AMD Tweaking Radeon Drivers To Reduce Frame Latency Spikes

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AMD Tweaking Radeon Drivers To Reduce Frame Latency Spikes

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday January 2, 2013 @11:11AM from the stomping-bugs-with-extreme-prejudice dept.

crookedvulture writes "Slashdot has previously covered The Tech Report's exposure of frame latency issues with recent AMD graphics processors. Both desktop and notebook Radeons exhibit frame latency spikes that interrupt the smoothness of in-game animation but don't show up in the FPS averages typically used to benchmark performance. AMD has been looking into the problem and may have discovered the culprit. The Graphics Core Next architecture underpinning recent Radeons is quite different from previous designs, and AMD has been rewriting the memory management portion of its driver to properly take advantage. This new code improves frame latencies, according to AMD's David Baumann, and the firm has accelerated the process of rolling it into the official Catalyst drivers available to end users. Radeon owners can take some comfort in the fact that a driver update may soon alleviate the frame latency problems associated with AMD's latest GPUs. However, they might also be disappointed that it's taken AMD this long to optimize its drivers for the now year-old GCN architecture."

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Give them credit by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-02 11:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

taken AMD this long to optimize its drivers for the now year-old GCN architecture.
Give them some credit... they've acknowledged the problem and this isn't a simple tweaking/bugfix, this is a complete redesign and rewrite of the entire driver architecture.
1. Re:Give them credit by hattig · 2013-01-02 11:38 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Well, it's in the memory manager portion of the driver. Memory management isn't easy at the best of times, and when you're dealing with a GPU that has thousands of cores, and each of those cores has its own local memory, and shared memory with a local cluster group, and then there are software controllable caches further up the hierarchy, I can see how writing this code could be fraught with difficulty.
  And as many of us here have worked in professional software environments, I'm sure we can all see how something that was pretty hard to pin down like these latency spikes might not have been a top priority for development, even if they were aware of it at all - after all the FPS figures were great. You'd end up with a driver kernel that had some magic that nobody would want to touch, and most of the work would be game specific optimisations and higher level optimisations. A year sounds about right really.
2. Re:Give them credit by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-02 11:50 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  More than that, this frame latency issue is new to the recent drivers - possibly even restricted to the 12.11 beta drivers, which one might expect to have the occasional issue. Further, other review sites that investigate the smoothness of gameplay, even if not by quite the same method (ex: Hard|OCP), have not found the issues that Tech Report has, which leads me to suspect that it might not be a universal issue.
  I think that Tech Report has been very irresponsible in their handling of this issue. They've been quick to condemn, ignoring that the driver is _not_ a final version, and apparently unwilling to investigate the disparity between their older results with the same cards/older drivers (which had no such frame latency issues) and their new results. Frankly, I'm not willing to give them any regard as a review site any longer - their frame latency methodology certainly has merit, but they seem to be utterly incompetent in actually analyzing or investigating the results.
3. Re:Give them credit by nanoflower · 2013-01-02 14:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Only one problem with what you suggest is that it is based on bad information. TR made the effort to look at different versions of the drivers and they've tested it on Win7 and Win8. Also only a couple of other sites have done the same level of testing frame rates that TR has been doing and they've found the same issues. Then you add in that AMD has looked into the issue and acknowledged there is a real issue that they need to address. So you are doing a disservice to Tech Report by misstating the situation and ignoring the other sites that have agreed with their findings.
4. Re:Give them credit by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2013-01-02 15:13 · Score: 2
  
  One would think an automated test that looked at timestamped frame production would show the jumpy nature of it.
  
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  (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
5. Re:Give them credit by smash · 2013-01-02 15:21 · Score: 1
  
  Given that they wrote both the software and designed the hardware, this smacks of insufficient testing to me. It's not like they're attempting to make somebody else's hardware work.
  
  --
  I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
6. Re:Give them credit by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-02 16:25 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I don't doubt their findings, merely that the latency spikes are a universal problem, and that they weren't recently introduced in a _beta_ driver (or at the least, a newer one - we know the problem didn't exist back in earlier versions).
  I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this is a result of the chipset/disk controller driver (which they updated in the interval between their older stutter-free results and their new stutter-heavy ones) interacting poorly with the newer graphics drivers, and possibly the older ones as well - disk reads can be a major culprit in stutter, particularly in all these console ports which use texture streaming heavily. It's unlikely, but since disk reads are one of the biggest sources of notable stutter, it merits investigation.
  Or it could be a hyper-threading problem, as hyper-threading is known to cause stutter in some cases, and some, if not all, of the testers who haven't noticed stutter issues despite casting an eye towards smoothness of frame delivery are using processors without hyper-threading. This would be particularly easy to investigate, and they didn't even try.
  Win7/Win8 was a reasonable thing to investigate, but that only serves to highlight their utter irresponsibility in not even commenting on the possibility in the original article, or actually investigating it before publication like any responsible reviewer should when faced with such remarkable results.
  The problem here is _not_ the data, it's the lack of questions they've asked about the wildly different data, and the lack of any sort of scientific rigor applied to a very surprising result.
7. Re:Give them credit by MagusSlurpy · 2013-01-02 18:07 · Score: 1
  
  It's not a new thing. We saw microstutter very commonly on C2Ds paired with 5000-series cards. It's just apparently WORSE now.
  
  --
  My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
8. Re:Give them credit by Cinder6 · 2013-01-02 19:59 · Score: 1
  
  I have 2x R7950s in my machine, and have been reasonably satisfied with them. The microstutter, as people call it, is pretty annoying at times, and had I known it was a particular issue with AMD cards, I would have gone with nVidia. The second issue is damned capacitor squeal, another thing I didn't know would be an issue. I've always run EVGA cards before this rig, and never encountered it (it's a buzz that happens in some game menus and, oddly enough, when there's a lot of white on the screen--meaning lots of the time in Skyrim).
  If AMD can reduce the stutter (which still happens on nVidia cards--just not as often), that will be great. I'm running the current betas and still notice it happening from time to time. Not sure if it's supposed to be fixed in them (there's no mention in the changelog), so I can only hope that will be a future update. It's been a surprisingly long time since the last update came out--over two months now. In the past, they've pretty much been monthly, or so it seemed.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
9. Re:Give them credit by bemymonkey · 2013-01-02 20:07 · Score: 1
  
  Also, having just looked at the videos, I actually find the AMD version to be more visually pleasing - yes, there's a big "jump" at a few spots in the video, but it's in no way regular, while the nVidia jumps (albeit a smaller distance) periodically - roughly once a second. It's like a rhythmic pulsing... really weird.
  And I can't say I've seen this issue on my HD7750 (awesome little card - no PEG connector needed, doesn't break 50C running Starcraft 2 on high, low power consumption)... although that might be because I'm not running the beta driver.
10. Re:Give them credit by jones_supa · 2013-01-03 00:07 · Score: 1
  
  The second issue is damned capacitor squeal
  AFAIK (CMIIW) capacitors cannot make noise, but rather inductors, coils...
I thought.. by mewsenews · 2013-01-02 11:16 · Score: 1

Isn't it also an AMD CPU issue? Or is the problem simply much more pronounced with this particular line of Radeon GPUs?
Or was the CPU problem long corrected?
This article from TechReport in August convinced me not to go AMD for my next gaming PC:
http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-gaming-performance-with-today-cpus
1. Re:I thought.. by Billly+Gates · 2013-01-02 11:33 · Score: 2
  
  They make great dedicated video cards.
  I have noticed this issue on my ATI 5750 dedicated card last year.
  The CPUs are so-so unless you are looking for a cheap multicore system with virtual machines. Intels are better for single tasking and also multitasking if you have a large budget. Unfortunately, this is no market for cheap multicore heavy multitasking users except for a few geeks.
  Thew new beta drivers work for me and it is a big improvement.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
2. Re:I thought.. by Pinhedd · 2013-01-02 11:40 · Score: 1
  
  The 5750 is still on the old VLIW5 architecture, this optimization only affects cards on the GCN architecture
3. Re:I thought.. by Ironhandx · 2013-01-02 11:42 · Score: 1
  
  They're also "good enough" for pretty much any game on the market and they're still cheap... so there is a market for them.
4. Re:I thought.. by Billly+Gates · 2013-01-02 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  Well I noticed it is smooth now in games with the beta last month when I have good FPS so AMD is doing something. I can see it with my own eyes.
  The 5xxx are the last cards supported with the latest drivers so it appears they are backporting the fixes to my card but no earlier ones as they are stuck on 12.3 I believe.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
5. Re:I thought.. by Cinder6 · 2013-01-02 20:01 · Score: 1
  
  I'm using the current betas and haven't noticed any change in microstutter, so far as I can tell (2x R7950s).
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
6. Re:I thought.. by Tynin · 2013-01-03 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  I'm using the current betas and haven't noticed any change in microstutter, so far as I can tell (2x R7950s).
  I think I'm able to duplicate the micro-stuttering in counter strike global offensive. When I'm running BOINC (lowest priority, CPU only) occationally the game will seem to have a very brief, but noticable, halt... and go back to running smooth. Turned off BOINC and it went back to being only smooth. Might be an issue with the process scheduler... or perhaps like the articles suggest, the video card drivers. Either way, I'm all for better drivers :)
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by loufoque · 2013-01-02 11:17 · Score: 2

It's news because it's not a simple optimization. It's fixing something that was fundamentally broken.
Yet another reused abbreviation by tepples · 2013-01-02 11:27 · Score: 1

I thought AMD's last graphics chipset with the name "GCN" was its Flipper GPU in the Nintendo GameCube video game console from 2001, which was for some reason abbreviated GCN.
1. Re:Yet another reused abbreviation by Mr+Z · 2013-01-02 12:51 · Score: 1
  
  Game Cube Network, perhaps? At least that's what GCN means in the context of Mario Kart.
  
  --
  Program Intellivision!
2. Re:Yet another reused abbreviation by dstyle5 · 2013-01-03 03:00 · Score: 2
  
  GCN stands for "GameCube Nintendo" and as far as I recall did not describe any particular hardware component of the console.
I can confirm this by Billly+Gates · 2013-01-02 11:28 · Score: 2

I have the latest beta cataylst drivers from December 3rd and SWTOR is now fluid when I turn. Also video seems better too. Also worth mentioning is this and the last stable released fix the massive security hole by disabling protected mode in Vista/7 with ASLR.
I highly recommend ATI users upgrade their drivers as I found the beta more stable than the stable one.

--
http://saveie6.com/
1. Re:I can confirm this by Cinder6 · 2013-01-02 20:06 · Score: 1
  
  I may have to look more carefully, then--I've not noticed any improvement to Skyrim since installing the betas last week, but that was also the same time I started heavily experimenting with graphics improvement mods.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
Re:Reach for your wallet. by Billly+Gates · 2013-01-02 11:29 · Score: 2

My el cheapo laptop from 2007 has WDDM 1.1 support for Windows 7 accelerated. I was impressed with that as this box was designed for Vista not 7. Also the driver version is from last March so ATI supported it for well over 5 years.

--
http://saveie6.com/
Technology sites give brainddead measurements by PhrostyMcByte · 2013-01-02 11:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

This only went on so long because tech sites use such poor, useless benchmarking methods. Minimum/Average/Maximum FPS, or often just Average/Maximum FPS, are worthless!
A game, or a video card, can average 100fps, but still have that one frame every second that performs some extra I/O and takes 3x longer than usual causing an annoying stutter effect.
A good first step would be to use frame latency percentiles.. i.e. 90% of frames are at least 60 FPS, 95% of frames are at least 50 FPS, 99% of frames are at least 40 FPS.
The next step is to measure spikes themselves -- low framerate sucks, but not nearly as much as a stuttering framerate. A sudden spike from constant 10ms/frame to 50ms/frame and back should be counted as far more detrimental than a smooth transition from constant 10ms to constant 25ms.
1. Re:Technology sites give brainddead measurements by hattig · 2013-01-02 11:42 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  You should be reading the Tech Report GPU reviews then, they have all that stuff included.
2. Re:Technology sites give brainddead measurements by TubeSteak · 2013-01-02 13:17 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This only went on so long because tech sites use such poor, useless benchmarking methods. Minimum/Average/Maximum FPS, or often just Average/Maximum FPS, are worthless!
  Umm... Tech Report has been doing frame latency benchmarking for over a year now.
  And I'm not sure if they were the first ones to come up with the idea, but I know they're not the only reviewers using that benchmark.
  
  --
  [Fuck Beta]
  o0t!
Disappointment for a 1 year GCN issue? Hardly by tyrione · 2013-01-02 11:56 · Score: 1

The overwhelming bulk of GPGPU users are still on two and three year old cards. When they move up they'll either buy the discounted 7000 series once the 8000 series arrives or not. Either way, the GCN issues will be worked out and they won't have ever experienced this issue.
1. Re:Disappointment for a 1 year GCN issue? Hardly by jones_supa · 2013-01-03 00:19 · Score: 1
  
  On GPGPU side there's another problem of "screen lag" which becomes an issue when the GPGPU work slows down the Aero desktop and games.
  So far, there seem not to be ways to prioritize GPU work the same way an OS can give CPU apps different priorities. Maybe the GPU industry will later solve this problem.
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by citizenr · 2013-01-02 11:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

Because this should have been done 9 months ago. Leave it to AMD to once again just drop the ball. At least they're consistent at failing.
Better 9 months for software patch than 5 years for process change and MASSIVE GPU die off Nvidia gave us starting with 8xxx models.

--
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Re:They better fix vertical stripes of death first by Pubstar · 2013-01-02 12:15 · Score: 1

I don't have that issue at all. I also rarely get/had latency issues. This is from both a single 7970 and my new crossfire setup.
Ordered Nvidia by watermark · 2013-01-02 12:18 · Score: 2, Informative

I had a newish card, AMD 4xxx HD, but they force me to use the fgrlx-legacy driver. The fgrlx-legacy drivers don't work with the newest xorg, and the ones that work with the older xorg are missing features essential for steam. AMD scaled down the Linux team recently. I just bought an Nvidia.
1. Re:Ordered Nvidia by Sable+Drakon · 2013-01-02 13:56 · Score: 2
  
  The HD4000 series isn't a newish card by any stretch of the imagination. Newish is the 5000 or 6000 series, and yes, AMD's Linux support has always been pathetic at best.
  
  --
  The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
2. Re:Ordered Nvidia by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-02 14:56 · Score: 1
  
  I only bought nVidia for last decade+. But recently their drivers also suffer from minor issues.
  https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/526044/linux/x-server-1-13-1-deadlocks-randomly-on-geforce-gtx680/
  https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/525640/linux/evga-geforce-gtx-660-ti-problems-/
  Maybe higher performance and better support than competition, but nVidia is not flawless either.
3. Re:Ordered Nvidia by cbhacking · 2013-01-02 22:53 · Score: 2
  
  The Radeon HD 7xxx series cards, such as the 7950 in my PC, are manufactured using a 28nm process. It's actually smaller than what AMD uses for their CPUs, oddly enough (the current CPUs are 32nm). 40nm is a couple generations back.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by Sable+Drakon · 2013-01-02 12:56 · Score: 1

AMD has it's share of defective units rolling off the line. Every hardware maker does, it's an unavoidable fact of the industry.

--
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
What Problem? by All_One_Mind · 2013-01-02 13:00 · Score: 1

I've had a 7970 since early 2012 and have never had this issue on any of the resolutions I commonly use (1920x1080 and 2560x768 eyefinity). Obviously other people have had these issues, but I've personally never experienced them, and I'm sure I'm not the only Radeon owner who was spared from this bug.
1. Re:What Problem? by tlhIngan · 2013-01-02 18:09 · Score: 1
  
  I've had a 7970 since early 2012 and have never had this issue on any of the resolutions I commonly use (1920x1080 and 2560x768 eyefinity). Obviously other people have had these issues, but I've personally never experienced them, and I'm sure I'm not the only Radeon owner who was spared from this bug.
  Well, to detect it means you need to really run a bunch of video cards together on the games you play. It was discovered only because a video card was putting out great numbers, but gameplay seemed "less smooth" than a video card putting out lower numbers.
  Whether or not you can detect this stuttering is dependent on so many factors - it's hard to tell, Maybe you discount it as a framerate drop. Maybe your eyes don't see it. Or your games are fine. Lots of factors. Just like some people feel games written for 30fps run fine, while others want 120+fps and feel the lag if it runs at 60.
  I suspect most people probably won't notice it - it's the only card they see so there's no "smoothness" to compare it too. It's like micro-stuttering on SLI/Crossfire setups - you might see it, you might not. But unless you're playing with a bunch of cards, you probably won't notice unless you upgrade monthly or so and thus have recent enough memory to say "I think this game ran smoother on my old card..."
2. Re:What Problem? by jakobX · 2013-01-03 00:01 · Score: 1
  
  This is a different problem and is common to every crossfire/SLI setup. If you want to fix it you have to play with tools like radeon pro.
Re:Reach for your wallet. by antdude · 2013-01-02 13:03 · Score: 1

Agreed. I had to use v9.4 Catalyst driver for my old ATI Radeon 4870 video card (512 MB; PCIe) because of my very old, updated Windows XP Pro. SP3's clock/time DVI slowing down and rare random hard lock ups when playing videos. :(

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by citizenr · 2013-01-02 13:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

Clearly you are unaware of Nvidia fiasco and following litigation. It wasnt "share of the units". It was Majority of them. Basically finding a working laptop with nv8xxx/9xxx GPU is considered lucky (they ALL die sooner or later, ticking bombs), and there are companies doing nothing else but fixing them.

--
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by Sable+Drakon · 2013-01-02 13:58 · Score: 1

All the more reason to avoid any notebook marketed for gaming, reguardless of the GPU vendor.

--
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
Re:A day late and a dollar short by Pubstar · 2013-01-02 14:00 · Score: 1

Care to elaborate on the dual monitor implementation? I have had no problems running a dual or tipple monitor setup since my HD4460. Hell, I got a 8150FX running in quad core mode and it cleans up in benchmarks against my friends i5 2600k (i do have a slightly higher OC than him).
Re:Why bother? by Pubstar · 2013-01-02 14:03 · Score: 1

XFX support > Any nvidia support, hands down. Then again, I've only bought Black Edition cards from them, so I get priority support.
Re:A day late and a dollar short by epine · 2013-01-02 14:06 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, IT'S NOT PRESCOTT!!!(TM) was the high point in the AMD story arc. They bought themselves some additional time and good will being less pederastic toward binary blobs than the Green Goblin.
Despite this, I've also grown weary of the difference between the vision AMD proclaims and the reality in the channel six months later.
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by eharvill · 2013-01-02 14:36 · Score: 1

Wow, I don't remember anything about this news. Coincidentally I've just started having GPU issues with my 4 year old laptop (Asus) with a 9800M GS last week. I just chalked to up to it being beaten to hell in general (used it for business travel for a few years) and then my kid abusing it and finally putting the nail in the coffin playing a lot of Minecraft during his time off for the holidays. It lasted a lot longer the Dell I had in 2006 with a 7900 GS (I think that was it).I even had the video card replaced once under warranty. Guess that's what I get for going Dell.

--
At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by LordLimecat · 2013-01-02 15:06 · Score: 4, Informative

AMD didnt have a class action lawsuit requiring them to purchase new laptops for end users involved in the claim.
Re:Reach for your wallet. by Nemyst · 2013-01-02 15:32 · Score: 1

I'm not sure what's implied here but AMD's got Windows 8 drivers for their HD2000 series, which was released in 2006. That's, I'd say, a fairly good legacy hardware support timespan.
Re:Why bother? by LingNoi · 2013-01-02 16:25 · Score: 1

It's an unconvincing argument to make, as an nvidia user i've never needed to use support, it just works.
Re:Why bother? by Pubstar · 2013-01-02 16:33 · Score: 1

The only time I've had to use XFX Support was to find out why the free game code for steam wasn't working properly. Got a response in under an hour.
aticlxx by Hsien-Ko · 2013-01-02 17:09 · Score: 1

I always had to terminate that process to gain some input responsiveness back, otherwise the only workaround is to have a multi-core system.
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by MagusSlurpy · 2013-01-02 17:36 · Score: 1

This should have been done three years ago. My 5770 still had these issues up until when I replaced it with a 660 Ti two months ago.

--
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
Bullshit; OP is right. by cbhacking · 2013-01-02 18:15 · Score: 2

"Fundamentally broken" is BS. It would be fundamentally broken if the cards didn't *work* with the old drivers. You *might* even get away with that claim if the cards were unplayably slow, or the spikes were serious enough to make Windows think the driver had stopped responding, or some other such problem. "Benchmarks show that there is a specific performance problem, even though the overall performance is quite acceptable, and the issue was traced to an un-optimized memory manager which nevertheless was working correctly" is not even to "broken" by any reasonable definition, much less "fundamentally" so.

--
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
1. Re:Bullshit; OP is right. by loufoque · 2013-01-02 22:59 · Score: 1
  
  A graphics cards is supposed to give constant bandwidth. If there are spikes, it's a major bug.
2. Re:Bullshit; OP is right. by jakobX · 2013-01-02 23:50 · Score: 1
  
  You will get spikes in every card from every manufacturer. Its not like the workload never changes.Sometimes it just takes longer to render a frame.
3. Re:Bullshit; OP is right. by loufoque · 2013-01-02 23:57 · Score: 2
  
  You know nothing of writing a rendering pipeline.
4. Re:Bullshit; OP is right. by larppaxyz · 2013-01-03 07:18 · Score: 1
  
  Well. Tell us about it then. Because i too think that when workload changes, so does FPS.
Re:I read: AMD updates video driver by X3J11 · 2013-01-02 19:51 · Score: 1

Clearly you are unaware of Nvidia fiasco and following litigation. It wasnt "share of the units". It was Majority of them. Basically finding a working laptop with nv8xxx/9xxx GPU is considered lucky (they ALL die sooner or later, ticking bombs), and there are companies doing nothing else but fixing them.
I have an ASUS F8Sn-B1, from 2008, with a 9500M GS that still works fine. It saw moderate use playing World of Warcraft and Lord of the Rings Online for three years. I've never considered myself lucky, but I have been careful to ensure there was proper airflow. It still works, runs Linux Mint and (occasionally) Windows 7, and is mostly used for web browsing and simple stuff now.
TL;DR mine still works, 5 years later.
Re:Why bother? by jakobX · 2013-01-03 00:06 · Score: 1

AMD cards have better price/performance ratio and drivers have been good for many years. Both companies have occasional problems with drivers but in the end drivers from both companies are good. (only had minor fixable problems with amd and nvidia drivers so far)
Nvidia does have better marketing and more fanboys though.
Re:Why bother? by jakobX · 2013-01-03 00:08 · Score: 1

You do know that 7970 GE is faster than nvidias gtx680. Thats hardly what i would call not competing in the high end. Their CPUs on the other hand need some work :).
Re:Tried an AMD card recently - not impressed. by jakobX · 2013-01-03 00:11 · Score: 1

Sometimes you get a faulty card. It has happened to me a couple of times. Nothing to do with the chip itself. Im running a hd7850 and didnt run into any of the problems you describe.
Re:Reach for your wallet. by jones_supa · 2013-01-03 00:11 · Score: 1

Is an upgrade to Win7 possible?
Re:Why bother? by ctrlshift · 2013-01-03 02:05 · Score: 1

They may be in a slump, but we've seen bigger turnarounds happen. Besides, you really don't want to see the industry where Nvidia is unopposed. Or Intel for that matter.
Re:Reach for your wallet. by antdude · 2013-01-03 02:21 · Score: 1

Yes, but why when XP Pro. SP3 and old softwares work fine? I don't play computer games anymore. I will upgrade when I am forced (e.g, dropped support).

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).