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Codec2 Project Asks FCC To Modernize Regulations

Bruce Perens writes "The Codec2 project has developed FreeDV, a program to encode digital voice on two-way radio in only 1.125 KHz of bandwidth. But FCC regulations aren't up-to-speed with the challenges of software-defined radio and Open Source. A 24 page FCC filing created by Bruce Perens proposes that FCC allow all digital modulations and published digital codes on ham radio and switch to bandwidth-based regulation."

27 of 89 comments (clear)

  1. About Codec2 by thatkid_2002 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For those interested in knowing what Codec2 is, there's a video from Linux Conference Australia 2012 which gives a pretty good (and gentle) overview.
    http://mirror.linux.org.au/linux.conf.au/2012/Codec_2_Open_Source_Speech_Coding_at_2400_bits_and_Below.ogv

  2. good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The regulations to move from 25 khz to 12.5 khz just took effect this year which forced many cash strapped agencies and municipalities to buy new radio systems. I don't think there will be much support for further narrowing bandwidth any time soon.

    1. Re:good luck with that by Dan+Dankleton · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This will affect the amateur HF bands, not the agency bands. At the moment, US rules have separate sub-bands for voice, data and image transmissions. This does not really fit with how modern digital schemes transmit - there could be a lot of metadata carried with digital voice signals, for example. What this proposal does is do away with the rules which say where you can transmit voice and replace it with rules which say you can transmit any signal which takes less than X khz bandwidth in this segment.

    2. Re:good luck with that by sunderland56 · · Score: 2

      His proposal is for *amateur* radio. Commercial radio would not be affected.

      In the amateur radio space, the aim of the only-use-approved-standards legislation is to allow the FCC to monitor amateur communications. If this passes, it would make it far more difficult for the FCC to enforce their regulations, and make it much easier for non-amateurs to illegally use these bands. Hopefully someone will petition the FCC to stop this by playing the "terrorists will use this" card.

      Digital communications experimentation is already allowed at UHF frequencies so this proposal really does not gain anything at all. It's not like the amateur bands are over crowded.

    3. Re:good luck with that by vlm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At the moment, US rules have separate sub-bands for voice, data and image transmissions.

      Note that the FCC currently regulates by information content, not modulation. I guess a /. analogy is its like classifying networking tech first by layer 2/3 at the bottom as the "fundamental layer", then layer 1, then the upper layers, sorta. Which is obviously wrong. So if I send you a string of ones and zeros in PSK-31 modulation or whatever, that represents speech, we have to go in one subband on HF. Then if I send you ones and zeros representing text data, like this post, we have to QSY to yet another subband. Then if I send you ones and zeros representing a goatse jpeg picture (which would run afoul of the fcc reg against obscenity, but I digress), we have to QSY to yet another frequency... even if its all the same modulation technology, the same "stuff on the airwaves" for the ones and zeros. Maybe another way to put it, is our "MIME-type" is our frequency subband, not something a little more modern or realistic.

      Legally/technically if I went on CW (aka morse code) and told you verbally how to draw an amplifier schematic that could be seen as illegal as its obviously image traffic, no worse than if I sent you postscript code or the ones and zeros of a .png file.

      There are two killer problems which may or may not be discussed here.

      First the proposal claims to promote "paperwork reduction" while installing a whole new crazy array of complicated regs ON TOP OF the existing overall rules for reasonable and prudent and good engineering practice and emergency traffic priority or WTF the exact phrases. In my opinion as a third generation ham with over three decades of experience, what works with the smart people on the VHF/UHF/microwave bands should work with the glorified CBers on the HF bands, which in summary is do whatever the heck you want as long as its good engineering practice and stays within ham band edges (note this is a simplification, but basically correct). Yes I know this is the peak of this solar cycle but when 10M is closed and dead I see no reason my buddy and I shoudn't be able to use 200 KHz of wideband FM on 10M across the city if we please, because it certainly can't hurt anyone. Or do something weird on 160M during the day time in summer, why not? So the most rational bandplan is not this proposal, but is: Do whatever the F you want between 3.5 MHz and 4 MHz as long as it stays in band edges and follows all the other numerous "content and performance based" regulations (like no intentional interference, good engineering standards, content rules wrt obscenity (which is certainly ignored on 80 and to some extent on 20 aka the high tech redneck CB bands, so why can't we accept that we'll ignore bandwidth limits too?), emergency traffic gets priority, blah blah blah)

      The other thing carefully not discussed, regardless if true or not, the widely held belief was Bonnie's plan from a decade ago, mentioned in this very proposal, was just the thin edge of the wedge to fill 20M from band edge to band edge with psuedo-commercial winlink traffic. There's two problems with this. The first is it doesn't seem to modify the unattended operation rules but then again its the thin edge, the next proposal will be expanding the unattended operation subbands to 3.5 to 4 MHz for example, etc. The second is, see #1 above, why should anyone care if the vast majority of hams wanted to use winlink, if so, then let them... its not the "SSB-preservation amateur radio service" or the "AM amateur radio service" or for that matter the "CW amateur radio service".

      Well, this mostly accurate history lesson outta stir the pot some.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:good luck with that by Dan+Dankleton · · Score: 2

      The whole proposal covers all the amateur bands - but I think (the FCC are not my radio authority) that the mode issue is something which only affects the HF bands.

      I agree that it's a great thing though - I was amazed just the other day when I suggested sending data during silent portions of a voice conversation and was told that this would be against US rules.

    5. Re:good luck with that by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      The whole proposal covers all the amateur bands - but I think (the FCC are not my radio authority) that the mode issue is something which only affects the HF bands.

      I agree that it's a great thing though - I was amazed just the other day when I suggested sending data during silent portions of a voice conversation and was told that this would be against US rules.

      For HF bands, mode is a significant issue, and no, the FCC can't actually do a damned thing about it because it's all dictated by the ITU.

      Remember, the HF band can reach beyond a country quite easily (after all, people do contests to see the furthest location they can reach on 5W), so it ends up being a whole multinational mess. And the ITU moves very slowly - we're talking on the order of decades to get anything passed because every country is affected.

      Far easier on the VHF and UHF+ bands since the signals stay local.

    6. Re:good luck with that by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 2

      If the D-star repeater is on an amateur band, it is part of the problem. There's no experimentation with D-star. There's just paying for a hunk of proprietary equipment. But, hey, we need yet another repeater on 2m and 70cm. The ones already there are just so overloaded with traffic!

      No, what we need is more free space on these bands for experimentation with digital and analog modes, including some wide-band modes. But for that you need to get rid of some of the bandwidth dedicated to unused repeaters.

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    7. Re:good luck with that by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 2

      Amateur experimentation isn't limited to modulation experimentation. Usage experimentation is actually more common -combining different types of equipment, techniques, uses, etc.

      No, but that sort of experimentation is open to many more amateurs when using open, non-proprietary technologies.

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    8. Re:good luck with that by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2

      irst the proposal claims to promote "paperwork reduction" while installing a whole new crazy array of complicated regs ON TOP OF the existing overall rules for reasonable and prudent and good engineering practice and emergency traffic priority or WTF the exact phrases.

      You may have been confused by the stuff in the right-hand side of the big table. That's all existing FCC rules. I just moved them to where they'd be seen, instead of having them live in a list of footnotes as in the current Part 97.

      If we are going to have unattended traffic, there needs to at least be a ham-adminstered band-plan to keep it in a subband. Nobody wins if unattended traffic is a big HF band user in non-emergency operations.

      Thanks

      Bruce

  3. Be careful... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Dear economically invisible 'ham radio' users;

      After an exhaustive modernization study underwritten in part by our good friends at Verizon, we have concluded that the future of digital voice should really cost ~$100/month and rely entirely on proprietary hardware and firmware. To this end, we will be lowballing every last scrap of spectrum we can to the nation's incumbent telcos as soon as possible.

    XOXOXO,

    The FCC"

    I applaud modernization efforts, there is no reason why 'ham radio' should be forced to stick to ancient technology for reasons of sheer regulatory inertia when it could be fertile ground for experimentation; but I worry that (given the, um, limited war chests of ham nerds vs. other spectrum users) that perfectly sensible re-examinations of legacy rules might well end up becoming an exercise in malignant entities with better lobbyists using the rexamination of legacy rules to appropriate spectrum that was protected at the cost of a certain amount of anachronism...

    1. Re:Be careful... by vlm · · Score: 2

      appropriate spectrum

      I suspect they'd really like 440/902/1296/2304/3456 but this proposal is for HF. Nobody wants to carry an antenna for 160M attached to their shiny new iphone. Or even 10M.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Be careful... by k6mfw · · Score: 2

      ... there is no reason why 'ham radio' should be forced to stick to ancient technology for reasons of sheer regulatory inertia when it could be fertile ground for experimentation...

      There are some hams that are experimenting with other modes besides AM, FM, SSB though amateur radio is an aging community (fewer young people than decades ago). But gotta be careful when promoting new modes such as digital. D-star is a digital mode that claims to be open source but it really is not (only Icom has D-star radios). Just like APCO-25 which they say is also open source. Both are except the vocoder, that's what you got to pay someone to use.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    3. Re:Be careful... by ebunga · · Score: 2

      Did you seriously say "fewer young people"? I'm seeing the exact opposite on every band except 40m. Even the VE sessions tend to be staffed with mostly under-30-year-olds these days. It's a very different hobby than when I was first licensed, mostly for the better.

    4. Re:Be careful... by ai4px · · Score: 2

      Bravo... Many modulation modes can't be attempted because of FCC regulations. Heck, even AFSK1200 modems have a CW ID built into their firmware! The commercial interests have bypassed ham radio's wunderland of yesteryear. I hate to say it, but innovation is not where ham radio is now. Didn't I see on QRZ a year ago the FCC was considering allowing spread spectrum for the ham bands? wow. What trailblazers we are.

    5. Re:Be careful... by Muad'Dave · · Score: 4, Informative

      ...it could be fertile ground for experimentation...

      It is a fertile ground for experimentation! You need look no farther than the recent influx of extremely spectrum-efficient modes developed by K1JT. He's developed modes tailored for most any propagation mode/band including meteor scatter, moonbounce, etc.

      The newest of the lot, the JT9 modes, are capable of decoding signals as far as 42dB into the noise!. The fastest JT9 mode takes 1 minute per transmission but can decode at a S/N of -27dB - that's noise with 500x the power of the signal.

      Take a look at the WSPR page - on it you can access a database of WSPR transmissions, some of them at amazingly high km/Watt ratios.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  4. I agree with the end goal, Bruce by Muad'Dave · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The end goal of moving toward more spectrally-efficient digital modes for all forms of communication is laudable, but I think that there still needs to be some 'semi-official' protection for the traditional SSB phone modes while they're still in widespread use. Most robust digital modulation schemes are fairly immune to interference from adjacent SSB voice transmissions; unfortunately the converse is not true - my Mark I ears are not immune to nearby digital interference. As long as we still have band plans that encourage the separation of all digital modes from the analog modes, I fully support your proposal.

    A question, though: How does spread-spectrum fit into your bandwidth-based plan? Do you consider the bandwidth to be what's used by each individual chip or the SS signal over all its carriers?

    How do you feel about introducing a CDMA-esque automatic listen-before-transmit rule for computer-based digital modes, particularly with the growth of unattended stations?

    PS - There's a typo in item 79 in the 20m, 6kHz section of the proposed bandwidth table - you have the lower limit as 1.150 MHz instead of 14.150 MHz.

    73 de K4DET

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    1. Re:I agree with the end goal, Bruce by vlm · · Score: 2

      As long as we still have band plans that encourage the separation of all digital modes from the analog modes, I fully support your proposal.

      Its important to note that there are a zillion levels of regulation, and the current obsolete rules are the wrong level for the regulation, not just the wrong rules at that level as Bruce's plan claims.

      For example, how many contests have you heard lately on the WARC bands? Thats a gentleman's agreement thats held for decades now.

      I don't see anything wrong with a gentlemans agreement to never operate USB with a digital station higher in freq than you and never operate digital with a USB station lower in freq than you. Or something similar. It doesn't have to be written into fcc part 97, any more than ending a qso or post with 73 has to be written into part 97.

      73 and have a nice day

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  5. Re:Blah blah blah by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2, Informative

    Blah blah blah I'm Bruce Perens and I'm so wonderful. I get such a kick out of submitting my own worthless shit to the front page.

    The AC got modded down to oblivion for this comment, and given how it was written and how fast some mods pull the trigger, I'm not surprised.

    However, you've got to admit that a Slashdot submission that reads "xxx writes: a 24-page FCC created by xxx proposes that..." make xxx appear insufferably conceited and self-obsessed, be xxx Bruce Perens or anybody else.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  6. Bruce Perens isn't asking, ARRL is by ebunga · · Score: 2

    Bruce is merely lending his support with a comment. Also, the FCC wants to go that way because it makes the rules simpler. Also, we're already mostly there. Then again, who has actually read all of Part 97?

    1. Re:Bruce Perens isn't asking, ARRL is by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2

      I am indeed asking for a ton of stuff that ARRL did not. I support what ARRL asks for, but the don't ask for enough to explicitly authorize FreeDV.

  7. Real World Demo by pavon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And here is a recent demo of real world performance. Compared to SSB the encoded voice is more artificial sounding, but there is no background noise (hiss and clicks) and it uses less than half the bandwidth to transmit. There is more info and a large playlist of demo/tutorial videos on David Rowe's blog (the creator of codec2).

  8. What's it for? by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The question today that needs to be answered is what is Amateur radio for, and what is it for 10 years from now?

    This isn't silly because a large portion of the "social" aspect of HAM radio has moved to the Internet. I don't see much of a movement to keep it alive, either. There is a very small community out there and it is shrinking.

    It is true that historically the FCC HAM regulations were designed to keep operators from stepping on each other and from stepping on commercial and government users of the spectrum. What I suspect is most feared by today's HAM operators is the CB-ification of Amateur radio - elimination of licensing in favor of commercially regulated gear. While a lot of today's users would be OK with that, it would change the entire definition and purpose - which brings us back to the original question.

    I don't see the FCC signing on to the Open Source Radio Support Act as proposed. Continuing to regulate by content type is silly and it may be silly to try to regulate by modulation type. It is a nice idea to say that transmissions have to universally decodable, but without a lot of standards and regulation to back them up this isn't going to be all that achievable - specifically reception of a bitstream without any definition is going to be pretty much inpenetratable. Just as today if I give you a binary file without any self-defining header and without identification like a file extension it could be pretty much anything and while it could be coded in a publically defined way without knowing which of thousands it could be renders it unreadable. This is similar to saying that an unknown compression scheme is the same as encryption.

    I think today's HAM operators need to have a more compelling case why they are going to continue to exist. The home-brew gear of yesteryear is nearly gone and the "experimentation" envisioned with digitial communications might be nice to authorize but unlikely to ever produce anything of value. I would certainly like to see an openness dedicated to satellite communications, but again who is it for and what would it be used for?

    1. Re:What's it for? by GrendelT · · Score: 2

      Just "ham" will do, it's no acronym. No need to capitalize anything in this hobby.

      FWIW, I'm a ham experimenter, I homebrew things quite often. Ham radio is, and has always been, about experimentation and learning/discovery- everything else is ancillary. True, the numbers have dropped significantly since the advent of the internet and web but I'd argue that many of those were the "appliance operators" who played with ham radio simply because there was no good, technical alternative.

      Today, ham radio operators make up about 1% of the population in the US, Canada and European countries (my own calculations done a couple years ago). The numbers are not staggering, but the technical prowess of this small cadre of hobbyists is huge. While not all in today's ham community are experimenters, in the past not all were experimenters then. Part of the reason of the decline in the DIY movement in ham radio is the obsolescence of through-hole parts for RF circuitry. The "IF can" is one such part I've been searching for recently. Toko, the largest manufacturer of this part, discontinued the line as more and more product manufacturers moved to SMT. Granted, there are plenty of parts to make plenty of radio kits and projects - I'm just citing one example of the trend.

      Your assessment of the CB-ification of ham radio is spot on. That is the moment that hams will know the end is nigh. Already with the Morse Code requirement being lifted many old-timers said it would be the death of radio. It actually allowed license numbers to swell (relatively) following that shift. Morse Code as a method of communication is not ideal, but it has its uses as a hobby. There's no need to require anyone to learn Morse Code just as there's no reason to require every would-be programmer to learn Assembly. You can operate at a higher level and still enjoy the experience.

      So why is ham radio still relevant? Because society still doesn't know everything about RF and propagation. Because hams are still making discoveries. Because ham radio is one of many outlets for the hardware hacker. Because we don't know what the future holds, but hams will continue to experiment and publish their findings which can be used in industry and further research in physics, astronomy and engineering.

      Sure there's market value in the spectrum that has been set aside as a non-profit playground for a bunch of amateur hobbyists, should we sell it off because it's worth money? Why not sell off the National Parks system? They're not all making money hand over fist (if at all). All that land for sale could really make a fortune for the US government. (Imagine the view on those condos peering out over the peak of every hill and dale in Yellowstone - the rent on those things could be a real goldmine!) Selling a finite resource without putting aside some for recreation, enjoyment and research is short-sighted. Financiers swoop in and pay top dollar today for a resource you can never get back. That money is squandered on bureaucracy and waste and in no time the money is gone, yet your public loss of the resource perpetuates into tomorrow. What then? To what end are we willing to sell short tomorrow's playground for today's quick cash?

  9. From the what department? SRTADCAS/REELN? by GrendelT · · Score: 2

    "from the SRTADCAS/REELN dept"? WTF is that?

    C'mon Slashdot, if you're going to use Morse code in the dept line, at least look it up and make something witty. My how things have changed here.

  10. Not an issue in Canada by ubergeek65536 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In Canada any codec can be used in ham radio as long as the signal fits in the allocated bandwidth for the frequency and no encryption is used. The restriction is that you must publish the method before going on the air.

  11. Re:Blah blah blah by geminidomino · · Score: 2

    However, you've got to admit that a Slashdot submission that reads "xxx writes: a 24-page FCC created by xxx proposes that..." make xxx appear insufferably conceited and self-obsessed

    Or maybe it was just written to read like a "news" article rather than a first-person livejournal (facebook? What are the kids using now?) post.