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Bloomberg: Steve Jobs Behind NYC Crime Wave

theodp writes "Rudy Giuliani had John Gotti to worry about; Mike Bloomberg has Steve Jobs. Despite all-time lows for the city in homicides and shootings, NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg said overall crime in New York City was up 3.3% in 2012 due to iPhone, iPad and other Apple device thefts, which have increased by 3,890 this year. 'If you just took away the jump in Apple, we'd be down for the year,' explained Marc La Vorgna, the mayor's press secretary. 'The proliferation of people carrying expensive devices around is so great,' La Vorgna added. 'It's something that's never had to be dealt with before.' Bloomberg also took to the radio, urging New Yorkers who didn't want to become a crime statistic to keep their iDevices in an interior, hard-to-reach pocket: 'Put it in a pocket in sort of a more body-fitting, tighter clothes, that you can feel if it was — if somebody put their hand in your pocket, not just an outside coat pocket.' But it seems the best way to fight the iCrime Wave might be to slash the $699 price of an iPhone (unactivated), which costs an estimated $207 to make. The U.S. phone subsidy model reportedly adds $400+ to the price of an iPhone. So, is offering unlocked alternatives at much more reasonable prices than an iPhone — like the $299 Nexus 4, for starters — the real key to taking a bite out of cellphone crime? After all, didn't dramatic price cuts pretty much kill car stereo theft?"

45 of 311 comments (clear)

  1. The real issue by cunniff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not the *cost* of the iPhone. It's the *black market resale value* that drives theft.

    It's uncomfortable allowing a third party to be able to permanently brick your phone or other device, but if that were a commonly-used option, the resale value would quickly drop down close to zero.

    As always - back up your data, and don't store important personal information on your easily-stolen device...

    1. Re:The real issue by BradleyUffner · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not the *cost* of the iPhone. It's the *black market resale value* that drives theft.

      It's uncomfortable allowing a third party to be able to permanently brick your phone or other device, but if that were a commonly-used option, the resale value would quickly drop down close to zero.

      As always - back up your data, and don't store important personal information on your easily-stolen device...

      The cost of the iPhone is what drives the black market price up to begin with. If the price from a retailer wasn't so high the amount of money paid for stolen phones wouldn't be nearly as high either (except during shortages) and the incentive to steal them would go down as well.

    2. Re:The real issue by icebike · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed.
      Now that the major carriers have all agreed to kill phones that are reported stolen (like most European carriers) , the in-country black market value should drop to zero.
      There is still the export option for stolen phones.

      But to a certain extent the price of the phone sets the black market value as well. And that price is just too high.

      And further, I have my doubts about the claim at the bottom of the summary:
        The U.S. phone subsidy model reportedly adds $400+ to the price of an iPhone.

      According to Apple's own web page the cost of an unlocked an contract free iphone5 (cheapest model) is $649. ($849 for the one with the big GBs).

      So how does the subsidy enter into that equation?

      It shouldn't unless Apple is propping up the price to support Carrier subsidy plans.

      But why would Apple do that? The carriers make every cent of that subsidy back and never reduce the price of your monthly bill. Apple could sell at 100% markup and still beat carrier pricing. Instead Apple sells at well over 200% markup even when you buy direct with cash up front. No other manufacturer rakes in that much cash.

      T-Mobile is ending subsidization of phones. (You can still buy it on time, but its a separate contract that has an end date).

      --
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    3. Re:The real issue by Roblimo · · Score: 2

      Whatever. Somehow I doubt that the black market resale value of the HTC Android phone I bought from Virgin for $149 is anywhere near the black market resale value of an iPhone.

    4. Re:The real issue by clarkkent09 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The cause of theft: people carry items worth stealing!
      The cause of rape: ?

      Please follow the same logic and see how idiotic it is.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    5. Re:The real issue by Roblimo · · Score: 5, Funny

      In fact, for the cost of an unlocked iPhone I could buy an HTC Android phone and a .22 pistol and get a Florida CCW and still have enough money for a whole lot of whiskey to drink at home so I don't have to go out and expose my precious smarty phone to criminals in the first place.

      Yeah!

    6. Re:The real issue by DarkTempes · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hope you step on a lego.

    7. Re:The real issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does that imply the $699 unlocked price of the Samsung SIII isn't a high amount since thieves mostly target the iPhone?

      I hope not. The variable being ignored is brand recognition. You're going to have an easier time and probably ultimately make more money off of selling Toyota Corollas on the black market than you are PT Cruisers, simply because more people in the area tend to buy Corollas than PT Cruisers. In the US, it's fairly safe to assume that the iPhone has the brand recognition over the SIII, so it's a safer bet to sell iPhones on the black market than SIIIs. That seems to be a shrinking gap between the two, but it is still there in the US.

      BradleyUffner is partially right, though, in that there's not going to be as much demand to pay $400 on the black market what you can buy for similar or less legally. There'll still be some black market present probably, no matter the cost you lower it to, but the lower the price, the less attractive the black market alternative is going to be. Also, at a certain point, when its easier to get it legally and price is no longer an issue, there's probably going to be less people interested in the alternative deal that the black market will present to them.

    8. Re:The real issue by Ironhandx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing protecting the S3 is obscurity. Its harder to identify amongst a host of other cheaper products, On the other hand if they steal an apple phone they know the price is high and that theres a resale market for it and its ridiculously easy to identify.

    9. Re:The real issue by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Plus the majority of smartphones in America are iPhones and the majority of tablets are iPads. Even if thieves were blind, and stealing randomly, they'd steal more iDevices than all the other brands added together.

    10. Re:The real issue by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Although one has to wonder how big the market for iPhones really is. It's not the like the vast majority of consumers aren't stuck paying one of the big carriers for a monthly sub anyway, and for them how much cheaper is a stolen iPhone than the carrier price anyway?

      But then with phones it's a little easier. The EU has been working on this, stolen phones should be blacklisted from carriers. If you can't resell them, what is the point of stealing them? There is still the overseas market but it eliminates a lot of the casual disorganized piracy, and the EU and US databases should be able to talk to each other.

    11. Re:The real issue by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      Followup

      http://www.rcrwireless.com/article/20120412/devices/att-verizon-sprint-and-t-mobile-usa-agree-to-block-stolen-phones/

    12. Re:The real issue by tnk1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that Apple charges that price not to support subsidies, but rather, because they know they can charge what they want and subsidies will make it affordable for end users. It's like health care or education. If the government makes it so you can get grants or low interest loans, then that means you can make your undergrad programs 25-30K a year, and most people will still be able to pay it. Apple counts on the cell phone companies for spreading the very high cost out so that it doesn't look like it is as much as it is.

      Of course, there is certainly a level of symbiosis involved, but I think Apple looked at existing situations with subsidies and saw a pricing scheme that would allow them to break into a market with their high markup items and have it not sting as much for the end user. Apple can not, and to their credit, will not compete in situations where there they will be unable to secure a high unit price for their product. The wireless market was a slam dunk for them, in that regard.

    13. Re:The real issue by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The cause of theft: people carry items worth stealing! The cause of rape: ?

      Please follow the same logic and see how idiotic it is.

      Let's take your logic the other way:

      The cause of being kidnapped and executed in drug-lord-controlled areas of foreign countries: visiting drug-lord-controlled areas of foreign countries

      Well you're right: it's not the cause, but a contributory factor. I would appreciate being told where these drug-lord-controlled (or guerilla-rebel-held) areas are so that I can avoid them. And if I have to pass through them, I would appreciate advice about how not to get kidnapped for ransom.

      --
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    14. Re:The real issue by sribe · · Score: 2

      Instead Apple sells at well over 200% markup even when you buy direct with cash up front.

      Which of course explains why they "only" get 45% margins on iPhones. Oh, wait, no it doesn't ;-)

    15. Re:The real issue by PCM2 · · Score: 2

      While much of Harlem is white, the crime statistics for the U.S. don't paint a good picture for blacks.

      What do you mean by "crime statistics"? Perhaps you mean arrest statistics? Or incarceration statistics? Because such statistics don't necessarily indicate that blacks commit more crimes, only that we tend to arrest them and lock them up more often.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    16. Re:The real issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The variable being ignored is brand recognition.

      If thieves can tell them apart how come Apple's lawyers think there is brand confusion?

    17. Re:The real issue by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      Bloomberg is imagining things.

      I dropped my Windows 8 smartphone on the busy sidewalk by accident three days ago and it was still there this morning. Whew!

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    18. Re:The real issue by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      Don't know how this got to +5 insightful...

      Because I'm right. For example, current US market share is 53.3% for iPhone. Android share is only 41.9%

      http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57560421-37/iphone-snags-its-highest-u.s-market-share-ever-says-report/

  2. Worst headline ever by kthreadd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Interesting statistics, but seriously Steve Jobs died in 2011. And even if he was still alive he personally would not be responsible or connected to any form of crime wave in New York.

    1. Re:Worst headline ever by doku_hebi_ryu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not just the headline. The whole thing is google fanboy trash.

    2. Re:Worst headline ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There isn't even an article here. It's just a troll summary with a bunch of unrelated links pimping Android devices. At least if they would have compared the SIII to the iPhone, it would be so blatant. The Nexus 4 has no storage or even LTE... It's right inline with the free phones.

      How the hell does he equate "Crime Is Up and Bloomberg Blames iPhone Thieves" to "Bloomberg: Steve Jobs Behind NYC Crime Wave"? That is libelous, since using the "Bloomberg:" prefix implies that it is a Bloomberg quote, which it isn't.

  3. So by the logic of this article... by CajunArson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So they are saying that it is "unfair" that iWhatevers cost a bunch so making them cheap means nobody will steal them.

    So using this jumping-the-tracks train of logic, we should make guns free so no criminal will ever want to steal one. BINGO!

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    1. Re:So by the logic of this article... by Kjella · · Score: 2

      So using this jumping-the-tracks train of logic, we should make guns free so no criminal will ever want to steal one. BINGO!

      No, you just took the facepalm to a new level because criminals steal guns since they can't legally buy them, not because they can't afford them. Fundamentally, the article is right because thieves don't steal for shits and giggles, but because you have valuables and because that value exceeds the risk. Just like every tourist guide will warn you not to wear your expensive jewelry to the slum areas. Where the article goes off the rails is in suggesting that we shouldn't have expensive items in an effort to reduce crime. If you extended that to say burglary then we should all live like Tibetan monks. Sure, there's very little reason to robbing them, but the cure is worse than the disease (with no offense to people who choose to live that way). If a $200 phone can do what my $600 phone used to do that's great, but I'm doing it for the $400 and not to reduce crime.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:So by the logic of this article... by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2

      >Fundamentally, the article is right because thieves don't steal for shits and giggles

      The depends on the thief. I would suggest your premise is mostly correct, the majority of theft is for profit, but large amount is done just so the thief can have the item independent of the items value. Many times thieves are caught and their reasons fall along the lines of 'we thought it would be fun'.

  4. This is borderline ridiculous by itsphilip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The way this is written is so absurdly biased; if you want to promote Android devices, just come out and say it. Don't use some arbitrary statistic to promote your agenda. That's like blaming the former CEO of Lexus for making a desirable vehicle that is prone to theft as a result of its desirability or popularity.

    1. Re:This is borderline ridiculous by statusbar · · Score: 2

      No, really, it is Steve Job's fault - personally - that since the devices are loved so much by users, the re-sale black market price is high allowing big profits for people who steal them. If ONLY Steve Job made the products lousy, no one would pay for them! and no one would steal them!

      Uh.... I wonder if the criminals DON'T steal the Android phones?

      Criminal: "Give me your iPhone!"

      Geek: "I have an Android phone!"

      Criminal: "Darn, ok you can keep your Android."

      ???

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    2. Re:This is borderline ridiculous by Krishnoid · · Score: 4, Informative

      a desirable vehicle that is prone to theft as a result of its desirability or popularity.

      Offtopic, but Lexus doesn't even figure in the top ten. I think the Honda Accord and Civic have topped that list for years -- earlier-model ones, for that matter.

  5. Victim blaming by enabran · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you don't want to have your iPhone stolen stop using it in public.

    Great.

    1. Re:Victim blaming by BradleyUffner · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you don't want to have your iPhone stolen stop using it in public.

      Great.

      Or stop advertising that you have one on you by wearing it like a fashion accessory. Ahh, wait, that would defeat the entire point of owning one. What a dilemma.

  6. Bloomberg is too busy... by dfenstrate · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...Being a lecturing nanny to actually see that the normal functions of a city government are performed.
    Note his wars on large sodas and restuarant menus, while bedbugs run rampant.
    He wags his finger at Apple because crooks are loose in his city. And he has his PIs make straw purchases of firearms in far-away states, violating federal law for masterbatory political posturing.
    Why do New Yorkers elect this clown?

    --
    Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
    1. Re:Bloomberg is too busy... by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 2

      Why do New Yorkers elect this clown?

      As George Carlin explains "this is the best we can do folks". Bloomberg is just a reflection of the people who vote this clown in.

  7. Is Apple responsible for stolen devices? by ark1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    At least one lawyer successfully sued Apple and got compensated when his previous toy got stolen. Why take responsibility for your actions when you can blame someone else?

  8. Zombie attack by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Funny

    Unbeknownst to Steve, his new liver was infected with zombie juice. He didn't stay buried long. Hordes of zombies wielding iPhones now attacking New York subways, lead by Steve or what remains of him.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  9. Blame Visa Debit Cards and Electronic Payments by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I imagine that most people (such as myself) don't carry any significant quantity of cash on them anymore since most every Retailer and Restaurant will take a Visa Debit card issued from your bank.

    So it only makes sense to go after iPhones and iPads since going after someone's wallet will typically net you $60 or less, while you can offload that shiny iGadget for a couple hundred.

    If it weren't iDevices, it'd be something else.
    The real culprit here is a profound culture shift from cash based shopping to electronic payments.

    1. Re:Blame Visa Debit Cards and Electronic Payments by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Informative

      What I'm saying is that money is falling out of use, maybe not for you, but for me and many others.

      Why pay ATM fees to grab $20 or even $60, when you could just pay with a debit card and have the retailer pay for the transaction fee (aside from certain a-holes like ARCO and some corner stores that pass on the fee to the consumer)

      About a decade ago, I would typically keep about $100 in the house just because. Now days it's rare if I have $15 around at any given time. Mostly I keep a roll of quarters in the car to pay for meters, and even those are starting to go the electronic payment route.

      And if you don't like ATM fees, use the grocery store checkout as your ATM.
      Yes, you have to buy something, but a pack of Altoids is a lot less than most ATM fees, and much more invigorating ;)

  10. Terrible submission by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2

    But it seems the best way to fight the iCrime Wave might be to slash the $699 price of an iPhone (unactivated), which costs an estimated $207 to make.

    Only if you ignore such pesky things like R&D, salaries, buildings, administrative staff, operating costs, tooling costs, distribution, packaging, marketing and so on.

    Apple make a good profit from their handsets, but not the three times that the submission implies. It's also worth noting that whilst the Nexus is impressively priced, the only Android OEM that is really making any money is Samsung - everyone else isn't doing quite so well.

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  11. Re:"Wearing"? by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who "wears" an iPhone or iPad? Usually they are kept in pockets or jackets or backpacks.

    In my experience they are usually kept about chest height in front of the owner, in their left hand, and the owner is paying almost no attention to anything other than their iDevice.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  12. Re:It's not Jobs by DaMattster · · Score: 2

    Ah if only it were that simple. Americans consume excess out of status envy, depression, inferiority-complex ... you name it. They don't call it retail therapy for nothing. The subliminal messages in the ads try to make you feel inferior or backward if you don't buy the latest and greatest gadget. Ignore the ads, work on your self-esteem in positive ways, and gain a sense of independence.

  13. Most ridiculous Slashdot Fandroid story ever by schnell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if thieves were blind, and stealing randomly, they'd steal more iDevices than all the other brands added together.

    Precisely. BTW I'm pretty accustomed to Slashdot's ever-declining state of "quality" over the last several years, but this story takes the cake - it's 1/2 article and 1/2 ludicrous Fandroid rant that somehow the real cause of the problem of increased theft of small, highly valuable electronic devices in NYC is that Apple charges too much for the 64 GB iPhone and that somehow Google's pricing for the 8 GB Nexus 4 is the solution? Are you shitting me? Can you possibly be serious?

    Slashdot, who do do you have at the wheel these days approving stories? Is it someone that actually cares, or are they just looking for the biggest flamebait submissions they can find? Through all the ups and downs, Slashdot have been my homepage for more than a decade. Please don't make this latest acquisition the one that drives me away for good.

    --
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    1. Re:Most ridiculous Slashdot Fandroid story ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      lashdot, who do do you have at the wheel these days approving stories? Is it someone that actually cares, or are they just looking for the biggest flamebait submissions they can find? Through all the ups and downs, Slashdot have been my homepage for more than a decade. Please don't make this latest acquisition the one that drives me away for good.

      If I didn't have the foreknowledge that Slashdot.org is now a corporate subsidiary of Dice Holdings (that shitty job site dice.com), I would say Slashdot.org sold out. That ship has obviously sailed.

      I can't even bring myself to use the hack-period symbols to reference it. Because that's actually too nerdy for what Slashdot.org is today. Stories like this bullshit one and banning proliferate posters (seriously, in 2012 who the fuck bans someone that isn't a spammer? Slashdot.org has an entire section named "Your Rights Online" that banning users literally shits on the spirit of) make me want to stop coming here.

      However, posts like yours still make it worthwhile. I hope you never get banned, braj.

    2. Re:Most ridiculous Slashdot Fandroid story ever by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      Please - let's not introduce rational discussion and valid points to this discussion. Based on the title and the summary, I had just about decided that Dead Steve was much more evil that I had ever believed Living Steve to be. Now, here you go, forcing me to backtrack. Alright, Dead Steve isn't any more evil than he was living. Forget Zombie Steve, forget the invasion, forget the Apple crime conspiracy. Crap - Apple bashing threads are so fun to read!

      --
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  14. Re:Markup vs profit margin by jazuki · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Markup" (and its relative "gross margin") are defined in terms of selling price versus the cost of sale.

    For a producer, the selling price is the wholesale price, for a retailer, it is the retail price. Despite Apple's own retail presence, the vast majority of iPhone sales is through carrier and other retailers, not through Apple Stores.

    The cost of sale includes not just the production cost (materials, labor) but also supply chain, unit tariffs and royalties, shipping in, etc.

    Anyways, Apple's gross margin over all products has ranged between ~40% to ~47% percent since the rise of the iPhone. This works out to a markup of 66% to 88% across all sales. Now if we assume that iPhones are particularly profitable, with estimated margins of up to 55%, that works out to a markup of ~120%. While not bad, it isn't 200%.

      And, it doesn't include R&D, administration, marketing, legal, rent, taxes, etc., which also go against profit.

  15. Dramatic price cuts didn't kill car stereo theft. by mark_reh · · Score: 2, Informative

    Including a stereo in every car killed the theft. Once everyone had stereo in their car, there was no one who needed to buy stolen units.

    I'll never understand the appeal of iPhones. My wife had one (a 3GS) for three years on AT&T. It didn't work for phone calls most of the time, and data was so slow it was almost useless. She recently changed to Verizon and got an iPhone 5. Doh! The iPhone 5 can't understand her speech input (she has a slight Japanese accent), when she got it google maps was gone and the Apple maps thing was crap. Every time she called me with the 3GS (when it worked), there was about a 3 or 4 second delay before my audio would get through to her. I'd answer, say hello, and wait, and wait, and wait, until eventually she'd hear me and start talking. I'm not sure if the 5 has the same problem.

    What is it about iPhones that keeps people buying them even when they have so many problems? It's as if Apple keeps sending out alpha or beta test stuff and people happily pay through the nose to find out what works and what doesn't this time around.

  16. Re:Dramatic price cuts didn't kill car stereo thef by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2

    What is it about iPhones that keeps people buying them even when they have so many problems?

    I hate to break it to you but they probably don't have those problems.

    I've gone through a 3G, a 4, a 4S and now a 5 and I've not experienced any of the issues you describe. My friends don't have those problems either. On that basis, I don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest she's probably got a duff handset - it happens.

    My advice is to install Google Maps onto her phone (yeah, we know Apple Maps is rubbish) and if she's still having problems with the 5 then take it back to an Apple store.

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