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China's Nuclear Rover Will Sample the Moon

HansonMB writes "After launching on one of the nation's Long March rockets and a three-day transit, Chang'E 3 will reach the Moon and enter into a 62 mile orbit. Once settled, the 2,645 pound lander will separate from the roughly 8,200 pound spacecraft and descend into a highly elliptical orbit 62 by 9.5 miles above the surface." Russia wants a taste, too, and plans a moon-sampling mission set for 2015.

33 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Days of humans in space coming to an end? by cod3r_ · · Score: 2

    Why send humans when you can just send robots.

    1. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      They tend not to open the pod bay door when you need it most

    2. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by timeOday · · Score: 2

      I'm increasingly having trouble remembering why it seemed like a space mission would be so much cooler with a person onboard. Would the Hubble be so much better with a guy in it? Would the Curiosity Mars rover? Just because "somebody" gets to have an experience doesn't mean I do, and offhand I can't think of any moon science that was done by people and could not now be done by a robot. Even hitting golf balls.

    3. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you weren't there you wouldn't need to open the pod bay door in the first place!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by c0lo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nah... US will return to the moon in 2015. Just after NASA builds a vehicle to replace the retired space shuttles, in 2014; it will be called "Crew Exploration Vehicle". And, once on the Moon, the Americans will start building a permanent base there, as an avant-post for manned missions to Mars.

      Nice re-reading science-fiction classics, especially George W. Bush.

      On the other hand, I can't deplore enough the change in the mind-set. From

      We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, etc

      to why send humans when you can just send robots... in only 50 years.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      If Apollo 13 didn't have people on board to fix the issue after the O2 tank failure, they would never have made it home. Of course, if they didn't send people, they wouldn't have needed the O2, or needed to return. So there is that.

    6. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      If Apollo 13 didn't have people on board to fix the issue after the O2 tank failure, they would never have made it home. Of course, if they didn't send people, they wouldn't have needed the O2, or needed to return. So there is that.

      Also, they didn't actually fix anything since if they had *fixed* the problem, they would have been able to complete the mission. They would have needed a much larger toolbox to do any useful repair and they'd still miss the O2 after the repair.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by SourceFrog · · Score: 2

      I'm increasingly having trouble remembering why it seemed like a space mission would be so much cooler with a person onboard

      I would think this should be more obvious, but it's "cooler" for the people onboard. Do you think it would have been a whole lot cooler if the Spanish had just sent robots to the New World?

      Humans are going to colonize space, and it's not for your personal entertainment, but because people with a spirit of exploration want to see what's out there and want to set foot on and colonize new worlds. The early settlers didn't migrate to the New World for the purposes of entertaining those back home. Public Space Programs may be entertaining, but they're not primarily entertainment programs (likewise for projects like Elon Musk's).

      Of course, projects like Hubble wouldn't be any better with 'a guy in it'. But is there advantage to acquiring the know-how to have humans in space? Absolutely. If you can't see why it's "cool" to get humans to Mars, then rather just go back to playing video games or whatever entertains you, because there's not much else in this universe that is going to fire your imagination.

      That humans are going to colonize space is by now a matter of 'when and how', not 'if'. I think it's time we got our butts over to Mars, and it's time we thought about how to get our butts over to the nearest stars and look for habitable new worlds to colonize. Time's wasting, and I want to retire someday (if we cure aging then this may be reasonable even at well below light speeds) on one of the planets around Tau Ceti, or something similar.

      --
      My other UID is three digits.
    8. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by SourceFrog · · Score: 2

      Just because "somebody" gets to have an experience doesn't mean I do

      If you want to experience this, why not apply as a volunteer for the Mars One project?

      --
      My other UID is three digits.
    9. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why send humans when you can just send robots.

      Why send robots when you just not send anything at all? At some point, you are assuming that there's something valuable to do in space. Else just not doing anything is the correct choice.

      As it turns out both robots and humans have their place in space activities. Robots are the obvious winners for virtually all extreme exploration, such as sending something out for the first time (the unmanned probes that were part of the Apollo program and used to scout possible sites and try out landing technology), to an environment that simply is not survivable (for example, a one way trip into the atmospheres of Jupiter or Venus), or lasts a ridiculous length of time (the Voyager missions).

      Robots are also good for easily automated tasks such as imaging and communications. And as the software improves, one can expect more such tasks to be automated.

      Humans are better for missions that have a lot of complexity and on site decision making. The Apollo program contains a good example of human activity that couldn't be readily duplicated by an affordable amount of robotics on Mars. Overall human time on the Moon was something like three or four weeks of human time (including the fact that there were two people on each of the half dozen missions that made it to the Moon).

      For example, consider the scientific missions to Mars over the past forty years. Each of the last three lunar missions duplicated the basic feats of any of the rovers on Mars, but in a couple of days rather than a number of years. And a powerful component of the Apollo program was the sample return, which still generates considerable academic activity today.

      People tend to forget that a manned mission could generate as much scientific knowledge in a few weeks as the unmanned landers and rovers have over the past last forty years. And that's a good use of humanity's real strength, the Earthside infrastructure that has had to make do with a remarkably thin gruel for four decades.

      There's also the goal of eventual colonization of space. One has to use humans at some point in order to further that goal beyond a rudimentary level.

    10. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by timeOday · · Score: 2
      I think the mileage that government space programs have gotten out of entertainment value for the home audience is huge, regardless of its purported minimal role. In fact I think that, plus technology from or for (unmanned) defense applications, just about covers it.

      I wish the analogy between crossing the Atlantic Ocean vs. traveling 12 light years to Tau Ceti were better than it is. I really don't think the technologies currently in use for space travel are even steps in the right direction towards traveling interstellar distances. Teleportation does not seem impossible (reconstructing ourselves at the destination), but if we can do that, then we can probably also just live inside a computer and actuate through some sort of distributed robot body if/when necessary. I realize this is starting to sound silly. Well, my point is that transporting our bodies tens of light years is even less feasible than that.

    11. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by myowntrueself · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why send humans when you can just send robots.

      Why go yourself when you can send someone else?
      Why ride a horse when you can get someone else to ride a horse for you?
      Why make love to a real pretty girl when you can get someone else to do it for you?
      Why not just kill yourself now and get your lack of involvement in life over with?
      We do things ourselves, go places ourselves, because that is part of what makes us human, we participate in life the universe and everything.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    12. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      Nah... US will return to the moon in 2015. Just after NASA builds a vehicle to replace the retired space shuttles, in 2014;

      The shuttles were never going to be any help in going to the moon. Far too heavy to do anything more than low earth orbit. Thats why the ISS is in such a low orbit and has problems with atmospheric drag; because the Americans couldn't build a reusable vehicle that didn't have wings and a tail plane. Because the military insisted that it could land in the USA in case it was carrying a classified payload. So the shuttle was a cripple. And a deathtrap.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    13. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      Why fuck when you can just have a doctor impregnate your wife with a few tools?

      Or, for her, why fuck when you can just donate an egg for a test tube baby?

      Why attend classes if you can just send a robot to proxy for you?

      Why go on vacation, when plenty of photographers are willing to sell you images and sounds of Cancun?

      Why own a home, when you can just sleep in the subway, or under a bridge, and tape up some photos of nice homes instead?

      Why do you bother to browse the internet, when you can get some of the internet's information second or third hand from people you meet?

      Why do people climb mountains again? Why do people sail? If you seriously have to ask any of these questions, then you're a part of the population that we don't want on the moon anyway.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    14. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by cusco · · Score: 2

      The astronauts on the last Apollo mission covered more territory with the Lunar Rover than all the Mars rovers combined have covered in all the years that they've been there. An astronaut can dig more than four inches into the soil. An astronaut can climb on top of a rock that a rover can't even approach. An astronaut can improvise an experiment from scraps and cleaning fluids. An astronaut can look down and recognize an unusual rock that a rover would not see from its ground-level camera. I can go on for quite a long time, but will stop there.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    15. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by cusco · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Coward.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    16. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by arkane1234 · · Score: 2

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus#Funding_campaign

      I'm not saying he was right or wrong, I'm just saying that's a citation of the funding.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    17. Re:Days of humans in space coming to an end? by khallow · · Score: 2
      You're Quantum Apostrophe, right? I'm pretty sure your arguments have been refuted before. One wonders why you haven't paid attention. In any case, let's go through them again.

      How many spaceships are these these days?

      More than zero. We have experience with spaceships, both their manufacture and use. We're not going from square one. Hence, it makes sense to push the envelope and use them in places where we haven't been yet.

      How much technology and resources are required to go to space?

      We already know the answer to that. Not very much. It's about 100 tons of material per person to get to Mars. And as noted before, we already have most of the technology we need to do so.

      Columbus actually went exploring since from his point of view, he didn't know where he was going. We KNOW that Mars and the Moon are dead.

      And we know we can make them not dead by living there. This is really one of the dumber arguments you can make. As far as we can tell, Earth used to be dead too. But it didn't stay that way.

      Traveling on the sea, as noted, supplies you with the essential basics of survival, including gravity. In space, you have none of these and zero-G and free fall are detrimental to human health. Argument four. You still get copious sunlight, which is all you really need for most life support. And artificial gravity is both easy to generate and sufficient.

      Columbus arrived on the same planet, in the same environment, and had natives he could kill and steal from. This is fucking obvious as he was still on Earth. You idiots want to go to dead rocks.

      So it's a bit harder, but you'll have no messy genocide.

      Free fuel (wind).

      Free fuel (sun).

      SPACE IS FUCKING HUGE.

      But not huge enough that we can't get to other destinations.

      IT'S ALSO FUCKING EMPTY.

      This is the dumbest argument you make. Since the Moon, Mars, asteroids, etc are in space (not to mention Earth itself is in space!), then space is not empty.

  2. Only problem is after it takes a sample by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It will have to take another one an hour later.

    1. Re:Only problem is after it takes a sample by jamiesan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Damn you moongorians!

    2. Re:Only problem is after it takes a sample by Bigby · · Score: 2

      The samples will also be exported to the US on the cheap

    3. Re:Only problem is after it takes a sample by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2

      I recommend "Radar Men from the Moon" with Commando Cody (Republic, some time in the 50's)

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  3. WTF Hoola Hoop? by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the 2,645 pound lander will separate from the roughly 8,200 pound spacecraft and descend into a highly elliptical orbit 62 by 9.5 miles above the surface

    Why are they landing a "lander" on an elliptical orbit instead of the surface of the moon? Did this come from the Siri Translator?

    1. Re:WTF Hoola Hoop? by DroolTwist · · Score: 2

      At the low point of the orbit, it will fire thrusters to slow it down and land.

  4. How do RTGs work? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

    The Chang'E 3 lander will rely on a plutonium-238 radioisotope thermoelectric generator, or RTG, for power. This is the same type of unit that's currently powering Curiosity's traverse across Mars. But unlike Curiosity, Chang'E 3 will only use its RTG to keep the spacecraft's systems humming during the two-week long lunar nights. Solar panels will allow the lander to take advantage of the free power during the two-week long lunar days.

    I thought that once you put together an RTG, its lifespan was limited only by the radiation source and the degradation of the thermocouples.

    So what's the purpose of not using the RTG all the time?
    Will that extend its life?

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:How do RTGs work? by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Informative

      All I can guess is that it doesn't provide enough power, and they are either powering down some components during the night or charging batteries during the day?

      But I'm guessing without even reading the summary.

    2. Re:How do RTGs work? by istartedi · · Score: 2

      Lots of variables: mission profile, the mass of the RTG system, the mass of the panels, power requirements. What's most important? Keeping the weight down? Maybe something else. Let's say it's the weight though. Part of me imagines them setting up an equation involving the aforementioned variables and coming up with a solution that minimizes the weight.

      If you go solar only, you would need bigger panels and batteries to run the dark side of the mission. If you go RTG only, you'd need a bigger RTG. Now it gets even more complicated because not only is it heavy, the fuel is probably expensive. Also, there could be political concerns about launching too much Pu. Yeah, China will do sketchy things; but I bet they don't want to annoy people needlessly or spend lavishly launching too much Pu.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  5. Re:How does Slashdot work? by JazzLad · · Score: 2

    Sorry, we can't run this story as it is not a duplicate of another story already run.

    --
    "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
  6. China's Rover Will Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Patrick McGoohan will eventually escape.

  7. Re:Buy your own and try it for yourself! by ddd0004 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Poor UPS guy. Imagine trying to get that up to the porch

  8. Re:RTG, not Fission. by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

    RTG, not fission.

    õ_Õ

    This is NOT powered by a full blown nuclear reactor...

    Correct. This is most likely why the article didn't claim that it is.

    --
    If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
  9. 2017 by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

    Info I gather from this link: http://www.cas.cn/zt/hyzt/16thysdh/zb/

    and from this slide: http://www.flickr.com/photos/planetaryblog/8343205291/in/photostream

    Rough translation:

    "From 2017 onward, after the completion of China's unmanned lunar missions, China will embark on manned missions to the moon and also to build a permanent lunar base"

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  10. Because governments are too close? by tlambert · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Colonize space? Why? 3/4 of our planet is ocean, how about colonize that first? Deserts? Hint: it will be much cheaper and possible with today's technology without major sacrifices. So... where are the underwater cities, etc? No takers?

    Because governments are too close?

    For example, when the Republic of Minerva attempted to create an independent micronation by colonizing an area of the ocean, the US paid Tonga to claim it for the Kingdom of Tonga so the millionaires who were trying to found it couldn't get out from under existing national sovereignties.

    For a lot of people willing to fly away to the far reaches of space, the limiting factor has always been the cost of getting out of the gravity well in the first place. The DC-X (Delta Clipper) would have remedied this, but it was killed off McDonnell Douglas as part of them being eaten by Boeing, in favor of the National Aerospace plane, which never materialized, and would have needed runways and to boost additional equipment to do landings out there, where there are no runways for the plane to use (an intentional limitation of the plane).

    I can understand governments being wary of cheap access to space (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment#Project_Thor should probably not be put in practical reach of well to do Facebook emloyees, and more than you'd want them to have tactical nuclear weapons at their disposal).

    That it would cost a whole hell of a lot for a cat's paw to fly up and try to claim the territory out from under them is a major advantage of basing something like this in space, and therefore a major draw to colonization efforts there.

    There are also people even crazier than that who believe that it's mankind's Manifest Detiny to expand to fill the solar system, and from there the nearby stars, then on to the galaxy, and then on to the rest of the universe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny .

    Either way, it means either getting rid of the small minds in the way, or working around them. Local end runs, like Minerva, have failed, and if you are just going to be an extension of an existing nation, and are in the top 1% of wealth there anyway, you can be a hell of a lot more comfortable under their thumb without going anywhere than you can be doing subsistence fish-farming on a floating city in the middle of the Pacific being a damn sight less comfortablr, and then finding yourself *still* under their thumb anyway.

    Colonies are built by political refugees, economic refugees, indentured servants, disinherited heirs, bastard progeny, and, in general, people looking for a better life than the one they have now. For everyone in the middle class and higher, that's basically unavailable here on Earth, "better" being a relative term, and with orbital costs being artificially inflated, anyone below that level of wealth can't hope to go anywhere, except local regional border crossings, in the hope of a better life.

    So you get a bunch of nerds, in the middle class and higher, where do you think they will be pointing their colony ships, Antarctica? It might work, but you are more likely to get booted off by whoever "protects" that section of Antarctica from someone doing that under the Antarctic Treaty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty which was designed to prevent something like that ever happening.

    The closest you're going to get on-planet is taking over an existing state, and Charles Taylor pretty much nailed the door shut on that in 1960: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taylor_(Liberia)