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Does All of Science Really Move In 'Paradigm Shifts'?

ATKeiper writes "Thomas Kuhn's landmark book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions just turned fifty years old. In that book, Kuhn coined the expression 'paradigm shift' to describe revolutionary changes in scientific fields — such as the replacement of the geocentric understanding of the universe with the heliocentric model of the solar system. The book was hotly debated for claiming that different scientific paradigms were 'incommensurable,' which implied (for example) that Newton was no more right about gravity than Aristotle. A new essay in The New Atlantis revisits the controversy and asks whether the fact that Kuhn based his argument almost exclusively on physics means that it does not apply as well to major developments in biology or, for that matter, to the social sciences."

57 of 265 comments (clear)

  1. I didn't think so,but when by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny

    my wheel barrow broke I just said, "Dang it!", went to the shed and invented an anti-gravity lift to move the manure around the back lot.

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    1. Re:I didn't think so,but when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      my wheel barrow broke I just said, "Dang it!", went to the shed and invented an anti-gravity lift to move the manure around the back lot.

      Same situation, except I used a hovercraft. It worked well until the shit hit the fan.

    2. Re:I didn't think so,but when by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, that's better than my challenge: My hovercraft is full of eels.

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    3. Re:I didn't think so,but when by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've had it with these motherfucking eels on this motherfucking hovercraft!

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    4. Re:I didn't think so,but when by jd2112 · · Score: 2

      Well, that's better than my challenge: My hovercraft is full of eels.

      Cool idea! A hovercraft powered by electric eels. PETA won't like it but screw them!

      --
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    5. Re:I didn't think so,but when by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2
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  2. Kuhn Paradigms by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am suspicious that Kuhn's paradigm shift were valid only during the formative years of science (specifically physics). The shifts - if they truly exist - have tended to become smaller asymptotically as science progresses.

    1. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by SirGarlon · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't know -- general relativity was a big paradigm shift, and I would say that occurred well after the formative years of science (which I would put in the 16th or 17th century).

      Perhaps the reason it looks like paradigm shifts don't happen any more is that they only come along every hundred years or so.

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    2. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The Gods decreed several thousand years ago that no man, woman, or child should ever do such a thing

      That is, assuming spherical men, women, and children in a vacuum.

    3. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Internet was a paradigm shift.

      But they are very, very rare. Most people see these shifts becasue they are unaware of the steps it took to get there.

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    4. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But even Relativity had its antecedents; in particular Lorentz. Frankly I don't think Kuhn was right at all. Paradigm shifts are, if you really look at them, pretty illusory, and part of the way we treat most history.

      It's like declaring 476 a watershed moment in European history, when in fact, the Roman decline had been going on for decades, and there wasn't much left of the Western Empire by the time Romulus Augustulus was locked away in Castellum Lucullanum.

      We mark time that way, we look for what we can describe as the Big Date or the Big Theory or the Big Innovation, and then shove everything that led up to that event to one side.

      As to SR and GR themselves, while some might describe them as paradigm shifts, modern physicists will continue to point out that while they revolutionized the way we look at the universe, they remain Classical theories, and that the real paradigm shift, if it can be called that, was Einstein's work on the photoelectric effect, which is one of the predecessors of quantum mechanics. But even with QM, there was a lot of groundwork laid before the theory itself was developed, so I have a problem with the claims that that was a paradigm shift.

      The list goes on and on. Did Darwin's theory of Natural Selection represent a paradigm shift? In some respects, yes, but at the same time you have to give due credit to some of those who came before him, in particular Linnaeus, who recognized the notion of phylogenetic relationships to some degree. Most certainly Linnaeus's work deeply informed Darwin as he worked on Natural Selection. But even Linnaeus has his antecedents, dating back to Classical Greece.

      And on and on it goes.

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    5. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know -- general relativity was a big paradigm shift

      General relativity was a far smaller shift than Newtonian Mechanics. Newton revolutionized science and engineering, and made the industrial revolution possible. General relativity, on the other hand, is routinely ignored by 99.99% of working engineers. If you design a plane and ignore Newton, you will never get off the ground. If you ignore Einstein, you will land a few nanometers further than you expected.

    6. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by icebike · · Score: 2

      I am suspicious that Kuhn's paradigm shift were valid only during the formative years of science (specifically physics). The shifts - if they truly exist - have tended to become smaller asymptotically as science progresses.

      I'm not so sure that shifts become smaller.
      Clearly there are a lot of small "fill in the gap" types of discoveries in any field.
      However, these smaller advancements of understanding were not the shifts that Kuhn was addressing.

      These often give an appearance of being less to learn as your knowledge of a subject becomes more complete, until the world is blind-sided by some major discovery. Its always dangerous to assume there is complete knowledge of any field of Science

      Discovery of DNA was an utterly world changing event, yet it appeared rather recently. It totally changed the fields of Biology, Genetics, Disease Control, Criminology, and half a dozen other fields. The concept of Solar Wind was utterly rejected for years until several spacecraft had measured it.

      I'm sure one could name similar and on-going works in a large variety of fields. Some are probably being derided as utter folly today, but will be accepted as obvious in years to come.

      Scientist, if not science itself, still is burdened with an unfortunate amount of Hubris.

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    7. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by lee1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're convolving science with engineering. GR is a radical and fundamental conceptual breakthrough of a kind that only occurs every few hundred years at most. Easily on a par with Newton's system of the world. This would be true even if it had no engineering consequences whatsoever; but, in fact, the GPS depends upon it.

    8. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by L1mewater · · Score: 2

      I don't think that the point of Kuhn and Polanyi's work was that these paradigm shifts are attributable to a single event or single person. The point is that they represent a substantial departure from/replace the working models used before them. If I recall correctly, a big part of the idea, as well, is that these for these revolutions to happen, the older generation of scientists have to die off. This process will necessarily take a fair amount of time.

    9. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, the Internet is not a paradigm shift. It was a dramatic shift in worldview, but it did not directly cause people to re-evaluate how the world works. All of that work was done by telephones, trains, traditional mail, and radio.

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    10. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by Sique · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes and no. According to Thomas S. Kuhn, Einstein's death marks the time when QM was finally accepted by most physicists, while Albert Einstein until his death was fully opposed to QM - famously quoted (and often misunderstood) as "God doesn't play dice". QM had to have been developped before as a paradigm, but only when all classical physicists did no longer work in Physics (which was more drastically described by Th.S.Kuhn as "had died out"), it became an accepted practice in Physics to view the world through QM's glasses. The first generally accepted QM theory was Quantumelectrodynamics, and when this one gave convincing results, physicists tried to take this as a template for other QM theories (so called Gauge Theories), and we got QCD, an extension of QED to the electroweak interaction (SWT), and finally the Standard Model of Particle Physics (which just recently triumphed with correctly predicting the Higgs boson).

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    11. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by narcc · · Score: 2

      It was a dramatic shift in worldview, but it did not directly cause people to re-evaluate how the world works

      What?

    12. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      It's like declaring 476 a watershed moment in European history, when in fact, the Roman decline had been going on for decades, and there wasn't much left of the Western Empire by the time Romulus Augustulus was locked away in Castellum Lucullanum.

      And the barbarians who replaced the Roman ruling elite were hell-bent on preserving whatever they could from the Roman culture and live. Hell, that was the reason why they invaded it in the first place, to have their own bite of the Roman prosperity. There was more continuity than people had traditionally thought.

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    13. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

      As to SR and GR themselves, while some might describe them as paradigm shifts, modern physicists will continue to point out that while they revolutionized the way we look at the universe, they remain Classical theories, and that the real paradigm shift, if it can be called that, was ... quantum mechanics.

      In what way is quantum mechanics any more, or less, of a paradigm shift than relativity? QM is a correction to classical physics for small systems and relativity is a correction to classical physics for high energy systems. I know philosophers get all excited about QM because the concepts are harder to grasp than relativity but that does not make it any more, or less, important. As for "modern physicists" I am one and we use both QM and SR in one consistent theory - both are equally essential to particle physics.

    14. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      Except that paradigm shifts aren't about how much the results change, they're about how much the model changes. Relativity decouples time, equates energy and mass, and provides a theoretical mechanism for gravitation. It changed the way scientists thought about the unanswered problems in physics. You could no longer put forth serious theories about those unanswered questions using the assumptions of Newtonian physics without being laughed out of the room. And all the old theories had to be revisited and verified against the new assumptions of relativity.

      And hopefully, someday, hopefully, the same thing will happen to relativity when they unite relativity with quantum mechanics. See, that's the other part. People hear paradigm shift and they think it's has to be something that comes out of no where, like it's not a paradigm shift if it's been being researched for 20 years and finally the evidence bears it out. It still can be a shift if it replaces the basic assumptions of the theories that it is replacing.

    15. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dictionary troll powers, activate!

      One's perspective on the world involves more than a metaphysical understanding of how it functions. It also involves how those functional elements are structured and relate to one another. By developing a ubiquitous communications medium, we were able to communicate with each other rapidly and rearrange social structures, (and that affected how we perceived the world, often oversimplified to "making it smaller") but nothing about our understanding of any mechanisms changed. It was just a convenience.

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    16. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      It doesn't even apply to Darwin. Darwin quickly had many admirers among his fellow scientists once Origins was published. Yes, he had his critics, but large portions Victorian science community were quick to see the explanatory power of Natural Selection.

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    17. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      And hopefully, someday, hopefully, the same thing will happen to relativity when they unite relativity with quantum mechanics.

      For some reason, people always seem to think that when uniting general relativity and quantum mechanics, only general relativity will change. I don't see why quantum mechanics shouldn't change, too. Especially the way time is treated in quantum mechanics.

      Note that when unifying special relativity and quantum mechanics, it was quantum mechanics which changed, and special relativity which remained unchanged.

      --
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    18. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by Hentes · · Score: 2

      I agree, Kuhn's theory has become dated. I suggest we all shift to a new...oh, wait.

    19. Re:Kuhn Paradigms by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      I think we're now at the point of arguing about what "works" means, quite honestly. Do you believe something changed about how people view the way in which the world "works" when the Internet was introduced into their lives? If so, what?

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  3. Stupid buzz words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Science no longer moves in "paradigm shifts". It has given way to the movement of "game changers".

    Besides, I doubt sicence has ever moved this way. The history of sicence has always seemed to me to follow no consistent path, but rather a series of incremental gains in knowledge and understanding amongst numerous fields that occasionally result in a milestone breakthrough that opens up new fields of research. But this work seems to imply that science follows, to use a visual analogy, a one dimensional line of growth in the direction of "progress" whereas I've always seen science as organically growing and spreading not in one but in many dimensions, along numerous lines of thought.

    Or maybe I'm crazy. I just hate the phrase paradigm shift.

    1. Re:Stupid buzz words by nyctopterus · · Score: 2

      Have you read The Structure of Scientific Revolutions? Because it seems like you haven't, because you don't contradict it even though you seem to be under the impression that you do. Also, as has been pointed out, this is where the phrase comes from, and you should understand what it means in this context to be entitled to "hate" it.

    2. Re:Stupid buzz words by 0111+1110 · · Score: 4, Informative

      By 'paradigm shift' Kuhn is talking about a change in how scientists look at the things. The point is not about whether science is more about moving forward in little baby steps or huge leaps or even whether it moves 'forward' at all, but about what happens when everyone starts looking at things differently. It's' a change in perspective more than some objective 'breakthrough', although a major breakthrough may be the stimulus for a paradigm shift.

      Since I don't have a copy of the book in front of me here's a blurb from wikipedia that seems to understand where Kuhn is coming from.

      A scientific revolution occurs, according to Kuhn, when scientists encounter anomalies that cannot be explained by the universally accepted paradigm within which scientific progress has thereto been made. The paradigm, in Kuhn's view, is not simply the current theory, but the entire worldview in which it exists, and all of the implications which come with it. This is based on features of landscape of knowledge that scientists can identify around them.

      There are anomalies for all paradigms, Kuhn maintained, that are brushed away as acceptable levels of error, or simply ignored and not dealt with (a principal argument Kuhn uses to reject Karl Popper's model of falsifiability as the key force involved in scientific change). Rather, according to Kuhn, anomalies have various levels of significance to the practitioners of science at the time. To put it in the context of early 20th century physics, some scientists found the problems with calculating Mercury's perihelion more troubling than the Michelson-Morley experiment results, and some the other way around.

      and

      When enough significant anomalies have accrued against a current paradigm, the scientific discipline is thrown into a state of crisis, according to Kuhn. During this crisis, new ideas, perhaps ones previously discarded, are tried. Eventually a new paradigm is formed, which gains its own new followers, and an intellectual "battle" takes place between the followers of the new paradigm and the hold-outs of the old paradigm. Again, for early 20th century physics, the transition between the Maxwellian electromagnetic worldview and the Einsteinian Relativistic worldview was neither instantaneous nor calm, and instead involved a protracted set of "attacks," both with empirical data as well as rhetorical or philosophical arguments, by both sides, with the Einsteinian theory winning out in the long-run. Again, the weighing of evidence and importance of new data was fit through the human sieve: some scientists found the simplicity of Einstein's equations to be most compelling, while some found them more complicated than the notion of Maxwell's aether which they banished. Some found Eddington's photographs of light bending around the sun to be compelling, some questioned their accuracy and meaning. Sometimes the convincing force is just time itself and the human toll it takes, Kuhn said, using a quote from Max Planck: "a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

      After a given discipline has changed from one paradigm to another, this is called, in Kuhn's terminology, a scientific revolution or a paradigm shift. It is often this final conclusion, the result of the long process, that is meant when the term paradigm shift is used colloquially: simply the (often radical) change of worldview, without reference to the specificities of Kuhn's historical argument.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

      By paradigm shift Kuhn is not just talking about a big change in science. The data might be nearly the same, but the conceptual model has changed and the data begins to prove another theory entirely. Don't forget that when Copernicus' theory was first released Ptolemy's model fit

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  4. The Relativity of Wrong by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

    The shifts - if they truly exist - have tended to become smaller asymptotically as science progresses.

    This was explained very well by Isaac Asimov in his essay The Relativity of Wrong. Aristotle and Newton were both wrong about gravity. But, relatively, Aristotle was much more wrong.

  5. Tools vs. Concepts by swm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Thomas Kuhn in his famous book, _The Structure of Scientific
    Revolutions_, talked almost exclusively about concepts and hardly at
    all about tools. His idea of a scientific revolution is based on a
    single example, the revolution in theoretical physics that occurred in
    the 1920s with the advent of quantum mechanics. [...]

    Kuhn's book was so brilliantly written that it became an
    instant classic. It misled a whole generation of students and
    historians of science into believing that all scientific revolutions
    are concept-driven. [...]

    In the last 500 years, in addition to the quantum-mechanical
    revolution that Kuhn took as his model, we have had six major
    concept-driven revolutions, associated with the names of Copernicus,
    Newton, Darwin, Maxwell, Freud, and Einstein. During the same period
    there have been about twenty tool-driven revolutions [...].

    Two prime examples of tool-drive revolutions are the Galilean
    revolution resulting from the use of the telescope in astronomy, and
    the Crick-Watson revolution resulting from the use of X-ray diffraction
    to determine the structure of big molecules in biology.

    The effect of a concept-driven revolution is to explain old things in
    new ways. The effect of a tool-drive revolution is to discover new
    things that have to be explained.

    -- Freeman Dyson, Imagined Worlds

    1. Re:Tools vs. Concepts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Dyson obviously hadn't read Structures in a while. Kuhn is very clear that changes of instrumentation are paradigm changes. I have been teaching Kuhn in a sociology of science class over the last 15 years. It has long been seen as problematic: too based on physics (no examples from biology), too dependent on the written record (it turns out oral knowledge is very important as is human action, which is not well reflected in the written record), inconsistently selective as to what counts as a paradigm change or challenge (he tries somewhat desperately to counter the charge 70 or so different uses of paradigm in his postscript in the 2nd edition. It's also too Eurocentric ( so much of science developed in the context of warfare, colonialism and global expansion). That said it is a brilliant work, and sets up what has become modern visions of science such as Actor-Network-Theory, even though Kuhn is usually a footnote in modern sociology of science texts.

  6. Person who wrote the summary has never read Kuhn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Incommensurable" does not mean that one theory is no more correct than the other. It means that paradigms have different sets of terminologies and that scientists working under different paradigms may use the exact same word to mean two different things. That makes it difficult for them to communicate. That's what "incommensurable" means.

  7. Re:I see the problem by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't think Kuhn was really thinking in terms of social sciences in his book. He was thinking of traditional science which is about using the scientific method of testing hypothesis with experiments. Depending on how you define "social science" I don't think there is a lot of objective experimentation going on.

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  8. Re:Positivists Don't Understand Paradigm Changes by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh look. Another quack advocate trying to justify pseudoscience by calling real science into question.

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  9. The article itself comes with some misconceptions. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 2

    Much of modern biology seeks to emulate physics by reducing the human organism to a complex machine: thinking becomes merely chemical potentials and electric bursts, interest and motivation become mere drives to perpetuate the genome, and love becomes little more than an illusion.

    Um, what? Nobody - not even Dawkins in "The Selfish Gene" - claims that "interest and motivation" are "mere drives to perpetuate the genome". Or that love isn't real. (Hell, Dawkins explicitly argues the opposite.)

    I'll grant that thinking - consciousness and awareness - is still a 'Kuhnian anomaly' that a lot of people are working on. But just because we understand molecular biology much better now and don't need to posit some elan vital to account for life doesn't mean that we can't make any principled distinctions between life and nonlife. Similarly, if we found out precisely how the brain gives rise to consciousness, that wouldn't mean thinking per se didn't exist.

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  10. Kuhn is not everything by jw3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Firstly, please note that Thomas Kuhn's view of how science happens is one of many possibilities. On one side of the spectrum, you have Popper and his younger collegue, Imre Lakatos; on the other end, you have Feyerabend and his "everything goes". Unfortunately, all that is philosophy, so itself is not science and cannot be verified experimentally or backed up with meaningful statistics. Thus, depending on whom you talk to, you will find arguments for Popper or for Lakatos or for Feyerabend or for Kuhn, all coming from the same field of science.

    Personally, I value the popperian hypothesis-falsification paradigm a lot, especially since it fits so nicely with classical statistical hypothesis testing, and I insist on teaching it to students (I am a biologist), but I am well aware of its limitations.

    Unfortunately, when reading texts of the great philosphers of science, one has the impression that all they really wanted to explain was "the big stuff", the grand theories, the grand revolutions or paradigm shifts. It is easy to argue for paradigm shifts if you focus on Copernicus and Einstein. It is much harder to immerse yourself in the day-to-day reality of scientific work, the millions of manuscripts generated, the propagation of ideas, their deeply intertwined relationships, as no idea, however genial, ever materializes itself from nothing.

    1. Re:Kuhn is not everything by careysub · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally, I value the popperian hypothesis-falsification paradigm a lot, especially since it fits so nicely with classical statistical hypothesis testing, and I insist on teaching it to students (I am a biologist), but I am well aware of its limitations.

      Popper has been very influential since he provides a clear prescriptive model on how to do science, with a well defended philosophical basis.

      The problem is that it does not describe very well how science has actually progressed, in the past or the present. You can argue that there is a sub rosa Popperian process unfolding, but science has rarely advanced by applying an explicit Popperian reasoning and experimental approach.

      Kuhn was revolutionary in emphasizing the social process of scientific discovery.

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  11. Punctuated Equilibrium by VoidEngineer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wrote my senior thesis on Kuhn, positivism, etc nearly 10 years ago. My take away was that scientific and theoretical advances get disseminated throughout society. Ergo, a population undergoes memetic evolution. Drawing on biology, the obvious model is one of punctuated equilibrium. Once one reconciles the ideas of paradigm shifts with punctuated equilibrium, it becomes pretty evident how technology evolves, science is disseminated, differing rates of change in different fields, etc. All one has to do is look at the iPhone, iPad, and Leap to see modern paradigm changes in action. (Protip: The language we use to describe the punctuated equilibrium changes of the human species is that of stock markets, marketing, and market analysis.)

    As Gibson put it, "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." I also highly recommend Hulls "Science as a Process".
    http://www.amazon.com/Science-Process-Evolutionary-Development-Foundations/dp/0226360512

  12. Re:I see the problem by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's exactly right. In fact the article complains at great length that the social sciences are a mistake: they're really veiled branches of philosophy, trying to fit a complicated universe to a set of paradigms stolen from other fields (including physics and biology) simply because those fields and models are in vogue. When Kuhn described the process of paradigm change, the social scientists interpreted it as a validation of their methodology, which ran directly against his wishes.

    The summary is hence very dishonest about the book and article; Kuhn explicitly considered his theories inappropriate for the social sciences, and the article never casts any doubt on the applicability of his model to biology; it merely points out that it was an oversight. (And as a biologist, I feel pretty strongly that paradigm shifting applies equally to physics and biology.)

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  13. Re:I see the problem by narcc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think there is a lot of objective experimentation going on.

    I've see Biology accused of the same thing. That seems silly to me.

    That's because you're not familiar with those fields. You'll find that empirical methods are the standard, just like every other science.

    There is a greater reliance on ordinal data, but that's no more wrong that the hard-sciences' dependence on induction.

    The problem on seems to appear when non-scientists repeat rubbish like this from other non-scientists. I suspect, however, that this particular bit of nonsense has its roots in good old fashioned discipline envy.

  14. Re:Yes, Kuhn was almost perfectly wrong by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Funny

    Einstein still claims...

    Wait, what?

    This is very disturbing.

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  15. Paradigm shifts in Biology by structural_biologist · · Score: 2

    Sydney Brenner, who won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his work on programmed cell death, wrote a nice essay in the journal Science (subscription required) describing what he saw as a major paradigm shift in the 1950s and 60s that created modern molecular biology. Prior to the discovery of the structure of DNA by Watson and Crick, biologists had been focusing on how DNA and its associated proteins might be carrying out the functions of the cell. The discovery of the structure of DNA, however, fundamentally changed how researchers approached these questions by revealing that DNA is really just carrying information. Brenner writes:

    "We can now see exactly what constituted the new paradigm in the life sciences: It was the introduction of the idea of information and its physical embodiment in DNA sequences of four different bases. Thus, although the components of DNA are simple chemicals, the complexity that can be generated by different sequences is enormous. In 1953, biochemists were preoccupied only with questions of matter and energy, but now they had to add information. In the study of protein synthesis, most biochemists were concerned with the source of energy for the synthesis of the peptide bond; a few wrote about the “patternization” problem. For molecular biologists, the problem was how one sequence of four nucleotides encoded another sequence of 20 amino acids."

    Indeed, following this paradigm shift, Watson and others quickly worked out the question of how the information encoded in DNA gets read by the cell and their work now forms the central dogma of modern molecular biology. Therefore, Kuhn's concept of paradigm shifts does indeed apply to biology.

  16. Re:Yes by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Another way of putting it: Many social sciences aren't really science. Some fields of study that are described as "social sciences" are really sciences: For example, psychology is a field in which there are real experiments you can run on people and come to useful conclusions about human behavior. Some other fields of study that are described as "social sciences" are not really science.

    An example of a non-science "science": macroeconomics. The reason that macroeconomics isn't really a science is that people who's hypotheses fail to match reality can always come up with another external reason for why their hypothesis doesn't apply. For example, if you believe the Efficient Market Hypothesis (which basically argues that markets quickly sort out any mis-priced assets and re-price them correctly), and you find out that trillions of dollars worth of financial assets are mis-priced and have been for years, you can just find any kind of government intervention that hasn't really been tested as to what its effects really are and claim that this is why the mis-pricing happened, allowing the hypothesis to stand even in the face of contrary evidence.

    Another example of a non-science "social science": [historically-disadvantaged-group] studies. These aren't generally speaking sciences because they are focused on documenting and attempting to understand the history and present realities of the disadvantages the group has suffered. That doesn't mean it's not worth doing, but it does mean that it's not science. For example, there's nobody I'm aware of in those fields that's doing experimental work, just a lot of documenting and guessing at what it all means.

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  17. Re:I see the problem by narcc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the social sciences are a mistake: they're really veiled branches of philosophy

    So is the whole of natural science. What we colloquially refer to as "science" is just applied epistemology.

    It always bothers me when philosophy is used as a pejorative. Not because I have some particular fondness for philosophy, but because that use stems from a shameful level of willful ignorance. Questions like "Why do the methods of science work?" and "How can they change over time and still be effective?" are decidedly philosophical questions.

    Second-rate scientists with this sort of negative attitude toward philosophy remind me of the women in this old joke: A man is helping his wife prepare a roast for dinner. The womans' husband asks here why she cuts the ends off the roast before putting it in the pan. "I don't know" she replies "that's the way my mother always did it." The wife now curious, calls her mother to ask. "I don't know" her mother replies "that's the way my mother always did it." Undaunted, she calls her grandmother and asks her why she always cut the ends off the roast before putting it in the pan. Finally, she gets the answer "Because my roasting pan was too small!" O mortal

    Just like the women in the story could produce a fine roast without any real understanding about how a roast should be prepared, so can the second-rate scientist produce acceptable output without having the faintest clue about how science works.

    In short, you can't understand science without understanding philosophy.

    This will offend a lot of people. Confronting ones own ignorance can be difficult.

  18. to argue by Frontier+Owner · · Score: 2

    To argue that paradigm shift dont apply to social science would be to admit that social science is a science.

  19. Re:Kuhn Paradigms, Nonsense by Omestes · · Score: 2

    Have you actually taken any social science classes? At a high level?

    I can't talk for sociology (though I would love to call it a joke), but in certain areas of psychology, there is real science going on. Predictions, measurements, mapping things to mathematical models, testing those models with highly controlled empirical techniques, etc... Yes, there are the feel good, talky, therapy bits, and those bits are guilty of bad science, and truth by handwaving. But there is also a lot of pure research going on, and many experiments that have been done thousands of times with similar results. Yes, the standard of proof is a bit lower than physics and the like, but this is inevitable. Its harder to control for people, than it is a single atom of cesium in a vacuum.

    You also ignore emerging and growing cross over of psychology and neurology, and biology, along with some areas of compsci (whose science-ishness is also a bit dubious).

    Anthropology is also a mixed bag. Cultural anthropology is a bout as woo as most sociology, but physical anthropology is pretty much only an offshoot of biology, and thus an actual science.

    Some aspects of the social sciences are just as sciency as the hard sciences. Some aspects of the so-called hard-sciences are also pretty damn ridiculous as well, which is only classical metaphysics for math nerds.

    Back to Kuhn, oddly I just finished re-reading his book. I read it in college when I was doing philosophy of science, but I came across it when reading about Errol Morris' experiences with Mr. Kuhn, so gave it another go. Errol Morris had some very good complains, mostly hinging on "incommensurability", and what a horribly defined concept it is. In the book, people of two paradigms can't talk to each other in an understandable way anymore, which is obviously idiotic. Mr. Kuhn then spent the rest of his career trying to actually define his own term, a term which much of his theory actually rests on. The fault in this idea was very clear when I re-read it. If you read it as a less extreme version of itself it is rather profound. But if you read it as it sounds, it is a bit absurd with some thought.

    Either way, I still love the book, since right or wrong it leads to an interesting conversation, and some fun exploration within the philosophy of science.

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  20. Re:I see the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Science once was referred as 'natural philosophy' and it is clear that even mathematics (which are the most intelectually pure endeavor) require an understanding of old philosophic problems and pose new, hard to tackle ones. The problem is that much of what is contemporarly referred as 'philosphy' is masturbatory, long winded and conclusive; tackling mostly issues of the political world and 'self-help'. Long gone are the days where Wittgenstein and Russell were read and discussed seriously in philosophy faculties.

  21. Re:I see the problem by careysub · · Score: 2

    (And as a biologist, I feel pretty strongly that paradigm shifting applies equally to physics and biology.)

    Indeed. One of the striking things about modern science is the how rapidly the biological sciences are advancing - and how quickly fundamentally new understandings about how biological systems have been appearing. From genetics to genomics, we have within the lifetime of one of the original discovers of the structure of DNA (James Watson) gone through several vast shifts in understanding of how DNA works, and what the DNA record shows about the tree of life.

    The new kingdoms of life, dramatic changes in understanding of how evolution proceeds, successive revolutions in understanding DNA (multiple levels of regulation still being discovered, the profound importance of inaccurately named "junk" DNA, etc. etc.). The emergence of new paradigms is obscured perhaps by how many there are and how quickly one follows another.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  22. incommensurable by Immerman · · Score: 2

    Not quite, you're right that it has nothing to do with relative correctness, but it also has nothing to do with communication

    incommensurable
    adj.
    a. Impossible to measure or compare.
    b. Lacking a common quality on which to make a comparison.

      In other words it means that there is simply no common yardstick against which they could be compared. Remember, we're not talking about the theories themselves - clearly the later ones are more accurate or they wouldn't have replaced the earlier ones. We're talking about the paradigm shifts. Newton said that the motion of bodies was fundamentally predictable and followed simple, strict rules. Einstein said that the fundamental matrix of the universe was malleable and distorted with perspective. QM says that the basic "stuff" in the universe is in principle non-deterministic and we will never, ever be able to perfectly predict or copy *anything*.

    Each of the concepts fundamentally altered the way scientists looked at the world, but how can you compare the nature and magnitude of such a shift? Things that were common knowledge for generations were suddenly shown to be false. There's simply no way to say "This change in world view was bigger than that one", what yardstick could you possibly use for comparison? That is what incommensurable means.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  23. Scope of social sciences by DragonWriter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, social sciences are concerned with two questions, only one of which is scientific. The scientific question is: How do societies work. The non-scientific question is: How should societies work.

    Actually, no. Social sciences are concerned with various aspects of the first question. The second question is a philosophical question which is outside the scope of the social sciences in the same way as the question "what should we do with the world's supply of fissionables" is outside the scope of nuclear physics.

    Obviously, individual social scientists may be concerned with the second question and, moreover, once you determine a particular set of goals with regard to the second question, social science can provide insight as to the particular steps which are most likely to acheive the desired goals, just as once you have the performance requirements for an aircraft, materials science can provide insight as to what materials are most appropriate to build it out of given the requirements.

  24. Re:I see the problem by narcc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wasn't attacking you. I was addressing a specific statement, made by the author, that you reference. Relax, the world isn't out to get you.

    (In fairness, my reply to your "strawman" post could be interpreted as an attack -- but one made in retaliation! You've got to admit, however, that it isn't exactly the most coherent thing you've ever written.)

    You have not refuted the claim that the social sciences are essentially unscientific

    Why should it? Would you bother to refute a nonsense claim like "marshmellows are just like pudding" or "cat's can only live on a strict diet of bicycles"? Of course not. It's not my fault that the author is a moron, nor is it my problem. (Besides, what would I offer as proof? Slowly copy/paste 50 years worth of the most popular journals?)

    It's obvious to anyone without a mental disorder that the social sciences are scientific. They do, after all, apply the same methods as other sciences (with testable hypotheses and experiments and everything!). It's like claiming that Biology isn't a science.

    I've run across that one myself. I'll bet you have as well. Discipline envy? Just get over it and laugh when the morons on internet discussion forums who bash biology or the social sciences fall all over themselves to produce this or that study (the fruits of biology or the social sciences) to support their argument with scientific research. :)

  25. Re:I see the problem by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not to pile on but: there's a lot of science in social sciences. What there's not is engineering. Core theories are (mostly) about testible premises, and I'm not sure where you'd get the idea that they aren't.

    Take for example the oft-maligned field of "communication studies". There's no engineering there yet, but there is practical science: how do you measure "receptivity to information", how do you measure how persuasive a speech is to one group vs another, and so on. Constructing repeatable measures that give repeatable results is where all sciences begin, and even in this somewhat primitive state it's a useful science. How do you make a warning sign that people will actually be warned by? How do you ask patients in a walk-in clininc personal questions in such a way that you maximize your chance of an honest answer?

    It may all be squishy, and not the geek-loved black-and-white, but once a science has a repeatable way to measure what they study, hypotheses can make predictions, and these predictions can be falsified and science can happen.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  26. Re:I see the problem by gmhowell · · Score: 2

    It's obvious to anyone without a mental disorder that the social sciences are scientific.

    You seem to have forgotten what site you are on.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  27. Re:Kuhn Paradigms, Nonsense by SomeKDEUser · · Score: 2

    compsci is not science at all. It is a branch of mathematics. There is the question of processor design, if you count it in, which is basically engineering.

    Mathematics are not a science, because they do not rely on underlying reality: the universe may have had completely different physics (never mind the fine-tuning arguments) but mathematics would still be the same.

  28. You misunderstand the article by Geof · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the article complains at great length that the social sciences are a mistake: they're really veiled branches of philosophy

    The article says no such thing:

    Value judgments are always at the core of the social sciences. “In the end,” wrote Irving Kristol, “the only authentic criterion for judging any economic or political system, or any set of social institutions, is this: what kind of people emerge from them?” And precisely because we differ on what kind of people should emerge from our institutions, our scientific judgments about them are inevitably tied to our value commitments. But this is not to say that those values, or the scientific work that rests on them, cannot be publicly debated according to recognized standards. . . .

    The lasting value of Kuhn’s thesis in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is that it reminds us that any science, however apparently purified of the taint of philosophical speculation, is nevertheless embedded in a philosophical framework — and that the great success of physics and biology is due not to their actual independence from philosophy but rather to physicists’ and biologists’ dismissal of it.

    In other words, physics and biology sciences, just like social science, are reliant on philosophy: but there normal functioning - what Kuhn calls "normal science" - depends on them disregarding this dependence. But when a crisis is reached, philosophy becomes central. (I had to read that and the following text a few times to appreciate the important distinction between independence and dismissal.)

    Here is Kuhn in the book itself, explaining why competing paradigms are incommensurable. Arguing agains Popper's idea of falsification, his point is that scientific method cannot provide a foolproof method for deciding between them:

    No process yet disclosed by the historical study of scientific development at all resembles the methodological stereotype of falsification in direct comparison with nature. . . . anomalous experiences may not be identified with falsifying ones. Indeed, I doubt that the latter exist. As has repeatedly been emphasized before, no theory ever solves all the puzzles with which it is confronted at a given time; nor are the solutions already achieved often perfect. On the contrary, it is just the incompleteness and imperfection of the existing data-theory fit that, at any time, define many of the puzzles that characterize normal science. If any and every failure to fit were ground fo theory rejection, all theories ought to be rejected at all times. On the other hand, if only severe failure to fit justifies theory rejection, then the Popperians will require some criterion of “improbability” or of “degree of falsification”.

    (Frankly, this is probably a little unfair. Perhaps no falsifying test can be absolutely perfect, but some can come awfully close.) Ultimately, when a paradigm shift takes place it can only be resolved through consensus, not scientific objectivity. Thus the character of a scientific community is central to his inquiry and his theory:

    . . . the choice between . . . competing paradigms proves to be a choice between incompatible modes of community life. Because it has that character, the choice is not and cannot be determined merely by the evaluative procedures characteristic of normal science, for those depende in part upon a particular paradigm, and that paradigm is at issue. . . . Each group uses its own paradigm to argue in that paradigm's defense.

    The philosopher Juergen Habermas has explored the nature of science also. He argues that the scientific questions are decided on the basis of evidence: but that no objective method can determine what counts as evidence. It is the consensus of the community of scientists that makes this judgement. Thus the fundamental basis f

  29. Re:I see the problem by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

    Malthus's influence on Darwin led to a model of natural selection that was much more accurate than its predecessors, readily supported by the ecosystem of the Galapagos Islands, and which naturally followed from the subject matter. Two ways are discussed in which theories in the social sciences fail to meet these standards:

    First, the article states that Popper felt that important theories in the social sciences (such as Freudian psychology) never reach this level of concreteness, saying of Freudianism that it "did not make well-defined predictions and proved adept at reformulating its explanations to fit observations, changing the details so as to salvage the theory."

    Second, the article calls attention to cases where Kuhn himself felt the social sciences borrowed metaphors from other fields without identifying a root cause for why this should be so, only exploiting superficial similarity in the phenomena within those fields:

    Many of the early social scientists came to view society in terms of contemporary physics; they adopted the Enlightenment belief in science as the source of progress, and considered physics the archetypical science. They understood society as a mechanism that could be engineered and adjusted.

    And:

    ...and so in the social sciences, the conception of society as a machine has gone out of vogue. Social scientists have increasingly turned to biology and ecology for possible analogies on which to build their social theories; organisms are supplanting machines as the guiding metaphor for social life. In 1991, the Journal of Evolutionary Economics was launched with an eye toward advancing a Darwinian understanding of economics, complete with genotypes and phenotypes. The justification for this kind of model is straightforward: one of the biggest difficulties for economists is the dynamism of any given economy. As Joseph Schumpeter rightly pointed out, economies change; they evolve, rather than staying fixed like a Newtonian machine with merely moving parts. Since machines do not change, whereas societies do, it is reasonable to move the study of economics away from the metaphor of systems and toward that of organisms.

    This is essentially different from the validation that Darwinian evolution underwent when the mechanism of Mendelian genetics was provided to explain how it worked. Without a comprehensive reason to explain why economics should resemble biological life to this extent, this analogy is only one of convenience. There should be no incentive to hammer a social science into the template of a model from the hard sciences, and the article points out an example noticed by Eric Voegelin, wherein John Fortescue broke from a 'human body' metaphor in his description of a political theory, borrowing concepts from Christianity to improve on it.

    Personally, I believe the article's author is a bit hard on the social sciences, and sets a tone implying that all theories in the social sciences necessarily have these faults. I don't think all fundamental theories in the social sciences necessarily involve value judgements, and certainly not all of them are unverifiable. Does that address any of your complaints?

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!