Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Advice For Getting Tech Career Back On Track
First time accepted submitter msamp writes "After the dotcom bubble burst so long ago,when tech jobs were so scarce, I went back to school and finished my PhD in Physics. They lied — there really is no shortage of scientists. Before the downturn I was a product manager for home networking equipment. Since getting the degree I have been program/project manager for small DoD and NASA instrumentation programs. I desperately want back into network equipment product management, but my networking tech skills aren't up to date. I find networking technology absolutely trivial and have been retraining on my own, but hiring managers see the gap and the PhD and run screaming. I'm more than willing to start over in network admin but can't even get considered for that. Suggestions?"
My IT department is full of people with tons of degrees doing various IT tasks.
That way your qualifications won't matter and won't get in the way
...still paddling. I can sympathise.
Good luck, Mike.
Duh?
As much as I hate to say that, hiding a part of your education from resume (like not mentioning your PhD) is a pretty common method of getting employment. Of course with lower salary. They run screaming just because they think that they would need to pay more, because you had PhD. OTOH, I'd say it's more interesting to puruse academic career, where money is low, but at least people apprecieate how educated you really are. And you don't need to hide your PhD. That's just my opinion. And that's why I puruse this career :)
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
If you've been out of the field for awhile, your main priority should be demonstrating relevant experience.
Which means more school (to prove you are current) or volunteering in a relevant role (to prove you're capable).
Otherwise, you start back at the bottom. With your education level, there aren't many good horizontal transfer options.
- Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
Too late. "PhD" = "overqualified". But good luck anyway.
3. Profit!
Some suggestions for 2: Invent cold fusion. Transmute lead into gold. Create "death ray" and get some nation to pay a ransom. What? All those are practical physics and you're a theoretical physicist? Um... Ok... Get an entry level job as a junior web programmer and be sure to let everyone on your team know how much better than them you are because you have a PhD in physics. And insist that they call you "Doctor".
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Start-ups love over-qualified people willing to do meager tasks for nothing.
Not everybody has what it takes to make a successful business. And starting a company because you can't find a job won't help. If you can't find a job, hardly you will find clients.
Manager's tend to have a bachelor's, or maybe a master's at best, and are often scared to death to hire in someone who might be viewed as if they should be managing over them due to educational background. It doesn't matter that the doctorate may not have anything to do with the area of work that is being performed, only that it's a doctorate. It sucks...but that's usually just the way it is. You're probably better off getting a couple of Cisco or networking certs and putting that on your resume instead. Most likely you'll be hired within the month.
There is an article posted about this on slashdot EVERY TWO WEEKS!
So maybe first you should do some research on the subject. But I give you the non-tldr version:
If you want me to hire you, you have to show me that you are worth it. How can you do that? Work on a project (open source/your own/whatever) in your spare time and bring it to the interview. Without anything to show, I'm sorry, no tech job for you.
Probably I'm just clueless about what you mean by 'networking technology'. Would it help your resumé at all, though, to show a couple of years managing the network for, say, a physics department? That's a job for which your current resumé would seem to be perfect, and it would give you ample opportunity to brush up old skills while on the job.
Extending your association with academia might just deepen the stench as far as industry is concerned. But maybe, while managing a department network, you could actually do some buying of network equipment. Physics department scales are probably not really so much larger than home. Then you'd have experience as a customer. That ought to be worth something.
As long as you are talking to a human... tell them that the money for the job is not the issue. You have to be upfront about that in your cover letter to offset the Ph.D. You have to emphasize that you are seriously looking for a non-Ph.D position at non-Ph.D. pay.
If you are dealing with a computer doing the HR, which is all too often today, you may very well need to take the Ph.D. off the resume. Problem is you still have to explain the gap with some relevant experience.
Something similar happened to me. In my case, I was promoted to tech management after having been a lead engineer for years. I didn't realize what I was getting into, hated it, and bailed out after 5 months. Unfortunately, the company I was working for has a one-way track up the hierarchy, and stepping back into doing actual work is just not done, so I had to change jobs. I didn't have a ton of contacts in industry or with former customers yet, so I did the whole cold call/Monster/Dice crap shoot. With my resume showing the management experience, I got very few calls, and those that did interview me had very strong reservations about hiring me for a tech job since they wondered why I wouldn't be looking for a management role.
(Short Answer: If I actually wanted to work solving kindergarteners' problems all day, I'd be a tenured kindergarten teacher and never have to look for work again. :-) )
So anyway, I pulled the management experience off, and left the (reasonably impressive) technical accomplishments intact, and the calls started coming in a little faster. It took a while, but I got a job because of this.
This experience did hammer home how important it is to keep in touch with your former colleagues and customers. Especially if you're an IT services person like me, there's no shortage of companies you can jump to if you have someone there who remembers you and can get you an interview without going through the mess.
Side question: I was thinking of doing the same thing you were -- I have a BS in chemistry and was thinking of a Ph. D. -- is the employment situation for scientists that bad?? Given how crazy the world is now, a permanent job seems like a good idea even if I have to give up some of the salary gains.
I think there's definitely room for well trained, scientific-minded people in IT. It's not all just button pushing, and most of my colleagues over the years have had absolute crap for troubleshooting skills. Now, if only we could start a professional services company around that idea. "Anonymous Coward Consulting Group -- We're not Accenture!" :-)
It says it all. Go in there and own the job from the start. You not only have experience from the past in the field but also have a freaking doctorate in physics. Make light of the doctorate to some extent not to trivialize it but to put the interviewer at ease. It shows that you are willing to put in the hard work needed to get the job done. Do play up the positive side of it for their own PR to customers. "We have techs with up to and including PHDs in out organization." Make this clear but don't be arrogant about it by any means. I have told potential employers that the job was mine and that I was interviewing them as much as they were me. The key is to stick in their minds, in a good way, after you leave. Make sure that every candidate interviewed before or after is being compared to the benchmark you have set. Appear polished but casual and easy to interact with. Make it very clear that you are a team player and have gone that extra mile to get the job done in the past. Make it clear that the only thing that has changed since your last job in the field is that you have gotten better. Make it clear that you are not looking to break the bank in the pay department. Allot of employers see a doctorate and think they are going to have to pay for that. Let them know that it simply shows that you can stay the course, nothing more. Last, remind them that they have the option of terminating you if it doesn't work out but you want the chance for both of you to see.
Not actually evil, but bad-tempered, bureaucratic, officious and callous. In the USA, they're frequently female and quietly but intensely crazy. Forget anything rational when dealing with them. Go around them. Get your resume' to a thinking person with actual skills, common sense and the ability to do arithmetic. That person may be able to slide you around blockage of HR. Get in as a consultant or a temp and make them dependent on you. Threaten to walk if you don't get hired.
As in most of the rest of America now, working through the system doesn't work. Adjust your thinking accordingly.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
With your PhD you have prooven stamina and scientific skills, why join the worker ants when you can step up for team leader and so on ?
If you've out of the game for a while, make sure to stress knowledge of network virtualization in addition to traditional/legacy networking. It's a good time as any to get in because there are relatively few people that are experienced in that aspect. It's not that it's particularly new, but new enough that most enterprises haven't completely adopted it (outside of cloud providers).
Your physics degree and NASA experience could help you, especially if you could supplement it with a business degree from Wharton.
Say - can you do any cool accents?
I suspect it is attitude that is as much the problem as anything. While some employers do worry about over qualification, the tone of your question says "I think I'm the smartest person in the room and I'm going to be a nightmare to manage." Even in tech soft skills are hugely important.
Thinking there was a shortage of physics PhDs shows a lack of listening and research (I say this as a physics faculty), the oversubsciption rate has been huge for ages. So I suspect this attitude (if I'm not misreading the post) has been there for a while.
So you might really consider some classes in people skills—how to interview, how to listen and work in a team. These classes can be found in many community colleges and can be quite helpful (don't dismiss the CC classes, they can be excellent). Then I'd look for an opportunity to show teamwork and make sure you check the attitude at the door when you interview.
Stop thinking that someone else has a job for you. Start creating jobs for someone else. If you're over the age of 30, your community needs you to create jobs, not take them.
You've got an interesting world of experience. Cross-industry experience no less. Start your own company -- don't let the big word fool you, it's meaningless. You'll pay far fewer taxes, you'll be able to get free and very inexpensive employees from schools, co-ops, interns, neighbours, and anyone willing to "start at the bottom".
It needn't be a big company. Just you and a physical assitant is all you need. And you want the physical assistant a) so you can shift your business into a different path to be flexible in five years and b) so you can worry about business admin stuff like client relations and invoicing and c) because someone should cover for you when you're on a beach somewhere enjoying life.
Clients don't tend to ask for credentials -- I own and run a programming company, and no client has ever asked. They ask about skills. You've got 'em.
And since it's your business, you can get just about any client by offering to do the work and not collect any money until the end. It's only a risk if you don't know what you're doing. If you do, you manage to buy a new client with nothing more than delaying payment by a month or two. That's effectively free client acquisition.
Dude, just dive in. Expect to pay $2'000 per year on accountants and lawyers, just to get it off your plate and so your government talks to them instead of you. You don't need insurance unless you're punching holes into walls -- and those premiums aren't a big deal either.
Get decent business cards, and give them to your neighbours. Each of them works in an office building somewhere. And each of their employers needs networking done at some point.
Take small jobs, they turn into big jobs. Take small clients, they turn into big clients. Take clients with bounded projects that have a start and an end. They'll become your best repeat business. Don't spend more than 25% of your typical month on a single client (with many exceptions of course).
Small business helps small business. Talk to other small business owners. Even your competitors. It doesn't hurt my business to help my small-business competitors. It just improves both of our small businesses vs the many many others. If you've got no one to talk to, talk to me.
I'm afraid I have to agree with the consensus here. The big issue is the doctorate. In my experience, very nearly the only people who will accept someone with a Ph.D. behind his / her name is a university. And universities will be wary as well, they will think you expect to go tenure track, and you've already found how limited those slots are. You would probably have better luck with the employment if you dropped the Ph.D. off your resume; that's a bigger problem IMHO than the gap.
The only alternative to the uni IT departments suggested earlier would be consulting; look for firms of consulting engineers, they like to be able to list Ph.D.s on their corporate CVs. I don't recommend going into business for yourself; that takes a vary particular mindset, and it's often a very thin existence.
The narrative you post is extremely hard to follow and makes little sense. Let's try to decipher.
You lost your job when then dot com bubble burst and went back to school. You finished a PhD in Physics. You then found out your were sold a bill of goods about jobs of people with PhDs in Physics and there is some sort of glut.
Then you have been doing some sort of project management for DoD and NASA. Now is where things get really weird.
" I desperately want back into network equipment product management, but my networking tech skills aren't up to date."
Pulling that apart, you are talking about a job more on the business side than the technology side of the business. Technical skills are important in product management, but so is a head for business. That could be one reason that people don't "get' you -- they see that you went back to school and spent time and money on getting a PhD in Physics. You didn't go back to school to get an advanced degree in CS, EE, or a MBA. You went back for Physics and now you are trying to get into product marketing. But things get a little weirder.
"I find networking technology absolutely trivial"
I really, sincerely hope this is a typo. Finding something "trival" has considerable negative connotations to it, and if you say that to a hiring manager, they are going to think you are going to be just biding your time with their "trivial" nonsense product and looking to move onto something more interesting the moment it shows up. It would be better to say that you enjoy certain challenges or explain what you find interesting rather than saying something is "trivial".
And then finally,
"I'm more than willing to start over in network admin"
I don't see that you need to move to this, you need to concentrate and present the skills you have and exercise in program/project management and previous skills to get into some sort of networking gig. But you do need to address some rather good questions a hiring manager would have, specifically:
- Why did you get a doctorate in Physics when you were interested in product management?
- What excites you about networking and product management?
I also highly recommend that all job seekers thoroughly read and use "What Color is Your Parachute?". If nothing else, it will walk you through making a coherent case for yourself of why you want to pursue a given career, and that coherent presentation is going to make hiring managers stop running and start listening more. Right now if I was hiring a job that was responsible for setting the business direction of a networking product, I'd be worried about hiring you because your record shows you actively running from the business development aspects of your career.
Your Physics degree is certainly not worthless and should not be hidden. You can most likely take on complicated problems, decompose them at a high level, aren't afraid of the unknown, etc. Also the fact that you finished your PhD means that you can stick with something, too.
Cause I'm an entrepreneur who is looking for exactly a guy like you!
Don't mention the PhD. and you will do fine. Tried it myself.
With all due respect, as someone who does hiring, I will say that the letters Phd are what would scare me off. For a job that doesn't require it, it indicates that you are desperate for a job and once you find something better, you're gone. Your resume would end up deleted without so much as a phone call. Also, in my experience, people with graduate engineering/science degrees tend to be more academic and less pragmatic. There is such a thing as too smart in the real world sadly.
Google or Apple is where you would probably do well IMHO.
Move to China, Taiwan or Singapore and study Chinese. A PhD is respected a lot more there than in the US. I'm moving back in 6 months.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I have a few suggestions:
1. Have you thought about working in Academic IT? Most colleges like their IT staff 'over-credentialed' and being out-of-date with current technologies isn't as big a deal there either. If I were you, I might even look up a couple of research groups (especially in Physics departments) that have a large computing cluster and see if you get on as a admin there. Alternatively, you might find it politically easier to work as an admin in a research group/lab outside your own field.
2. Have you thought about working for a start-up? Once again, most start-ups are cool with their employees having unconventional backgrounds. I worked with many PhDs (and many PhD dropouts) at various start-ups with degrees the most eclectic fields. Good start-ups like their employees super smart as well. You might have to relocate to a city where the start-up scene is more dense. If you aren't having any luck in the Silicon Valley, you might try Raleigh/Durham area as well.
3. Have you thought about becoming a 'Data Scientist'? While I'm leery of hype, many firms hire Physicists to do that kind of work (although they tend to have more theoretical backgrounds).
I could think of other options, but I don't know enough about your background or training to be specific.
One thing you have to realize is that HR departments in large corporations are pretty bizarre. They don't tend to hire the best person for the job, just the least risky. Smaller companies function differently. Small tech companies or start-ups tend to value good analytical skills. They tend to look at the whole person.
Science careers are extremely tough. Physics is even worse than other fields, with its obsession with youth and large number of graduates. Most physics graduates end up switching fields or working in engineering jobs in research labs. There is a shortage of scientists, but not a shortage of academic research scientists. Who do you think "lied" to you about it? Didn't you bother to look around you in grad school? Count the number of staff vs graduating students?
Trouble is, by switching out of the computer field, you also give the appearance of having burned out on computers. You have skills and experience, but it seems a little much to expect for people to just hand you a career after you made a bunch of unusual career moves.
What's wrong with your current job, though? A DoD and NASA program manager seems like a respectable job for a physics Ph.D.
There seems to be a grass roots movement growing, to explore options for bringing safer, cheaper-to-build "Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors" (a.k.a. LFTRs).
If there are no deal-killer issues with getting Energy from Thorium, I'd guess the number of jobs for Physics PhD's will rise.
If you're new to this, cf: Kirk Sorensen's recent talk at TED.com; for details, search YouTube for "Thorium Remix."
They will take and like your PhD - they don't care too much what its in - and in fact if you really can demonstrate a good basic understanding of CS and the ability to problem solve, they ought to hire you
there are some major players in the financial trading .. I found this one , and I have interviewed with them they are awesome. It is in Houston , texas. This one seems to fit you, and the phd won't scare them away.
http://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH11/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=QUANTLAB&cws=1&rid=261
There are several comments here stating that the PhD means that hiring managers are scared of those. They are - but only if it's a "pure" PhD. I've got a lots of friends in academia who haven't spent a day in the industry. They are scared witless on what happens if their grant money expires (and are without tenure), since industry is such a different world and hiring managers know that they'd be like fish out of water.
However, you seem to be in a very much similar situation as me. I completed my PhD last year. I happen to also have industry experience, including 9 years of working for an ISP, and a CCIE certificate. From my experience, it's a *very* attractive combination - to an emplyer, it means that you know what's going on in the real world and understand customers, and yet you can also look at the bleeding edge of research and maybe have some insight on how things at the horizon might affect your business in a few years - and maybe capitalize on those opportunities ahead of the curve. I know several people with similar backgrounds - in big companies they are usually located somewhere near CTOs office or similar positions, if not directly in R&D departments, but a few of them (myself included) deal with customers and their networks on a daily basis.
That pause in your resume doesn't really matter *if* you can demonstrate that you haven't been in the ivory tower of universities but can actually deal with real-world problems.
Get a certification and talk to any of the major contracting agencies.
No one will balk at your degree. No one will ask about it. With that project management experience and a good network certification you can pick up great paying short or long term jobs and by starting as a contractor you bypass hiring managers. Benefits? At contracting rates you can make enough to buy your own insurance until you turn a contract position into full time. In the meantime you will be picking up all kinds of good experience.
Pork cycle
Seriously. There may have been a shortage, and that may be exactly the reason why there isn't one anymore.
i work with a kid with a physics degree and he makes the same shitty wage i do working the same job with my liberal arts degree but at least my knowledge of history and philosophy will always be relevant to me no matter where life takes me...all his human calculator stuff, not so much.
The big companies: GOOG, MSFT, FB, even twitter can recognize the value of your PhD and give you a job you'll find rewarding. You've clearly got math chops and technical chops so as long as you can communicate well you should be a strong candidate. Look for keywords like researcher, applied researcher, data analyst, decision scientist, technical program manager, etc etc. There are tons of jobs for people like you and you don't have to pigeonhole yourself as pure research (overselling) or network admin (underselling). I spent a long time in academia before finding an industry job I really enjoy that is only tangentially related to my original research expertise.
So long, and thanks for all the Phish
Don't advertise your doctorate, present yout dissertation research as a professional project.
Non-PhD's will be intimidated by your qualifications.
I went back to school and finished my PhD in Physics. They lied -- there really is no shortage of scientists.
There is a shortage of scientist, just not in the fields that are typically pursued within the hallowed halls of academia. Go ahead and do a PhD in High Energy physics, String theory, Cosmology or Relativistic physics and you'll end up like the person in the GP post. If you study, on the other hand, semiconductor physics, friction, or material physics you'll find half a dozen offers for well paid positions in industry research labs in no time.
Go work for Ardra.
With that background, get into the math-heavy end of computing. Get into machine learning, robotics, or quantitative finance. Apply to the big guys: Google, Microsoft, maybe Oracle. They're not afraid of PhDs.
If you want to stay in networking, consider going to Cisco or Blue Coat Systems and working on network traffic management. They need more theory. Cable TV systems for traffic management are a collection of tuning knobs in search of a coherent policy.
"hiring managers see the gap and the PhD and run screaming"
Does this mean you are getting interviews? If so, you need to work on explaining how you can add value to their organization.
I was just in a similar position as you, I just finished my PhD in engineering and had a number of years pre grad school as an engineer. I found it terribly difficult to find a job in industry, as my PhD topic was very theoretical. Actually had a couple of interviews for faculty positions in major universities, but my heart wasn't in that direction. I finally found an awesome job. If you are not getting interviews, I strongly suggest contacting people (managers, directors) in organizations directly, and setting up information type interviews. What worked for me is the "career change" angle, "I've tried the PhD, and now I've got that bug out of my system and I've carefully reevaluated which direction I want to go in, and this is it..." Again, explain how you can add value to their organization. Be confident and don't look desperate. If you make the right connection with someone, they'll overlook what you did in the past.
Good luck
Find that IT job, and look at who is trying to sell to you. The quality jobs are going to be found via networking (the person to person kind) anyway. Not all companies are run the same way- do the legwork- find the companies that already employ people like you... and then you have a place to concentrate your search.
You might think about researching companies in some of the following areas:
- defense
- robotics, autonomous vehicles
- fluid dynamics
- CAD, particularly dynamic simulations
- meteorology
- 3D game engines
- math libraries and engines, e.g. Wolfram, Mathworks
The search should be nationwide in scope (at least) and you should be willing to relocate.
I'm not so sure that is a good idea, either. I was told, albeit a while back, that not including any past jobs and/or education is lying. It might be a lie of omission, but the job apps I've seen, asked for all past positions and education. I'd suggest speaking to a an expert in the field before excluding things.
Hmmm.. I really think it depends on the situation. Let's take a look:
Omitting that you working as a part time drug dealer in college... hiding something
Omitting that you have a respectable Ph.D... your choice
Omitting that you helped manage the importation of underage prostitutes from southeast asia... very specific and also hiding something
Omitting your religion, marital status, sexual preference... your choice
Omitting that your Ph.D. actually came from a sketchy online university... hiding something
It appears omitting something out that could be potentially damaging is wrong. But omitting an achievement or otherwise acceptable detail that isn't the employers business is just fine.
Physics Phd's were very popular hires for High Frequency Trading firms due to their demonstrated problem solving abilities. This has now extended to some of the Fortune 500's in "Big Data" analysis teams. Stop looking at Physics jobs, and start looking at jobs which will benefit from the skill set you have developed to get your degree. You might be surprised.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
The managers that ran screaming...you didn't want them. They are hiring on buzword filled resumes that they actually think mean something. You want a manager/company that wants extremely bright people that can solve problems that do not have buzwords yet. How long did you really network trying to find a job? 6 months a year at least is necessary. Work your connections or linkdin. Tackle this as you would a networking problem.
As much as I hate to say that, hiding a part of your education from resume (like not mentioning your PhD) is a pretty common method of getting employment. Of course with lower salary. They run screaming just because they think that they would need to pay more, because you had PhD.
My perspective as potential employee
I'm a PhD candidate (Computer Engineering) at a top 5 engineering school, and I would say that through the process of looking for full-time employment, the opposite has been happening to me.
Employers see the PhD and their expectations rise exponentially; they expect you to walk on water and work miracles during the interview process even though the position you have applied for only requires a MS. Ironically, an MS graduate would have an easier time getting the same job that I applied to.
Employer perspective
I do understand things from the employers' perspective. Employers are concerned about retention and not just about at the company, but at the position you applied for at the company. They worry that if they pay you below fair market value for PhD salary, that you may jump ship when an opportunity comes along for you to get a PhD salary at some other position and/or some other company. Also, a PhD can signal to the employer that you are very ambitious and really like to learn. Above average ambition and appetite/ability to learn can be a risk factor for them because you may get bored of your current position and jump ship
http://mathworks.com
At places like that if you don't have a PHD in something hard you are a second class citizen. You don't want to be coding python scripts for setting up data centers if you it's differential equations that make you all excited.
If you are looking for work and your resume shows anything over 15 ago (or even sometimes 10 years ago) most HR departments will blackball it. If it is your current job they might look at it but otherwise flush. I have even been told by a well known contract firm that they don't look at anything related to the current position they are trying to fill if it is over 1 1/2 years ago,
Don't listen to all these webdev code-monkeys - all they know is how to crank out the same vanilla information system apps. They are a dime a dozen.
You, on the other hand are in a position of strength - you have a combined skill-set that is greater than the sum of its parts. By combining maths and programming, you can do what most can not: algorithm development - there is strong demand for machine learning, 3D game dev, quantitative finance.
Go out there and seize the day, you've earned it !
I think Google looks primarily for CS PhDs, but manufacturing companies like Intel look for PhDs across multiple sectors. Particularly since Intel does their own manufacturing, they hire EE's, CompE's, and I wouldn't be surprised there were a few Physics guys working on fab tech.
I agree with the parent that Cisco might actually be a good place to look. Manufacturing & transistors involve a lot of physics. Stuff with wireless signals as well
"Omitting your religion, marital status, sexual preference... your choice"
Technically, yes, but it's really not a good idea to volunteer this kind of information, unless it's incidentally implied by something else on your work history or work-related hobbies. So, if you were the IT manager for your local coven or organized monthly flying spaghetti dinners for the homeless, go ahead and say that, but don't simply put "member of the Church of the Sub-Genius" on your resumé. In the US it is illegal for them to ask that, and it is legally touchy for them to know that, because it opens them up to accusations of bias. It can come across as blackmail, saying "If you don't hire me, I'll sue you for illegal discrimination" or trying to curry favor with someone who has the same faith. At the least it shows that you don't understand what's appropriate information in a job application.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
I suspect you're looking locally - relocate. I've even changed countries for some jobs (broaden the mind and learn a language). If you're in the States - try Canada/Australia/the UK. After that, Europe ... plenty of places would be more than happy to get a Ph. D in Physics.
....
Iran is looking, I believe
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
It could be worth a shot to do this. However, now you are now competing with a large pool of very qualified applicants who may have conducted research in the specific areas that the job is in. The odds of landing a position at a big Tech company may be slim with a PhD in a research area outside of the companies interest area.
Although the PhD, your research, and your experience could add significant value to the company, it may be difficult for prospective employers to see/appreciate this value. Like other posters have said, consider starting at the bottom (volunteer, low paying position, startup, self-employed)
Heck, one of the greatest physicist of all time, Albert Einstein, spent 9 years after he graduated trying to get the job that he actually wanted. Four of those years were after he had written four papers in 1905 that would revolutionize physics. During the interim period between graduating and landing a professorship, he took a tutoring job, worked as a patent clerk, and taught classes pro-bono at a local university.
Learn Android programming. While this advice is well-founded in personal experience, it may also be slightly self serving.
I wrote parts of this stuff
Hopefully, you have contact information for at least three recruiters/headhunters. These would be the people that speak HR as it were. The broad question you need to ask them is "Can you help me to tailor my resume to the position I'm looking for?" The specific question would be regarding what to do with the Phd.
"It's one thing to talk about the poetry of machines. Quite another to listen to it for yourself."
I didn't get any attitude from the post.
From the poster:
I'm more than willing to start over...
That doesn't sound like someone with an attitude for me. That sounds like someone who is willing to do what it takes to get back into the field.
As a former networking product manager I wish you luck. The industry is completely different from what it was 10 years ago, especially on the home networking equipment side. There has been significant consolidation and margins have dropped. Home networking equipment is a pure commodity play these days, with most product managers in this segment almost purely MBA/marketing folks. Unless you've got a Rolodex to kill for, the only place I can see you having any luck, is where you can use your PhD as an asset. Cutting edge technologies like LTE-A, 802.11ac/ad, 100Gb optical, or terrabit switching are filled with EE and Physics PhDs. Product Managers in these areas need the technical background because the products are sold on a purely technical basis. However if you've been out of the networking game for so long, its going to be a heavy lift getting up to speed.
The fact of the matter is that if you are not willing to spend your own time keeping up with tech, you do not belong in IT. Period.
Hi, sorry to post anonymously, but I hope you read anyway, too identifiable etc. I've been not quite where you are but close, and I've interviewed a good number of devs after getting situated as a lead dev. (Everything is easy once foot is in door; getting foot in door can be tricky.)
0. Don't sell yourself short. Physics PhDs have the highest avg IQs (yeah I know, just roll with it) of any field I've seen stats for. So don't go into a trivial area of tech just because you need something quick. Choose something like machine learning, compression, cryptography (see Schneier, advanced degree in physics), or if networking and databases then serious engineering like they do at Google (which has a strongly academic bent, by the way). Lots of seemingly simple problem spaces become difficult when they get huge.
1. Treat your first gig as a learning experience. Think about how what you're learning from more experienced people is worth $30K+ or so, how your experience and marks on the resume will pay off big in a few years. Choose based on what you're doing, not so much on pay. Careers are path-dependent. You'll get experience in XYZ, then your next job will be in XYZ, where you'll get paid more and get more experience, so you'll be even more valuable in XYZ, and so on.
2. Construct a career/personal narrative that makes sense. Hiring guys do on one level know that people often drift in life, but it helps to show how it all 'comes together'. Try to figure out how your physics background jives with your physics background, how it's your "special attack". Use it as evidence of persistence, like you're a triathlete. Don't come across as a "I hid from reality in grad school" type--you do hard things because they're there! (or something.) You have pent up energy from being in grad school, you want to do something real and hard and fun. Try raw brain power + quant background appropriate for field X. If relevant, say you're good at mathematical modeling.
3. Look into start-ups and other firms that value raw brain power (e.g., the big four, though you might need a track record first). Hiring guys get so proud of themselves when they grab a 'raw gem'. Try something along the lines of "I spent some years in school so I need to make a huge success now to make up for opportunity cost." If you can't afford to have the start-up not succeed, you'll try harder. All firms, even tech firms, rely on a bit of smoke-and-mirrors window dressing. PhD can be very valuable here! Some guys like to have PhDs around so they can be "as smart as the PhDs" or "lead the PhDs" or what have you. Start-ups gain credibility (to investors haha) by having PhDs (and grads of top CS schools) on board. The main fear about PhDs is that they dilly-dally-doddle, so make sure you come across as focused and directed.
n + 1. Whatever you ultimately do, train for it like it's a competitive sport (like chess, haha). If you're a dev, master your editor, study your dev tools, do practice drills on weekends, identify the best blogs and read them daily, know the corpus (libraries and packages). You're probably smarter so you'll do better eventually, but accept that there's some missing background at first and you just have to sponge for a while.
tl;dr => Go into a field of CS that leverages your physics background (anything highly quantitative or statistical), construct a narrative that makes your PhD a powerful supplementary asset ("special attack" if you will). Sell yourself a little now and you won't have to sell yourself a lot later for less. Smooth sailing after first gig. Career highly path dependent; choose first gig well.
It might've been your heyday, but walking forwards while looking backwards is never a good idea. Clearly you're able to learn, so pick a new subject, anything that takes your fancy, and learn about it. See where it takes you.
On earth did you get a PhD in Physics if all you want to do is sling routers for a living? You have two options:
1. Go be a postdoc and slowly earn back the respect of your fellow physicists.
2. Do the honorable thing
I'll just leave this knife over here. Feel free to make your choice.
After the dotcom bubble burst so long ago,when tech jobs were so scarce, ...
I've been continuously employed since I graduated with a BSCS in 1987. Twice with the same small software development company, Unisys, SAIC - both at the NASA Langley Research Center - The New York Times and Northrop Grumman - all as a system programmer and/or system administrator on just about every kind of system from PC to Cray 2. The one time I unintentionally lost my job, I immediately found a part-time programming job at a small local hosting company and a new full-time, at my previous salary, two months later. I also kept the part-time work for a year. I'm now 50, w/still only a BSCS, debt-free and make enough to save, yes save, $65K/year.
I you can't find a job, then either you have a way-wrong education / skill set, or aren't looking hard enough or willing to start low enough on the food chain and prove yourself. Dot-Com bubble burst excuse my ass. Live modestly, don't buy shit you don't really need, pay off ALL your bills promptly, save all you can and you'll have the resources and flexibility to do whatever you want w/o worry. No one can have leverage on you if you don't need anything.
I find networking technology absolutely trivial and have been retraining on my own, but hiring managers see the gap and the PhD and run screaming. I'm more than willing to start over in network admin but can't even get considered for that. Suggestions?"
Downplay the PhD as simply your willingness to learn new things in depth. Take my advise on living modestly and offer to start with a lower salary with the understanding that you'll get bumped after proving yourself.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Over the last 30 or so years, those of us with secure positions in the industry have observed the following pattern. A boom starts to build, and suddenly our industry is crowded by a bunch of riff raff, people who aren't really computer people, but came for the promise of good pay and a stable career. They don't contribute much, and are really more like semi-beneficial parasites to the industry. As the bubble grows, we get more and more of this, until the bubble pops. Then the riff raff are the first to go.
Basically, by losing your job, and not doing anything to get another one, you have labeled yourself as riff raff. You will have to wait for the next boom to get a job.
Not sure where do you actually live, but what you are describing is simply not true here in Silicon Valley. The industry is very hot and there is a lot of competition for talent. The more, the better, so your education and experience is far from a problem. And I'm not only talking start-ups, but even larger companies.
Now with the appearance of SDN (Software Defined Networking), all your networking skills will become valuable again. It's a new market with the traditional players will fight with the newcomers and innovators.
I know because I'm exactly in that business and I can't hire fast enough.
None of the statements here that I have read make any logical sense at all. How in the world is a PhD a liability? Americans are a nation of irrational, possibly insane morons. Bite the bullet and leave the country for a more rational place (check out Germany although their hiring also turned somewhat insane for a while).
on the next episode of Big Bang Theory..
I finished my Ph.D as an experimental physicist 20 years ago, and got a post-doc. And I managed to get a job in IT after that. A few comments on your story: (1) Physics to network technology is not a natural jump. Your resume should be highlighting all the relevant experience you gathered while doing your PhD. I did a lot of heavy coding for data analysis, big data crunching, and unix system administration on cutting edge hardware. My other option besides the Sales Engineer job I ended up taking was translating particle transport code from Fortran to C++. When I was looking for a tech job, that was the experience I emphasized, not the actual physics part. (2) As others have mentioned, you need to be talking to small shops, you're more likely to talk directly to the hiring manager, rather than a HR person. (3) As many have already said, eat some humble pie. You very obviously didn't do your research before deciding to pursue a PhD in Physics. And you haven't been pursuing the obvious route of getting some network certifications. I mean, come on, what evidence are you providing potential employers that your networking knowledge is at all current, or even still exists? And yes, the Ph,D. hurts, the problem is that they think you will want to be paid commensurate with a Ph.D. with your full years of working experience, rather than paid as a network engineer with years of experience up to when you left the field. They are worried you will get bored, consider the work beneath you, and you will either leave or become a problem employee. (5) Take some contracting work. The bar is lower, because if you don't work out they can just end the contract. And that will pad out your resume with the relevant experience. The only time my Ph.D. was a liability was in getting my first job. You need to establish a job history post-Ph.D. that shows the sort of work you are willing to do for a reasonable amount of pay, for a reasonable length of time. I kept my first technology job for five years. Then, the Ph.D. was never again an issue, it was only an asset. You might need to do contract work for a year or two to establish a similar sort of track record.
Tell that to me in an interview and I'll have a hard time not laughing at you.
Most places I've worked would instantly toss resumes that explicitly mentioned anything like that - DOB, marital status, religion, even a photo.
Having a policy of rejecting anyone who volunteers information that could be used as grounds for a discrimination claim is apparently the safest approach.
Ok, you have a PHD in physics. If the company can't see your value then they are not a good fit.
I have a Bachelors in Physics, and was able to get into software engineering 16 years ago. The physics training has been invaluable to my software career. Scientist think a certain way, and that "way" is an asset to have on an engineering team.
If these companies can't see that they are idiots.
Their major problem is that job grades are related to education - so a PhD means that you bosses can still give you pay raises in the future, while you should apply to get a lower salary for now. Physics is largely the mapping of rules and results from the constructed mathematical worlds into the real world - with the exception that most Noble Laureate Physicists say "Screw the Real World, I like this mathematical one better". Work the Physics degree into Network Administration, and use that as a spiel when applying, This also will work to convince yourself that you have a unique value to add to this job.
On the other hand, if you become a Network Admin and design a screwed up network because you set up an RF feed and forget that the ventilation grid in a prefab space is a waveguide, or don't check that the cheap Chinese Routers that you buy actually have different MAC addresses I will be merciless - so make sure you are a good network admin, unlike the ex-Marine I had a screaming match with.
Get PMP from the PMI and you can start contracting yourself out at $125/hr minimum.
There's always work.
Don't sell yourself short, the PhD in Physics gives you a huge advantage as a quant/analytics developer. Look into companies doing Software Defined Networking or analytics software specifically aimed at network monitor & control. If you're good with statistics and data analysis (which Im sure you are), then you ought to have no problem.
Congratulations! Phds take a lot of work and not everyone has the stamina to complete them.
I have two perspectives on this. First as a former employer, I always recruited PhDs whenever I could. I never once regretted it. Then again, we were one of the the best companies in our field. I think the two are related. Don't assume that good companies will turn you down. It is only those middle managers who are not up to the job that will be intimidated by it. They tend not to be good companies.
Second, as a Phd graduate myself. If you have done anything commercially relevent (which I did), there is nothing wrong with trying to set up your own company. The more mature you are the better. My experience is that many of the companies that I applied for after I finished my PhD employed people who were far less qualified than I was, and knew far less about where they should be leading their company. A lot of companies these days are run by accountants, who have no interest in R&D.
If you can set up your own company go for it. From what I see, most engineers are not given enough time to innovate. You (if you were wise) gained skills that have some commercial relevence, that you can leverage.
Don't listen to these negative people!
With a Ph.D. you too can sell scrum and agile to vapid management...
Your credentials are impressive and if you take advantage of free business training available through SCORE you could make something happen. I've finally had it with changing jobs every three years to get ahead. I signed up for a SCORE mentoring session and spoke with a mentor who had some unbelievably great ideas. He even related a story about a 70 year old woman who was laid off from her medical billing job only to become businesswoman of the year 8 months later. To me, that was inspirational. So, I'm in the process of starting a managed IT services firm to specialize in 25-75 user businesses. I have about 7,500.00 in startup capital and until I'm fully ready to incorporate, I'll continue in my present job. I'm only maybe three weeks into the planning and the process is fun and exciting. It is also amazing what tools there are out there on the internet to help you start a business. In some ways it is even easier than it ever was.
You either work at a job willing to train you, in which the Ph.D looks like a silly albatross, or you go get up to date. If you do the latter, people might assume you are up to date because of the Ph'D. But to say "I have a Ph'D and I am not up to date" sounds vaguely like "I've fallen and I can't get up"
Gently reply
http://xkcd.com/793/
large companies suffer from HR group think. A small company will be glad to have you. Start there.
Basically, every single person you know who might be able to get you a foot in the door in a tech job needs to be on your speed dial. Did you make any friends at school? Maybe you had some science classes with people going for Computer Science type degrees. Don't be ashamed to hit up you relatives, either.
A wise philosopher once said related to a particular job that it is a, "valuable thing, you just don't give it away for nothing." This is why the best people to ask are people who owe you favors, or people who you can owe a favor. Getting a job is part of the favor economy.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Try applying at one of the major physics labs such as Argonne and Fermi Lab in Illinois, SLAC and LBL in California, Brookhaven and Wilson labs in New York, Los Alamos National Lab in New Mexico, etc. They like their gearheads to have degrees in physics so they understand what they are supporting. My wife has a PhD in particle physics, yet does software engineering at FermiLab.
Screw the networking stuff, go write physics code for a 3D game company.
So ok, you've been out of the industry for a while. Let me bring you up to speed. Some of the most lucrative jobs are going to people who can code (especially low level networking code, even in old school languages like C) and know math. The big data boom is one thing. Wall Street is the other.
If you can code, you have a PhD in Physics, and you're on less than 200k per year. You haven't been looking too hard:
http://jobs.phds.org/physics-jobs/quantitative-finance
organized monthly flying spaghetti dinners for the homeless
Is that a fancy way of saying you threw food at homeless people?
Just tell them you have a degree and don't highlight your PHD or education. They will find out about it if they absolutely care but if they don't they wont.
If you want to get a job in Salt Lake City, you don't tell them your religion.
You DO tell them that you like to travel and you spent 2 years somewhere. (doesn't matter where, just pick a good needy spot.)
I too tried to get back into computing / admin field after a lapse. The only thing HR or hiring managers give a shit about are seeing certifications on your resume / CV. anything else they don't even look at. Sadly I gave up and went with another field that was more friendly.
Put that degree to work for you! You obviously have an interest in the physics of what's going on, now apply that to the technology you seem to have a passion for and see if you can contribute in the hands on stuff rather than the managerial stuff. Get your chops back in the trenches and work back into a Product Manager position if you desire, but I don't think there's a lack of networking companies that could use good Ph.D.s. Heck, there may be good post-doc positions in this area you might love that could lead to other work on the side or another career. You must still have contacts at the university you matriculated through, and having been a Ph.D. student you must be familiar with The Chronicle for Higher Education and the numerous job openings it contains. Post-docs with experience are usually more welcome, too. Don't keep fishing in the same pond if you're not getting any bites.
...such as "France".