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Geothermal Power Advances

An anonymous reader writes "A group of geothermal power engineers have created three reservoirs from a single well in a place where none existed previously. This is a breakthrough for Enhanced Geothermal System technology — people who need power often can't choose a spot where there happens to be a geothermal reservoir, and EGS could allow us to create them where needed. 'Last fall, engineers pumped cold water into the ground, cracking open fissures in the deep rock, a process known as hydroshearing. They then sealed one reservoir from the other using a new technology. They injected ground-up recycled plastic bottles, which plugged up the cracks in one reservoir while millions of gallons of cold water were being pumped in to create another. Then the plastic diffused, leaving behind three reservoirs. ... The U.S. Department of Energy, which is covering half the $43.8 million cost of the Newberry project, says if the initial indications hold up, the Newberry project would mark the first time in the world that multiple geothermal reservoirs have been created on purpose from a single well in a new area.'"

40 of 168 comments (clear)

  1. This is NOT Fracking... by flyingfsck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No Sir, anything but. Not fracking at all. Fracking is only done by the evil gas companies...

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by chill · · Score: 5, Informative

      The biggest objection to fracking is the unknown chemicals pumped into the ground, potentially contaminating the groundwater. These people pumped water down, not chemicals. There is no danger of contamination.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    2. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      No Sir, anything but. Not fracking at all. Fracking is only done by the evil gas companies...

      Fracking is considered "evil" for two reasons:
        1) The chemical brew mixed with the water.
        2) Gas leaking into groundwater.

      Neither of these apply to geothermal fracturing. Most of the chemical additives are to help free the gas from the rock. There is no reason to add them to water used for geothermal fracturing. There is no gas leaking into groundwater either, because there is no gas.

      Geothermal fracturing can also cause minor earthquakes, but I think that concern is overblown. I live on a faultline in California, and we get tremors every few months. They are not dangerous to someone in a normal wood frame house, and you just learn to live with them.
       

    3. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      What about the earthquakes? Cracking the earth isn't a good idea.

      Spewing billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere isn't a good idea either. Geothermal energy has an enourmous potential to reduce those emissions. If the price is a some minor tremors in remote locations, it is worth it.

    4. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by houstonbofh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The biggest objection to fracking is the unknown chemicals pumped into the ground, potentially contaminating the groundwater. These people pumped water down, not chemicals. There is no danger of contamination.

      "They injected ground-up recycled plastic bottles, which plugged up the cracks in one reservoir while millions of gallons of cold water were being pumped in to create another."


      No danger, huh?

    5. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by chill · · Score: 2

      Oh, please. If you want to play that game then water is a chemical, too. Everything is chemicals.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    6. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Geothermal energy has an enourmous potential to reduce those emissions. If the price is a some minor tremors in remote locations, it is worth it.

      Well, time to sacrifice some karma on the truth once again. The poster child for geothermal power in the USA is Calpine at The Geysers, near Calistoga CA. Near, in fact, old faithful, which is old but not particularly faithful. It is neither as regular nor as potent as it used to be.

      Neither are the vents at The Geysers, which is why they started injecting primary-treated sewage water (reports on how well-treated it is vary) into the ground in order to rebuild steam. This did have the desired effect, but it also had others, primarily increased seismicity. Indeed, many dollars have been paid out to people whose homes have been damaged by it. They are, you see, more than minor tremors on occasion. This is of course a minor location, so that part of the recipe is true enough anyhow.

      On top of that, however, there's the fact that the plant has been perpetually under production and over budget since its creation, in spite of the shit-pumping. So basically, you want to spend a lot of money to build mediocre power plants that have greater ecological impact than you think and which will never produce the amount of power they promise. None of this is a law of thermodynamics or anything, but look at the country we're talking about. This ain't Germany, we're talking about the USA. We could do it right, we have all the skills and all the materials, but we won't, because that's not how we do things. We do things in the way that produces that maximum amount of pork. That's why PG&E is blowing up gas lines in residential areas in California, it's not because they couldn't afford to fix them or didn't know they needed to be fixed but because someone could get a third yacht if they didn't fix them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by chill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Inert plastic? The same stuff they make carpet, park benches, and food containers out of?

      The same stuff they ship bottled water in?

      Reported, regulated, testable plastic. Not trademarked, trade secret potential toxins.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    8. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by filthpickle · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's a witch!

    9. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by chill · · Score: 2

      Well, with tracking we are usually talking at a significant depth, well below the water table. The contamination comes from running the well thru the water table and down. Not really from the fracturing itself.

      There may be isolated cases of just the fracture causing contamination, but I haven't seen any. I doubt the number of cases runs to a statistically significant number, especially when compared to something like, say, regular oil well drilling.

      In all honesty I'd be more concerned with morons dumping used motor oil in their back yard.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    10. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 5, Informative

      The idea that the chemicals are unknown is horse poop.

      Here's a list: http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used

      The companies involved just don't tell Greenpeace etc. what the chemicals are, and apparently Greenpeace etc. would prefer to make a big political stink out of it rather than fund a GC-MS lab to run the analysis and find out that it's actually stuff like polysaccharides sand and which will destroy their talking points, which of course opens the question why are they making such a stupid lot of fuss about the whole thing?

      But you can bet they know.

      The regulatory agencies for sure know what the chemicals are - sometimes they aren't allowed to tell others because the states protect the trade secrets involved. But not always.

      A lot of the stuff is disclosed on sites like this: http://fracfocus.org/ - several states now require drillers upload the chemical compositions to this site as part of their permitting process. Texas for example.

      http://03646f4.netsolhost.com/?p=218

      Also of course if you patent something you have to disclose or the patent isn't valid. So that's always an interesting source of info as well.

      These fluids are pretty boring actually. Viscosifier, proppant, and corrosion inhibitor. In fact if you do a Google search you'll come up with articles on which ones to use.

      Last time I posted this info on slashdot I was modded down to Troll in less than 30 seconds. I wonder how long it will take today?

    11. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by jamesh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Inert plastic? The same stuff they make carpet, park benches, and food containers out of?

      The same stuff they ship bottled water in?

      Reported, regulated, testable plastic. Not trademarked, trade secret potential toxins.

      That's the stuff. It's perfectly fine unless it happens to get hot somehow.

    12. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, time to sacrifice some karma on the truth once again. The poster child for geothermal power in the USA is Calpine at The Geysers, near Calistoga CA. Near, in fact, old faithful, which is old but not particularly faithful. It is neither as regular nor as potent as it used to be.

      Old Faithful is in Wyoming, which is two states (Utah and Nevada) away from California.

    13. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by LMariachi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Boring?! Long chemical names don’t inherently scare me (Calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, oh my!) but a lot of the shit on that list is pretty heinous. It’s telling that even a greenwashing industry shill site like Fracfocus can’t make their practices sound responsible.

    14. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by riverat1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is a dry area not near anyone's drinking water aquifer. They drilled into solid basalt and used cold water to crack it. I'm not even sure there's any avenue for the plastic to escape. The water they use will come from the Deschutes River (which is miles away from the drill site) and will be recycled in a closed cycle. Nobody lives close to the drill site and not many people live within 30 miles of it. The nearest city of any size is Bend, OR, 40 or 50 miles northwest on the other side of Mt. Newberry. As an Oregonian whose spent time in that area I'm not that concerned about it and it's worth the experiment to see how it works.

    15. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by riverat1 · · Score: 2

      It's a dry well. There really is no ground water to contaminate in that area, certainly no wells or surface sources that humans depend on for drinking water. The closest human dwelling is probably at least 10 miles away.

    16. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by riverat1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Geysers is an entirely different kind of geothermal development. It uses water already in the ground. This new development on Mount Newberry is into dry basalt and all the water they use will be from surface sources and it will be run in a closed loop cycle so none is released.

    17. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by approachingZero+ · · Score: 2

      With all due respect you are wrong. The argument against fracking has nothing to do with the potential contamination of ground water - it is simply the latest crusade of the environmental terror industry in their endless campaign to raise money. Normally you have a problem and then people come together to work towards a solution to deal with the problem, such as the Tea Party organically coming into existence as a result of the over-reach of government. There is no epidemic of ground water contamination due to 'fracking', there is an epidemic of scaremongering on the part of fund raising environmental groups. Mark my words, if geothermal begins to look like a fat money basket by these same groups that target 'fracking' for fund raising you will soon see a tidal wave of scary literature condemning the threat of big geotherm.

      --
      'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
    18. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Inert plastic? The same stuff they make carpet, park benches, and food containers out of?

      The plastics industry called, and they said they would be highly interested in this "inert plastic". Apparently, they have never heard of it, but they'd sure like some to correct the fact that all plastic bottles leach chemicals into their contents. There is no such thing as inert plastic.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3

      That is a dry area not near anyone's drinking water aquifer. They drilled into solid basalt and used cold water to crack it. I'm not even sure there's any avenue for the plastic to escape. The water they use will come from the Deschutes River (which is miles away from the drill site) and will be recycled in a closed cycle. Nobody

      That's what they always say. But as it turns out, they don't KNOW what the pattern of cracks looks like underground. Resonance imaging can only tell you so much. They do not and can not know that the cracks they open will not meet some other cracks that will result in a leak into an aquifer.

      As an Oregonian whose spent time in that area I'm not that concerned about it and it's worth the experiment to see how it works.

      So since you don't live there and don't care about it we should just shit it up willfully? That's a shitty argument, and frankly, it's the kind of argument that contributes to the harm to the biosphere upon which we all depend.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is a dry area not near anyone's drinking water aquifer. They drilled into solid basalt and used cold water to crack it. I'm not even sure there's any avenue for the plastic to escape. The water they use will come from the Deschutes River (which is miles away from the drill site) and will be recycled in a closed cycle. Nobody

      That's what they always say. But as it turns out, they don't KNOW what the pattern of cracks looks like underground. Resonance imaging can only tell you so much. They do not and can not know that the cracks they open will not meet some other cracks that will result in a leak into an aquifer.

      As an Oregonian whose spent time in that area I'm not that concerned about it and it's worth the experiment to see how it works.

      So since you don't live there and don't care about it we should just shit it up willfully? That's a shitty argument, and frankly, it's the kind of argument that contributes to the harm to the biosphere upon which we all depend.

      If people listen to you, and stop trying to make geothermal a viable way of getting energy, then we can continue to use coal and oil. Does that sound better?

      Telling us the risk of geothermal research is not zero is not helpful. Everything has some risk, including every source of energy. Unless you hace a realistic plan to stop all energy use, stop complaining and tell us where you think we should get energy.

    21. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Does anyone have any numbers on how many million years we can suck heat out of the ground before it becomes a problem?

      Sure. First of all, you need to realize that the major loss of heat from the mantle is via normal convection through the surface of the earth. But since AGW is heating up the atmosphere, that convection will be reduced, and the mantle will eventually heat up by the same amount as the atmosphere (although it will take a few millions of years to reach equilibrium). So lets say that AGW will heat up the atmosphere by 2C. So to have NO effect on the temperature of the earth, we could suck out the energy that would otherwise cause the Earth to warm up by 2C as well.

      The weight of the Earth is about 6e24 kg. It has a heat capacity of about 0.4 kJ/kg. So cooling it by 2C would be about 4.8e24kJ. In 2008, world wide energy use, from all sources, was about 500 exajoules, or 5e17kJ. So we could use geothermal energy for 100% of all of humanity's current energy consumption, for ten million years , just to offset global warming, and having no net effect.

      So worries about "cooling off the Earth" are a tad ridiculous.

    22. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Informative

      You might have been modded as a troll last time due to your completely ignoring all of the health effects that the chemicals on that list have just as the website you linked to does.

      From the page you linked, "Although there are dozens to hundreds of chemicals which could be used as additives, there are a limited number which are routinely used in hydraulic fracturing." It's not a comprehensive list of what goes into frakking fluid. It's a list of the most common chemicals and it admits that there are many others which are not listed.

      Elsewhere on the site, you'll find that it admits that "EPA has not included oil and gas extraction as an industry that must report under TRI." Some states have put rules in place to require disclosure of the chemicals used, but most have not and the government doesn't require it, so no... the regulatory agencies generally do not know what is being released into the environment.

      And that page doesn't actually list any of the harmful effects those chemicals can have, does it. In fact, the only problem it mentions is possible confusion due to chemicals being referred to with multiple names.

      Let's do a few minutes of research, shall we?

      Glutaraldehyde - Eye, skin and lung irritant. Long term exposure can cause sensitivity and more severe reactions. Implicated as a possible cause of occupational asthma

      Quaternary Ammonium Chloride - Eye, skin and lung irritant. Ingestion can be fatal.

      Tetrakis Hydroxymethyl-Phosphonium Sulfate - Mild skin and respiratory irritation. Long term exposure can cause sensitivity and more severe reactions.

      Ammonium Persulfate - Irritant. Ingestion can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea.

      Magnesium Peroxide - Eye, skin and lung irritant. Ingestion can cause nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Long term exposure may lead to lung damage.

      Tetramethyl ammonium chloride - Produces chemical burns to the eye. Skin and lung irritant. Extremely toxic to aquatic life. Long term exposure can cause permanent lung damage.

      Isopropyl Alcohol - CNS depressant. Can cause nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, coma and death.

      Methanol - Highly toxic to humans, CNS depressant. Causes metabolic acidosis. Can cause blindness, death. Metabolized into formic acid (see below) and formaldehyde which can be lethal, is a known carcinogen, eye irritant, asthma trigger, permanent lung damage, reproductive problems, miscarriages, allergic reactions... there's lots more but let's just say this one is arguably the nastiest one on the list and leave it at that.

      Formic acid - Much of the same as methanol since methanol is metabolized into formic acid. No need to repeat the entire paragraph.

      Acetaldehyde - Eye, skin and lung irritant. Probable carcinogen. Prolong exposure can cause permanent damage to lungs, kidney, liver. Can trigger Alzheimer's disease in people with a genetic deficiency in ALDH2 gene.

      And that's just the first quarter or so of the list.

      Much of that list is quite toxic to humans and other animals. Much of it can cause permanent damage to the liver, kidneys and/or lungs with long term exposure, some even at very low doses (the sort of exposure you'd get if you, oh I don't know, contaminated the groundwater).

      Your definition of "pretty boring" is ... interesting, to say the least.

    23. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 2

      Put your money where your mouth is. Find some solar panels that DON'T require tons of rare-earth materials to build and are more than 10% efficient.

      Oh wait, those don't exist outside of research labs that spend something like 100x the god awful cost prohibitive amount solar already costs.

      Better yet, you don't want this kind of geothermal? Get your smartypants ass going on designing better bore drills that can reach 10km+ depths so we can get down to the hot Granites that could literally power the entire U.S. with the use of zero fossil fuels.

      Until you can do this stop playing arm chair Geologist, it's even worse than arm chair Lawyer.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    24. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by Genda · · Score: 2

      The Oil Companies don't own the German Government... therefore no problem going for solar (sadly the same can't be said about the US government.) However, due to the similarities of drilling for oil, gas and this new geothermal, this is a potential energy source I'm betting the Oil guys would be willing to invest in. Add, the fact that as its monetized, the owners can turn it on and off 24/7, and it something that is much more compatible with their existing business models (its harder to meter the sun, and managing power storage and distribution for peak load is itself an interesting engineering problem... not insurmountable, just interesting, same issue with wind power.)

      The only issue I can see that is significant, is the possibility of geological activity leading to earthquake. The existing geothermal energy sources around Calistoga California have been the source of recent controversy. It seems, to increase the power output and efficiency of these systems that the owners have pumped substantial amounts of water into them, to dramatically increase steam production. The water and steam act as a lubricant, and allow fractured rock (faults) to slide more easily and there has been a dramatic increase of earthquakes in the area (some significant.)

      One could argue that this is a small trade for environmentally friendly, near unlimited high quality power, and with this new technology to make it available in even more areas, a potential energy windfall. That said, we should probably restrict its use near large active fault systems so as not to precipitate a profoundly unwanted side effect.

    25. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 2

      It's pretty boring when it gets down to 1-2 parts per trillion^10 or even more dilute.

      Hell I would worry more about the natural sulfides and arsenides leeched into groundwater from old Plutons than this shit. It's not like they are pumping millions of gallons of the pure chemicals even, they are treatments at low quantities in the water being pumped into the wells.

      Your definition of "OMFG the sky is falling, the fracking chems are gonna make my face melt" are ..... funny, to say the least.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    26. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, I'm not lying. They are not pumping a million+ gallons of any of the pure chemical listed. They are dilute in a water solution since water is "cheap". Even if some of those chemical manage to migrate to an aquifer the molecule count would most likely be in the parts per trillion, and that is assuming that chemical leeching and natural filtration didn't turn them into something harmless by the time they managed to get to the aquifer.

      As I said, you are more likely to find sulfides and arsenides that occur naturally.

      If every one of those chemicals is so dilute that it only makes up 1-2 parts per trillion, they would not have the effects that are listed beside them.

      That was the whole point... the chemicals MAY cause those effects in pure form, but the forms that you would see _if_ they migrated are going to be extremely diluted.

      Even someone with virtually no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever probably has a clue how much propylene glycol it takes to have an anti-freeze effect since they put it in their car.

      Most people are lucky to understand the difference in Octane rating of the fuel they put in their cars much less what Antifreeze is made from. The dealership takes care of all that messy stuff when they get their oil changed.

      I also didn't say anything about the sky falling or what the actual effects of fracking fluid might be. I simply showed that your claims that all those chemicals are harmless was a lie. Your response to my post demonstrates why you get modded as a troll.

      One, I never claimed anything upthread. You replied to my first post on the page. Two, can't be a lie... see point # one. And three, you might want to look again. There are plenty of mods that can understand satire and hyperbole, hence my comment standing at (score:3) as of this writing.

      Well there is four, your writing of "all those dangerous chemicals" makes you come off sounding scared and screaming the sky is falling. As I pointed out, there are quite a few worse things in our groundwater that naturally occur. That doesn't mean we should dump anything and everything in our aquifers; but using something that is harmful in highly pure concentrations doesn't automatically equal poisoning our drinking water supplies, especially since this is only a possibility situation.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    27. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by njvack · · Score: 3, Informative

      I thought of that too. Does anyone have any numbers on how many million years we can suck heat out of the ground before it becomes a problem?

      Actually, a physics prof at UCSD did a pretty thorough analysis of geothermal energy. The verdict: there are places in the country where it's great, but in the majority of the USA, it just isn't a particularly dense resource, so the energy return on investment (you need to dig a whole lot of really deep holes and stick a whole lot of pipe in the ground) is pretty meh.

      It probably will (and should) be developed more, but will remain a niche source of energy county and world-wide.

    28. Re:This is NOT Fracking... by njvack · · Score: 2

      So worries about "cooling off the Earth" are a tad ridiculous.

      The big problem isn't cooling off the whole earth (which does have a truly staggering amount of heat stored in its crust and mantle). The problem is cooling off the area in the immediate vicinity of your borehole so that it's no longer hot enough to do useful work for you; since rock doesn't have particularly good thermal conductivity, this sadly happens a lot faster than you'd like. The power plant at The Geysers produces about half the electrical power that it did when it opened, as it depleted the geothermal energy on a local scale.

      You can keep installing new power plants, but power plants are kind of expensive so that approach is problematic.

  2. Re:SOUNDS LIKE FRACKING! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    I've seen videos of Everclear-- uh, I mean "tap water" -- that lit on fire because of fracking!

    The gas in the groundwater is caused by improperly sealed boreholes. This can occur in wells regardless of whether they use fracking or not. Fracking, per se, does not cause flammable groundwater.

  3. Not the same as oil/gas fracking by Grayhand · · Score: 4, Informative
    Everyone seems to be calling it fracking without reading the article. Technically it's fracking but they aren't using millions of gallons of highly toxic chemicals and they aren't fracturing rock to release gas and oil which migrates up into ground water. My guess is they are drilling a lot deeper as well. I wish they gave a depth, the article is thin on details. At around 10,000 feet the ground temperature is well over 100 degrees so I'm guessing at least twice that far. Okay I'll paste an excerpt from Wikepedia on Kola borehole below. They hit 356F before the heat made them stop. I'm curious how they got the plastic out? They glaze over details like that. The great thing with geothermal is potentially if you can drill deep enough you can do it anywhere.

    Wikipedia excerpt

    "The main target depth was set at 15,000 m (49,000 ft). On 6 June 1979, the world depth record held by the Bertha Rogers hole in Washita County, Oklahoma, at 9,583 m (31,440 ft)[3] was broken. In 1983, the drill passed 12,000 m (39,000 ft), and drilling was stopped for about a year to celebrate the event.[4] This idle period may have contributed to a break-down on 27 September 1984: after drilling to 12,066 m (39,587 ft), a 5,000 m (16,000 ft) section of the drill string twisted off and was left in the hole. Drilling was later restarted from 7,000 m (23,000 ft).[4] The hole reached 12,262 m (40,230 ft) in 1989. In that year the hole depth was expected to reach 13,500 m (44,300 ft) by the end of 1990 and 15,000 m (49,000 ft) by 1993.[5][6] However, due to higher than expected temperatures at this depth and location, 180 C (356 F) instead of expected 100 C (212 F), drilling deeper was deemed unfeasible and the drilling was stopped in 1992.[4] With the expected further increase in temperature with increasing depth, drilling to 15,000 m (49,000 ft) would have meant working at a projected 300 C (570 F), at which the drill bit would no longer work.[citation needed]"

    1. Re:Not the same as oil/gas fracking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Newberry is a large dormant (and not very dormant at that) shield volcano in Central Oregon. It's known for it bimodal volcanism with runny basaltic andesite erupting from hundreds of small cinder cones on its sprawling flanks, and viscous silica rich rhyolite, obsidian, and ash prone to erupting from the central caldera. This bimodal (basalt and rhyolite) character is shared with older extinct volcanoes showing a clear age progression across Oregon's high lava plains to the east-southeast. Newberry is the youngest volcanic center in this physiographic province, with the most recent eruption having occurred a bit more than a thousand years ago. Small hot springs are frequently active along the shores of the two small caldera lakes.

      The rock at Newberry is hot at relatively shallow depths, which is why this area has long been considered for geothermal energy. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of existing groundwater, or at least the ground is not highly permeable, so it's necessary to pump in water and break up the rock a bit so water will flow easily. Well depths will be about 10,000 feet if I recall correctly, and the temperature at those depths will be about 285 degrees C.

    2. Re:Not the same as oil/gas fracking by riverat1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where they're drilling here in on the slopes of Newberry Volcano which has erupted at least 6 times in the last 12,000 years, the last eruption being about 1,400 years ago. There's a magma chamber beneath it so they don't have to go so deep. Wikipedia says they're drilling down 2-3 km (6,500-10,000 feet).

    3. Re:Not the same as oil/gas fracking by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      So water hitting magma.
      What possibly could go wrong?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  4. Re:Entropy by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2

    As long as it hurts the oil companies it's a good thing.

    --
    Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  5. Re:Isn't this slightly evil to? by riverat1 · · Score: 2

    There really is almost no risk this will contaminate anyone's drinking water. No one lives near the well and it's a sparsely populated area in general. The well they are drilling is over 6,000 feet deep in to dry rock. The water they inject will be used in a closed cycle so it's not released to contaminate surface waters.

  6. Re:Entropy by riverat1 · · Score: 2

    At the rate humans are currently using energy it would have no effect. This development is just tapping residual heat off the magma chamber below Newberry Volcano so it would have no effect other than perhaps slowing down the timing of the next eruption a bit.

  7. Re:1 divided by 3 by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Creating three reservoir out of one well will mean one thing - each reservoir will have less than one third the potential power of that one well.

    Damn, if only you'd been around to tell the scientists this before they wasted their time.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's actually a lot more complicated and non-linear than that, that these guys know what they're doing, and the article just doesn't go into quite enough detail.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  8. Re:Isn't this slightly evil to? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There really is almost no risk this will contaminate anyone's drinking water. No one lives near the well and it's a sparsely populated area in general. The well they are drilling is over 6,000 feet deep in to dry rock. The water they inject will be used in a closed cycle so it's not released to contaminate surface waters.

    The point we're making is that everything you (and others) are saying is the exact same type of thing the oil companies said about fracking. But since the hydrocarbon waste material we're pumping down and spreading around is described as "Recycled" and "Dissipated", and because it's for a "clean" type of energy, the apologists are out in force.

    It's just amusing watching the exact same people who bitch about fracking saying "Trust us, nobody will get hurt".

  9. Re:Conversation about science? by symbolset · · Score: 2

    Enhanced Geothermal energy has the potential to replace almost all US baseload electricity generation except hydro and serves as an excellent counterpoint to wind and PV. Total system levelized costs are overall are quite low - as low as coal, nuclear; some types of natural gas are cheaper now but not the more eco-friendly sort. It requires no fuel so fuel supply cost issues are of no concern, nor a national security or global policy risk. There is no gas pipeline that might rupture and burn down an entire neighborhood. There are no nuclear proliferation issues. It's a closed loop and does not generate CO2, nor toxic coal ash, nor spent nuclear fuel to be rid of. There is no risk that it will blow up. The energy driver is residual fission occurring in the Earth's core (80%) that is in no danger of being depleted ever. The plants themselves can be unobtrusive and small.

    It has utility almost everywhere in the world, as the only question is really how deep you must drill to get to the hot rock. There is hot rock under everywhere. Some of it is impractical to reach right now though. It is of most economical use notably on the "ring of fire" - the western edge of North and South America, the Eastern edge of Asia. And Iceland of course, where they are eagerly exploiting the resource already - 87% of building heating and 26% of electrical energy from this source. Shoot in Iceland it's so cheap and plentiful they defrost streets and sidewalks with it - even a beach.

    The problem is that the costs are all up front. It takes years to dig the hole, so a long lag time between starting the investment and yielding a return. You have to drill the hole, buy the generators, build the plants and so on before you get the first watt-hour. After that it's free power, essentially forever. Every 30 years you have to refurbish or replace the turbines. Once a year the gear has to be inspected. Somebody's got to man the gate to keep kids from spraypainting the condenser. That's about it.

    It is the lack of a need for ongoing fuel supply that is perhaps the problem. Over the lifespan of an electrical plant the ongoing revenues from providing its fuel is a bigger motivator for the fuel supplier than the plant operator. The fuel costs more than the plant. Naturally fuel providers are going to be opposed to this radical notion of continuously generating baseload power for the whole life of the plant without paying them money. It's bad for jobs.

    As for natural gas being cheaper, this is true but it may not always be true. LNG is also useful for powering internal combustion engines and may become a valuable export to improve our balance of trade or make us less dependent on other forms of portable energy import. It's a resource with global demand and that global demand introduces the risk that market rates for the fuel may go up. This portability factor makes the use of natural gas in generating electricity when you don't have to a waste of a valuable resource better used another way.

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