Python Trademark At Risk In Europe

mvar writes "A company in the UK is trying to trademark the 'Python' term for all things computing. The Python Software Foundation is asking for help. According to the PSF, they contacted the company in order to settle the matter but 'They blew us off and responded by filing the community trademark application claiming the exclusive right to use "Python" for software, servers, and web services — everywhere in Europe.' They now seek help from the community in several ways: By sending a letter to the EU council if you happen to work on a company that uses the Python programming language, by providing EU-published material regarding the Python language (articles etc) and/or financially supporting the PSF in the upcoming legal battle."

Comments

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

"And now for something completely old and similar."

Just oppose the mark.. and Python was First

[CajunArson]

At least in the U.S., trademarks come into existence by use in commerce. Registering a trademark is a good idea, but not even a requirement (which is why you see (TM) for non-registered trademarks and (R) for registered marks).

Assuming that the Python programming language and other related marks have been used in commerce *before* this other Python outfit showed up, then they don't have to worry about losing their rights to the name. Unless Europe allows for hijacking of marks simply through registration, I don't see what the Python guys should have to worry about (unless the other "python" company was using that mark in commerce before the real Python guys were).

Notice how confusing it is to name things above because of the conflicting "Python" mark? That's why there are trademarks, because if you have these name collisions it becomes difficult to accurately identify the source of the good or service.

Re:Just oppose the mark.. and Python was First

[Jason Levine]

If you get sued and ignore the lawsuit, you will have a judgement issued against you. It won't be a fair one, either, because the other side will give their side of the story and you'll be seen as the type of person/group that ignores lawsuits. (Not looked favorably upon by judges.)

If you ignore the judgement and just continue on, you risk further injunction by the court including jail time for contempt.

Ignoring lawsuits is bad. Ignoring judgments from lawsuits is even worse.

Re:Just oppose the mark.. and Python was First

[IndustrialComplex]

Ignoring unjust laws and lawsuits based upon them is good.

NO NO NO NO. No one in the US should ever follow this advice because it will very likely destroy you and whatever cause you seek to promote.

You don't do civil disobedience by ignoring lawsuits because the judge is going to consider a lack of rebuttal on your part as an acceptance of the claims made by the plaintiff. In essence, by ignoring the lawsuit (assuming it was properly served) you are saying "Yeah, just accept whatever that guy says, and make it fact from the perspective of the law"

The concept of civil disobedience against an unjust law is that when you ignore the law, you sure as hell DO SHOW UP IN COURT and explain exactly why you did not follow that law. Appearing before a judge is the EXACT THING YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO because that is your first best chance to get someone to literally judge your case. The judge could very well say "Yes, that law is unjust and you are free to go." Or he might not, but the point is you must accept the penalty for your actions and work your way though the judicial system.

Ignoring a lawsuit is the worst possible legal advice I have ever seen on the internet. Perhaps the only thing you could have given which was worse advice is to ignore the lawsuit, and then threaten the judge and the judge's family... Very bad advice.

I'll say it again, never never never never ignore a lawsuit. If someone files a lawsuit against you, go get a lawyer, and be prepared to present your case to a judge.

Simple: Change name of the programming language

[Phrogman]

(In Europe only mind you) to NameRippedOffByTheFuckingCocksuckersAtPythonComputerServices or whatever :P

Re:Simple: Change name of the programming language

[pr0nbot]

Rename to Monty!

Easily resolved

[Shemmie]

Everyone hits social media, hard - their name won't be worth toffee in the tech world. Which is ironically who they are trying to sell to.

Make it clear you wouldn't do business with them - and wait until they relent.

Even Linus registered the Linux trademark long ago

[optikos]

Why did the Python community drag its feet for so long on officially registering its brand-name? For the cost of approximately one hour's of lawyer's time, the low trade-mark fees 8 years ago would have been the cheapest solution to this situation. Now many many hours of lawyers' time will need to be expended to rectify the situation.

call up this company

[lkcl]

how about all of us calling this company up, several times a day, and *politely* telling them what we think? the sheer number of calls would, just from them having to answer the phone, cause them to lose money, as well as make it clear that we're not impressed.

So who is the company ?

[Alain Williams]

Name & shame them!

Re:So who is the company ?

[SilenceBE]

http://www.veber.co.uk/ & pobox.co.uk

This hasn't been an issue since then because the python.co.uk domain has, for most of its life, just forwarded its traffic on to the parent companies, veber.co.uk and pobox.co.uk. Unfortunately, Veber has decided that they want to start using the name "Python" for their server products.

Seems like a cheap way to abuse the popularity of python to try to sell their own products. This is a company that I surely will ignore if they come in my path, don't like that kind of shenanigans.

Re:So who is the company ?

[happy_place]

This company sounds absolutely reptillian in their nature. Like some massive hungry slithering bottom-dwelling reptile that strikes out at any warm-blooded thing that's good, and wraps itself around it for its own selfish enrichment, squeezing the life out of its prey. Dunno why they'd want to be named Python, it's a lovely language... and friendly... unless you don't like indenting.
 

It's protected in the UK under Common Law

[tlambert]

It's protected in the UK under Common Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_off , and therefore in the entire EU, due to treaty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_mark_law_of_the_European_Union

Is this "story" to try and get money for an hour worth of lawyer time, or just publicity for Python itself, since people are starting to not care about it that much, and they want more developers?

Bone-headed Decision by Veber/Pobox (Parent Comp.)

[mrpacmanjel]

So let me get this straight:

A UK-based ISP/Cloud services company offers Linux/Windows based Cloud Servers and they think it's a good idea to name the product range after a well-known programming language?

It's a nice way to "gain the trust" of potential customers - "Yeah we're the guys that screwed over the Python community (we totally stressed them out and cost them major $ too) - buy our stuff you can trust us!"

"btw, we off Linux installed on our servers too. Ironic don't you think?"

No doubt this will gain a lot of negative publicity especially on sites like slashdot.org - you know the very people that know a lot about ISP/cloudy services!!!!!

I'm getting some popcorn.

Re:Great justice system as usual

[dmbasso]

The company is *trying* to trademark it, no misdeeds by the justice system yet. Only the regular human stupidity and greed so far.

Re:Is it really a good choice?

[tuffy]

The language is named after Monty Python's Flying Circus, but the trademark only applies to software.

Re:Is it really a good choice?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

The language was named after Monty Python. Whether that was a good idea or not (take it up with Guido van Rossum) is irrrelevant at this point.

Re:Great justice system as usual

[Kupfernigk]

Yes, why are they not simply filing an objection? That's what you do. Someone applies, you object. You do not write to the EU Council of Ministers, you write to the European Trademarks and Patents Office.

Just like you do in the US. It isn't hard. Someone tries to file a trademark using your established name, you send them a batch of stuff, application gets rejected.

Re:Is it really a good choice?

[CrazyBusError]

Maybe they're run by the Ministry of silly awks.

Re:Even Linus registered the Linux trademark long

[Anonymous Coward]

That is not entirely correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#Copyright.2C_trademark.2C_and_naming

"In the United States, the name Linux is a trademark registered to Linus Torvalds.[5] Initially, nobody registered it, but on 15 August 1994, William R. Della Croce, Jr. filed for the trademark Linux, and then demanded royalties from Linux distributors. In 1996, Torvalds and some affected organizations sued him to have the trademark assigned to Torvalds, and in 1997 the case was settled.[114]"

In fact, the above is the first thing that came to my mind when I read the summary.

Re:what IS the PROBLEM here?

[Half-pint HAL]

They had the domain registered for years, why shouldn't they be allowed to make python servers? It's not like anyone who isn't an idiot would confuse python-server-hardware with python-programming-language.

Google Python webserver. Then think about what you've just said....

Re:Bone-headed Decision by Veber/Pobox (Parent Com

[Half-pint HAL]

It's also a good way to screw over your buyers.

Yes, we promised you Python webservers, and we delivered your Python webservers as promised.

No, of course you can't program them in Python. Python is an optional extra, not a standard component of a Python webserver. What you want is our PyPy webserver a totally unique and new trademarked name for our Python webserver running a Python webserver.

No, Pypy doesn't run Pypy, just standard Python. If you want Pypy, you'll need to get PyPyPyPy, a Python webserver running the PyPy Python interpreter virtualised inside a Python session.