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Amsterdam Using Airbnb Listings To Identify Illegal Hotels

An anonymous reader writes "In a move that might dampen the popularity of Airbnb's site for Amsterdam, the city government is now using the accommodation listing service as a source of tips about illegal rental property. 'Airbnb is never a smoking gun,' said Jan-Jaap Eikelboom, spokesman for the city of Amsterdam, regarding use of the service. But the government does use Airbnb and its competitors to compare its own nuisance data with street listings on sites like Airbnb, and has been doing so for a while, he said. This combined information can come in handy when investigating suspicious buildings and can help with spotting illegal activity, he said."

25 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by nuckfuts · · Score: 4, Informative

    I for one have never heard of it.

    1. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    2. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 4, Informative

      The submitter could have done that just as easily and saved hundreds of people the effort.

    3. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 3, Funny

      There's one at the faggot's rear end.

      Wait, so straight people don't have one?! :O I guess that must be why so many of them talk so much shit!

    4. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In a rare turn for me, I'm going to guess they're more interested in making sure commercial places of accomodation are up to code for numerous health and safety reasons.

    5. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's really not rocket science. An "illegal hotel" is (of course) an unlicensed hotel.

      The reasons these are of concern is primarily safety. These kind of illegal hotels often violate basic fire safety rules, and are death-traps in case of a fire. Remember that most buildings in the inner city of Amsterdam are old (2-3 centuries old is not exceptional). If you cram dozens of people in such buildings without basic fire safety precautions and safety exits, that's a recipe for disaster. Indeed, people have died in fires in illegal hotels over the past years.

      In addition, these locations are crime magnets.

      So, is it so odd that the Amsterdam municipality wants to get rid of them? Me thinks not.

    6. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by leuk_he · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is exactly what the officail stance is...

      Volkskrant (dutch)

      Taxes, fire safety, and illegal rent.
      Illegal rent: social rented space that is sub-rented.

    7. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by lxs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In short,
      There is a huge shortage in affordable housing in Amsterdam and there is very little space to remedy this. Add to this that about 10% is owned as speculation objects by criminals with no tenants. Having unlicensed hotels and hostels on top of the 100 or so licensed hotels in these residential areas are a huge burden on the city and its inhabitants and also unfair competition to the businesses that do play by the rules.
      Only last year there was a deadly shootout in an unlicensed hotel at the end of my street. If you are a US citizen that is probably a daily occurrence for you, but here in Amsterdam it is kind of a big deal.

       

    8. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      I think that, by definition, the submitter always has first post.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    9. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      The attitude displayed in the parent post is why I'd much rather live in Amsterdam than Huston.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    10. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      A building can be safe for small numbers of people but unsafe for larger numbers. A single narrow winding staircase might be fine for evacuating two people, but be a problem for 10. This is why hotels, private homes, and houses rented for multiple occupancy all have different rules.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, that's just a strawman created by left wing ideologues. In fact, what's objectionable about these kinds of so-called "health and safety laws" is that

      We've really gotten to the point where food inspectors are part of the world collectivist left-wing conspiracy?

      Too much AM radio.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    12. Re:Are we all supposed to know what Airbnb is? by stenvar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've really gotten to the point where food inspectors are part of the world collectivist left-wing conspiracy?

      No, we merely have gotten to the point where people like you kill any political discussion by setting up one strawman after another.

  2. advertisment on my /. by someones · · Score: 2

    thats news to me.

  3. Re:This is the new norm. by Sique · · Score: 2

    And why do you specifically mention governments? Business also wants information. If I'm going to the store of a certain coffee seller for new capsules, they ask me lots of questions about the type of coffee machine, its location, the variants of coffee I prefer, how many people are using the machine etc.pp. Departement stores often ask me for my ZIP at the cashier. Online shops always want to know where I first heard of them. None of those information is necessary to proceed with the sale. I still get asked.
    As far as I know, hotels have strict rules what they have to report about their guests to the police (e.g. country of origin, home address and passport number), and thus the city of Amsterdam wants to know who has to report. If an acommodation service with publicly available information helps them to improve on their internal data, they will do it.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  4. Amsterdam is motivated due to safety concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Amsterdam needs to regulate hotels due to serious safety concerns. You know, checking for fire code regulations, that kind of thing. If the city doesn't do it, then people just 'trust' the people running the place to ensure its safety. Last year at least two people died, and Amsterdam is serious.

    http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/82520/uitslaande-brand-nieuwezijds-voorburgwal

    Few were surprised to later learn that building was being used as an illegal, unregulated hotel.

    If anyone can rent their 'whatever' via airbnb, then such an unregulated and dangerous market would flourish.

  5. Don't rent vacation rentals in Amsterdam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Three years ago I set up a group trip to Amsterdam. Two weeks, 16 people, everything paid for up-front (food, transportation, accommodations). When I take groups on trips to large cities, I choose apartments because you get to live amongst the locals instead of being in a hotel where you get 'American-style service and amenities' (I can get that in America, thank you very much). I took a special trip ahead to set everything up and check everything out. Seven luxury apartments all in the historical center, all beautiful... everything checked out to my liking. I rented from three different agencies (web-based), all of which I visited in-person on my scouting trip and everything seemed legit.

    When we arrived four months later, I was warned by our drivers that he needed help to sneak the luggage into each apartment so nobody might see us. Turns out, it's illegal to rent apartments in the city of Amsterdam. Foreigners (and even locals) had been buying up properties at a rapid rate and then renting them out to tourists for huge profits. After signing away over US $70k for the accommodations, I found out we were all breaking the law, and worse, if we were found out we would all be kicked out immediately with no refunds. I have arranged many trips like this to different countries, and I was completely blind-sided.

    Thankfully nobody was vacated from their apartment, but I must say it added a great deal of stress to the trip!

    In a city where there isn't enough property to go around for the locals, having the city converted into makeshift hotels and apartment rentals creates a problem for the local population. Prices soar as the supply dries up and people are forced to move outside the city center and commute when (by design) they shouldn't have to.

    It also kills the flavor of the community. Anyone who has ever spent any time in Prague can attest to this. Almost no locals live in the heart of the city - everything has been converted to hotels and vacation rentals. I talked to dozens of Czechs in the two weeks I was there and only two of them lived in the city. To get a feel for the local people you have to leave the heart of the city (beautiful but total tourist trap).

    So I can see why Amsterdam has taken these measures, I just wish they were communicating it better to travelers.

    1. Re:Don't rent vacation rentals in Amsterdam! by acidfast7 · · Score: 2

      Also, you must not plan a lot of these trips. These laws are extremely common in many European cities. For example, take Stockholm, where the second-hand rental black market is huge. Thankfully, most websites work with SMS/cell numbers so you can't get the property address without communicating with directly the "owner." One can sort by area of the city, but one can't get the address from the webpage directly (pictures are available but no identifying marks.) Why can't the Dutch figure this small detail out?

    2. Re:Don't rent vacation rentals in Amsterdam! by acidfast7 · · Score: 2

      most places will negotiate a longer rate at a hotel. Booking/paying for 2 weeks for 16 people, would usually facilitate a 25-40% discount. You do understand that €50k for two weeks of stay is pretty ridiculous. In Germany, you could rent a castle for that much for two weeks for 16 people. Or a monastery that still brews beer.

    3. Re:Don't rent vacation rentals in Amsterdam! by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if it's so good business renting them, you'd think they'd accommodate for it and just tax it accordingly.

      Normally I'd agree with the free market approach. But having visited Amsterdam, I can see why they wouldn't want to accommodate it. Pretty much the entire city can be traversed by walking/biking (there are a *lot* of bikes there). If they want to keep it that way and slow the growth of the city, then they want to maximize utilization of the buildings that are there.

      Tourists rental apartments which sit empty half the time waste space, and drive up prices for residents by adding tourists to the demand side of the equation. I can see the city's logic here. Divide the real estate economy into two separate groups - residents and tourists. Confine the tourists to hotels so the market prices for tourists' housing expenses are decoupled from the market prices for residents' housing expenses. That way as more or fewer tourists visit, the price for hotel rooms will rise or fall. But they won't affect the price of residential apartments in the city.

      The market approach solves the higher housing prices by sprawling the city outward, expanding its size. Real estate on the periphery has (initially) lower prices, thus encouraging people to move outwards rather than stay in the center. But much of the charm of Amsterdam is in how accessible the entire city is by foot or bike, and the lack of skyscrapers. If the city wants to preserve that, then segregating tourist housing from residential housing makes sense.

    4. Re:Don't rent vacation rentals in Amsterdam! by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So let me understand. Your argument is that rents go up in a desirable location and that is some how a problem? I just don't see it. The property owners many of whom probably worked very hard to get where they are certainly gain from the appreciation and deserve to do so. The argument about the locals not being able to live in their own city is just silly.

      If they have to commute wages will go up because employers will have to cover the cost of commuting or they won't be able to hire qualified, let alone quality workers. The place will either become a less desirable tourist destination as a result and property will depreciate until locals can afford to move back in; or wages will continue to rise and people will move back to the city. Either way a new equilibrium will be reached.

      The entire thing just smacks of an entitlement problem. "Sob sob, I can't afford to live in the neighborhood I want to with my part time job serving coffee." So what..

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    5. Re:Don't rent vacation rentals in Amsterdam! by OverlordQ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      After signing away over US $70k for the accommodations, I found out we were all breaking the law, and worse, if we were found out we would all be kicked out immediately with no refunds.

      If you're going to play travel agent, knowing the local laws is usually a first step.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  6. Your Mileage May Vary by andersh · · Score: 2

    Extremely common? It's really different from country to country; the Swedish market is strictly controlled, while just next door in Norway the market is free and open.

  7. Possible $30,000 Fine For $300 Rental by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 2

    It's not just in Amsterdam but also in New Amsterdam - this is playing now on New York Public Radio's morning news program:

    http://www.wnyc.org/shows/newtechcity/blogs/new-tech-city-blog/2013/feb/05/nyc-tells-airbnb-hosts-dont-get-too-cosy/

  8. Re:The Horror! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The majority of Dutch people live in government regulated housing"?! This is yet another sweeping statement devoid of factual information. Is there a lot of government regulated housing? Yes. Is it abused by subletting for WAY over the rent being paid? Yes. But the majority of people are living in government regulated housing? Wake up, man.

    There is a general feeling that the government "owes" you something, but that appears to be with the "have-nots". Housing, holiday allowances, etc. The sense of entitlement here is amazing. It is time for a change - work for it or don't get it. This goes for housing, etc.

    I bought my house in the centre (of Amsterdam). I chose the neighborhood for lots of reasons, and I pay for it, sometimes at the detriment of lots of other things I want (NOTE: not things I am "entitled too"). People the world over live where they can afford. That is how it works.