Slashdot Mirror
Games Workshop Bullies Author Over Use of the Words 'Space Marine'
New submitter jzoetewey writes "An author I know (MCA Hogarth) recently had her book Spots the Space Marine taken off Amazon because Games Workshop claimed it violated their trademark. The interesting thing? Their trademark doesn't include ebooks or novels. Unfortunately, she doesn't have the money to fight them. Plus, the idea of a space marine was around long before they were: 'In their last email to me, Games Workshop stated that they believe that their recent entrée into the e-book market gives them the common law trademark for the term “space marine” in all formats. If they choose to proceed on that belief, science fiction will lose a term that’s been a part of its canon since its inception.' Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing also made this important point: 'Amazon didn't have to honor the takedown notice. Takedown notices are a copyright thing, a creature of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. They don't apply to trademark claims. This is Amazon taking voluntary steps that are in no way required in law.'"
We must stop them from going back in time to the 1930's to sue E. E. Smith and Robert Heinlein!
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Done. Also got.
Portal, Hyperspace, Warp, Starship, space dock, lander, blaster, fusion torpedo, and bent time.
Now all your belong to us.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Boy are they gonna be mad when they find out about Starcraft!
Spots the Space Marine: Defense of the Fiddler is still listed on Amazon. What was the point of this, a free advertisement?
Also relevant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine#History
Read it quick before Games Workshop defaces the page!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Warhammer 40K, Starship Troopers, Aliens/Weyland, Starcraft, and lots of other science-fiction universes have used space marines in their stories. They've all borrowed from each other. I don't think there are huge outcries from the Event Horizon people when the video game Dead Space is essentially Event Horizon the game. Or when 2001: Space Odyssey had its cold interiors and robotic enemies copied over and over. The writer of Alien said that he was enormously influenced by 2001.
Half of the Starcraft units would quote Aliens characters' dialog. And Starcraft's entire Terran campaign was themed and artistically patterned after the propaganda style filming of the movie Starship Troopers. "Would you like to know more"? No one cared. It was cool actually. "In the pipe...five by five".
It would be one thing if this novelist was putting in Xenomorphs or Tyranids in her story. But she's just using the old trope of a modern military man projected into the future. With advanced technology and advanced enemies, even alien enemies. No big deal. I doubt she's even aware of Warhammer 40K.
I read a synopsis of the book....uh....it's not exactly hard science fiction nor is it adult science fiction either. They bleep out the curse words in the novel. So "fuck you" becomes "**** you". Doubt that many Warhammer 40K fans...the kind that can afford to drop hundreds or thousands of dollars on models and game are reading this book.
The earliest known use of the term "space marine" was by Bob Olsen in his short story "Captain Brink of the Space Marines" (Amazing Stories, Volume 7, Number 8, November 1932).
Even companies are now acting out of fear of an overreaching ill-defined law. If companies with legal departments staffed to the gills are incapable of interpreting the law then what chance does the common-or-garden person have?
"Ignorance is no excuse" is bullshit. I can produce any number of laws you can't physically process within the confines of reality, be it sheer information volume or time required to read and process. I can literally throw more shit at you than you could ever hope to digest as a human being. Does this make you "ignorant"? No...it makes you "I have more important shit to deal with than your stupid crap".
Fucking idiots. Total fucking idiots.
Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing also made this important point: 'Amazon didn't have to honor the takedown notice. Takedown notices are a copyright thing, a creature of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. They don't apply to trademark claims. This is Amazon taking voluntary steps that are in no way required in law.'"
Yet, either way Amazon will be the one getting sued by one or both of these people.
While called Mobile Infantry, weren't they effectively 'space marines'?
Well lets check wikipedia:
Ah yea, GW can go fuck themselves.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
some Space Marines visit Amazon...
disclaimer :: I have not nor do I intend to ever buy anything from Amazon.
The "False Scarcity" patent was the ticket.
John Scalzi (president of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America and author of Old Man's War) did a blog post on this also.
http://whatever.scalzi.com/
This is what happens when you let a bunch of lawyers take over the country's judicial system. Every business is scared shitless of lawsuits. Every little complaint results in a massive overreaction.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Trademark or not, the term "Space Marine" predates Games Workshop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine
To call this term a trademark is tenuous
Change the title.
Not that big a deal.
Steve.
Agreed. Heinlein beat them by 16 years at least with Starship Troopers (its publication versus when Games Workshop was founded).
Also relevant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine#History
Read it quick before Games Workshop defaces the page!
I was going to say exactly the same thing, so rather than being completely redundant, here's the first two paragraphs:
1932, really... so 80 years later someone claims copyright on a science fiction concept almost as old as the phrase science fiction? Someone has balls.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Once we colonize the moon or mars and have marines stationed there, will the U.S Government NOT be able to call them Space Marines? You know Marines that reside in SPACE?
I was playing as the Space Marine in Doom before games-workshop.com was even registered as a domain! These scum-sucking pieces of lying shit can go fuck themselves!
Looks like this is little more than the latest expansion pack release for their flagship product, "Bully Everyone With Legal Threats And Be Giant Douchebags".
God I hate that company. The only thing worse than them and their SCO-style tactics are their rabid fanbois.
GW has always been extremely protective of their IP, to the point of this insanity. There are people who write programs to help them play GW games, they get C+D letters (a couple army builder programs, because they included numbers from GW copyrighted books, which you still need to know the rules to play).
It sucks because GW does make good games. They just want absolute control over how you're able to play them. I wonder what would happen if TSR had exercised the same control...
Series 2, with the Comet Empire, had Space Marines.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
What's the motivation behind games workshop doing this? I'm guessing they're not trying to get money here. So which is more likely, that their legal department simply sends out takedown requests and threats to any hits on google that aren't theirs, their legal department is intentionally wasting billable hours, or they're actually trying to assert control over any e-books with space marines?
If you say the words different... what then?
SPESS MEHRENS WE HAVE FEHLED THE EMPRA
As evidenced by its popular use dating back for nearly a century as seen in this 1936 comic book, by itself, the term "space marine" is a descriptive and generic term that is ineligible for trademark protection, in much the same way that you cannot trademark the term "laptop computer" or "space ship". Whereas this trademark should never have been granted in the first place, the petitioner requests summary judgment in invalidating the errantly issued trademark.
See the USPTO's appeals process page for information about how you can proceed with or without an attorney.
Once the trademark has been invalidated, inform Amazon. They will restore your book, and the entire publishing and software world will rejoice in your space marines' victory over the egregiously evil trademark abuser.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Read it quick before Games Workshop assumes ownership of the page!
FTFY
Noone is claiming copyright. Games Workshop are misusing their trademark and Amazon is complicit.
Does anyone know what happened to Captain Boreal...
spess mehreens...
Shouldn't it read: "Games Workshop commits perjury filing false DMCA take down request."?
I have a weird feeling this is going to lead to an invalidation of GW's trademark on the phrase Space Marine in the first place. There are so many examples of prior art it's not even funny, not to mention the fact there are actually real-life space marines these days. I don't think you can trademark a class of things.
Their trademark is limited to protection for tabletop games, it does not enjoy a universal application. For them to assert they own trademark rights outside of that context is not actually valid. I mean, if someone else was making tabletop miniatures and calling them Space Marines, I could see that as something they would want to take action against.
But an ebook? This will have the Internet up in arms!
No, its a trademark. While it is intellectual property, it is an entirely different beast. Basically, you can have a trademark on common phrases as long as the use of the term would create confusion and it isn't so generic as to refer to an entire class of things. I totally think they should have it in the area of hobbies and games (the sentence "I went to the hobby store and bought some Space Marines" obviously refers to GW's product). However, it is too far to refer to general toys and books because you could refer to something else, such as space marine dolls from Aliens or StarCraft or a ton of other sources.
While Games Workshop are the main villains here, this does highlight the problem with buying DRM encrusted books from an entity with unaccountable censorship powers. I note that this ebook is available from Smashwords in open, unencumbered formats: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/26359 - as is usual in situations like this, I immediately purchased a copy to give the finger to bullies, and support an author.
Nah, they'll make a blog with those same things, and send a DMCA notice to Wikipedia to take it down themselves.
Someone needs to update the Wikipedia page with this most current bit of history relating to the firm "Space Marine".
(In other words make Games Workshop have to live with the stupidity of their mistake.)
1932, really... so 80 years later someone claims copyright on a science fiction concept almost as old as the phrase science fiction? Someone has balls.
They're claiming trademark, not copyright, which is why it's so odd that they used the DMCA for this. It's also strange that they would assert it against an author.
Hopefully these links work, I'll provide the serial numbers in case.
The trademark for "SPACE MARINE", serial number 74186534, issued in 1993, covers: board games, parlor games, war games, hobby games, toy models and miniatures of buildings, scenery, figures, automobiles, vehicles, planes, trains and card games and paint, sold therewith. Another trademark for "SPACE MARINES", SN 75014487, filed in 1995 by someone else, but abandoned in 1997, did cover "series of science fiction books". It was abandoned in July 1997, then in Sept 1997 Games Workshop filed for "SPACE MARINE" again (SN 75010236), which covered video computer games; computer software for playing games.
So, they don't even own a trademark on the term for any books at all.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
In the time it took you to make this post, you could have just done it yourself. :)
The issue of the dumbness of these two words put together has worried me for some time now. Perhaps the lady should go for "naval spaceman". Makes as little sense, but will save her some aggro.
It looks like you dropped the base.
Amazon would be liable if they didn't take it down. It's called "contributory trademark infringement," and to avoid it, you can't knowingly allow infringing goods to be sold in your store. There's a case pretty squarely on point, Tiffany v. eBay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiffany_Inc._v._eBay,_Inc.
Which isn't to say this is legit, just that Amazon is probably right to cover its ass in a system that is very friendly to trademark owners.
I would be shocked if Amazon didn't have a little form or something that you couldn't fill out to appeal a copyright or trademark infringement. I had Copyright notices on YouTube, and I appealed a couple because they were music that was in the public domain, and the company in question didn't even own the copyright on the arrangement I used. It would shock me that Amazon wouldn't have something similar.
In the event of a DMCA takedown notice, the person accused normally just has to say that there is no copyright infringement, then the company claiming it has to offer proof that infringement happened. Or at least, that is my understanding (I could be wrong - while I have had companies claim copyright on stuff on Youtube, no one has actually requested a takedown).
The whole point - your friend doesn't have to pay to fight. Notify Amazon that the claim was in error, have them restore the material, and then force Games Workshop to prove their claim.
... cause I got the copyright for base.
at the offending company.
A trademark serves to identify the source of a good or service.
I don't believe the title of a book (e.g., "Spots the Space Marine") identifies the source of a good or service. Also, there is no problem using a trademarked name in a book (e.g., "the hero drank a Coca Cola before battling the evil aliens").
What you have is an over-zealous attorney (representing Games Workshop) and some peon at Amazon that isn't sophisticated to understand the issue.
Of course, the easy solution is to simply change the name of the book.
It looks like you dropped the base.
And rightly so. I've trademarked base, and I don't remember licensing it to you. See you in court, sucker!
I just checked and the book is listed on Amazon...
you can have a trademark on common phrases as long as the use of the term would create confusion and it isn't so generic as to refer to an entire class of things.
Oh, like Androids and Robots, to use George Lucas and "Droid" as an example? Sorry, that's not really how it works. How it works, is that if you spend enough money on marketing so that a word becomes commonly associated with your product, you can then trademark it, regardless of how broad or narrow it is.
The problem in this article is that Amazon should NOT be taking down content based on a complaint of TM violation- it's up to GW to take the person to court and THEN present Amazon with proof of the violation. TM is not covered under DMCA processes, but Amazon appears to not understand this and is treating it like a copyright issue. They don't have any duty or liability to stop selling the product until there's a judgement against the author.... unless this person is using Amazon to publish their works. In which case too bad, that's what you get for using a cheapskate publishing service which lacks any kind of "Testicular Fortitude".
This is ridiculous. If I were her, I'd call up the company and ask them if I could license their trademark for my existing book for $1 in perpetuity. This would resolve the issue of them being forced to defend their trademark.
If that didn't work, I'd remove the book from Amazon UK, because I wouldn't want to be sued in the UK by this UK-based company, but then I'd file a counter-DMCA takedown on Amazon - US?
I don't know if this is good legal advice. I'm not a lawyer. But this is what I would do if I had a ebook under my name. Either that, or since it's a ebook, I would just rename the book and just do like Prince did and append at the end of its name (formerly known as "Spots the Space Marines")
Goes back 20 years before that with Misfit and The Long Watch.
Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
Yes I am grumpy and pedantic today, but this whole storm in a teacup is the result of lazy thinking by a number of authors.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
So Amazon will take down a book for an alleged copyright infringement, which this situation is not, but they won't stop all the resellers on Amazon that sell counterfeit chinese products as the real deal.
Nastygram sent to custserv@games-workshop.com telling them what I think of their parsimonious self-aggrandizement.
It's one thing to know you're annoying, it's another thing when the people you count on to buy your products start flooding your inbox TELLING you you're being obnoxious.
After all, the FCC says that a complaint from one person is the equivalent of 50,000 people (or somesuch ridiculous figure) who are just as upset but didn't or couldn't send a complaint, right? In any event, I'll not be buying their products until they can stop acting like greedy little children who think they own everything they can lay hands on or claim to, and I'll be encouraging others to do the same.
"Inveniemus Viam Aut Faciemus" 'We will find a way... Or we will make one!' --Hannibal of Carthage
What the hell is this world coming to?
I should trademark What the hell and sue the entire damn internet. I'll become so rich I could single-handedly fund that Deathstar Kickstarter.
Screw the IP system, it needs to be ripped apart and rewritten from scratch. Trying to patent, trademark and whatever else basic sentences, basic descriptions and so on should be punished on the spot by a punch in the throat and thrown out of a moving vehicle.
Counter claim and get GW punished. They cannot win any court case even if they tried and had the richest damn lawyers from Hell. There is prior art older than their damn company and their own employees most likely. Not to mention it is a damn description of a role.
Nothing worse than people trademarking common words, single actual words and using them for content. (See Moon, Scrolls. They might be good, but damn it, fuck off with that abuse, come up with better damn names and stop being lazy)
Also, fuck you Games Workshop, you are on my shitlist. I'm never getting any of your stuff, and I will make sure to tell everyone else to stay away from your stuff now.
You just lost a good 70-100~ customers even from 3 layers of Word of Mouth. Suck it.
And in the time you replied, it would have been reverted by whoever considers himself the owner of that section of Wikipedia.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Unfortunately, she doesn't have the money to fight them.
And here lies the the problem with our so called "justice" system: it's cost.
Even when you are 100% in the right, you still need to spend (a lot of) money to get justice, money you will never get back and sometimes, when the other side can throw vastly larger amount of money at the problem, you will still lose.
There is no justice, only institutionalized extortion.
The book is still on Barnes & Noble, who also uses standard epub format instead of a proprietary format, and a lot of their books don't use DRM...
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/spots-the-space-marine-mca-hogarth/1112308671?ean=9781470131050
The point being: support businesses doing it right...
The Protoss are derived from the Eldar. Look at some of the original artwork and then the Eldar designs at the time. The similarity is unmistakable....just as the Zerg are reimagined Tyranids.
But it all started with Warcraft being pulled from Warhammer Fantasy Battles...and when it made a strong presence in the gaming world, Starcraft began development. Heck, if a formula of copying another company's lore with only a degree of different results in profit...why not do it again.
There's a case pretty squarely on point, Tiffany v. eBay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiffany_Inc._v._eBay,_Inc.
Your link says this: Tiffany sued eBay for trademark infringement, trademark dilution, and false advertising but eventually lost against eBay on all claims. This seems to be the opposite of what you imply it says.
Common law trademarks carry very little legal weight, and there is no penalty for violating them. If GW wants to make a claim of infringement, Amazon should go tell them to go register with the USPTO first.
Btw, you need to stop posting as "Anonymous Coward" because I have a common law trademark on that term.
Someone beat you by several years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Space_marine#Trademark_issues
No, because quite frankly I don't want to give Games Workslop the free publicity.
Warhammer came first, and Blizzard blatantly ripped off Games Workshop Warhammer when the Blizzard released Warcraft.
I realize you were probably just going for comic effect, but FYI for anyone who cares: you can link to a specific version of a page so that you don't have to worry about how it might change later.
"You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
So, why even bother suggesting it if you feel it's a waste of time?
[...]then in Sept 1997 Games Workshop filed for "SPACE MARINE" again (SN 75010236), which covered video computer games; computer software for playing games.
So, they don't even own a trademark on the term for any books at all.
The problem here being that what was taken down was an eBook, which is considered to be software, which is why they are permitted to licene the things, rather than you being able to own them outright, since you have purchased a physical artifact. For the same reasons, first use law doesn't apply, and therefore you can be prohibited from resale of eBooks.
This crap is out of hand, and in sore need of some reform; After 400 years, we are back to book licenses; we came up with copyright in the first place to stop this crap.
Gamesworkshop also used the claim of "trademark infringement" to go after online retailers of their product. Making them the only online retailer allowed to have a shopping cart system with their product. All other venders require customers to fill out a form to order product.
Gamesworkshop needs to have the shit sued out of them for their abuse of their claim to "trademark" to include everything under the sun.
When is this whole copyright thing going to go out of hand? Oh, it has aldready? Yeah.
So, when is this whole copyright thing going to be discontinued? I am very anxious to see it happen.
People are making money out of thin air, and the economy suffers.
I didn't. The first person you replied to was Gription, not me.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Sorry, my mistake. :)
Didn't they use "Space Marine" in the DOOM game series??
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
p.s. your Warhammer RPG sucks!
This is ridiculous. If I were her, I'd call up the company and ask them if I could license their trademark for my existing book for $1 in perpetuity. This would resolve the issue of them being forced to defend their trademark.
If that didn't work, I'd remove the book from Amazon UK, because I wouldn't want to be sued in the UK by this UK-based company, but then I'd file a counter-DMCA takedown on Amazon - US?
I don't know if this is good legal advice. I'm not a lawyer. But this is what I would do if I had a ebook under my name. Either that, or since it's a ebook, I would just rename the book and just do like Prince did and append at the end of its name (formerly known as "Spots the Space Marines")
$1 in perpetuity? That sounds reasonable, which suggests to me you've never heard of Games Workshop before.
This is the company that sues people who try to sell their products online, because they feel that they're the only ones with the right to use a shopping cart (You can check out The War Store for a brief explanation of this)
... that requires gaming stores that want to stock them give them a percentage of their store in free shelf space and make huge orders just to order anything at all...
...that banned exports to Australia because due to exchange rate shenanigans, it is literally cheaper to buy their product in the UK and pay shipping to Aus/NZ than to buy it from Games Workshop.
Games Workshop is not a company that is in any way reasonable. The only reason they're even still around is they have a very large amount of inertia and have some rather delightfully interesting storylines -- interesting enough that Blizzard ripped them off wholesale to make Warcraft (Warhammer Fantasy) and Starcraft (Warhammer 40k).
... Having said that, and descending completely into the frothy rant stage of the evening, the game itself is disgustingly overpriced, sub-par from a rule and balance standpoint, perpetually and intentionally traps their customers in a forced upgrade cycle... It's literally only a matter of time before Privateer Press or Wizards of the Coast buy them out.
But yeah. GW is a bit butthurt because of Blizzard wholesale stealing, well, everything that Blizzard has been successful with in the past 20 years from Games Workshop. I'm not terribly surprised they're more vigilant nowadays.
Doesn't matter what the truth is or not, or whether a trademark is valid or not, or even what the law says. What matters is who has the lawyers and who doesn't. If you can't afford to fight a bully then the bully wins no matter what the law says.
There is no trademark or copyright for book titles. Period. Ever. In the US. You'll find multiple books of the same title, often, sometimes published within a year or two of each other. If there were a way to use trademark or copyright to prevent that, you can be sure we wouldn't see this.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Doesn't Apple have this name for its backup software? :P
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
no he didn't. slashdot received a takedown notice. someone has trademarked the full phrase.
So if I create a game based on Jules Verne's Captain Nemo and get a trademark for it I can go after all the free eBooks?
Profit!!
I wonder if captainnemo.com is available?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
and there is no penalty for violating them.
This is dangerously false, at least in the United States (where Amazon lives). Google the Lanham Act.
CustServ@gwplc.com
Send them a message. I know I did.
Trademarks don't have to be registered to be enforceable. They just need to be commonly associated with a particular brand, such that use by another in that same field is likely to cause confusion in the marketplace as to the origin of that product or service.
Yes. They make you do the dishes and ... clean the cat box. Grody!
You never heard of base dumping?
The problem here being that what was taken down was an eBook, which is considered to be software
I don't see how that's relevant for a trademark that covers software for playing games.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
GW's ripped off Elisabeth Beresford's design.
Refer them to Arkell v Pressdram.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
GW also acquired Talisman, removed all female characters, substituted minotaurs and other stupid relics from other games, and released "Talisman third edition". Should've been called "Turd Edition". I was mighty pleased when the fourth edition came out looking much better. My nephew borrowed my second edition and promptly lent it to someone else, and it never came back.
Yeah, the best thing you can say about GW is that they have a flawed outlook on the world of tabletop gaming.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
A "Space Marine" term is self descriptive and generic. It's so generic that I believe that if it was challenged, they'd lose the trademark "Space Marine" to "space marine" type games. Now if there was "Space Marine" facial tissue (if it was registered that way), then there might be a defense of the trademark, because it would be unique in relation to facial tissue. But not to video games with space marine characters and themes?. Nope. Public Domain.
Microsoft almost lost their trademark to Windows because it was challenged as too generic. Before a decision was given, Microsoft handed over a pile of money to get Linspire to shut up about it.
--
BMO
no, that would be the i Space Marine :p
I think she should register the trademark in another jurisdiction, and then sue the back. Mutually assured destruction then.
You can't if that phrase is merely a description of the product. "Garage Doors" would not be a valid trademark in relation to closures for car houses, but it would for cakes or hats.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
My solution to the "intentionally traps their customers in a forced upgrade cycle" was to switch to WarMachine. Haven't looked back. I refuse to give my money to a company that sues fans for making fansites, etc. This case is just one of many many examples. Here's more examples: 4th ed to 5th ed: Lets jack up the prices on vehicles, then make them overpowered so people have to buy them. 5th ed to 6th ed: Lets create expensive flyers, then make them overpowered so people have to buy them. ANY EDITION: someone figured out how powerful this unit is, so people want to play it, lets jack up the prices on it. And lets not start on their "finecast" that breaks at the slightest handling or exposure to sun/heat. I think thats enough of a rant. So basically I'm trying to say that this is business as usual for GW.
1932, really... so 80 years later someone claims copyright on a science fiction concept almost as old as the phrase science fiction? Someone has balls.
They're claiming trademark, not copyright, which is why it's so odd that they used the DMCA for this. It's also strange that they would assert it against an author.
Thanks for the clarification and the extra info. ( I do know the difference between trademark and copyright, I just misread.)
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
and there is no penalty for violating them.
This is dangerously false, at least in the United States (where Amazon lives). Google the Lanham Act.
Okay, I just googled it, and I don't see anything false about my statement. From the wiki: These provisions can be used to restrict, through the use of injunctions and damages, the importation of goods that infringe or counterfeit registered trademarks.
Since "common law" == "not registered", I stand by original my statement.
There is no trademark or copyright for book titles. Period. Ever. In the US.
Then explain Wiley's FOR DUMMIES mark and what its owners have done.
I thought linking to a specific version worked only while a page hasn't been moved.
The first mention of a "space marine" that I remember was in the first Doom game, for PC.
No trademarks for software. The trademarks are "a recognizable sign, design or expression which identifies products or services". The phrase used in an ad, as part of the packaging, or a logo would be the limit of the use of a trademark.
Okay, I just googled it, ....
FTFY.
More precisely, if you cannot afford to fight the bully, you always lose. You can choose to lose now or lose big in lawyer fees -- because even if you win in court and the bully loses, you can be 100% sure you shot yourself in your own bank account.
You left out force field and warp drive.
It sounds like they registered it as a trademark for use in video games or other game-related software, not a feature in the software.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Assuming you mean the pointy nosed space marine helmets?
Yay me!
Maybe this will finally cause the term space marine to fall out of common use, and end the "space is an ocean" sci-fi trope for good. Good riddance, and thanks for taking care of this nuisance, trademark trolls!
...there is only trademark infringement.
"I know you are out there, gamers and science fiction readers. Even if you're not an attorney, you can help. You can help by sending an email (edit: in the comments, Patrick offers the email to use) to Games Workshop telling them you won't buy their products while they engage in meritless trademark bullying. (Edit: or communicate with them by their Twitter account, https://twitter.com/VoxCaster.) You can help by spreading this story — and getting others involved — on every gaming and science fiction blog and board and forum out there. Inflict upon Games Workshop the consequences of their actions."
and there is no penalty for violating them.
This is dangerously false, at least in the United States (where Amazon lives). Google the Lanham Act.
Okay, I just googled it, and I don't see anything false about my statement. From the wiki: These provisions can be used to restrict, through the use of injunctions and damages, the importation of goods that infringe or counterfeit registered trademarks.
Since "common law" == "not registered", I stand by original my statement.
GP is right. Actions for infringement of a registered mark are unde sec. 32 of the Lanham Act. Actions for infringement of an *un*registered mark - I,e., a "common law" mark - are under sec. 43(a) of the Lanham Act. There's a reason why wiki is useful as a guide to find primary sources, like the statute, but is not a replacement for those sources,
And yes, I am an IP lawyer.
"Time Machine" for backup software is a "suggestive" mark (no, that has nothing to do with porn). However, "Time Machine" for a machine which travels in time or allows users to travel in time, would be generic, and not eligible for trademarking.
I was curious about this "Games Workshop" so I performed a Google search on the term. There was an advertising link for the company so I clicked it and found their site. If you want to learn more about Games Workshop, you can also search for the name and click on the ad. I think that advertisers like it when people click on their ads because it makes them feel like they're reaching an audience. Maybe lots of people will want to read about Games Workshop and click the advertising links to find the site, and everyone will be happy!!
The ironic thing is that (at least according to rumor) Blizzard actually wanted Warcraft to be a Warhammer game, but GW was so anal about protecting their IP that they refused to license it. So they missed out out on roughly a kajillion dollars of profit and brand exposure and the video games they came out with in the 90s were pretty mediocre.
He couldn't use the full phrase. It was trademarked.
Isn't Games Workshop the owner of that section of Wikipedia?
America is a place full of batshit crazy person, it seems. You'll need a lawyer just to breath some air in the near future, I'm afraid...
Being serious: it's the apotheosis of the liberalism, a jungle where only the strongest (i.e. the one with more money) can survive killing all the other.
There is no trademark or copyright for book titles. Period. Ever. In the US.
Depends on the title. If it consists of terms that are considered generic, or are descriptive of the content, then you're right. However, try releasing a book called "Lord of the Rings 2" or "Star Wars: Jedis vs Ninjas" and see if you successfully defend against the inevitable trademark violation suits, even if your books otherwise have nothing in common with the original works whose names you have reused.
Further to my above comment -- see: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9907256353585916992&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr in which a US court held that the title "The Book of Virtues" was eligible for trademark protection, because it had acquired "secondary meaning", i.e. it was associated by consumers with a particular source. Now, I make no argument that this is true for "space marines" -- it blatantly isn't -- but it does mean that your suggestion that book titles in the US cannot be trademarks is clearly wrong.
Lego were hit recently too.
The Lego Cuusoo site that lets fan submit ideas for new sets had a Space Marine one up, and it's now been forced to drop the Space Marine name.
Which is stupid.
Nemo, is that not a trademark of Pixar? ^_^
It's even more ironic since GW ripped almost all of their material off from Aliens, D&D, Michael Moorcock, and of course daddy Tolkien. The only thing that makes them different from other clone stamps is the quality of their art, which is great stuff
The ironic thing is that (at least according to rumor) Blizzard actually wanted Warcraft to be a Warhammer game, but GW was so anal about protecting their IP that they refused to license it. So they missed out out on roughly a kajillion dollars of profit and brand exposure and the video games they came out with in the 90s were pretty mediocre.
Not just a rumor: http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcraft-was-almost-a-warhammer-game-and-how-that-saved-wow If Games Workshop had eased up on the stubbornness and need to control everything, millions of people would be playing (and paying for) "World of Warhammer" instead of "World of Warcraft".
It's even more ironic since GW ripped almost all of their material off from Aliens, D&D, Michael Moorcock, and of course daddy Tolkien. The only thing that makes them different from other clone stamps is the quality of their art, which is great stuff
The novels are pretty good too.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
It's called the Skillex method.
Making a giant bass drop.
Also reference http://what-if.xkcd.com/12/ :)
Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1470131056/
Maybe someone at Amazon realized their error.
This story reminded about a couple of painted AD&D figures I pinched from their shop in hammersmith many years back. The best of them, was a thief/assassin that I still have somewhere.
Now the slight sense of guilt over how he came to join my little crew of dungeon explorers has been allayed by the workshops dastardly behavior, I shall find him and he'll have a proud spot on my mantelpiece. His backstabbing days can be relived, free of shame. Thanks slashdot!!!
And yet you still don't see anything wrong with your legal system? All civillized countries make the loser pay, especially in case of riduculous litigation. Kinda makes you think real hard if it's worth the trouble to sue. Also pretty much kills the "sue them, they are poor and have to settle" attack.
Oh yeah the Black Library, good fun indeed if you got the right novellist. Some of them didn't work at all but some of the stuff by Gordon Rennie and Anthony Reynolds was amazing.
What I find most interesting is that the whole space marine thing was ripped off from SF authors.
Or at least that's how I remember it back when I was writing in SF and gaming magazines in the 1980s.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I seem to recall that the Tyranids originally looked too much like Aliens and got changed a bit. Overall though yeah they seem to think they can claim IP protection on stuff they've copied themselves. I have no love for them and, to be brutally honest, consider their art quality as "good" and not "great" ..........
Hi,
My name is Dave "Knighthawk" Simpson. I host a Youtube channel called Gamers on Games. We just did an interview with Maggie Hogarth about her trademark dispute with Games Workshop. Please watch, subscribe, and share! We really want to help rally more support for her. Thanks!
http://youtu.be/JnSTuSW5w7E
http://www.youtube.com/gamersongames