Slashdot Mirror


CNN Replicates John Broder's Drive In the Tesla Model S

karlnyberg writes "Adding a third voice to the conflict between Tesla's Elon Musk and New York Times Reporter John Broder, CNN/Money's Peter Valdes-Dapena drove from DC to Boston (primarily to test the SuperCharger network). As he says in the article: In the end, I made it — and it wasn't that hard. ... As for the Supercharger network? Turns out that works, too.' He expands on this a bit: 'Looking back on the trip, it would be even easier if Tesla would install one of their fast-charging Superchargers along the New Jersey Turnpike. (These charging stations can fill up a nearly dead battery in Tesla's longest-range cars in about an hour, which is enough time to stop for a meal.) Tesla's working on that, spokeswoman Shanna Hendricks said. But the first priority was to install enough to make this trip, even if you had to take it easy most of the way. But I didn't have to take it that easy, which is good because the Model S provides a pretty amazing mix of smooth and silent performance along with brain-squishing acceleration. So even if you're not driving from Washington to Boston, it's an impressive car, all on its own.'"

26 of 525 comments (clear)

  1. Problem with egos really by parallel_prankster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    On one side you have John Broder who it seems like wants to see this tech fail for some reason or the other (This is just my personal opinion from reading his prior articles). That is the kind of mindset he was in before he even started test driving this. On the other side you have Elon Musk who wants to sell people this new tech which will obviously have some issues in the beginning (which Musk would rather not talk about instead and blame everyone else for it.) . The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. However, Musk's blog post was so convincing I almost find myself not rooting for John Broder at all!

    1. Re:Problem with egos really by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just another journo that you can safely not read. I think Broder was caught in a near-total lie.

    2. Re:Problem with egos really by poetmatt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At what point do facts somehow become less convincing than John Broder's fabrication? Facts should be cut and dry, end of the day. If John is on one "side" and Musk is somehow on another, then you are simply misrepresenting "sides" to the story that don't exist. The opposite of facts is not another side to a story, it's called bullshit, and appropriately so. NYT doesn't get an all clear to do that any more than Faux news.

      Good thing we have penny arcade to sum up Broder:

      http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-5xVV2tB/0/950x10000/i-5xVV2tB-950x10000.jpg

    3. Re:Problem with egos really by Bogtha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's a fallacy. It's entirely possible that Broder or Musk are entirely full of shit.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    4. Re:Problem with egos really by SternisheFan · · Score: 5, Informative

      The CNN reporter duplicated the test, charging it properly, and had 96 miles to spare at the end.

    5. Re:Problem with egos really by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's only because he didn't circle around the parking lot until the battery was drained. That is the proper procedure as we all know...

    6. Re:Problem with egos really by Catbeller · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A "he-said-she-said pissing contest"? If he hadn't fought back, it would now be common understanding that the Tesla was a piece of shit that died on a NYT reporter. It's STILL common understanding that somehow a Tesla failed on Top Gear. Perception is absolutely reality. He had to hit back brutally and immediately, or Tesla would have been Apteraed.

    7. Re:Problem with egos really by Luckyo · · Score: 5, Informative

      You do realize that BBC won the court case because it argued that "top gear reviews are not actual reviews but scripted comedy skits" successfully?

    8. Re:Problem with egos really by trum4n · · Score: 5, Informative

      As an EV builder, i can assure you, the weather really doesn't effect it. In the brutal, -10F weather, i only see a 10% drop in range...with lead acid batteries. 3% with LiFePO4. The simple fact is that the first article was a complete fabrication designed to hurt the image of the electric car.

    9. Re:Problem with egos really by rcs1000 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have a Tesla Roadster. If you leave it out overnight, at -10c, you will not lose more than 5% or so of your battery.

      --
      --- My dad's political betting
    10. Re:Problem with egos really by makomk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's actually the weird thing; if you look at the graphs Tesla have released, it appears he did only lose about 5% of charge overnight, but for some reason this caused the available range - again from their graphs, not relying on anything Broder said - to plummet from a safe 90 miles to an oh-fuck-can't-reach-the-Supercharger 20 miles.

    11. Re:Problem with egos really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      This has been discussed ad nauseum but apparently you missed all of the memos.

      The battery READS differently when cold. But as it gets used, it returns to operating temperature (just like an internal combustion engine) and that charge - magically! (not really) - returns. It's a problem with how the current charge status is read by the electronics, NOT electrons bleeding away through the tires.

      So, no violation of conservation of energy. Turns out chemical reactions happen slower in the cold, and we've known this for hundreds of years. Warm 'em up, and you are back to where you were.

      Stop spreading the completely inaccurate FUD.

    12. Re:Problem with egos really by iamgnat · · Score: 5, Informative

      The speeds? Is that the "lie"? Teslas have 21" wheels normally. He was driving on 19" snow tires. If the system logging his speed wasn't calibrated for the wheel difference you'd see the logs indicate speeds about 10% higher than Broder was actually traveling. There's your discrepancy between the two.

      You are only partially correct here and not where it is important. It's not the size of the wheel itself that matters, it's the overall size of the tire. A 21" tire (on this type of car) is going to have a significantly shorter sidewall than a 19" snow tire will. As such the overall size won't have changed that significantly and you are looking at far less than a 10% difference.

      Additionally what they were reporting in those graphs was the information in the ECU which would be the same information given to the speedometer on the dash since that is where the dash gets it's information. So while the car may have said he was doing one speed and he was actually doing another based on tire size, what he thought he was doing was no different than what the ECU thought he was doing. The only way he could think he was doing a different speed than the car thought was if he was using another device (e.g. GPS) to track it and in that case most of any discrepancy is going to be due to the built-in overrating of the ECU/speedo (due to various laws and penalties around the world) which is typically in the 5-10% range.

    13. Re:Problem with egos really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It was colder on Broder's trip. The lowest being -1. The batteries are certified for -10. Meaning, down to -10, there will not be a significant difference. Broder was also told to plug the vehicle in at night during extremely cold weather which allows the battery packs to be heated. This in turn would have also provided additional charge. Broder elected not to. That's four charging opportunities he purposely avoided. Additionally, if you look at the data, you can see where Broder claims he was on cruise control at a slower speed yet the data clearly shows him constantly accelerating and decelerating at a much higher average speed, whereby at time's he hitting about 60% faster than he actually claims. In case its not clear, if you want to destroy fuel economy, constantly accelerate and decelerate.

      Basically if one had an objective to sabotage a product and then write about the failure specifically created by sabotage, you would do exactly as Broder did.

      I fully expect Broder is receiving big oil payola.

    14. Re:Problem with egos really by trum4n · · Score: 5, Informative

      Heating the cabin is a concern, but not as much as implied above. Once the cabin is warm, a mere 200 watts can keep it toasty.

    15. Re:Problem with egos really by iserlohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually Broder's problem was that he embarked on a 61 mile leg, with the computer showing a range of only 32 miles. This definitively proves that he had the intention to "fail" the Model S. It doesn't matter if it was the president telling me to set off, I would not drive a car 61 miles with the range indicator saying 32 miles unless I wanted a ride on a tow truck.

    16. Re:Problem with egos really by yurtinus · · Score: 5, Funny

      He's just saying the Model S is a failure as a car because it isn't a snowmobile.

      --
      +1 Disagree
  2. 270 mile range seems good by ranulf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To me, 270 mile range sounds fantastic (my car only gets 210 miles to a tank). I know charging points aren't yet as ubiquitous as fuel stations and that's the point of these tests, but seriously 270 mile range is more than enough for most people to do 95% of their regular driving without even considering range.

    1. Re:270 mile range seems good by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep, and if you can charge it at home then you actually eliminate all those trips to the gas station. How would anybody not want that?

      If roadside cafes and/or mall parking lots with chargers become common, the only remaining problem would be the price. We all know what happens to the price of high-tech stuff...

      --
      No sig today...
  3. Re:How do we generate the power? by dywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its been previously stated that powering the Tesla S to max range is equivalent to burning 3 gallons of gas.
    Compared to the usual 10-12 gallon gas tank of a car, that's pretty much a win no matter how you get the electricity (as long its not frm baby farts; while smelly, they arent very large or practical for a pwoerplant)

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  4. Re:For the life of me by Troll-in-Training · · Score: 5, Informative

    I don't understand why everyone is so gaga over these Tesla's. Is it a beautiful car? Yeah. Is it well made? Yeah. But, the base price remains at $57,400. This is not a car for the masses. It's like writing about an all-electric Mercedes. Who cares?

    As I understand it Tesla's buisness plan is to first make a high performance sports car (Roadster) to work out the bugs in the technology, then make a cheaper sedan to scale up production of components as the more components that are made the cheaper they get. Once enough production capacity is built they can then make cheaper cars using what will then be off the shelf components.

    It's the chicken and the egg problem - if nobody mass produces electric cars they will never get cheap, so by mass producing lots of expensive high performance cars they build up the infrastructure to support making cheap ones.

    Everyone is going gaga over Tesla because they are succeeding, and with each car they sell we get that much closer to having a cheap yet powerful electric car.

  5. Re:How do we generate the power? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Man, if only there were some way for you to find data to support your proposition that "A gasoline-burning car is probably less polluting than a coal-burning electrical plant." Maybe we could create some sort of globally-connected network of computers, with advanced tools to search through all the data.

    Oh wait. We have those things. You are wrong, and it would have taken about eighteen seconds to find that out. Economies of scale, man - your local power plant generates energy more efficiently and deals with pollution more effectively than your tiny little internal combustion engine. Even an electric car driven off of oil-burning power plants is less polluting (although only by about 1/3) per mile driven than an internal combustion engine.

  6. Re:How do we generate the power? by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A gasoline-burning car is probably less polluting than a coal-burning electrical plant.

    There are huge advantages in economies of scale when centralizing pollution controls. For example each gasoline powered currently car has to carry around a certain mass of equipment in order to comply with current pollution standards. Removing that mass from a moving vehicle and putting it in a fixed location gives you an instant efficiency gain as you no longer have to waste energy carting it around with you.

    In addition, centralizing the power distribution of cars to current power stations allows you to flip over to a different primary source sometime in the future, without upsetting the consumption side. So while it may use fossil fuels now, that doesn't mean it still has to 10 years down the track. Think of it as refactoring the hardware to aid in future system changes.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  7. Re:How do we generate the power? by ColdGrits · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Within the next 10 years or so I am sure you will see many more solar powered homes.
    That's what they said 10 years ago. Just sayin...

    As I look through my window right now, I can see 16 homes.
    6 of those have got solar panels on their roofs generating electricity (2 have also got solar water heating).
    10 years ago none of them had any solar.

    Just sayin'...

    --
    People should not be afraid of their governments - Governments should be afraid of their people.
  8. Re:For the life of me by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I just think this Tesla company is getting all a lot of hype for a car that the overwhelming majority of people won't be able to afford.

    Most of the equipment you take for granted in your car (air conditioning, airbags, ABS, traction control, etc.) started life in cars the overwhelming majority of people couldn't afford.

    Now a lot of it is mandatory even in cheap cars.

    --
    No sig today...
  9. Re:For the life of me by tippe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And frankly, at least for me, there's an element of rooting for the underdog here. Tesla is doing what the big dogs said couldn't be done, and shouldn't be done, and they're doing it way better than what the big guys are doing. I haven't crunched any numbers, but I'll bet Tesla have accomplished way more (in terms of advancing the technology) with their time and $$ investments in the roadster and sedan than say GM has with the volt or Nissan with the leaf, despite those mega-corps having much more experience building cars.