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NASA Awards Contract To Bigelow Aerospace For Inflatable ISS Module

cylonlover writes "NASA has announced that it has awarded a $17.8 million contract to Bigelow Aerospace to provide the International Space Station with an inflatable module. Details of the award will be discussed by NASA Deputy Administrator Lori Garver and Bigelow Aerospace President Robert Bigelow at a press conference on January 16 at the Bigelow Aerospace facilities in North Las Vegas. However, based on previous talks, it's likely that the module in question could be the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM)."

132 comments

  1. Begelow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Manwhore Enterprises?

    1. Re:Begelow? by gabereiser · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought the same thing when I first glaced at the article... I thought to myself, Deuce Bigelow, Male Gigolo, In Space.... eeewwwwwww.

  2. Aw Yeah! by p0p0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bouncy Castle INNNNN SPAAACE!

    1. Re:Aw Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a huge bitch!

    2. Re:Aw Yeah! by prefec2 · · Score: 2

      And the best thing. You are inside the castle and not on top of it.

    3. Re:Aw Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We might as well give our astronauts a Moon Bounce on the ISS. I mean, it's not like they're going to bounce on the actual Moon anytime soon.

    4. Re:Aw Yeah! by davester666 · · Score: 1
      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  3. I wonder who first thought of it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bigelow got their tech from NASA, because NASA didn't want to pay to move it forward. So, Bigelow makes it usable, NASA buys it back.

    1. Re:I wonder who first thought of it.... by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Not that different from a kind of stupidity that's currently going rampant in the corporate sector.

    2. Re:I wonder who first thought of it.... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Fixing costs isn't stupidity - it's good business. NASA gets the technology for $17.8 million, per the contract. If the technology costs more than expected to develop, the extra cost probably falls on Bigelow rather than taxpayers. Meanwhile, NASA's management and researchers can focus on other things that may have less commercial application, so they won't be developed without government support.

      One of NASA's goals is to ensure that space technology continues to advance. It's not required to do all the work itself.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    3. Re:I wonder who first thought of it.... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Is this really a fixed cost contract?

      It seems everyday you hear about government spending more and more for over runs and other bullshit some company is ripping them off for.

    4. Re:I wonder who first thought of it.... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      I lack the ambition to actually verify this one, but my experience with government contracts is that the vast majority are fixed-cost, same as any normal business transaction. Those that aren't usually have some percentage of additional cost applied, so the company will be absorbing most of the cost of overruns. I've yet to personally see a contract that says the government pays 100% for all cost overruns, but I do assume they exist.

      Keep in mind that for every event that makes it to the news as a scandal, there's a few million mundane events that go perfectly as they should.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    5. Re:I wonder who first thought of it.... by Teancum · · Score: 1

      In this case with Bigelow, yes it is a fixed price contract. Indeed I am wondering a bit about the contract authority because the amount NASA is paying for this module is so miniscule that I'm not even sure it is from appropriations funding. Hell, this amount of $17 million is usually enough to fund just the RFP (request for proposals) for a "paper study" for some future high end project of this scale.

      If you want to see some projects to make you turn white, just look at the James Webb Telescope or the SLS (also called "Senate Launch System") where billions are being spent every year for things that will never even make the journey into space. In this case, NASA is getting a completed module for that paltry price of just a few million (not even billion) dollars. It is going to cost more to fly this into space even if they use a low cost provider like SpaceX.

  4. Re:uuh by radiumsoup · · Score: 5, Insightful

    they've had an inflatable module on orbit for something like 4 years - it's pretty well proven, and much cheaper to put into orbit than fixed-side vehicles. (And as for the idea that something might pop it, if debris is going to poke a hole in a vehicle at *orbital speeds*, it's going to go through kevlar just as easy as it's going to go through the metal the existing space station components are made of.)

  5. So where do they by rossdee · · Score: 1, Interesting

    So where do they get the air to inflate it?

    they'd better have a puncture repair kit too

    1. Re:So where do they by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll get the astronauts to blow it up. Astronauts breath out because they don't need that air.

    2. Re:So where do they by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once attached to the ISS, they will inflate it with astronaut farts.

    3. Re:So where do they by slim · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. Anyone who's done a CESA while learning to dive, knows you can basically exhale forever as you go from low to high pressure.

    4. Re:So where do they by slim · · Score: 1

      Er, high to low pressure.

    5. Re:So where do they by Jawnn · · Score: 1, Troll

      So where do they get the air to inflate it?

      If the answers to this question is not patently obvious to you, turn in your geek card and hang your head in shame.

    6. Re:So where do they by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      So where do they get the air to inflate it?

      Duh. An astronaut blows it up. Those guys all have good lungs.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    7. Re:So where do they by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Just fill it with vacuum. There's plenty of it orbiting our planet. Duh.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    8. Re:So where do they by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      So where do they get the air to inflate it?

      From a tank of compressed air. (Seriously, how is this even a question?)
       

      they'd better have a puncture repair kit too

      Presumably they will, but the walls of a module of this type are pretty thick (think car tire, not party balloon), there's multiples layers, and additional micrometeorite and debris shielding on top of that.

    9. Re:So where do they by asm2750 · · Score: 1

      They get it from the US congress.

    10. Re:So where do they by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Presumably they will, but the walls of a module of this type are pretty thick (think car tire, not party balloon)

      Think six inches, not car tire.

      And material stronger than kevlar, not vulcanized rubber.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:So where do they by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liquid nitrogen/oxygen would be the most space efficient method (~17 ft2), though it might pose some safety/release issues. In all likelihood they would send up a bunch (~20 1'x4') of high pressure carbon fiber cylinders. Its not an issue when you're launching 20,000 kg + anyways

  6. Re:uuh by slim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you're thinking about the fragility of flexible walls, Wikipedia says:

    Bigelow Aerospace anticipates that its inflatable modules will be more durable than rigid modules.[13] This is partially due to the company's use of several layers of vectran, a material twice as strong as kevlar, and also because, in theory, flexible walls should be able to sustain micrometeoroid impacts better than rigid walls. In ground-based testing, micrometeoroids capable of puncturing standard ISS module materials penetrated only about half-way through the Bigelow skin. Operations director Mike Gold commented that Bigelow modules also wouldn't suffer from the same local shattering problems likely with metallic modules. This could provide as much as 24 hours to remedy punctures in comparison to the more serious results of standard ISS skin micrometeoroid damage.

    I'm curious about pressure though. In the vacuum of space, if it's inflated to human-habitable pressures, won't the pressure difference between inside and outside put an enormous strain on the fabric?

  7. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what could possibly go wrong

    Plenty. It's when they get it up there and suddenly remember there's no air in space.

    Alternatively, they could fill it with helium and float it up, but without a decent puncture repair kit one false move and it's a mars orbit in moments!

  8. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Won't be more than 15 PSI.

    Which isn't that high - not even as high as a tire (35-40 PSI)

  9. Re:uuh by GreenTech11 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't doubt the science behind the concept, and your point about debris being able to puncture the exterior no matter what is a good one. I'm curious about the potential psychological impact of the module. Even if it's completely irrational (and the FA says non-rigid exteriors are better able to withstand a micrometeor), I can't help but feel that if I was up in the ISS, I'd want a solid metal wall, rather than an inflatable fabric one.

    Having said that, being able to more than double the size, and presumably living space, of the ISS would probably do a great deal of good psychologically. Not to mention the fact that people who choose to go on missions to the ISS must have a certain amount of crazy to begin with, so probably wont care in the same way an ordinary mortal such as myself would.

    The next question of course is how to get it up there? It's about 10x more than the maximum payload of either the Dragon or Soyuz rockets...

    --
    Laughter is the best medicine, except if you have a broken rib.
  10. Re:uuh by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

    From Wiki. "The atmosphere on board the ISS is similar to the Earth's.Normal air pressure on the ISS is 101.3 kPa (14.7 psi);[139] the same as at sea level on Earth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station
    Should be fine. Not too sure if would be ok 5-10m below sea; but it would really have gone wrong before that. So they may not build in any crushing force resistance at all.

  11. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not Really. The atmospheric pressure is ~14psi. Duplicating it on the ground just blow somthing up a baloon to 28psi. Still relatively low pressure.

    Someone please correct me, it I totally screwed that up.

  12. WRONG by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    This is 17 million for the study. More importantly, beam will NOT be 65 tonnes. Heck, we have nothing that can take it up since the days of the saturn V. It is a SMALL closet that will weigh under 7 tonnes.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:WRONG by wiggles · · Score: 1

      Source for that?

      Not that I doubt you, but I'd like to read more...

    2. Re:WRONG by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      How much return of investment is the world getting from the ISS? Is it even close to the cost of maintaining it? If they did find some huge payoff, what would the rest of the world do, if Russia sent three Russian up there to kick off all non-Russian? The same Russians who probably instigated the problems in Georgia and used that as an excuse to intervene. I am just curious since there must be a reason why they want to expand it. I believe there is only 7 years left so if it takes another 2 years to get it up there, its would be useful for less than 5 years.

    3. Re:WRONG by Teancum · · Score: 1

      This announcement seems to be pretty clear that the $18 million (give or take with some change) is for the module and not merely a study. Yeah, this is causing my head to scratch too. I would think this amount is just throat clearing for a typical NASA project that would provide a stack of power point presentations suggesting a module in the future, but I don't see anywhere in the announcement that this is for a study but rather for actual flying hardware.

      Owing to the fact that I don't know of any launcher that could put anything like an ISS module into space (not even a reusable Falcon 9) for that price, it does seem rather odd. I hope the details of what that money will be used for is discussed at the press conference. If you have another source suggesting this is just a paper study with no flying hardware, I would be interested in seeing that source.

    4. Re:WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "More importantly, beam will NOT be 65 tonnes"

      That much seems obvious, but where is it being suggested that this will be a "SMALL closet that will weigh under 7 tonnes."? If I had to wager I would say that it will likely be a BA330, or about 330 m3 (ISS is currently 837 M3). Bigelow was already planning to launch such a module, having it attached to ISS would likely be a win/win for them (prestige/incoming funds). While a BA 2100 would have been nice, it would have been difficult for NASA to foot the bill for its construction and launch. Launching a BA 2100 would either require a modified Falcon Heavy, or an SLS flight (assuming they ever make that thing work).

    5. Re:WRONG by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      NASA will likely select a launch vehicle down the road and fund it separately. Being the ISS, it's possible that they will split the module cost with international partners, and then fund the rocket from their budget. Or one of many other options. Bigelow doesn't have their own rocket program so it wouldn't make sense to roll the launch vehicle into the same invoice.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    6. Re:WRONG by Teancum · · Score: 1

      You have got to admit though that if this $18 million is for production space hardware, that is pretty damn cheap. You would be hard pressed to get an individual NASA spacesuit for that price. I would dare say that the cost of preparing meals for the astronauts is pretty close to that figure on an annual basis. Considering that the ISS cost well more than $100 billion to be put into the sky in the first place, this amount of money is merely a rounding error for most NASA projects. It would even be a reasonable sum of money for setting up the catering for VIPs and the press at a shuttle launch. Perhaps that is a bit lavish but it is on that order of expenses we are talking about and not some major new project that has senators complaining that the money isn't being spent in their state.

    7. Re:WRONG by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I suspect its $18M for a *flyable* module delivered to the launch pad, not for actually getting it to the ISS. Which isn't too shabby for what's basically a big balloon and maybe some life support systems in the central column.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    8. Re:WRONG by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Apparently, this story is shifting. Few are really certain if the 17M is for hardware or not. However, Parabalic seems to have the right attitude: Money going towards BEAM, but not sure what/where.

      I will say that 17M would be below the cost of this module. However, it would also let bigelow get his lines going so that in 2015, he could start putting up a space station.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    9. Re:WRONG by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Lets wait and see what happens on Weds. However, I agree with you that it would appear to be so. And actually, I have seen multiple links that said that it was for studies on it, not for the hardware. But, I am sure that you have seen nasa space flight is now saying otherwise ( i saw it after I posted here).

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    10. Re:WRONG by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      the expansion is nothing. It is a small closet. It is so that NASA can test things on it. What is interesting is that BA has had 2 coffin-sizes in orbits for a number of years. So, the fabric works. Now, time to test other parts.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    11. Re:WRONG by Teancum · · Score: 1

      If this does turn out to be the "list price" for a module like this, it will literally blow away the traditional aerospace companies like Boeing and Northrop-Grumman. I really don't know for certain, and as you have said... we will find out on Wednesday. I'm sure that some reporter will ask this very question.

      If this turns into the price for a study, the amount seems to be much more typical. The thing is that Bigelow knows how to make this stuff so I fail to see what a study might actually accomplish.... unless this is the first payment of a much larger project. Even that seems to be a little strange.

    12. Re:WRONG by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Actually, this will be a small module. Apparently, they are looking at sending it up in the extended trunk of a dragon. The trunk has a length of over 4 M (~15'), and something like 30 m^3 volume. As such, they might be able to send this up next year in one of the scheduled dragons.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    13. Re:WRONG by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      BEAM was never going to be a BA-330. It was to be a bit bigger than the 2 coffins that are in space now.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    14. Re:WRONG by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Source? The article is leaning towards some absurdly huge prototype thing.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    15. Re:WRONG by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I know what was said in the article. It was a HORRIBLE article.
      But think about it. There are no launchers today that can launch more than 21 tonnes. Delta IV heavy is the largest going today.
      And yet, they are claiming that it would be 65 tonnes within 2 years? The author in this article is messing up all sorts of facts.
      What is really missing is, that this can NOT be assembled in space. These are single units, i.e. it must be launched as one unit. here you go.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  13. Re:uuh by slim · · Score: 1

    Mm, but a tyre has 15 PSI (1 standard atmosphere) on the outside to counteract the 35 PSI on the inside.

    This'll have 15 PSI on the inside, close to zero on the outside.

    But I guess (can anyone confirm) that the strain on the skin is proportional to internal pressure minus external pressure, so I take your point that we're not talking massive numbers here.

  14. Re:uuh by vlm · · Score: 1

    yeah that would be 28 psi absolute, or 14 psi gauge. Unless you were testing it about 30 ft under water, which would probably be a great idea for leak detection.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  15. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And as for the idea that something might pop it, if debris is going to poke a hole in a vehicle at *orbital speeds*, it's going to go through kevlar just as easy as it's going to go through the metal the existing space station components are made of.

    True, as far as poking goes, and microscopic holes are not cause of immediate catastrophic failure, but there are still differences in how different type materials perform. Debris particle tangentially scratching the surface of a module might rip inflatable one wide open.

  16. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would it be high pressure?

    as below,,.. 15 PSI probably at most, It could be a lot less though, decrease the oxygen ppm by half and it can be 7 PSI, the pressure is not so important as maintaining the oxygen PPM as far as humans are concerned.

  17. Re:uuh by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

    I'm curious about pressure though. In the vacuum of space, if it's inflated to human-habitable pressures, won't the pressure difference between inside and outside put an enormous strain on the fabric?

    Note that the Genesis testbeds have been in orbit for years with no problems.

    Admittedly, Genesis was only inflated to 10 psi or so, and the ISS is pressurized to 14.7psi. But 14.7 psi is, presumably, well within the design specs of the module, since it was originally designed to handle a standard atmosphere of internal pressure.

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  18. Re:uuh by vlm · · Score: 0

    Nobody else mentioned vibration and oscillation? Not a huge problem if you're using as a passive warehouse but giant fans blowing life support air are going to make the thing kinda floppy all the time.

    I think this would be an interesting science experiment, both the biology of "is a space sickness adjusted human vulnerable to wobbly walls" and the science experiment of repetitive strain failure modes of flex materials (the skin doesn't bend twice, once when made and once when inflated in space, it bends at say 1 Hz continuous while deployed if the structure wobbles. Also the economic experiment where if you have to go to expensive effort for vibration proof motors and all, vs the cost of just boosting a heavier traditional tin can.

    There are also interesting impact and torque issues. So if you shove the middle of a wall with your shoulder (or worse) can it snap off an airlock 50 feet away, whereas unpressurized tin can would just bend?

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  19. PSI Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Won't be more than 15 PSI. Which isn't that high - not even as high as a tire (35-40 PSI)

    Mm, but a tyre has 15 PSI (1 standard atmosphere) on the outside to counteract the 35 PSI on the inside.

    Tire pressure measurements are relative, not absolute. So "35-40" PSI tire pressure means 35-40 PSI higher than atmospheric pressure

    1. Re:PSI Re:uuh by slim · · Score: 1

      Did not know that, but it makes sense now that you point it out - how would a tyre pressure gauge measure absolute pressure?

      Thanks.

    2. Re:PSI Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By containing little compartment at vacuum.... which they don't.

      But I still want one. :)

    3. Re:PSI Re:uuh by Teancum · · Score: 2

      Simple..... put the pressure gauge in a vacuum or use a pretty hard vacuum for comparison.

      That is pretty much what would need to be done in a laboratory setting anyway.

      For spacecraft, it really isn't that big of a deal compared to submarines, that need to be dealing with substantially larger pressure differences even if they go down just a couple hundred feet. Also, in a submarine they are worried about being crushed and need all sorts of structural support to keep that crushing from happening as opposed to a spacecraft that merely needs to hold together and not go flying off into a thousand pieces.

  20. Re:uuh by vlm · · Score: 2

    I'm curious about the potential psychological impact of the module

    You went off on a materials science tangent, I'm gonna go on the impact of "lets put him in the rubber room" jokes. "I heard the next supply ship has straitjackets". I suppose latex pr0n jokes too.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  21. Dr. Schlock, they have your location... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...Torg's team will be arriving shortly. Suggest you evacuate using the DFA.

    1. Re:Dr. Schlock, they have your location... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am SO glad that someone posted a Sluggy.com reference. Thank-you.

  22. Balloon in space? by lapm · · Score: 1

    Ok so it might be viable, but somehow i expect them having tons of trouble convince astronauts thats its safe...

  23. Use your heads NASA by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1, Funny

    There is no inflatable product on the market today that does not eventually develop a leak or burst. Air mattresses, tires, dolls...

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
    1. Re:Use your heads NASA by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 3, Funny

      Do you want to talk about it?

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    2. Re:Use your heads NASA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's very different though. Nothing you and I buy started with a CFO in a room with a materials engineer, who was told, "Imagine you have unlimited money, how would you design this?" "Now imagine you had 15 million dollars. What would you change?"

      If that had happened at Hasbro, my water wings would still be puffy.

    3. Re:Use your heads NASA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > There is no inflatable product on the market today that does not eventually develop a leak or burst. Air mattresses, tires, dolls...

      Why would anyone offer a product that doesnt fail eventually ?
      Apparantly there is not enough profit in selling durable products.

    4. Re:Use your heads NASA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe tests have shown that inflatable station hulls are MUCH more resilient than standard aluminum hulls. Not only are they thicker, but they are made up of multiple layers of kevlar, Nomex, Combitherm & Mylar which have the effect of breaking up most micrometeorites before they can reach the inner layers. Even if something did breach all of the layers the fix would be pretty simple, cut away the inner layer of Nomex, apply some type of sealing/glue compound and slap down an appropriately sized section of Combitherm.

    5. Re:Use your heads NASA by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sure there is. And you can in fact buy durable versions of most products if you're willing to pay 5-10x as much, because building something durable is a lot more expensive than building it cheap, especially since they don't benefit much from economies of scale because most people would rather buy a new $10 widget every year than a $50 widget that will last 10 years.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  24. Re:uuh by vlm · · Score: 2, Informative

    It could be a lot less though, decrease the oxygen ppm by half and it can be 7 PSI, the pressure is not so important as maintaining the oxygen PPM as far as humans are concerned.

    See apollo 1 fire. In orbit a 4 psi ppO2 fire is just a 4 psi ppO2 fire, doesn't matter much. But on the ground they like to pump that dude up to 4 psi over ambient to test for leaks before launch, especially hatch leaks. So you traditionally end up in 20 psi ppO2 and the slightest spark and "woosh" which is pretty much a summary of how everyone got killed in Apollo 1. Now sea level air means you have a ppO2 regulator so you leak test by pumping up to 20 psi absolute, of which most of the extra pressure will be mostly harmless N2.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  25. Re:uuh by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

    There are lots of layers to avoid that.

  26. Re:uuh by artfulshrapnel · · Score: 2

    As others said, the difference between earth pressure and space pressure really isn't that great. 15 PSI differential is about the same as your car tires, and there are inflatable boats in current use that sustain even more. Pressurized diving suits regularly sustain pressure many dozens of times greater than this.

    To (likely mis)quote Futurama:
    "We're going deep under the ocean, being subjected to thousands of atmospheres of pressure!"
    "How much can the ship handle?"
    "Well given that it's a spaceship, anywhere from zero to one."

  27. Re:uuh by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 2

    Famous last words.....

  28. Re:uuh by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

    Mm, but a tyre has 15 PSI (1 standard atmosphere) on the outside to counteract the 35 PSI on the inside.

    This'll have 15 PSI on the inside, close to zero on the outside.

    Accepting your numbers as valid (they aren't - the 35 psi in your tires is relative to atmospheric pressure, not absolute), that means a pressure differential on this module of 15 psi, as opposed to the 20 psi pressure differential on the tire.

    Do you see a lot of tires exploding due to the pressure differential where you live?

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  29. Re:uuh by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

    Who said these famous last words?

    This structure is more resistant to micrometeorite impacts than the other ISS modules. The penetrate less and are made of well known materials. These are fabrics designed for their rip resistance, because of that they are used in ropes, rigging for ships and gunshot/stab resistant vests.

    One of these units has already been in space for years for testing purposes.

  30. Re:uuh by falcon5768 · · Score: 1

    Not much as this is proven technology that not only they but NASA was working on in the 60's. The simple fact is at orbital velocities, there is nothing thats really going to stop anything nasty from going through the sides of something, you have little further to look than some of the damage done to the shuttles and Mir by space debris.

    --

    "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

  31. Re:uuh by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think this would be an interesting science experiment, both the biology of "is a space sickness adjusted human vulnerable to wobbly walls" and the science experiment of repetitive strain failure modes of flex materials (the skin doesn't bend twice, once when made and once when inflated in space, it bends at say 1 Hz continuous while deployed if the structure wobbles.

    As far as the repetitive strain failure goes, there have been two testbeds of the inflatable module in space for five or so years each, neither of which failed that way.

    And given the pressure differential involved, I suspect that the walls would seem as rigid as steel - 15cm thick, supported by 14.7psi (yes, I'm mixing measurement systems shamelessly) internal pressure isn't going to allow much room for "wobbly walls"....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  32. Re:uuh by hackertourist · · Score: 1

    ISS modules are protected by aluminium shields. The meteorite will hit this shield, punch through it but disintegrate in the process so it won't penetrate the module wall. They could flat-pack a set of shields alongside the inflatable module for launch.

  33. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's what she said!

    (and now I have twins... Awe, who am I kidding, I'm reading and posting on slashdot)

  34. Congrats Bigelow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a good step forward, and something that has been a long-time in coming. Good job Bigelow!
    Good engineering really should win out, and this stuff really does seem to be just better.

  35. Balloon vulnerability is fixable by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    Make the balloon a 2-layered affair with a few feet of air space. Then you fill that space with thousands of small floating balloons whose interiors are slightly sticky. Meteorite hits. Small balloons immediately travel to where the air is leaking out, burst, and plug the hole with a bunch of goopy rubber until someone (or some robot) can go outside once a month or so and put on maintenance patches.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    1. Re:Balloon vulnerability is fixable by sconeu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Someone has been reading his Heinlein. Gentlemen, Be Seated.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  36. Re:uuh by fatphil · · Score: 2

    These fabrics are designed specifically to have good strain resistance under tension (which is how they'd be inflated in the near vaccum of space). It's hitting their design sweet spot.

    --
    Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  37. Who? White Star Line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I believe it was the White Star Line.

  38. Re:uuh by Teancum · · Score: 2

    The analogy to flat-pack furniture is spot on with what is happening here. This isn't just something that you "add water and watch it grow", it will be taking some assembly once the whole things is put up into orbit and in fact a sort of "flat-pack" system simply to squeeze everything into the payload faring. The main advantage of this style of module is that it ultimately has a whole bunch more volume, so station design can be more compact rather than having everything much more spread out.... as is the case with the rest of the ISS modules. There will be many service flights to simply put things into this module.... and they will be able to add other stuff on the outside.

    You sort of miss the point though that the shielding is already part of the design of this system. The only difference is that it uses a fabric shielding rather than something metalic..... so why would the astronauts need to add more? If it becomes a problem, it can be repaired.

  39. Much better than existing technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bigelow didn't just invent this stuff out of the blue. This technology was originally developed by NASA and was called Transhab. It was tested extensively and has considerable amount of redundancy in the many layers incorporated into the design. In almost all respects it outperforms the rigid modules currently used in the ISS. The only reason that this isn't being used already is because funding for the project was cut and NASA sold the technology to Bigelow. In a way it was a fortuitous thing because now they can get the technology they already wanted, and trust, without the cost of continued development. It has been commoditized (as much as space stuff can be a commodity.)

  40. Re:Who? White Star Line? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

    They did not have lots of layers.
    They had many compartments, which do not address a large continuous tear.

    Good effort though.

  41. Not New Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The design is essentially the recycling of old NASA concepts:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransHab

    The multi-layer design is highly effectively again MMOD impacts, better than most of the shielding currently on ISS.

    1. Re:Not New Technology by Teancum · · Score: 1

      It isn't even recycling the TransHab concept. Simply put, it **IS** the TransHab concept, just rebranded. Robert Bigelow saw the TransHab technology languishing and being neglected with no chance to actually fly into space in spite of a module actually built and crated up ready to fly on the Space Shuttle. After talking to a bunch of folks at NASA, hiring his own engineers to take a look at the technology and be able to understand the engineering drawings for a few minor tweaks and improvements, he spend his own money (not tax dollars) to launch not one but two of these spacecraft into orbit. Since American companies weren't up to the task at the time (SpaceX was still splashing the Falcon 1 into the Pacific Ocean when all of this was going on) he decided to hire the Russians instead.

      Oh.... those space stations are still in orbit and still functioning with even some atmospheric reserves. The only thing missing from those space stations is really a good airlock, but otherwise people could have survived living in them for awhile. Bigelow Aerospace not only has the idea, they've built them and put them into orbit. Of the major "new space" players, Robert Bigelow is somebody who knows what the hell is going on and the credibility to pull this off.

      Dissing this as simply recycling the concept is showing cluelessness about how Robert Bigelow even got this technology in the first place.

    2. Re:Not New Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you're correct that this technology is TransHab, I think you're painting Bigelow incorrectly. Bigelow Aerospace was founded in 1998, and TransHab was not killed by congress until 1999. The bill that killed it included language which explicitly stated NASA could license the technology,which Bigelow Aerospace did in short order. It's only speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if the elusive billionaire didn't have something to do with engineering access to the TransHab technology for his needs, which he now gets to sell back to the taxpayers. Yes, TransHab project had budget and timing issues, like many similar projects. And yes, Bigelow has continued to develop the technology. Just some food for thought.

    3. Re:Not New Technology by Teancum · · Score: 1

      You are getting far too conspiratorial here. No, it wasn't Robert Bigelow who "engineered" the defeat of TransHab from NASA appropriation bills. It was mainly a bunch of members of congress that wanted to simply kill the International Space Station altogether and were trying one little piece at a time, where the TransHab was seen as a ripe target because it was so different from the other modules.

      Yes, your speculation is completely misplaced. As you've pointed out, this is something that happened over a decade ago, and in fact this particular contract is the first time that NASA has even hinted that they might be interested in actually purchasing any equipment from Bigelow. If this was a more traditional scalping of the American taxpayer, it would be much more like the Liberty rocket that is essentially a rebranded Ares I and put forward explicitly to scrape out some money from NASA.

      Bigelow Aerospace hasn't even really tried to go after the government space market at all, although they've been in a bit of a bind because they simply lack a reliable launcher that isn't based in Russia or Kazakhstan. One thing Robert Bigelow simply didn't even want to get into was the whole space launcher business... something that already has plenty of companies working to try and make cheaper transportation into orbit. If he could send astronauts into space tomorrow, he would already be launching these space stations completely without tax dollars of any kind. SpaceX says they will be able to send astronauts sometime in 2015... which is when the real fireworks is going to begin.

  42. TransHab by dpilot · · Score: 2

    The way I heard it, the TransHab (inflatable module) had some really serious enemies in Congress. That is, enemies to the tune that the NASA budget was written to explicitly forbid any money for TransHab development. So NASA sold what they had to Bigelow, since they were legally forbidden to do anything else with it. (Just checked Wikipedia, and there is at least some level of confirmation for this.)

    Bigelow has 2 TransHab-based test articles in orbit. Last I heard, they were planning their own "Space Hotel." I wonder what they'd charge for "Hundred Mile High" certificates, apart from the launch and on-orbit fees.

    Interestingly, everything I'd see on TransHab had the floors perpendicular to the axis. The photos in TFA have the floors parallel to the axis.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  43. Re:uuh by Teancum · · Score: 1

    yeah that would be 28 psi absolute, or 14 psi gauge. Unless you were testing it about 30 ft under water, which would probably be a great idea for leak detection.

    Which is one of the reasons why Bigelow Aerospace has one of the largest swimming pools in Las Vegas (and that is saying a whole lot by itself). They intend to do not only underwater testing of these modules (or at least the design) before it goes up, but even provide an opportunity for astronauts to get up close and used to servicing the vehicle here on the Earth in a "neutral buoyancy simulator" (using scuba tanks to simulate EVAs).

  44. Re:uuh by dpilot · · Score: 2

    psychology....

    Have you seen any of the videos sent back from the ISS? From what the videos show, that thing is basically a maze of tunnels. There are a few (tiny) "rooms" off to the side, the cupola being the most notable and most different. (and biggest?) What's the long-term psychological impact of living in a "warren", and how great would the benefit be of having some real rooms?

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  45. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is nothing currently flying that has the payload capacity for this:

    Delta IV Heavy can do about 23,000 kg
    Arianne 5 can do about 21,000 kg
    Shuttle's cargo capacity was around 24,000 kg, so it would have been useless too.

    The planned Falcon Heavy is only for 55,000 kg or so, so still short.
    The planned NASA space launch system calls for this type of capability.

    Anyone got a spare Saturn V? That'll do it.

  46. Re:uuh by slinches · · Score: 1

    But I guess (can anyone confirm) that the strain on the skin is proportional to internal pressure minus external pressure

    Yes, strain and load are proportional to the pressure (force = pressure * area). The difficulty comes in due to the area being proportional to the square of the radius. This is why tires can handle 35-65 psi and scuba tanks are able to hold 3000 psi while commercial aircraft can be damaged by the relatively small (~8-9psi) cabin pressures. Aloha Airlines Flight 243 is one example and there are several more here.

    The loads the skin of these Bigelow Aerospace modules must carry are very large and it isn't a trivial engineering problem to make something that is strong enough to handle the pressure but light enough to launch into space.

    Assuming 14psi, the axial pressure loads in the two larger BA modules are:
    BA330, 22ft diameter - 760,000 lbs
    BA2100, 41ft diameter - 2.7 million lbs

    --
    Knowledge Brings Fear
  47. you get to use 100% of volume in micro-gravity by peter303 · · Score: 1

    On earth 6 foot ceiling is not all that much different than a 20-foot ceiling, because you arent going to use much of that space above 6 feet. But in micro-gravity you any of the six walls becomes a floor, thereby allowing you to use the entire volume. Less claustophobic in that case.

    1. Re:you get to use 100% of volume in micro-gravity by dpilot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As one who happens to be 6'4", I'll say that on Earth a 6 foot ceiling is very different from a 20 foot ceiling. I'm not normally claustrophobic, but every now and then I just like to have some space around me. Skylab was interesting, in that respect, including the open framework floors.

      Never having been in microgravity I can't tell how I'd respond, if being in a space 6'x6'x tens of feet would be sufficient for me, when I'm capable of moving in any of those dimensions.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  48. Re:uuh by Golddess · · Score: 1

    I can't help but feel that if I was up in the ISS, I'd want a solid metal wall, rather than an inflatable fabric one.

    Agreed, though my (irrational) reasoning regards putting a sealed, pressurized object into a vacuum. Can it be done? Of course! Would I feel just as nervous about being in a space suit? While I cannot say for certain, I do not think so. But for some reason, thinking about being inside a balloon that isn't human-shaped leaves me feeling a little uneasy.

    --
    "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  49. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, you blow it up to 14 PSI. They blow it up much higher pressure for leak tests because the fabric can take A LOT more than 1 atmosphere.

    Learn how your pressure gauge works. Why do you should check your tire pressure when you go from ground level up into the high mountains (or vice-versa)? Pressure is *ALWAYS* relative, and not just absolute but partial pressure. Partial pressure is why you can breathe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_pressure

  50. Re:uuh by Firethorn · · Score: 2

    People live in tents with little problem, and the walls of these modules are rather high tech no matter what. Plus, when you fill it up to something resembling sea level(14.7 psi), you're going to have a structure that's about as stiff as the thin aluminum walls of a solid structure. They're almost certainly stronger - we have much better tensile strength materials than flexural strength. A big tube of aluminum will end up flexing on it's own, probably more than the inflated module.

    For a real world example, many car tires are only inflated to 30 psi. So consider how stiff that tire is at less than 10% more than the difference between vacuum and the module. Pay attention to the thinner wall - not the tread, of course.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  51. Even simpler PSI gauge by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    Given how cheaply most gauges are built, I'd simply say 'put the gauge markings assuming that the outside is at 14.7 PSI, sea level'.

    But them being relative makes sense. You'd fill your vehicle up in Denver(mile high city) with a little less absolute pressure than in Florida, but that wouldn't matter much as there would be less air pressure trying to collapse them.

    Also, if a rubber tire can withstand 90+ PSI*, I have no problems believing that an advanced hybrid using fibers tougher than kevlar can hold 14.7 PSI without problem.

    *Going by explode point, not daily use, though I know of rubber tires

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
    1. Re:Even simpler PSI gauge by Teancum · · Score: 2

      I've seen bicycle tires that have 90+ PSI with no problem and I have some automobile on my car (admittedly non-standard) that have a normal pressure rating of 70 PSI that were even able to maintain that pressure with "foreign objects" inside of the tire for a prolonged period of time (long enough to get it repaired without even changing the tire and just "filling up" the tire with air before driving a dozen miles to the tire store).

  52. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's also likely they'll have stop-leak infused between the layers of the structural fabric laminate. So you don't have to worry too much if something small does manage to poke a hole in it. Self sealing tech has been around for quite a while anyways, so there's not much reason why it shouldn't work in this particular application.

  53. How to get it up by Su27K · · Score: 1

    It won't be like Bigelow BA 2100, they're looking for an ISS module, not another ISS. Other sources say the module will only be about 1 ton.

  54. Jumping for jou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I imagine there are some astronauts down the pipeline jumping for joy at the possibility. Skylab was the only station with a decent amount of internal space, and that burnt up 30 years ago. While I doubt this will be one of the larger Bigelow components (BA 2100, 4 DECKS! @65,000 kg) I bet it'll add a significant amount of space to the station. Hopefully they don't have any trouble funding a launch vehicle for it, ~$18 million is chump change for increasing the stations livable area by at least 35%.

  55. Re:uuh by Golddess · · Score: 1

    I think the problem is that some people (myself included) thought that the proper way to compare it is interior pressure / exterior pressure. But from the comments, it sounds like interior pressure - exterior pressure is the correct way.

    --
    "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  56. Inflatable spaceships? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember, in space, no one can hear you leak.

  57. Pressure and explosion by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    I was looking around, it turns out that the inflatables produced by Bigelow have a 15 cm thick skin, and while I'm not finding any source, I seem to remember them inflating one up to 50+ PSI on the ground as part of some test and not having a problem.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  58. Pressure works different than that by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    You're right, total pressure depends on the surface area, but when it comes to containing gas pressure, size matters less than you think.

    You could make an aircraft that could hold the pressure of a scuba tank; but it'd be too heavy. A scuba tank is a LOT heavier for the surface area than a plane, and a plane needs to withstand many different stresses than the tank.

    If you're making a tank, small or large the gauge of steel needed for the pressure remains about the same for the given pressure. Larger tanks will need more support to withstand the stress of gravity - which isn't perfectly proportional, but that's not a problem in space.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  59. Obama FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So to all you Obama haters, let it be known, here is yet another example of how Obama gets things done cheap and well.

    Obama is the most fiscally responsible president we've had in decades.

    Too bad he is paired up with the worst Congress in our country's history.
    (at least the House is).

    1. Re:Obama FTW by khallow · · Score: 1

      Another example? This is pretty much the only example. It's quite novel for a president and administration to be so wrong on most fronts to get this relatively right. One wonders what he could have done, if he had dropped the ideological blinders from the start.

    2. Re:Obama FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice troll. A government that has to borrow 40% of every dollar it spends is not remotely getting things done cheap. The current administration is running deficits that nearly eclipse the entire 8 year Clinton administration each and every year. Clinton's first 4 years were really bad for deficit spending.... and they only managed to pile up not quite a trillion and a half over 4 years. We beat that every year these days. In fact we nearly borrow more money than we raise in income taxes.

      Also, with both houses of congress under his party's control he still didn't manage to get budget passed. That's not fiscally responsible by any stretch of the word. That practice has continued with the House under opposition control. His immediate predecessor was terrible on the debt and on freedom. The current president doing everything he can to exceed those dubious achievements.

  60. Re:uuh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I can't help but feel that if I was up in the ISS, I'd want a solid metal wall, rather than an inflatable fabric one."

    I can't speak for any astronauts that might encounter this, but if it was me I would prefer the walls that are around 6" thick rather than a steel can that is 1/4 inch thick.

  61. Good grief by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    These people ride rockets tinto orbit at 17,000 mph and come back in something which burns itself up to save their skins, all dependent on incredibly precise control, and you think they would waste any brain power to worry about the module popping from decompression?

    Astronauts are probably the most anal-lytic of all adventurers, calculating everything to a fare-thee-well, practicing their missions for years in swim tanks to get every last detail down pat. The last thing they are going to do is become emotional about such an easily proved design.

  62. Not nearly that bad by Immerman · · Score: 1

    The situation is not quite as bad as you present, because we don't actualy care about the axial loads, we care about the skin stresses. Yes, pressure increases linearly with the amount of surface area (i.e. with the square of linear dimension), but the stress we care about is distributed along the skin cross section, which is directly proportional to the linear dimension.

    For example lets think of "ring" of wall that makes up the middle of a cylindrical chamber. Air pressure is exerting a radial force outwards in all directions, while the tensile strength keeping the ring from stretching/tearing is oriented circumferentially, with the material fibers acting like thousands of tiny rope rings. Double the diameter of the ring and you double the surface area, the pressure, and the the force exerted by each of those tiny ropes to keep it from stretching. On the other hand double the length, and there's no net change. You still have twice the force being contained, but now you also have twice as many ropes, so the force on each one is unchanged. As for the axial forces, those change with the square of diameter, but not at all with length. And the number of lengthwise "ropes" also increases linearly with diameter, so each doubling of diameter again only doubles the stress on each strand.

    Obviously there's still an upper limit, but the picture is much rosier:
    22ft diameter = stress of ~34,000 lbs/foot
    41 ft diameter = stress of ~65,000 lbs/foot
    There's also a really simple solution: every time you double the diameter, (which doubles the stress) also double the thickness of the fabric, (which doubles the number of fibers carrying that stress). When you consider that working volume is proportional to diameter cubed, and amount of fabric is proportional to surface area (diameter squared) times a thickness that increases linearly with diameter, what you really end up with is that the amount of material scales linearly with enclosed volume, not such a bad thing at all.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    1. Re:Not nearly that bad by slinches · · Score: 1

      That's all true and makes for a good explanation of basic pressure vessel sizing. I was just trying to point out how much energy is being contained by structures like this. Most of the other posts seemed to dismiss the issue simply because the pressure isn't high.

      At least I didn't go the inflammatory science "journalism" route and state that a fully inflated BA2100 is the equivalent of ~50kg of TNT!!!!!

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
    2. Re:Not nearly that bad by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Oh crap, you're right! And just think of the explosive potential of an entire *planet* worth of an atmosphere at those sorts of pressures, we're all so screwed if gravity suddenly fails.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  63. Bigelow is in contact with ET's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZX2yI39A8

    no joke.

  64. Re:uuh by khallow · · Score: 1

    Even if it's completely irrational (and the FA says non-rigid exteriors are better able to withstand a micrometeor), I can't help but feel that if I was up in the ISS, I'd want a solid metal wall, rather than an inflatable fabric one.

    And? Sounds like the appropriate choice would be to get over your belief than to compromise your safety.

    The next question of course is how to get it up there? It's about 10x more than the maximum payload of either the Dragon or Soyuz rockets...

    It's inflatable. It's not "10x" more when it's being launched.

  65. Re:uuh by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Not necessarily. Pressure itself is not relative, there's a very definite zero-point in hard vacuum. Most pressure gauges are relative, because most of the reasons we care about pressure likewise depend on pressure differentials. You can however purchase pressure gauges that measure absolute pressure, though they tend to be much more expensive and the applications are limited. One that springs to mind is maintaining breathing gas - humans need a certain partial pressure range of oxygen to survive. Too little and we start suffering brain damage from oxygen deprivation, too much and we start suffering various oxidation-related damage (typically a slower process, but still quite dangerous). In both cases it's the absolute partial pressure we care about. Whether we're breathing pure O2 at 1/5 atm or a 1/25 O2 mix at 5atm we're good, at least as far as O2 is concerned.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  66. Re:uuh by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Other way around, *double* the O2 ppm and you can lower the pressure by half, since the partial pressure of O2 will then remain the same. In fact with a pure O2 environment you could cut the pressure to 1/5 atm (3psi) while still maintaining sea-level O2 pressure. You could possibly drop it even lower, most people can readily adapt to a 1.5psi partial pressure (~ 6000m), and at least some can adapt to 1psi (~9000m ~= peak of Mount Everest, which has been climbed without extra O2). I don't know how well we'd adapt to such low absolute pressures though.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  67. Re:uuh by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Right. Think of it like forces on a wagon - if you have two people pulling the same amount in in opposite directions the net force is zero and nothing happens. If one of them pulls with 1lb more force the net force is now 1lb, and the wagon will move as though there were only a single 1lb force acting on it, the rest of the force cancels out whether its 2lb or 2000.

    Pressure is almost exactly the same thing, except you're talking about force-per-area - matching pressure cancels out, leaving the difference to be taken up by the structure maintaining it.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  68. Re:uuh by Immerman · · Score: 1

    You mean the same way your car tires are all wobbly? Or a firmly inflated balloon? Bouncy castles and such are wobbly because they're inflated to low pressures - inflate them to two atmospheres and they'd be practically rigid. Add in the fact that the module material likely has *very* little stretch and you'll get minimal flex.

    Say your module has a 20ft diameter ~= 600 square feet cross section. Multiply that by 15psi and you get 1.3 million pounds of force keeping the opposite ends apart. There's no way your air circulation system is going to muster those sorts of forces and cause wobble. As for vibration, sure, every single part of the space station is continuously vibrating, for that matter so is every structure on Earth. And generally speaking a flexible material will survive vibration and much better than a rigid one, that's one of the reasons long suspension bridges are so much more common than arched ones - the longer the bridge the greater the unavoidable vibrations, and flexing allows the energy to be dissipated harmlessly rather than gradually deforming or breaking rigid components.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  69. Re:uuh by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

    Psychology revolves around what you see and feel. In this case, an astronaut floating into a Bigelow module attached to the ISS will be feeling an outer skin that feels exactly as rigid as the walls of the rest of the station. The material the module is made of is so strong and so thick and held in place so rigidly by air pressure that it feels as strong as steel to the touch. We know this because of inflated test modules on Earth. Inflate it to an equivalent pressure to what it will be on orbit, and that's what it feels like. It feels very very solid. The fact that the physics and projectile testing says it's actually even stronger than it feels is a bonus.

  70. Re:uuh by cusco · · Score: 1

    I've lived in Cusco, Peru (11,200 feet/3400 meters), and after a week or two adjusting it's quite comfortable if you're not doing strenuous labor. After a month riding a bicycle or carrying a heavy load is still a bit more difficult than at sea level, but not dramatically so. There is no real reason to maintain a space station at sea level atmospheric pressure, except that the launch pad and training centers are at sea level so astronauts are used to it. Move your facilities to the Ecuadorian Andes (which has other advantages anyway) and the habitat could change its standard pressure to that of Quito (9,350 feet/2800 meters).

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  71. I could not agree more by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    In fact, this might destroy ASI's work on the cans. It always drove me up a wall that we removed competition on the module constructions. BUT, each one of those cans cost something like 200 million on up.

    OTOH, if is 17 million for this small unit, it will be a major paradigm shift. The reason is that BEAM was SUPPOSED to include CBM or LIDS on each side. If they can do all of this for 17 million and all that is needed is to extend the metal core, and increase the size of the outer fabric, well, that means that a BA 330 can be done for under 50 million. Easy.

    It also means that for less money than what ASI charge just for manufacturing their cans, BA and SpaceX can put a module that is 3-6x larger in volume. That really is incredible.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:I could not agree more by Teancum · · Score: 1

      I just saw a brief comment on another site (pure speculation on this point though) that suggested this Bigelow module might be able to fly as a secondary payload on one of the SpaceX CRS flights and to put this into the "trunk" of the Dragon. If Bigelow could pull *that* off, it would be even more remarkable. A two for one special is the kind of thing that would prove commercial spaceflight really means to save costs.

    2. Re:I could not agree more by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I know. I saw that. Basically, it requires the F9 V1.1 and extended trunk (I mentioned that on another post in parallel to this). But that is only if BEAM is as small as was originally planned. What is cool about it, is that it could mean that this would go up within a year. That is ideal for everybody. The reason is that it gets Bigelow's manufacturing lines going. Likewise, it allows NASA to play with things and prove to the world that all is good. After all, think of how much NASA has done for SpaceX and even Orbital. A WHOLE lot.

      One key thing that many miss is that BA wants to put up 1-2 stations into orbit, but they will likely not get loads of customers. The reason is that there is not really loads of R&D that is being done. Not enough anyways. But I suspect that they will have enough to make it worth their while.

      Where life will get good for BA, is when they can put a base on the moon. At that moment, EVERY NATION will want to go. They will want to make claims in spite of the treaties. They will want to make certain that they do not have an Antarctica/Arctic situation of multiple nations making claims on areas.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  72. Does this mean Bigalow is hiring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They've been posting the same job openings for designers, engineers and model makers for the past 5 years.
    Are they finally gonna hire people?