Moving the Linux Kernel Console To User-Space

jones_supa sends this quote from Phoronix: "David Herrmann has provided an update on his ambitious initiative to kill off the Linux kernel console. Herrmann has long been working on making the Linux kernel CONFIG_VT option unnecessary for providing a Linux console by punting it off to user-space. The Linux kernel VT console hasn't been changed much in the past two decades and Herrmann is hoping to see it replaced with a user-space solution he's been developing that would allow for multi-seat support, a hardware-accelerated console, full internalization, and other features."

Comments

Unneeded

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets not mess with the TTY's they are STILL NEEDED for when things go wrong...

good thinking HA!

[rubycodez]

making console depend on layers of complexity in user space, yeah that'll all be there when things go south.... the console is there for emergencies, needs to depend on as little as possibile

But pleeeease keep the key-combo

[Anonymous Coward]

Being able to press ctrl-alt-f1 when anyting hangs the X server is why I feel more at home in linux than in windows or OSX.

Re:But pleeeease keep the key-combo

[poizan42]

That is why you have Ctrl+Alt+SysRq+R ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key )

Re:good thinking HA!

[Anonymous Coward]

This could be an essential part of GNOME 3!

Re:why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The idea is to replace a kernel functionality with few features and several crucial limitations with a user space solution that is fully-fledged. The fully-fledged solution is not what you want to have inside the kernel, therefore taking the console to user space.

The need for this arose primarily with the introduction of kernel mode setting etc. Before these advances, the console would somewhat be lame by definition. Now it is much more viable to have a nice console even without a windowing system and that opens new applications to a user-space console.

E.g. look at Terminology. It is a virtual terminal emulator from the Enlightenment guys, built on the EFL core libraries. It works with David Herrmanns patches, without X11 or any display server!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD-BJThtNnc (here run within X)

Compare this to the basic kernel console. It could replace it if David's work gets through.

What exact problem is this trying to solve?

[idontgno]

From TFA (to save your delicate eyes from the indignity of RTFA):

Among his principal complaints about the current terminal is that it's a user-interface in kernel-space, the code is poorly maintained, handles keyboards badly, produces bad font rendering, misses out on mode-setting and multi-head support, contains no multi-seat awareness, and only has limited hot-plugging handling, limited to VT102 compliance.

Let's look at this one item at a time.

1. "user-interface in kernel-space": Is this a philosophical objection? I'd argue that depending completely on userspace for system restoration is basically giving up on many classes of system problems. If you don't have user interaction at the kernel level, your only response to certain problems is reduced to "burn it down and rebuild it, lol". If you're all VM, sure, go nuts. But VM isn't universal, and restructuring Linux to only be usable in VM environments only is just foolish and shortsighted.
2. "code is poorly maintained": [Citation needed]. Is the complaint that it hasn't had commits in a while? Maybe because it's not broke? Simple capability with simple requirements probably attained stable maturity years ago. Maybe the committers should toss in a few random code restructures to make it look like someone cares.
3. "handles keyboards badly": Does it drop keystrokes? If it doesn't do that, there's absolutely no rational basis for this complaint. Maybe baby wants his arrow keys, or non-ASCII character set? Screw that. This is a console. Use vi commands like a grownup. And you don't need your umlauts and accents. The commands are all composed of ASCII characters. If you're reduced to using the console, internationalization is the least of your problems.
4. "produces bad font rendering": "bad font rendering?" "BAD FONT RENDERING?" Seriously? "It's not pretty enough?" I'm not even gonna address this drivel.
5. "misses out on mode-setting and multi-head support": Guess what. There is exactly ONE CONSOLE. It's for the use of ONE ADMINISTRATOR to restore function to a system which can't otherwise run in multi-head, multi-user modes. Not a problem.
6. "contains no multi-seat awareness": While you're at it, please complain that cars don't have multiple drivers' seats.
7. "limited hot-plugging handling": Interestingly, when system consoles were serial terminals like God intended, hot-plugging was a non-problem, since EIA RS-232 specifications meant that you could hot-plug serial cabling to your heart's content. Maybe thats' where the solution to this "problem" properly lies?
8. "limited to VT102 compliance": Oh, I'm so sorry it doesn't include your favorite terminal emulation. But it's good enough to run vi (properly statically linked, in /sbin), and that's as close to a GUI you'll ever get in system recovery operations. so, um, NO.

Re:why?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you two & everyone who's modded these up, thinks that 1) something being moved to a secondary option is the same as "being killed", and 2) that technology shouldn't be used to improve anything.

Please rethink.

Re:why?

[Spazmania]

But it's not fully fledged.... it doesn't provide two of the three features I need in a text console: kernel diagnostic messages prior to the start of user space and kernel diagnostic messages following a crash.