Slashdot Mirror
Google Gives Up Fight Against Chinese Censorship
judgecorp writes "Google has abandoned its policy of warning Chinese users against keywords that trigger censorship. The search giant had added a warning that advised Chinese users not to use search terms that could cause the Chinese authorities to shut off their access to Google, but has now abandoned these warnings. While Google says they were ineffectual, free speech campaigners have expressed disappointment."
Now, if you want to complain about somebody, complain about the People's Republic of China. It's THEIR laws and policies which make this a threat to free speech, not Google's capitulation to the lawful government of China.
Google was warning people before they searched. Who reads the fine-print before starting these days.
What they could do, is on any search that used a keyword, make the warning the first result.
Example :Search Tuna:
1) Tuna is a trigger search word used by China to start investigations into users.
>
2) Tuna are a great food to eat
Google will be quietly allowed back into China. The timing of this news will coincide with some other big event, such as a new iPad release.
Screw it, go full-on SSL.
Anyone caught SSL tampering will result in their SSL root certs being pulled. China can't afford to pay that cost so they'll have to back down or block Google on their own and so take the blame.
Google isn't acclimating to their culture, I think they just realized that triggering the ire of the Chinese government is much less profitable than the alternative.
Would you say it isn't anyone's job bring censorship to light, and that it's up to Americans individually to understand, and to obey or rebel as he/she sees fit? I'm quite certain in that case you'd disagree, and you'd likely counter-argue that the individual's attempt to enlighten him/herself without help is a futile act in the presence of a state which has so much control on media and information. If that could be true of the US, why would that not be even more so of China?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
While none of this is exactly new to people who've studied moral philosophy, Sam Harris can present this very well in his 23 minute TED talk "Science can answer moral questions". What he is saying is that most (he simplifies to "all" but anyways) schools of thought in ethics can be traced back to human happiness and flourishing (even if you believe in god and think that the happiness occurs in afterlife). Questions of human happiness are factual questions that we have studied for a long time (psychology, sociology, etc.). While we might not be able to agree on what are the peaks of happiness or how to get there, we certainly can say that some states of being are not the right answer... So we should not pretend that all cultures should be respected equally in that regard.
...they do so to support a f*cking mega corporation that would sh*ts on them at a moments notice, for chance of extracting a few extra dollars from the customers. Google withdrew *alone* from China in a response to "evil"...What did they do when "Human Rights Watch praised the decision and urged other firms to follow suit in challenging censorship...on yeah right I remember *nothing*...Lets call them Microsoft who at the time by the "the Congressional-Executive Commission on China ...sharply criticized Microsoft for continuing to be complicit with China's censorship laws"...what about Apple??. Acting Alone Googles strategy was weak/stupid.
Make 'em your BUSINESS MODEL.
Google, selling you out since 2003.
Rainey Reitman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation said that technically, it is indeed all legal, but she emphasized that people don't really understand how their random thoughts, disclosures or opinions on social media may be exploited.
"I think people don't realize when they sign up for these sites that the government is going to be routinely monitoring and sifting through this data," she said.
"If Coca-Cola is reading all my tweets," Dan Zarrella points out, "it's not as scary as if the DOD is reading all my tweets, right?"
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20121113/DEFREG02/311130003/Unwitting-Sensors-How-DoD-Exploiting-Social-Media
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
No matter how right your cause is there comes a time when you have to face the fact youre not making a difference and just wasting your time, when that time comes there is nothing wrong with giving up. Sometimes trying to do the right thing is like punching a 9 foot thick galvenized steele wall, sure you may mean well but all your going to do is waste your time.
Besides, its not googles job to warn anyone of anything. They tried, it didnt work so they gave up. The fact they even tried, let alone tried as long as they did is a testament of their nobility in trying to help others for no other reason than try to help them.
What did they do when
Who is they? the same people both times?
what about
We already knew they were evil. Google claimed not to be. They lied.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
there are plenty of cultural differences that are ok
but violating people's basic rights can not be justified with references to culture
this applies to problems in the west too, i'm not singling out china
you can't say chinese people are happy being slaves, so let them be, it's just culture. or muslim women are happy being slaves, so let them be, it's just culture. or poor people in western nations leaning towards social darwinism as plutocrats warp the politics are happy being slaves, so let them be, it's just culture
bullshit
NO ONE is happy being a slave. culture is no excuse
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
what does Goodwin the thread mean?
Don't be evil != Be good.
The meager flaccid goal of avoiding evil results in evil. The goal needs to be to do good... even then there is no assurance of success, but at least there is not assurance of failure.
My message for the free speech campaigners here is that if you don't like the laws in china, leave.
As per subject.
AMERICAN constitution says it is, but that isn't China and it isn't The One True Law.
If you think your creator gave you those rights, please ask him to step forward and confirm.
Look, if the Chinese people are not going to fight for human rights and removal of censorship then why should some American company do so?
I think everyone outside of China believe they need to fight for Chinese rights but obviously the Chinese living in China are largely accepting of the state of their rights, those that don't go to another country.
I can't believe that in a country with over 1 billion people the government would be able to suppress a revolution if the population demanded better human rights. Ergo obviously the population in China are largely content with the rights they have.
People outside of China need to start minding their own business. Also business outside of China need to start realizing they are never going to win in that market, so just stop trying.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Wow, you seem to have confused Google with a comic book superhero. It's a business. To do anything at all in the world, it first has to stay in business. Second, to continue to do anything, it has to make a profit. It isn't a charitable organization, it isn't the U.N. with power over governments of the world. It isn't a superhero.
It's just a business. You seem to believe it's a superhero with vast powers to fight whole governments for Truth, Justice and the American Way.
I can't believe people who assign vast, unreal powers and responsibilities on Google -- and then viciously attack Google when it doesn't live up to THEIR fantasies.
It's just a business. Expect it to have only the powers and responsibilities of a business. Superheroes exist only in the comics.
Of all the FOB Chinese I talk to, very few even care about this issue. Mostly they're not even aware of it, and if they are, they don't see it as anything worth worrying about. From a Western individualist point of view, it's sad to see people who don't care about oppression, so long as it's done in the name of unity. But then, that's us and that's them. Maybe they have a point in going for national unity and peace over individual rights. What do I know.
If a Chinese user is unable to search Google for being locked up then Google only really loses a few (3) bucks at most, but the cost to continue warning users, etc...that's probably like four (4) bucks. So it boils down to $$$ again.
apart from China, they changed the safe search options on image search (without telling anyone); and GoogPlay is linking to cleaned-up versions of music files making it a little harder for us to get our porn and **explicit** hiphop.
bitchez.
...but that doesn't mean you can't passively advocate it.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
...Former governor Richardson, Google's Schmidt arrive in North Korea
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/07/us-korea-north-richardson-idUSBRE90600A20130107
I suspect a correlation between Google's move in China and Schmidt's "private, humanitarian" visit to NK. Methinks the almighty dollar may be taking precedence over principle.
I hate to say this but anyone who runs something as vast, large, and influencial as Google has a responsability to look after the interests of their fellow man and the technologies they rely on. Otherwise they are directly contributing to the dystopian future we are headed towards.
If google doesn't do something about the internet, it will loose potential profit. It will be harming it self as well.
It takes allot of bravery for me to come here and give my trolly rant knowing I will be pissing off allot of people. But thats the same damn thing I expect the LEADERS of our worlds biggest and most influencial institutions to be doing. Corporation, UN, School, University, Sciencists at JPL, anybody who is the gatekeeper to this much power or information, and knowledge.
I can't cite some old Mark Twain, or Goerge Washington, or Jefferson, or any other supposed hero of freedom and liberty and commerce and all that. But I'm sure I'm not the first ignorant peasent to wake up and go... Why the fuck are we doing this to eachother for the sake of personal individual survival, or group survival.
Martin Luther King sure as hell didn't worry that damn much about his own skin, he knew he would piss allot of people off with his rants.
And to be clear, google has the power to provide unfiltered results and let the government figure out a way to block things, not cater to them. That is all I expect, its trivial to revert their code back to what it was.
There is no reason to assume that Google isn't "providing unfiltered results". I see no evidence they have ever filtered results for China. In fact, as I recall, that's why they moved their servers out of China.
Why are you claiming they are censoring results? What TFA is about is Google decided to stop warning Chinese users that specific key words would trigger Chinese government censoring (and possibly worse). Shall we assume that Google found the warning was useless?
But I see no evidence that Google is doing any censoring or filtering.
I see no problem with wanting businesses to work to help mankind in any way they they are able. The operative word is "able". There are limits to what a single company, no matter how large, can do.
Companies cannot break the law. This isn't like an individual who might break the law in protest. Companies cannot operate like that for quite a number of reasons -- consult a corporate lawyer for details.
Google had to completely leave China because, while they disagreed with China's censorship requirements, they could not refuse to comply while still being a Chinese company.
Until you know what are the limitations and restraints for a company in a specific situation, it seems a bit presumptuous to criticize a company for "not doing enough."
http://www.webpronews.com/google-preventing-u-s-users-from-disabling-safesearch-2012-12
http://searchengineland.com/google-updates-safesearch-filter-in-image-search-142330
Google is actively participating in the fragmentation of the global web. Their search is not fair and equal across all audiences. Its porn now. But mark my words it will be politics soon, if there isnt some subtle chilling effect already.
What happens when only governments with clones of googles accurate unfiltered search database are the only ones with access to all information. Do we start segregating people because of their views on what should and shouldnt be on the net? How do people know that its ok to do it in ways other then missionary if they can't find out all the wonderful ways we can literally screw eachother without jumping through hoops. Its an enlightening process that fundementalists need not be protected from in my opinion.
Anyway the Big point I'm trying to get at is people in sweeden who automaticly route to google.se get more accurate results then the average american who doesnt bother to check what their browser is doing. You cant get the same results through America's portal even if you set your setting to "not filter" its not the same. Its illusion. And google is helping to make the illusion that when you search for boobs on the net, thats what you get even if you set your filter low. When its not.
By creating this double standard Google is further seperating the elite from the non-elite. They are literally making people dumb by being authoritarian and permiting information to be managed in a deceptive way like this. Right now its just "sexual" content more or less but I don't think anyone with the attitude that its ok to go this far is trustworthy.
I'm seriously wondering what I will be able to google in the next 10 years. What search engine can I go to. I've tried things like Ixquick etc... I doubt they'll have that much impact though. They scrape from google, but do they scrape from unfiltered results or what.
In the mean time I'm going to be fuming mad about the general impact on peoples understanding of what is out there. People aught to be able to find out about everything and shouldnt have to circumvent google or anything else. Shit should not be this obfuscated and Orwellian.
And seriously I know you didn't have a friendly agreeing post to give back to me, but I appreciate your dialog that you even took the time to respond and tell me why you thought I was wrong.
I agree they have no choice in China. I think in that case the best they could do would provide secure services people in China could access through torproject or VPNs. And to close shop as a Chinese company doesnt mean they have to refuse that market.
My rant was I think flawed as it is tried to point out though that China is not the only place this is starting to happen. And google seems ok with by literally implementing features into their own site.
Regardless on which side of the censorship debate you are,
it's one thing to censor results but to inform you that it has happened but it's another to silently remove results. It's so irritating to spend hours searching for something only later to relise that it's been censored.
Isn't there any decency to people these days? If a thread or reply on a forum gets deleted isn't it only fair to inform other people that it has happened?
A blog I run for the wealth
In general, I do not disagree with your points.
What makes Google valuable is that it does a pretty good job of presenting what it thinks best fulfills your request. That has been and continues to be what makes Google better than what came before. I remember the days of almost completely unfiltered results from searches and the returned data was almost completely useless.
But, that being said, that is also Google's potentially biggest danger. When their "guesses" do not align with what people actually want, or when their "guesses" end up being de facto censorship, then it becomes a liability. It is a very, very fuzzy line. Some people get super upset if porn shows up. Some people get super upset when it doesn't. I get upset when I can't state my personal preference.
But that's what's so good about the Internet. Where a need exists that isn't met, someone will come up with a solution. If Google fails, someone else will succeed.
This I agree with completely, and I see google teatering. And with headlines like "Gives up". I know that might not even be google speaking. But to tell people you've given up is horrible =)
I sorta feel like as an American they've given up on us to. But I hope, we, or google, or someone else finds out a better way to implement filtering. I am all for filtering and I totally agree, when I search for something I don't want 1000 commercial porn sites blocking me from finding a real answer. But that power should always be placed in our hands. Not hidden from us.
I have no idea which one, but somekind of agreement must have been reached. I'm sure that Google ceeded something and the Chinese also. We shall see. Something to do with the change of leadership in China?
Google's trip North Korea may have some relation tho this.
We shall see...
yes, it sounds like giving up.
i am disappoint?
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
Google is more evil than Microsoft ever was.
First, do no evil. After a while, though, whatever...
Take your time posting. I am reading this post and cannot follow. Maybe "the choir" catches all that you are saying, but I'll bet its nearly all lost on the rest of us.
That was Zen, this is Tao