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Texas School Board Searching For Alternatives To Evolutionary Theory

An anonymous reader writes "[Ars Technica] recently reviewed the documentary The Revisionaries, which chronicles the actions of the Texas state school board as it attempted to rewrite the science and history standards that had been prepared by experts in education and the relevant subjects. For biology, the board's revisions meant that textbook publishers were instructed to help teachers and students 'analyze all sides of scientific information' about evolution. Given that ideas only reach the status of theory if they have overwhelming evidence supporting them, it isn't at all clear what 'all sides' would involve."

16 of 763 comments (clear)

  1. FSM by HybridST · · Score: 5, Insightful

    May we each be touched by his noodley appendage!

    --
    Ever notice that Cobra Commander sounds an awful lot like Star scream?
    1. Re:FSM by tippe · · Score: 5, Funny

      You got it backwards. With the Catholic church, they touch *your* noodley appendage!

    2. Re:FSM by Jawnn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the contrary, compared to the fundamentalist nut-jobs who've infiltrated the TX state school board, the RCC is positively enlightened and evolution-friendly. The RCC's doesn't include the requirement that believers take every word of scripture as "the one true and unerring word of god". Which is good, because that allows them to look like they didn't really mean to burn all those heretics who had the temerity to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the universe and other Satan-spawned deceptions. Aaaaanyway..., it's just as well. We like to keep our kids stoopid here in the grate state of Texas, so all them liberal elitists can go hang out with their Papist buddies and stop filling our kids minds with all that truth nonsense.

    3. Re:FSM by hairyfish · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh I see you haven't done any rigor either.. You would find some world history and literature classes beneficial.

      This is the problem with religious nut jobs. Because you have something missing in your life that your fairy tale resolves, you think everyone else is in the same boat too. I've got a fairly good grasp on history, and not just middle eastern history. And in the when you put all of human history over thousands of years into context, the bible is merely one text in thousands that all have the same old myths in them. Nothing special there, just a brief footnote that yet another primitive culture believed in magic invisible goblins at the bottom of the garden, just like all the rest of them.

    4. Re:FSM by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll drop sports and such under def.1 for fun.

      Saying someone's sport is their religion is an indicator of their devotion to it and/or a satire on religion (depending on your perspective). Sport isn't a religion.

      Atheism includes the belief that there is no creator

      No. Simply, no. Why the fuck do people keep getting this wrong?

      Atheism is the lack of belief that there is a creator.

      However, comically I just checked dictionary.reference.com and it actually agrees with you:
      1 .the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
      2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

      Clearly written by a religious nutjob :)

      Atheism (taken to its etymological roots) means 'no god'. That infers nothing about belief. I do not have to believe that there is no god, in the same way that I do not have to believe that there is no flying hippo, or that there are no ghosts.

      Note that although I also don't think there's any evidence of extra-terrestial life, I do accept its possibility and likelihood. I don't believe in it, but I wouldn't be surprised if we were able one day to provide evidence (at which point I still wouldn't believe in it, because I wouldn't have to).

      Such is the nature of belief, and the lack of belief. I do not believe in god. This makes me an atheist. It does not require me to believe in a negative.

  2. Theories of "gravity" and electricity under review by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sigh. There's just no cure for stupid. Full disclosure. I live in Texas and yes, this embarrasses me.

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  3. Texas would like to think of it as a hypothesis... by Picass0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...or maybe a theorem. Or a rumor.

    Maybe a wacky folk story.

    "Darwin's Wise Tale of Evolution"

  4. The theory of gravity is under review :) by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Gravity is a very active area of theoretical study. We don't understand what it is very well, and there are strong indications that General Relativity is not complete, that we need a better theory to fully explain interactions, particularly on the quantum level.

    You may be confusing the theory with the fact. The fact of gravity is that objects attract, or on a more human scale, that things fall down. That is something you can just observe, sometimes without meaning to. The theory of gravity is to explain how and why the interaction works. That one we don't have nailed.

    Not trying to support Texas here in their unscientific bullshit, but gravity is not an open and shut case. What its method of action is, how it works on very small and large levels, and how it unifies with the other forces are still not well understood.

    1. Re:The theory of gravity is under review :) by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well most of the god-tards have moved on from disputing that things evolve. Rather their new shit is intelligent design, which says that god works behind the scenes, controlling how things evolve and change. So they aren't disputing the fact that change happens, they are disputing the theory as to why.

      However their counter is not a theory, since there is no way to test it, and hence has no place in science class. Even if it is right, it is not science as it is not something one can test. Any time you mention god, by definition outside of the universe and untestable, you aren't talking science.

    2. Re:The theory of gravity is under review :) by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And atheists are different? Big bang was the atheist answer to God for nearly a century. Now it's the expanding vacuum. Those theories don't answer the question of "is there a creator?" any better than a theology.

      You're asking the wrong question. The correct question is not "is there a creator?" but, "where does the evidence lead?"

      So far, the evidence doesn't lead to a creator (i.e., a god).

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    3. Re:The theory of gravity is under review :) by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And atheists are different?

      Yes, they certainly are. Atheists don't have or hold a belief in a god or gods. That's all. From there, they vary enormously.

      Big bang was the atheist answer to God for nearly a century.

      No. Big bang is a scientific theory, currently the best performing one there is (that could change, and that's fine), that has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism or "God", any more than big bang would be offered, or taken, as "the answer" to Santa Claus or any other made-up story character.

      Those theories don't answer the question of "is there a creator?" any better than a theology.

      First of all, those theories are not attempting to find such an answer. They are attempting to describe how the reality around us, as is, developed as far back as we have evidence for, albeit extremely indirect, diffuse evidence. Nowhere in actual cosmology, which is what we're talking about here, does the issue of god or gods arise. It's a physics question, not a question of superstition.

      Secondly, it's a pointless, valueless question. It's on exactly the same level as "is there a Santa Claus?" There's zero evidence for such a thing, despite thousands of yeas of looking for same, so, other than writing fiction or cult-building, there's no reason to assume there is one, and therefore no reason to worry about whether there is one (or several.) When you concern yourself with it, you're simply self-identifying as a cultist or an intellectual lightweight.

      The day theists have evidence, they've changed the game, and everyone -- including atheists -- will be utterly fascinated to examine that evidence. Until then, theists are in a boat that isn't so much intellectually leaky, as sunken.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  5. Re:Texas would like to think of it as a hypothesis by Sir+or+Madman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lots of homosexuals procreate, lots of people who have abortions have kids. Abortion and infanticide may actually preserve a generational line in times scarcity, in that resources can be concentrated on existing children. Homosexual people procreate in heterosexual relationships all the time, and use IVF or surrogacy to procreate in homosexual relationships. The world is a little more complicated than you think.

  6. Re:While I'm not supporting Texas -at all- by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 5, Informative

    Bullshit. You're equivocating for the same nonsense of the creationists.

    A theory is a theory because it makes a testable, falsifiable, hypothesis.

    This isn't true at all. You're redefining theory as the sole progenitor of hypothesis. You've got it backwards, there, chief.

    The National Academy of Sciences lays it out for you:

    http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6024&page=2

  7. Re:While I'm not supporting Texas -at all- by paiute · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is incorrect that ideas only reach the status of "theory" when there's overwhelming evidence. A theory is a theory because it makes a testable, falsifiable, hypothesis. We have theories that aren't well tested. We don't go teaching them in science class, but that doesn't mean they aren't theories. This idea that "theory" means "proven beyond any reasonable doubt" is silly. It doesn't.

    A hypothesis is a testable, falsifiable conjecture. A theory is arrived at by testing one or more hypotheses in a model and finding them not to be untrue. You are correct that there are theories which have not been exhaustively tested. The TOE is not one of those. A shitload of observations in many fields support it - or rather, do not support an alternative to it.

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  8. Re:all sides by Dahamma · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Evolution can't tell me what conditions to subject rats to so that I end up with something that isn't a rat.

    Of course it can. You just have to understand that long term evolution is a macroscopic process resulting from changes in DNA. Increase the mutations, breed many generations, and expose those generations to selective pressure. It's really not that hard to understand. And "isn't a rat" is a fairly silly, non-scientific, though also easy to determine. The definition of a species is somewhat subjective, but generally is that members can interbreed and have fertile offspring. Change the rat's DNA so much that it can breed with other organisms with that change but not original rats and there you go.

    And it can't tell me how many generations it'll take

    That's an even sillier argument. Theories of statistics can't tell you how many tries it will take to get heads when flipping a quarter, but that doesn't mean statistics is not testable. If I told you I'd give you 1:10 odds (ie. you get $1 for a $10 bet) that the next coin flip is heads, would you take it? How about if I gave you those odds that over 1M coin clips the results are between 0.49 and 0.51? (Hint: you should take the bet. And that's a prediction).

    And anyway it basically can tell you how many generations it will take - it will take as many as necessary to cause exactly the mutations needed to achieve the change you are looking for. You might be able to speed that up via mutagens and increased selective pressure, or once (it's only a matter of time) humans can trivially map the entire gene sequence and function for an organism and have the technology to modify them, it could be one generation (as it is these thing are already being done, just not as efficiently as they could). But it's all the same to the DNA.

    Evolution can't tell me where to dig to find a creature whose bones are part way between a form believed to be a descendent of another.

    Yes, it can. That's how so many of the existing bones have been found in a relatively small region of the world. Archaeologists didn't just dig billions of random holes around the planet and cross their fingers.

    And it can't reliably tell me what those bones will look like when I do find them.

    Seriously, just give it up. You don't even need to be a biologist to prove this statement wrong, 5 minutes on Google would do it. Sigh. Will there be the occasional surprise? Absolutely, because due to its underlying mechanisms some aspects of evolution are RANDOM. But if you think that disproves anything or discredits the theory, back to that coin flipping experiment for you...

  9. honestly? by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    do something about it

    it's only like this because not enough texans like you are agitating about this

    i would bet a majority of texans agree with you. the problem is a highly motivated, highly vocal minorty highjack the process and the majority is quiet and complacent about the whole nightmare

    you need to get involved. you get the texas you deserve. so put some effort into it, kick these militantly ignorant morons off your school board, and restore texas to the modern world

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it