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Researchers Explain Why Flu Comes In the Winter

First time accepted submitter ggrocca writes "Using human mucus as a testbed for how well influenza virus thrives in different humidity conditions, researchers at Virginia Tech found that the virus survived best if humidity is below 50%, a typical indoor situation during the winter in temperate climates due to artificial heating. The virus begins to find itself at home again only when humidity reaches almost 100%. Unsurprisingly, the latter finding explains flu spikes during rainy season in tropical climates. Full paper on PLOS ONE."

129 comments

  1. Interesting by findoutmoretoday · · Score: 0

    But influenza is not exactly something new. Why is this a new discovery?

    1. Re:Interesting by thaylin · · Score: 2

      Why it seems to always be an epidemic in the winter is a new discovery, I mean unless you knew it was about the humidity and did not share with the rest of the world.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    2. Re:Interesting by ra25093 · · Score: 1

      Nobody thought of it before? A lot of research comes from a single "wait a minute, why does this happen?" Most people thought it was related to temperature, then most people thought temperature was an old wives' tale but had no idea the reason.

    3. Re:Interesting by Yaotzin · · Score: 2

      It's been a widely supported theory for some time but perhaps, never proven until now.

      --
      Error: No error occurred
    4. Re:Interesting by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is really interesting is how many of these old hand-me-down tidbits from Grandma wind up being rooted in accuracy, even if the underlying logic is flawed. The existence of recorded information has been a boon to modern medical practices, but prior to the very last few generations, how much accurate medical knowledge one had access to was directly proportionate to the quality of the info passed down through the matriarchal network.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    5. Re:Interesting by alen · · Score: 1

      The holidays are mostly in the winter along with people staying indoors because its cold

      For a long time it was thought that people getting together passed the virus

    6. Re:Interesting by quenda · · Score: 1

      Explain this: I live in Australia (holidays primarily in summer), in a mediterranean (south calif.) climate. Hot dry summers (low humidity) and wet winters (high humidity), with few people having central heating (it ain't cold enough to bother). Yet we still have winter as flu season. Hypothesis dismissed.

    7. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, dryer air also dries the mucus membranes in the sinuses, making ithem work less effecectively, and making it easier for viruses to penetrate this primary defense system in the body. This is believed to be one of the reasons why you are mre likely to get sick aftercairvtravel ( very low humidity on planes).

    8. Re:Interesting by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 1

      The virus begins to find itself at home again only when humidity reaches almost 100%. Unsurprisingly, the latter finding explains flu spikes during rainy season in tropical climates.

      That answer your question? I didn't even have to read further than the summary to find that (I'm an Australian too, btw).

    9. Re:Interesting by quenda · · Score: 1

      That answer your question? I didn't even have to read further than the summary to find that (I'm an Australian too, btw).

      No, Perth is certainly not that humid in winter, maybe 60-70%. And less humid in summer.

    10. Re:Interesting by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm not a scientist, and I've conducted no fancy experiments... but based on what I already knew, I just kind of assumed that humidity was a key factor. Considering, you know, it goes straight to shit in the winter, once the furnace starts coming on constantly. I get nosebleeds as the humidity lowers, and again closer to spring sometimes (though around spring it could just be the reintroduction of pollen). It's a pathetic 16% humidity in here right now, which is so damn low it even makes 70 feel relatively chilly. And it could be even lower--I've never even seen it go below 16%, so it's possible that's just the lowest it will read. As far as temperature goes, that doesn't really change much throughout the year... 70-74 when the furnace regulates it, and up to 95 or so in the summer, with the occasional slightly higher temperature.

      Of course, it doesn't help the fact that people tend to be inside more often when it's cold out. Well... actually that does help... the viruses. Perfect survival conditions, and lots of people around sneezing to spread them. It's like a flu paradise. Those damn viruses should be thanking us, but all we get is infections.

    11. Re:Interesting by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2

      This is really, really interesting.

      I haven't had the flu. Not ever. I've got two dehumidifiers running full time to keep my house at 60% humidity. I pull several gallons of water out of the air every day. With them off (if I forget to empty the tanks before I leave for work) it'll creep up to 90% humidity.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    12. Re:Interesting by catchblue22 · · Score: 1

      I read something similar a few years ago, but the connection was made between absolute humidity and the survival of influenza. On reading this article, it seems unclear to me what type of humidity is being referred to...absolute or relative. Leave it to the Wall Street Journal to write a crappy scientific article. I suppose relative humidity is usually measured in percentages, but still.

      What I found most compelling about the idea of absolute humidity being the important factor was that it explains why influenza is less common in Phoenix, for example. Hot desert areas usually have low relative humidity, but the absolute humidity in grams H2O per cubic metre is usually quite high.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    13. Re:Interesting by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 1

      I wish I had to just worry about keeping the humidity level down. I have a dehumidifier that I use in the summer to keep it around 35-40%. If it didn't get so hot, I'd just let it creep up to 55 or so percent humidity (it seems to stop not too much higher anyway), but 88 at 50% humidity feels like complete shit; no number of fans will really correct that. A humidifier would be useful for whenever the furnace is on, but I have to question how well they will work... they mostly have tiny "tanks" that look like they wouldn't even hold enough water to make a pot of tea, and I'd be surprised if they could humidify even one closed room for a full 24 hours. And then most of them are the trash type that don't even use pure heat to properly evaporate the water (like a stove), so they would most likely end up putting a mineral deposit layer on everything near it.

      I've been trying to figure out a way around this for a while now.

    14. Re:Interesting by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      >even if the underlying logic is flawed

      Because it's not logic that underlies it, but something more fundamental - experience.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    15. Re:Interesting by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      This is really, really interesting.

      I haven't had the flu. Not ever. I've got two dehumidifiers running full time to keep my house at 60% humidity. I pull several gallons of water out of the air every day. With them off (if I forget to empty the tanks before I leave for work) it'll creep up to 90% humidity.

      Same here on the dehumidifiers. Guess it's about what part of the world you live in.

    16. Re:Interesting by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 1

      Seriously, haven't you experienced the last few weeks of 80-90% humidity with record temperatures here? Also, winter humidity on most days does hover around 60-70% yes, but that's an AVERAGE day. We still experience plenty of days during winter at around 90-100%.

    17. Re:Interesting by craigminah · · Score: 1

      I've wondered why people get sick in the winter and assumed it was due to the dry air...seemed pretty obvious finding proof is the part that made news.

    18. Re:Interesting by David_W · · Score: 1

      And it could be even lower--I've never even seen it go below 16%, so it's possible that's just the lowest it will read.

      VERY very possible... I have 3 in the house. One bottoms out at 16, the other two switch to ---% when it is below 15. Oh, and the one in this room is reading 16 right now... yay.

    19. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know you've never, ever had the flu before? You've never had a cold either? Because most of the symptoms of the flu and a cold are nearly identical, and if you have a mild flu there is really no way to distinguish it from a cold without doing a lab test, something that almost never, ever happens when you feel you are just having a mild cold.

    20. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh and another thing, unless you stay mostly home *and* have a whole bunch of people running in and out of your house, your home is probably least likely place you to pickup the flu.
      You pick it up in places where you are in contact with other people, like your work place for example, or the supermarket, or some public transport...
      If you would just sit around at home and never meet other people, you could probably go a whole lifetime without getting a flu.

    21. Re:Interesting by rmdingler · · Score: 2

      Well put. Of course,which experiences are causation and which are correlation are still in the eye of the observing matriarch. I hope mine is logical.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    22. Re:Interesting by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 0

      Well... all it takes is one person to sneeze in a public place, the virus gets transferred to another person, and then they can easily transfer that to everyone who lives in the house. All it takes is one trip to the store at the wrong time... so while you can go without getting the flu often at all, I doubt you could go an entire lifetime without it. It's almost impossible; how would someone do such requirements as go to school and work, as well as the necessary grocery shopping? I rarely ever get the flu myself, and when I do get it it's often somewhat mild. But a few times I did get some really damn nasty ones.

      I more often get a cold, or at least something mild that more closely resembles a cold, but even then--as someone else mentioned--they are both similar. The "symptoms" are not caused by the virus itself, but by your body's reaction; an attempt to eliminate the invader. People with less reactive immune systems may not even know they caught anything at all, or mistake the weak symptoms for a cold. And people with a strong immune system are less likely to get infected in the first place, even if they are exposed to a virus.

    23. Re:Interesting by BZ · · Score: 1

      Also about your heating source. Burning natural gas or using steam radiators puts a lot more water in the air than burning oil does.

    24. Re:Interesting by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that... I have a natural gas heater and, as I said, the humidity plummets when it runs a lot.

    25. Re:Interesting by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      Also about your heating source. Burning natural gas or using steam radiators puts a lot more water in the air than burning oil does.

      The past few years I have only had the heat on one or two nights a year. It really doesn't get very cold for extended periods here. I end up having to set the AC fan to "on" instead of "auto" just to circulate the air in the house.

    26. Re: Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean forced air and electric reduce humidity more, hot water heaters less irrelevant of what's heating the water

    27. Re:Interesting by Spugglefink · · Score: 2

      Those damn viruses should be thanking us, but all we get is infections.

      But that is how they thank us! "Hello, thank you for giving me a great environment in which to thrive, as a gift, I offer you some D/RNA.

    28. Re:Interesting by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... actually, you have a point... and that DNA/RNA likely gets passed onto any offspring. The only problem is, viruses mutate and evolve, which causes older immune resistance to be virtually useless against newer strains of the virus... so in that case, the little bastards are just bloating our offspring's DNA for no reason!

    29. Re:Interesting by gewalker · · Score: 1

      And since correlation is not causation, it still has not been proven. Other correlations include, the amount of time spend indoors around other people, Levels of vitamin D (reduced sunlight, less D), reduced overall physical fitness due to less physical activity, and changes in sleep behavior due to reduced daylight hours.

    30. Re:Interesting by BZ · · Score: 1

      Sure. It would just plummet even more if it were an oil heater.

    31. Re:Interesting by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Both of these time frames have something else in common though.

      People are out in the open less, and in closed areas more, to avoid the weather - touching more of the same things more often, and breathing more recirculated air with micro water droplets form coughs and sneezes.

      There are a lot of factors for the flu, it's not a one-cause-fits-all thing.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
  2. First by JustOK · · Score: 0

    First sneeze

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
    1. Re:First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just too slow when you've got the flu

    2. Re:First by Mike+Frett · · Score: 0

      That's the Common Cold.

    3. Re:First by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Hardly common, I had it custom made.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
  3. Oh, really? by Banichi · · Score: 1

    Where does Madagascar fit in that theory?

    1. Re:Oh, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's entertaining to watch while you're stuck on the couch with flu.

    2. Re:Oh, really? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      The virus begins to find itself at home again only when humidity reaches almost 100%. Unsurprisingly, the latter finding explains flu spikes during rainy season in tropical climates.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    3. Re:Oh, really? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, packing that many kids in a theater IS asking for trouble.

    4. Re:Oh, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does compute. It simply means that the survivability curve is nonlinear. It's U-shaped, concave up.

    5. Re:Oh, really? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      I was pointing out why it explains Madagascar, a tropic region, not disputing anything. That it expands at 2 points and drops elsewhere shows logically that it is nonlinear.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    6. Re:Oh, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Madagascar is fairly irrelevant to this. I mean, the virus would have to reach it first before survivability comes into question, which it can't because the port is always closed.

    7. Re:Oh, really? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      And the AC didn't claim that you dispute anything.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  4. Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have asked this question for years without a satisfactory response. Finally, a scientific answer!

  5. something doesnt add up by Ruede · · Score: 1

    wait, the virus survives best @ 50% humidity and less - but the virus feels at home @ nearly 100% humidity? does not compute

    1. Re:something doesnt add up by yeshuawatso · · Score: 4, Informative

      It does add up if you read the article. The virus survives in humidity levels below 50% and above 98% since 98% simulates the human body. It doesn't fair as well at humidity levels between 60-80%.

    2. Re:something doesnt add up by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 1

      "But in between, in a humidity of 50% to 98%, the virus doesn't survive very well."

      Strange but true.

      --
      Just saying it like it are.
    3. Re:something doesnt add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Acrually, all it means is that the survivability curve is nonlinear. It's going to be roughly U-shaped, concave up.

    4. Re:something doesnt add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What surprises me is that the study quotes relative humidity values. I would expect absolute humidity values to be the key. Colder air has less ability to hold water, therefore a relative humidity of, e.g., 50% at 0 degrees means something completely different than would 50% humidity at 30 degrees.

    5. Re:something doesnt add up by thaylin · · Score: 1

      It could be that as you heat the air in your house the relative humidity goes down, for that exact reason.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    6. Re:something doesnt add up by raymorris · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The virus is like a noodle - kept dry, it lasts a long time. Thoroughly wet, it does it's thing. Slightly moist, it goes bad.

    7. Re:something doesnt add up by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      It's like how humans survive best if they don't sit on the couch in the basement eating cheetos and watching Big Bang Theory on an endless loop, but we sure do feel at home there.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    8. Re:something doesnt add up by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      "But in between, in a humidity of 50% to 98%, the virus doesn't survive very well."

      Strange but true.

      And yet, when they grow the virus to create the vacinne it is in a laboratory with a humidity of 50% to 98%.

    9. Re:something doesnt add up by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Excellent analogy.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:something doesnt add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not a car analogy, but good shit anyway.

      It's like your fuel pump. Put your.... eh nevermind.

    11. Re:something doesnt add up by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      You analogy is like mango lassi I just had - it's excellent.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    12. Re:something doesnt add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The virus is like a noodle - kept dry, it lasts a long time. Thoroughly wet, it does it's thing. Slightly moist, it goes bad.

      Just don't get the two confused while you're cooking!

    13. Re:something doesnt add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The virus is like a noodle - kept dry, it lasts a long time. Thoroughly wet, it does it's thing. Slightly moist, it goes bad.

      Well, if that isn't just a fantastic analogy. Bravo to you.

  6. Something else to keep in mind by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

    Just because central heating drives down the relative humidity to 50% indoors doesn't mean it's not also near 100% outdoors, where colder temperatures give much higher relative humidity for the same humidity ratio.

    1. Re:Something else to keep in mind by thaylin · · Score: 2

      What is the point? So, it does not survive as well outside, except in our systems, but it will still thrive in your home.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    2. Re:Something else to keep in mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, it survives well outside and thrives in your home.

    3. Re:Something else to keep in mind by pz · · Score: 1

      When it is cold outside, mucus membranes (in the nose, most importantly for this discussion) go into overdrive. We get sniffly noses, whether we have an active nasal infection or not, and sniffle more often than in the summer. Much more often.

      So, if someone who has a sniffly nose happens to wipe said nose with their hand and then immediately touches something else, say a doorknob, or a light switch, or a keyboard, or the cup of coffee the barrista just handed you, or a hand in a handshake, then, there's a higher probability that you'll do the reverse, and touch your nose, eyes, or mouth, closing the transmission path. This transmission path happens at a certain rate during the summer, but it happens more often during the winter, just because our noses tend to be sniffly from the cold.

      Even ignoring variability in viral reaction to relative humidity, I've always thought that the variation in transmission probability due to outdoor temperature was enough to drive the seasonal variation in colds and the flu.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  7. Artificial heating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Huh? It's that there's just less humidity in the air in the winter. And since my inside air comes from the outside, it follows that it would be drier inside. Unless heating burns the water? What kind of nonsense is this? If it's 21C in a room in summer and 21C in the same room in winter due to "artificial heating", how can the water in the air tell the difference? "Quick guys, it's winter, we need to dissociate into hydrogen and oxygen so we can fool the humans into thinking it's the baseboards"

    Very silly. When it's humid outside, it's humid inside.

    1. Re:Artificial heating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      look up how central heating works. It does drive the moisture out of the air.

    2. Re:Artificial heating? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      The reason it is called air conditioning is not just because it heats and cools your home/work/car is also because it lowers the humidity. This is one of the reasons why you can turn on ice cold air in your car and it will still defrost your windows to an extent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_conditioning An air conditioner (often referred to as AC) is a major or home appliance, system, or mechanism designed to change the air temperature and humidity within an area

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    3. Re:Artificial heating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No air conditioner heats the inside air. I live in an apartment with cheap and cheerful electric baseboards. No central air, no nothing. Just resistors in a box and air from the outside. It gets drier in winter on its own. And if it gets more humid outside in winter because climate change makes it rain in January, well guess what? My humidity rises inside as well.

      I know because I have a RH meter at my desk. When the temperature swings by 20C overnight to -20, it gets much drier inside, low 30s. That's when I turn on my cheap and cheerful water boiler thing until it hits about 50.

    4. Re:Artificial heating? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      So it means you have a heater, not an air conditioner. Most people have air conditioners.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    5. Re:Artificial heating? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Absolute humidity is how much moisture there is in the air total relative humdity is how much moisture there is in the air compared to the ammount it can hold at that temperature. When you heat your house with a sealed heating system (heating with an open fire is more complex because there is water in the combustion prducts) the absolute humidity stays the same but the relative humidity drops.

      And relative humidity not absolute humidity is what we generally care about.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    6. Re:Artificial heating? by SrLnclt · · Score: 2

      Try looking at a psychometric chart sometime. Heating does not change the amount of moisture in the air. Air can hold more moisture at higher temperatures, which is why air feels "dryer" when it is heated coming out of your furnace.

      Or you could stick a bucket under your condensate drain off your AC/furnace and see how much water collects in the winter.

  8. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Feb 2009 article found the same thing:
    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-11/health/healthmag.humidifier.flu_1_humidity-water-vapor-winter-flu-season?_s=PM:HEALTH

  9. How do they explain dry areas? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

    In Phoenix, relative humidity is below 50% on average from April thru September. In Albuquerque, it's March through June. Does flu hold out year round in those areas?

    1. Re:How do they explain dry areas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you. I was going to make that same point.

  10. Well, it is also linked to less vitamin D by transporter_ii · · Score: 2

    The virus is around year round. However, in the winter you stay inside and get less sunlight...thus less vitamin D.

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
    1. Re:Well, it is also linked to less vitamin D by transporter_ii · · Score: 5, Informative
      --
      Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
    2. Re:Well, it is also linked to less vitamin D by PRMan · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not to mention that your immune system is compromised trying to keep you warm in cold weather. But why let that common, eternal wisdom get in the way of a new study?

      And isn't it dry in cold places like Colorado in the winter? When I was there, it was so dry I got nosebleeds just because of the dryness. And yet people were still getting colds by the dozens.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    3. Re:Well, it is also linked to less vitamin D by thaylin · · Score: 2

      First there is no empirical link between the temperature dropping and the weakening your immune system, that could be, and possibly is, an old wives tale. A previous study showed that the people must likely to get sick during the winter are those with already weakened immune systems. Also the study said it thrives at the following x50 and x is approximately 100, therefore 0-49% humidity falls within those parameters.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    4. Re:Well, it is also linked to less vitamin D by TheLink · · Score: 1

      maybe there's a higher amount of virus in blood laden snot.

      --
    5. Re:Well, it is also linked to less vitamin D by transporter_ii · · Score: 2

      > And yet people were still getting colds by the dozens

      I've been a vegetarian off and on over my life. Right now, I have just been trying to eat better, exercise a little more, and I consider myself to be a flextarian (I eat meat, just way less of it than typical Americans).

      During times of eating right, I get sick a fraction of what my friends and family do, but if I eat the Standard American Diet, I get sick every time someone sneezes around me.

      Right now, almost every single co-worker I have at work has been deathly ill this winter...I've had the sniffles a couple of times. I'm not saying I'm bulletproof, but I know very well from first-hand anecdotal evidence that Americans bring a lot of pain and suffering upon themselves due to diet/lifestyle factors.

      See:

      http://consumer.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=666526

      --
      Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
    6. Re:Well, it is also linked to less vitamin D by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      If this is true, then why not have everyone take Vitamin D supplements during the winter, instead of giving them flu shots?

  11. Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cold windows do.

    1. Re:Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by thaylin · · Score: 1

      No one said that heat alone removes humility, a roaring fire in the fireplace will not remove humidity, but that is not how conditioners work.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    2. Re:Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by PPH · · Score: 3, Informative

      Relative humidity. The ability of air to absorb water goes up with its temperature. So, for a fixed amount of moisture in a quantity of air, when you heat it, its capacity to absorb more goes up.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "a typical indoor situation during the winter in temperate climates due to artificial heating."

    4. Re:Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

      No, but the steady flow of water coming from the condenser on my furnace is a pretty good clue that it is removing water.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    5. Re:Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um...

      CH4 + 2 O2 --> CO2 + 2 H2O

      If you burn any hydrogen containing fuel, you end up with extra water, even if you don't change the moisture content of the surrounding air.

    6. Re:Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by PPH · · Score: 1

      Right. And I'll venture a guess that its a high efficiency gas furnace. Those attain their high efficiency by removing so much heat from the combustion gas that the water produced by combustion condenses out. There's also quite a bit of energy released by that condensation itself (latent heat of vaporization). So that water isn't extracted from the conditioned (room) air. It's from the combustion gas.

      Different story for air conditioners, of course.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    7. Re:Heat does NOT REMOVE humidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the steady flow of cum from my penis into your mom is a pretty good clue as to why she's happier these days.

  12. How does school and holiday travel figure in? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

    I always figured schools were a big part of it. Pack 25-35 kids in a classroom. Reshuffle the kids 6 to 8 times per day. It's an ideal environment for spreading any contagious disease.

    So are airplanes.

    1. Re:How does school and holiday travel figure in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Schools and planes are also packed during warm weather as well, but Influenza occurs much more often in cold weather. that was teh point of this article.

    2. Re:How does school and holiday travel figure in? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Schools are mandatory, the people are owned by the state, not free.

      That's stupid, we have mandatory schools because most people wanted it. If you want to change things, you need to convince people around you to change. Good luck.

      All around the world and no escape.

      No, you are confused, because it is hard to live with people. If you live in a house with 5 people, sometimes they will ask you to clean. It's annoying, I know. If you live in a country with 300 million people, sometimes they will also impose their will on you. It's annoying, but living with people is hard, even if you're the king.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:How does school and holiday travel figure in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone ignore this troll.

    4. Re:How does school and holiday travel figure in? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      People impose their will on you via the state not because you want to or it is necessary to live in a group

      People impose their will on you via the state because historically it has proven better than everyone trying to impose their will on each other via threats and violence.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:How does school and holiday travel figure in? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      So are airplanes.

      Aeroplanes are actually cleaner than most office buildings due to the fact they have better quality HEPA filters.

      The reason most people feel sick from air travel is the extremely low relative humidity on-board (6%) which leads most people to get dehydrated because they dont drink enough water. Add alcohol into the mix and you have people becoming extremely dehydrated. If I dont drink enough water on a flight over 4 hours, I'll usually get off with hangover like symptoms (dizziness, headache, slight nausea), its caused by dehydration, the same as if I'd been on the turps the night before. I'm serious about the dehydration issue on aircraft, most people end up drinking alcohol or diuretic soft drinks which makes the whole thing worse.

      What you're more likely to get sick from is using airport facilities, people who dont wash their hands in facilities that get used a lot before they are cleaned.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:How does school and holiday travel figure in? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      People impose their will on you via the state because historically it has proven better than everyone trying to impose their will on each other via threats and violence.

      People impose their will on you via the state because historically the state has been shown to have the power to impose its will on others, and to be able to beat off competitors. If the state had not been able to beat off its competitors, we would not have the state because its competitors would have beaten it.

      Really. It's just that simple.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    7. Re:How does school and holiday travel figure in? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Are you an anarchist or something? I can tell you're not a student of history.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  13. And this nothing to do with.. by drewsup · · Score: 1

    the fact that when it's cold outside, more people are inside, especially communal indoor places like malls, food halls, etc. A more efficient route of transfer?

    1. Re:And this nothing to do with.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fun anecdote: Here in Iowa, we were shut in for the Holidays due to snow and cold. On New Years' Eve, downtown they had an indoor kid-friendly event. We were determined to get out of the house by then. So the whole city ended up bringing their kids to one indoor location.

      Yep, brought home the flu, sure enough! We're still recovering.

  14. All the research in the world means nothing.... by bossk538 · · Score: 1

    My wife *knows* it is caused by exposure to cold weather :)

  15. Cold? by Outthere057 · · Score: 1

    I work outside year round with a week or two off when its really cold. (below 20 F). I hardly ever get sick. Yes I'll get head colds runny nose and maybe a light cough but who doesn't when the weather is changing. but as far a s the flu. almost never. I can only think of twice in the last 17 years and the firs time I still worked.

    --
    "Drive Fast Kill Slow"
    1. Re:Cold? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      If you are doing manual labor then you till probably have a very strong immune system

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    2. Re:Cold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, a head cold or cough means you're sick.

    3. Re:Cold? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      I work outside year round with a week or two off when its really cold. (below 20 F). I hardly ever get sick. Yes I'll get head colds runny nose and maybe a light cough but who doesn't when the weather is changing. but as far a s the flu. almost never. I can only think of twice in the last 17 years and the firs time I still worked.

      Because for the flu to spread or even the common cold, you have to come into contact with an infected person. Most likely, there are fewer people you come into contact with in the course of your work than say in an office building and therefore the likelihood of you coming into contact with an infected person is even less.

      It is the same reason why the monks in the middle ages survived the plague that decimated the towns. Since they were isolated from the infected people (or fleas), they did not contract it. If you study pandamecis, they almost always hit metropolitan areas and not rural areas, or at least not to the same extent.

    4. Re:Cold? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      That should have been "If you study epidemics..." not pandamecis, which is not only mispelled, but by the time a pandemic occurs, it hits both city and country alike.

    5. Re:Cold? by Outthere057 · · Score: 1

      Not really I could have drainage witch will cause me to cough and feel fine. With as much as the weather changes around where i live 60 one day down to 15 at night 2 days later usually leads to minor sinus problems. I have a friend who would be sick for days every time there was a big change in the weather.

      --
      "Drive Fast Kill Slow"
    6. Re:Cold? by Outthere057 · · Score: 1

      I did a lot of playing in the dirt when i was a kid and I guess I do now too. I think that is part of the problem now days is people are trying to keep their kids out of the dirt so they never build tolerances and end up being sicker more often when older.

      --
      "Drive Fast Kill Slow"
  16. Indoor vs. Outdoor Conditions by SrLnclt · · Score: 1

    Typical indoor HVAC design conditions: Summer - 75F / 50% RH, Winter - 70F / 30% RH. So indoors I would think the virus would survive well year round, just better during winter.

    Outdoors the air temperature might swing 20-30F between the day and night. This is going to swing the RH levels in an even wider range - maybe between 20% and 80% depending on season, time of day, local climate etc.

    I would think the virus survival would correlate better with time periods when there isn't much change in the outdoor air temperature/humidity levels for several days during winter, rather than anything with indoor conditions.

  17. Vitamin D hypothesis -- low levels in winter by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 4, Informative

    In winter, people make little to no vitamin D: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_and_influenza

    Even in places near the equator, if people stay indoors to avoid rain, they will have lower vitamin D levels, unless they supplement.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    1. Re:Vitamin D hypothesis -- low levels in winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How then do you explain the average /.er's penchant for living in their parent's basement 24/7. As a basement dweller myself, I rarely ever seen the sun. Yet, I get the flu during the winter seasons myself as well and not any time during the year. This seems to refute your presumption it has anything to do with vitamin D. I much prefer the humidity explanation.

    2. Re:Vitamin D hypothesis -- low levels in winter by cpotoso · · Score: 2

      YOU don't get the flu other than in winter because there is nobody to transmit it to you. On the other hand, you probably do not interact with anybody so it is a mystery how you get it... :)

    3. Re:Vitamin D hypothesis -- low levels in winter by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Even in places near the equator, if people stay indoors to avoid rain,

      Near the equator, people stay indoors during daylight hours to avoid the heat. Rain mostly comes during the evening anyway.

  18. Dr. Joel Fuhrman would agree by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2

    http://www.drfuhrman.com/shop/super_immunity_book.aspx

    Things to be aware of that he would mention:
    * vitamin D deficiency
    * iodine deficiency
    * B-complex deficiency
    * omega-3s deficiency
    * eat a lot of vegetables, fruits, and beans, and some nuts, seeds, and whole grains
    * avoid refined sugars and grains
    * avoid food additives (artificial colors, artificial flavors, most preservatives)

    Many vegans and vegetarians eat a refined starch-heavy diet with too little vegetables and so are sicker than meat-eaters who also eat a lot of veggies.

    In the case of influenza, a lot of it is probably due to vitamin D deficiency in the winter, whether from the Earth's tilt relative to the sun or from cloudy weather and stay indoors in rainy season near the Equator. People probably generally eat less vegetables in winter, too.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  19. Flaw in the study by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

    There is a major flaw in the study. First it states that the flu virus thrives in humidity conditions below 50% which explains why in the winter we have these outbreaks. However, with modern heating and cooling systems, indoor humidity levels are almost always below 50%. At 55% is where mold begins to grow, so unless your home or office is damp enough to grow mold, chances are that year round you are at 50% or less humidity, not just during the winter.

    The other flaw is that the researchers point out that the humidity needs to be low as in a room with "...really heated air..." so that the mucos droplets evaporates leaving the virus to float freely. That is not going to be your typical living space, because if it is hot enough to be evaporating mucus droplets in the air then it is either really hot (85 deg F or greater) or really dry, less than 25% humidity, which would mean that most people would be having nosebleeds and other problems.

    So, while the research may be accurate on the zones that the virus does best in, it does not actually translate into the environments we live in and explain the outbreaks we see.

    1. Re:Flaw in the study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is 70F and 17%RH indoors right now. Nosebleeds are kept at bay with a humidifier running 24/7, otherwise it would be below 10%RH. Yes, the air is REALLY dry.

    2. Re:Flaw in the study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I live (temperate climate), relative humidity oscillates annually between 75% and 90%, with humidity highest in winter. Yet we still get the winter flu waves. (Although an occasional summer flu isn't quite unheard of.)

    3. Re:Flaw in the study by Endlisnis · · Score: 1

      If your humidity is only 17% with a humidifier running 24/7, you need a better humidifier. I had trouble keeping my place above 15% two years ago during the winter, but then I got a central humidifier and I can now choose any humidity level I want. It has no trouble keeping it even as high as 50%.

  20. low humidity by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 1

    "...the winter in temperate climates due to artificial heating."

    Is anyone else missing the lower humidity we generally have in the winter -outside- in temperate climates due to it, you know, being cold?

  21. girlfriend from tropical country by geekymachoman · · Score: 1

    Said to me, today actually, cuz she have a "common flu" at this moment, is that usually she gets it in "cool season". Which means from December till February/March.

    Raining season or hot season, no problems. But cool season*... problems.

    *= Cool .. 33 at day 22-25 at night, low humidity.

  22. Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It really doesn't tell me why does the federal government puts out flu. Population control. We need real research into that.

  23. Never ever touch your eyes or nose ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never ever touch your eyes or nose, wash your hands often and you will very likely avoid getting the flu.

    By the way, the overall conditions of winter (cold weather outside, dry air inside) make people much more likely to touch their eyes and nose. Observe people in hospital even at the peak of the flu season and you will see them sooner or later touch their face while waiting.

  24. Drainage witch by tepples · · Score: 1

    Not really I could have drainage witch

    Is a "drainage witch" anything like a Ditch Witch?

  25. part nature, part human engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suspect that the body getting cold lowers resistance. The other reason is that they purposely release these flus to make us sick.

  26. The cheap humidistats from Wal-Mart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it one of these things?

    I bought four of them a few years ago. They don't go below 16%. They also differ in their opinions of the humidity by as much as 20%, even when they're all sitting right next to each other. Indeed, one had to be placed in incredibly moist air, otherwise it never displayed anything other than 16%.

  27. Doesn't explain dry climates by lightbounce · · Score: 1

    What about places such as Wyoming and Colorado that are dry (under 50%) for most of the year?

    Also, my family had a hog farm growing up. The hogs were outside exposed to the elements. Every November in the early '80s we got hit with a major influenza outbreak in the hogs approaching 100% among the hogs weighing 60 to 180 lbs. There was no major change in the humidity, and didn't depend on rain or other weather events. Assuming the infection mechanism is similar (and certainly the influenza viruses were similar or the same since hogs are the source of many influenza virus mutations crossing over to humans), how does this result explain this?