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IT Job Market Recovering Faster Now Than After Dot-com Bubble Burst
tsamsoniw writes "More new tech jobs have emerged since the end of the past recession than during the same recovery timelines following the dot-com bubble burst and the early-1990s recession. What's more, the unemployment rate among technology professionals is now half that of the national average — with especially low unemployment rates for database administrators and network architects. What's not clear, though, is how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned job searches."
Well, I've pretty much stopped looking. I suppose what I'm doing now counts as a "tech job", but the IT job market sure has lost a lot of appeal to me. Who wants to get chewed up and spit out again?
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
The dot com bust hit the IT sectory specifically, and followed a huge bubble in which tons of people were found in unnecessary jobs fueled by the gush of easy start-up money.
How can you even compare.
Welcome to Detroit, or really, most of Michigan. The same tech jobs posted over and over by the same recruiters... sorting through positions that say "Michigan" but are really redirects to another state... More invective and frustration... While there are a few good recruiting firms local the international recruiters spam the boards and inbox. Unfortunately the market doesn't support many of us who have skills and can't move out of state for whatever reason(s). I'm looking at taking a position and moving to the area it's located in since most commutes to the few "tech hubs" we have left are 1 to 2 hour drives, ironically I'm 20 minutes away from downtown Detroit but decent tech jobs there are few and far between. - HEX
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
The dot-com burst was a tech sector bubble.
The current burst is a finance sector bubble.
How's that finance job market recovery going?
On hopes that people have found other jobs rather than being forced to exist on unemployment until someone gives them back what is essentially their old job. That is what recovery is. People finding work and the economy moving forward. I think it would be better if we educated ourselves for a flexible work load rather than a specific and narrow trade. That is why so many PhD students have trouble finding positions.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Employment in high tech is cyclical - boom to bust, followed by boom again. It seems to happen roughly every 10 years (1991, 2001, 2009 come to mind, but there was another boom around 1980). When employment booms, there's a shortage of skilled engineers and programmers, so companies look to off-shore. Meanwhile, the number of CS students in the US skyrockets. Then those students graduate, and not long after, the industry tanks, the job market softens, and there's a local surplus of skilled workers who are suddenly more affordable vis-a-vis off-shore workers. Seeing the surplus of skilled on-shore workers, companies start "re-shoring" -- bringing jobs back to the US. But lots of unemployed engineers and programmers go on to other things and, seeing so many engineers and programmers out of work, CS enrollments plummet. When the next boom hits, there's a shortage of workers again and the cycle continues.
Here is where I take some offense with the article and the comparisons to 2000/2001. I watched the bubble burst here in the states and then in Europe, and let me tell you during the peak of the dotcom bubble like 50% of folks had any real technical chops. The bandwagon jumping was ferocious, even at good companies.
Just putting it out there ...
Did anyone else read the title and thought "Megaupload's downfall wasn't that bad, wasn't it?" Or did Kim's extensive physique just lose structural integrity?
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.
Needless to say, I declined the offer....still looking.
This may have been sarcasm, and if so, a big whoosh to me, but if you seriously declined a job offer because they wanted you to get some certifications and be on call for 9 weekends per year, you evidently don't really need a job.
I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.
That actually seems pretty reasonable to me; the only point I'd negotiate on would be the certifications at my cost relative to my starting wage and/or signing bonus.
Surely the 5 days a week, and being on call one weekend in 6 wasn't the deal breaker? Doctors deal with the same reality... people don't get sick only from 9 to 5, and computers are no more accomodating. Things break on weekends.
When you say "left school" are you talking about high school?
He's talking about troll school and has been at slashdot ever since...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I've got A+, Network+ and MCP and it's still not enough to get the first job in IT? What gives?
This is the problem though. Give an inch, a mile is taken. What is one more weekend? One less sick day? 30 more minutes to a day? You need to bring your own computer to work on.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
I'm over 50 (just barely).
the agism (in the sf bay area) is visible and intense. my healthcare went up A LOT on my 50'th birthday and I have private HI since I'm not employed now and wasn't when I was 50, either.
companies have to pay higher rates for older employees (I'm pretty sure). they also have more legal hurdles to jump thru when they fire you. in general, they don't like older guys. lots of reasons, with very few of them actually good reasons.
fwiw, if you are in the bay area and approach mid 30's, start thinking about an 'exit strategy'. by mid 40's you should have some idea or plan. I did not and I'm paying the price for my lack of forethought (I really didn't believe this, back when I was still young).
maybe other areas of the country are more accepting of us older guys, but the bay area IS NOT! trust me. yes, there are companies that have grey-hairs there but they are usually the minority and very few of them feel totally secure in their jobs, if you ask them and if they answer honestly.
its a shame. some cultures in the world respect and honor age, experience and wisdom. the bay area, fwiw, is NOT one of them ;(
(I wish I could speak one of the asian languages or be able to move there; I am told that the eastern part of the world still DOES honor and respect age and experience.)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
"Will calculate derivative interest for food"
Table-ized A.I.
Or they have an unrealistic skill / compensation ratio.
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
My company has a real job posted, for a mid-level Java developer. We have received one resume, from someone 1,000 miles away who had Java in his experience somewhere, but not recent and it was not the focus of any previous job.
Of course, my company is too cheap to post on any board that is not free, and I don't think mid-level developers cruise craigslist. I sure don't when I am looking.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Yeah, we need another B*sh war stimulus and B*sh financial bubble.
Table-ized A.I.
I went for an interview (really well known company, everyone wants to work there, or so they think) and when they told me that the job was paying about half of what I made 10 yrs ago (!!), I did not balk. it would have covered the rent, at least, and employment is honorable even if its way below your last several jobs' rates.
they would have no part of me, though. too old, way too overqualified (they said so) and they didn't want to risk taking me on. I did not (at all!) act above-the-job. I honestly would have been fine working there, even for that rate. maybe it would lead to other things or I could establish myself in that company. but no, they never even called back to give closure. (this company is known to be rude to prospective employees, and people still put up with it, too).
employers, please don't turn down those who are 'overqualified' in a tough market. get a feeling for whether they'll stay or jump; but don't just -assume- they'll jump. those who have been out of work would really appreciate the chance and they'd likely be loyal and glad to have the chance to come aboard. if they're older, they'll likely be more stable, too, and not be a job-hopper. believe me, the job-hopping days ended 10 yrs ago or even more.
the tough part is staying positive when you see the ugliness and greed that companies have, when they know its an employer's market. its soul crushing to see the lack of humanity and lack of compassion. it was a learning experience for me and I'm going to try never to do that to anyone, if I'm on the other side of the interview table.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
You don't have to speak an asian language to be valuable. If you are interested in it, you can make a good living in Hong Kong or China or India. There are a lot of opportunities for people who understand technology and are native English speakers. You can bridge the gap between customers and engineers who speak limited English. You may not make good bay area wages depending on where you go, but you'll make excellent for local cost of living wages.
Man, you really need that seminar!
How about feeding your kids and supporting your family? Do you care more about your ego than putting in ocassional extra help as required? I hope he does not have a family. If the grandparent has been out of work for 6 months (common today) and he knowingly turned it down because he would have to work one saturday sometime I bet any wife with common sense would leave him.
My exgf is a chief who works 80 hours a week. Ask any business owner how many hours he or she works? ALOT! I have worked 2 jobs including a taco bell at night while I worked a job not in my field during the day with 4 hours sleep during the great recession.I have a college degree too and made deans list 3 times.Why? My step kids were eating mac and cheese and I loved them enough to suck it up until better times. It irritates the heck out of me when I read such things as a result of what I and othets been through.
Your employer owes you jack shit. They own the job and requirements. It is not 1999 anymore and if requiring you to pitch in every othermonth and keeping current on your skillset where you do not live in poverty sounds pretty darn reasonable to me. Many who work 70 hours a week make less than 30k a year! Be greateful you have a job?
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'Tis purposeful. Apparently, a number of companies have found a way to play fast and loose with H1Bs. See, in order to make things legal, they need to post the job publicly, so that the natives have a chance before the foreigners get to apply. Since the companies in question are already using the possibility of a green card as leverage over the foreigner (to decrease their potential salaries / wages), the hiring of the foreigner is much preferred in the company's eyes.
But how do you dissuade, or otherwise disqualify, the natives from applying / getting the job? According to the rules, the salary has to meet certain criteria (somewhere within the average of the industry), so purely low-balling the natives won't work. Instead, these companies realized that they can use the qualifications / criteria for the job itself to get around the requirements: they hand the foreign applicant a disc with proprietary apps (costing, potentially, tends of thousands of dollars to buy, possibly even demo), and tell them to familiarize themselves with the apps. Then when the time comes to apply for the job, they can truthfully say that they have used these special apps before, and thus are more qualified for the job than the native. In other words, it would cost the native tends of thousands of dollars to buy these special apps, ostensibly provided for free to foreigners, in order to gain experience with them, in order to qualify for this job; obviously, a native will not do this, as the job itself is probably not well-paying enough to cover these capital costs.
Let it be known that I have no problems with foreigners competing for native jobs. I do, however, have a problem with uneven playing fields; fighting dirty befouls the entire industry, and lays the foundation for terrible gains. Had I my way, the H1B caps would be abolished, and their wages no different from that of the natives.
I am John Hurt.
The company you describe sounds like Google. I almost got a job there back in 2007. I did the interviews, everything went really well. They told me they were going to make me an offer. I made it all the way to the executive committee, and then, nothing. Not a peep from the HR dept. For me the sound of the financial bubble bursting was the silence of my cell phone, waiting for them to call me and tell me that the position I was being hired for had been cut. When I finally got one of them on the phone, months later, they did not even apologize for failing to get back to me.
"Crude and slow, clansman. Your attack was no better than that of a clumsy child."
It has been my observation that "overqualified" means something quite specific.
"Overqualified" means that they know the working conditions are poor, and that you have enough experience to pretty much find another job the minute they start pushing the boundaries of employment to "unreasonable" limits (and they are expecting to). "Overqualified" means you won't put up with a lot of 60-hour work weeks salaried without overtime, you'll actually expect to be able to take sick leave and vacation time (and will complain loudly if you can't), and the ultimate corporate sin -- you may in fact know more than the boss does.
Somebody who's 22 and fresh out of college does not have experience on their side. They don't know that employees have rights, and additionally they don't have the pressures of a potential spouse demanding time and energy (not to mention kids).
They're right about assuming you will jump. Once they put the screws to you, you will, whereas they know they can treat a kid (or an H1B) like absolute shit.