant to what I need at this time). I don't actually know if they are still behind as they used to be but if their general process hadn't changed I imagine that'd still be the case.
I like that argument. Let me try it on for size...
Why not? Like a supercomputer, a tablet has a CPU, RAM, enough storage, and more options for 100% always-on networking than the supercomputer's LAN or WiFi. Many tablets support full USB so keyboards and mice can be connected when required.
Why not? Like a racecar, a Pinto has wheels, a motor, seating...
Why not? Like a battleship, a corvette has guns, armed crewmen, floats on water...
Why not? Like an intergalactic spaceship, a space shuttle has engines, a crew, an atmosphere...
Why not? Like a stills camera, a movie camera has a lens, apeture controls, film gate, film and somewhere to load it...
I think I could go on like this for hours. In fact...
Why not? Like a dictionary, this has pages of text (depending on page size), words describing a topic, a list of exceptions...
This is just not truth. Packages in Ubuntu are first uploaded to Debian SID and then imported to Ubuntu before they freeze the next release. So if you want to stay on the edge, use Debian SID. And if that's too much "on the edge" for you, then use Debian testing. This is where bugs are fixed first. The only thing who are updated separately and maintained by Canonical used to be popular packages like Gnome, PHP, and the like. Just to stay on these examples, nowadays, Canonical focuses on Unity, and their PHP package is still using PHP 5.3 because of compatibility problems. Things they don't care of are first fixed in Debian (for example: XCP).
The distro who is behind is Ubuntu, not Debian. And that's truth because of "their general process", who didn't change.
I guess the question that comes to my mind is: Why would anyone want to run a LAMP stack on a relatively expensive tablet, when there are cheaper and more suitable low-power options available?
You want to run an Apache+MySQL+PHP app *on* a tablet? You are doing it wrong.
Why is this wrong? A tablet has a 1GHz+ CPU, 256MB+ RAM and a network interface, and option to connect a keyboard and mouse as well. I can get a 10" tablet for under $180 from Archos for this purpose. So why is it wrong to expect to run my LAMP stack app on this? Should I redesign my entire code on Android Java stack just because Google expects me to?
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Wait...you can still access Usenet?
My question is how has slashdot changed so much that this is even a question?
Why would anyone ever want to port DOOM to a graphing calculator?
Why would you want to put Windows on a macbook or vice versa?
Because :
1) I'm bored
2) I wonder if...
3) because it is there.
4) why not
5) this might be an improvement or I might learn something in the process
etc, etc
And yet, no one say "dude, why do you want a battleship, corvette already exist". Or the reverse.
.
Did firewire win in the end? Honest question.
Maybe you are talking about software vs hardware? If that is the case, Windows won but is it the best OS tech?
Am I missing what you are saying?
I come here for the love
Getting Ubuntu to run and be usable on a 7 inch touch screen does not advance a solution to Ubuntu Bug #1. There is still significant work to be done on advancing Ubuntu on the desktop, and moving to mobile is not going to fix that.
Ah, thanks for the info.
Ah,thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it and also thanks for not snarling at my typo.