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Turkey's Science Research Council Stops Publication of Evolution Books

Posted by Soulskill on from the jesus-rode-tyrannosaurs dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The Scientific and Technical Research Council of Turkey (TÜBITAK) has put a stop to the publication and sale of all books in its archives that support the theory of evolution, daily Radikal has reported. The books have long been listed as “out of stock” on TÜBTAK's website, but their further publication is now slated to be stopped permanently. Titles by Richard Dawkins, Alan Moorehead, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Levontin and James Watson are all included in the list of books that will no longer be available to Turkish readers. In early 2009, a huge uproar occurred when the cover story of a publication by TÜBITAK was pulled, reportedly because it focused on Darwin’s theory of evolution."

33 of 444 comments (clear)

  1. Note to myself: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't hire people from Turkey, Kansas,...

  2. This is a country that wants in the EU by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, feel free to reapply in a few centuries.

    Actually, don't.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by velvet_stallion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Turkey doesn't seem to mind following behind the world by a couple of centuries. The Ottoman Empire refused to allow the printing press until 1729, but closed it, then reopened it again later in 1784. Same group objected to it as to evolution, the all-knowing theocratic wise men. Religion = Suppression of Thought. Science = Freedom of Thought.

    2. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's because they never managed to separate religion from politics.

      I'm not sayin religion is bad, but when you lead the country, you can't have two agendas. In this case, it's pretty obvious which won.

    3. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      they never managed to separate religion from politics

      Did they even try?

      I'm not sayin religion is bad

      Then I will. Religion exists because lights in the sky go boom and it doesn't rain when you want it to and things happen you can't understand.

      Guess what, today we can understand those things and so religion is quite literally at odds with modern life. Sure we dress it up and ignore the ugly parts 'we' don't like but then somebody else decides, hey smiting neighbors is a good thing and justifies it with the Bible or whatever your religious source is.

      If it ain't based on cold hard facts it has no business governing anyone other than the individual who believes it.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    4. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm from Texas. It's OK with me. Isn't there some paperwork we have to sign?

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    5. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Isaac Asimov

    6. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by Pseudonym · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Science has provided us everything that religion has historically promised, including the chance of a firey holocaust which destroys humanity Go science!.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    7. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "this is not unusual thing for Islamic countries."

            Not just Islamic countries. We still have "under god" in the pledge of allegiance. A phrase added during socialization in an attempt to program our children in the 1950's and has resulted with court battles by children to get rid of it. And how secular are we when someone sticking a ten commandments mural in a state building causes a giant court and public fight when it's obvious the damn thing shouldn't be there in the first place. Another phrase from the 1950's "Be the best you can be" or something like that pushed by a general when a more apt phrase might be "Be what you want to be". I won't get into the abortion, teaching creationism, and religious manipulation of politics. The US may have a secular government but it has a religious populace that just won't keep religion out of it. To be honest we're not that far from Turkey.

    8. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Guess what, today we can understand those things and so religion is quite literally at odds with modern life.

      Some religions are, some aren't. Most of the incompatibility comes from dogma, which varies over time and among sects. It may surprise you to know that several major religious sects support teaching evolution and actively oppose teaching creation.

      Sure we dress it up and ignore the ugly parts 'we' don't like but then somebody else decides, hey smiting neighbors is a good thing and justifies it with the Bible or whatever your religious source is.

      As if there were never another pretext for war besides the Bible, and all atheists were pacifists. People who want to smite their neighbors will make up a reason to do it, religion or no.

      If it ain't based on cold hard facts it has no business governing anyone other than the individual who believes it.

      I wholeheartedly agree that other people's religion should not govern me, and by the Golden Rule that also means my religion should not govern anyone else. However, I would point out that the separation of church and state, which you elegantly and passionately summarize here, is itself not based on "cold hard facts." It's ideology. Not all ideology is bad.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    9. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by cheater512 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not unusual in religious countries. How long has the US tried to do the same?

    10. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by ConfusedVorlon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would think it was pointless.

      Gilding the lilly. Why tarnish science with make believe?

      --
      VLC Remote for iPhone and Android
    11. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by sjames · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So your statement isn't categorical, but is confined to current religions you are aware of? That is an important distinction.

    12. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From the standpoint of social structure, there is a scientific basis for religion. Children who are told some being is watching are more likely to leave a plate of cookies alone when asked even if they don't believe that the being will do anything but watch.

      In general, people are more likely to behave in an ethical manner when they believe someone will see what they do, even if they don't expect any consequences for being seen.

      I would prefer that we let a benevolent sky being do the watching rather than the guys back at the precinct.

      That isn't to say that there isn't a long history of organized religion abusing the power of belief for their own ends, of course. That is what I personally object to. Perhaps if the abusers had actually believed someone was watching...

    13. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by martin-boundary · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Christianity, and especially the vatican, are extremely pro-science compared to other religions.

      Wrong. Like any religion, they lay claim to the "higher" truth. What you are talking about is tolerance of a "lower" scientific truth as long as it doesn't usurp the more important higher truth being claimed by the religion. And even that was paid in blood.

      To put it bluntly, scientific knowledge is incompatible with gods. We know it, they know it. To preserve face and influence, christian religions will acknowledge science's truth while falsely claiming that there is another truth out there (unproven and full of logically inconsistent claims) which is nevertheless claimed to be coexistent and ultimately more important. Basically, religion is like the kid who says to your face he'll clean up his room but never actually does it.

    14. Re:This is a country that wants in the EU by riverat1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you are right. I've been told several times over the years by religious people that I can't be a moral person because I don't believe in God. My response is that if it requires fear of God to make you act morally then you really aren't very moral but just reacting to the threat of punishment. If you do the right thing even though no one's looking (including God) then you can really call yourself a moral person.

  3. Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standout by kannibal_klown · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, I thought the US was the only stand-out / weird-country with anti-evolution nuts in power.

    I guess there are other countries in this unfortunate "club"

    If you don't want to believe in it (or that it's even possible) then fine... believe in whatever you want.

    But stop trying to prevent other people from learning it. Please. And please stop trying to pass religion off as science... such as those museums that say Adam rode on a dinosaur, and that dinosaurs were vegens until the apple incident.

  4. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, I thought the US was the only stand-out / weird-country with anti-evolution nuts in power.

    The US is just the squeakiest wheel, because we have an open press and debate our problems for the whole world to see. I can easily believe other countries have plenty of dirty laundry and just keep it to themselves.

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
  5. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by sribe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow, I thought the US was the only stand-out / weird-country with anti-evolution nuts in power.

    ARE YOU KIDDING? Please tell us you were kidding, that you're not *that* provincial, that you believe Western rationalism really is the norm throughout the entire world, including Muslim countries and Africa?

  6. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by medv4380 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Incorrect. Only countries where a religious group believes that evolution is in opposition to their religion does that happen. In India 85% believe that Evolution is compatible with their religious beliefs, and I wouldn't consider Hindus to be any less crazy than any other religion out there.

  7. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by DdJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you kidding? You just presented direct evidence that they're less crazy than other religions.

  8. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by similar_name · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No one is trying to teach evolution in church. Plenty try to teach religion in science class. How do so many people not understand the difference?

  9. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because what you believe is true, doesn't make you not crazy.

  10. Ebooks by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I suspect that Richard Dawkins & co. may be more than willing to distribute Turkish translations of their books on their own initiative. ;-) Perhaps even for free, it's not such a big market, and Haharun Hahayaya needs some counterweight anyway.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  11. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by medv4380 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the whole Untouchable and Cast System keeps them firmly in the "They're Just As Crazy as Everyone Else" territory. Regardless of their position on Evolution.

  12. and just like that... by rastoboy29 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the Scientific and Technical Research Council of Turkey (TÃoeBITAK) lost all international credibility with other technical and scientific organizations.

    --
    expandfairuse.org
  13. Re:I don't think they want in anymore by alexander_686 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It does run both ways.

    For years the EU has been putting up barriers and slowing down the processes that has stalled the talked for the better part of a decade. This ranges from petty (Greece & Cyprus) to cheap political grandstanding (Islamophobia, cheap labor). Would you want to join a club where the petty internal politics didn’t want you? And this was before the financial crisis.

    Personally, I think if Turkey had been allowed to join this would have cemented Turkey into a secular block allowing them to be a bridge between Europe and the Middle East.

  14. Re:‘evolution censor' was denied the next da by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The evidence provided in the denial seems to be true i.e., it seems like the original cited story was at least partially false.

    The fact that none of the other newspapers picked up this story like they did for something substantially less in 2009 and the lack of public uproar in Turkey adds to the evidence that the original piece of news was not entirely true.

    I am more fascinated by the fact that, even though the essence of the news seems plausible, no one bothered to check it or discuss whether it is true or not.

  15. The word is mightier than the God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because God can't be defended in the face of facts and ideas, the words of science must be stopped.

  16. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Excellent post from someone who has obviously traveled further than the corner store. Re Genocide, The US committed genocide against the native Indians and my own country committed genocide against the Aborigines, "our people" look away from that history in the same way Turks look away from theirs.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  17. Re:Wow, I thought we (the US) was the only standou by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Over the years I've noticed this is a pretty common theme on Slashdot - You could post a story about some backwater, torture-filled nation lead by some despotic religious zealot and 26 replies will immediately say "Yeah, but the USA is TEN TIMES WORSE!"

    Over the years I've noticed this is a pretty common theme on Slashdot - people point out problems in other countries, others draw parallels to the US and some pseudo-patriot type comes along and exaggerates those parallels in order to complain about the people pointing them out.

    The problem with your complaining is that while Americans have very little influence over other what other governments do in other countries, here at least we claim to have the democratic process in order to fix our own problems. But you can't fix what you don't know about. "My country, right or wrong. If right to be kept right, if wrong to be set right."

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  18. Why does Turkey allow books other than the Qur'an? by Eric+Smith · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If they agree with the Qur'an they're redundant, and if they disagree they're heretical.

  19. Re:Will this discourge US evolution denialism? by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    tribal allegiance first

    logical coherence a distant second

    so sorry, no

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it