The End Is Near for GameStop

Gamers tend to be... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 20:29 · Score: 0, Insightful

... idiots. I've watched them give money hand over fist to companies that are screwing them blind. When games went mainstream shit went downhill, the fact that gamers put up with such onerous bullshit because they are so addicted and stupid is why we can't have nice things.

Re:Gamers tend to be... by Kokuyo · 2013-02-18 21:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

While the wording is pretty excessive, I do not think this post deserves a flamebait mod. Only that it's not limited to gamers.
And I even count myself as one of those idiots... I'm still buying Assassin's Creed games on PS3 even though I've been burned by Ubisoft repeatedly AND there hasn't been an AC game I've truly enjoyed since AC2.
So yeah, I'm pretty dumb. I acknowledge that fact.
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
Re:Gamers tend to be... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 21:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

... idiots. I've watched them give money hand over fist to companies that are screwing them blind. When games went mainstream shit went downhill, the fact that gamers put up with such onerous bullshit because they are so addicted and stupid is why we can't have nice things.
I can say the exact same thing about people who pay thousands of dollars for metal sticks and special shoes to hit a little ball around a grassy field. Or people who pay hundreds of dollars for the privilege to slide down a snow-capped mountain with two expensive sticks strapped to their feet for a day. Seems all those sports assholes have ruined a free ride for the rest of us.
Entertainment is entertainment. If people want to waste money on something, they're going to, so stop trying to target gamers who give money "hand over fist". They sure as hell aren't the only ones, and are likely on the low end of the scale when it comes to frivolous waste.
Re:Gamers tend to be... by erroneus · 2013-02-18 22:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

I completely concur. Addicted gamers, unsurprisingly, lack self-discipline enough to make thoughtful decisions even about that which affects them the most.
If someone were to make that part of their legal argument, it could do a lot to convince a jury that all of this game DRM is simply anti-consumer. After all, addicts of various sorts are both exploited and assisted. In many states, a gambling addiction hotline is announced with every lottery ad. We have banned cigarette ads in almost every medium and alcohol ads in almost as many.
People should be 100% entitled to keep the data/media they pay for. This should be required by law. They should be able to save it and hand it down to their kids or donate it to a library or a museum. Our culture and human history is being erased in the future so that people at present can theoretically make a few extra dollars.
Re:Gamers tend to be... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 22:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game
Unless your name is GeoHot, no you're not.
And if your name is GeoHot, no you're not, until it's been out already for five years.
I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
No, sorry, that's not how it works. You haven't "truly enjoyed" an AC game since AC2? So you're looking for some deep fulfillment from these games that they are no longer providing? And you think the problem is the games?
Re:Gamers tend to be... by VAElynx · 2013-02-18 23:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

You can buy the sticks, shoes and even pieces of wood on the used market for a lot cheaper.
And, sure, there's a markup to make it rentable ,but the price there arises from manufacture - the sticks costing thousands of dollars tend to be made from light, hard alloys with mechanical properties to fit the job.
Re:Gamers tend to be... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-19 00:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

... idiots. I've watched them give money hand over fist to companies that are screwing them blind. When games went mainstream shit went downhill, the fact that gamers put up with such onerous bullshit because they are so addicted and stupid is why we can't have nice things.
How is paying for entertainment being an idiot? People pay $50-$100 a month to have TV shows to watch. People pay up to $50 for two to go see a movie ONCE. Its not like a smoker who spends $50 a week to kill themselves, or some drinker who spends $50 a week drinking their intelligence away.
Re:Gamers tend to be... by DarkOx · 2013-02-19 00:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

You all have a short memory. Its not the new gamers or even the new hardcore games that have a problem. There were exactly two industries that signaled the public at large was willing to accept degraded use rights to products in the name on content protection. Games and home video.
This goes back to the 80's, when games came with silly little start up questions like "what is the third word on page 20 of the manual." Games usually had substantial dead tree manuals at the time. Then the started coming with little card board decoder rings and such. After that clever ideas like key disk showed up, were the disk they sent had specific problems on some sectors, or perhaps the FAT had been molested in some unique way; so that in theory if you copied it the problems would not be there. So you had to insert this special broken disk every time you wanted to play; even if you had allocated some of your precious 40meg hard disk to it.
Then everyone mindless bought VHS tapes with macro-vision on them that were difficult to duplicate and had an inferior quality as well; without complaint.
The sad fact is most people don't think about this stuff or care. I am not sure what is to be done about it, but considering all the folks clamoring to get hold of the next walled garden device, be it a phone, game console, whatever and at the same time letting facebook be their personal information manager I think the ship has perhaps sailed a long time ago.

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Re:Gamers tend to be... by AdamHaun · 2013-02-19 01:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
You could always just wait. After a year or so the prices come down, the bugs are as fixed as they're gonna get, and word of mouth will tell you whether the game is worth the time. There's nothing that says you *have* to play the latest and greatest games the moment they come out.

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Prices will come down? Hah! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 20:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

So the article speculates that the prices of new games will come down if second hand sales become a thing of the past.

Yeah. Right. If you believe that, I have a special deal, just for you, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you could be the proud owner of the Brooklyn Bridge for the low low price of $1000!

Publishers will sell the games for as much as they think the public will pay. They're not going to oh-so-generously drop the price of their product just because you can't resell it down the road. I guarantee you, prices will stay the same, or go up.

Re:Prices will come down? Hah! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 20:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

So the article speculates that the prices of new games will come down if second hand sales become a thing of the past.
Yeah. Right. If you believe that, I have a special deal, just for you, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you could be the proud owner of the Brooklyn Bridge for the low low price of $1000!
Publishers will sell the games for as much as they think the public will pay. They're not going to oh-so-generously drop the price of their product just because you can't resell it down the road. I guarantee you, prices will stay the same, or go up.
Remember when those same publishers got rid of big boxes, printed manuals and goodies that used to come in normal pc game editions -- with the excuse of going green and lesser price ? Yeah, what happened to those prices ? They went up, up and up. And you ended paying much more for less.
It is GUARANTEED that if second hand games go the way of the dodo prices will not go down.
You'll end up paying much more for even less value.
Re:Prices will come down? Hah! by Vaphell · 2013-02-18 21:10 · Score: 5, Insightful

true that, anyone believing the price would fall when the competition gets weaker (2nd hand stuff competes with brand new) is a fucking moron.
Re:Prices will come down? Hah! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-19 02:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

Remember when those same publishers got rid of big boxes, printed manuals and goodies that used to come in normal pc game editions -- with the excuse of going green and lesser price ? Yeah, what happened to those prices ? They went up, up and up. And you ended paying much more for less.
It is GUARANTEED that if second hand games go the way of the dodo prices will not go down.
You'll end up paying much more for even less value.
Anyone can look at the printed tag and see that the numbers are different. Compare todays prices with yesteryears and adjust for inflation, and the picture is a bit different.
Some examples:
The NES, released in 1987 for $99.99 is $230.52 in todays dollars. Assuming games were $40, that's $92.21 per game.
The SNES, released in 1991 for $199.99 is $337.14 in todays dollars. Games were ~$60, which is about $101.64 today.
The Sega Genesis, released in 1989 for $189.99 is $351.80 in todays dollars. Similar to the SNES for games.
Sony Playstation, released in 1994 for $299.99, is $309.81 in todays dollars. That $50 Final Fantasy VII disk would set you back $77.86 today.
N64, released in 1996 for $199.99, is $292.65 today. $60 for a game would be 87.80 today.
Given a more apples-to-apples comparison, you can see that the NES and SNES were very expensive. While the hardware is in line with the WII at launch time, the games could very well break the bank. You also see that the N64, while being a lot more powerful and still cartridge based, was still significantly cheaper in adjusted dollars. The Playstation CD's, which we all know cost less to mass produce, were cheaper still. Today we could go and get that new AC, Forza, Gears, or DmC disk for x360 or ps3 for ~60 brand new. Tell me how $60 is more expensive than $102 again?

*yawn* by adolf · 2013-02-18 20:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

The rumor mill is saying that something might happen, and the question is about the possible consequences of this thing that may or may not occur.

This is too many layers of speculation to be useful for anything.

Please call me when someone knows something about anything. Thanks.

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lolwut by tambo · 2013-02-18 20:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

> "If none of the consoles can play used games I could see the price of games coming down. AAA titles may come out at $45 or $50 instead of $60."

:lol: Right. Because when publishers eliminate the only legitimate source of price competition for their titles, they will become benevolent toward their customers and cut the price out of... good-naturedness? Rather than, you know, jacking up the rates for Halo XVIII through the roof, because they know that customers would sell a kidney to play Master Chef again?

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Re:lolwut by bloodhawk · 2013-02-18 21:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

price competition? have you seen the prices places like gamestop put on used games? The only thing positive for the publishers in the used game market is generally the pricing is so high that many people will choose new over used anyway.

End is near for new consoles? by guises · 2013-02-18 20:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm sure it's too much to hope that people would just not buy the new consoles...

Retailers went too far by bluescrn · 2013-02-18 20:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Developers/publishers *need* to fight back against pre-owned, as game retailers really started to take the piss, and it's really been hurting the people who make the games. This isn't about stopping friends sharing games or selling them privately on eBay, although sadly these users will suffer too.

This is to stop retailers going to great lengths to sell pre-owned *instead* of new copies. Mixing new and preowned stock on the same shelf was ridiculous enough, but Iit's got to the point where you try to buy a new copy of a game, and they're actively pushing pre-owned even at the checkout: 'Are you sure you want a new copy? This pre-owned one is $2 less!'

This directly hurts publishers and developers, who need the new sales and make no revenue from pre-owned. Publishers have been way to slow and scared to respond, they should have clamped down much earlier. After all, it's never happened to this extent with music or DVDs, and I expect that the music/movie industry would be very quick to stamp these sort of practices out if pre-owned sales were being pushed in the same way.

Re:Retailers went too far by Kryptonian+Jor-El · 2013-02-18 21:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

Bullshit. The reason why they can sell games at $60 a pop is because they have the value added to them that they can be resold. If I buy a $60 game and sell it to a friend for $30, then a game that cannot be resold is only worth $30 Being able to sell these games adds a ton of value to the game, so if publishers take this ability away, the price needs to DRASTICALLY fall, we're talking $10-15 for a new game

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Re:Retailers went too far by docmordin · 2013-02-18 21:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

Developers/publishers need to fight back against pre-owned, as game retailers really started to take the piss, and it's really been hurting the people who make the games. [...] This directly hurts publishers and developers, who need the new sales and make no revenue from pre-owned. Publishers have been way to slow and scared to respond, they should have clamped down much earlier.
By this logic, you should be all for contractors demanding and receiving a percentage of the sale price for any building they constructed, car companies forbidding the use of any second-hand vehicle, and all other sorts of wonderful nonsense.
Re:Retailers went too far by bluescrn · 2013-02-18 21:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

If you had any idea how time-consuming and costly modern console game development can be, you'd understand why games are so expensive.

(Oh, even at $0.99, games bitch and moan about games being too expensive, too... the fun of being a mobile developer...)
Re:Retailers went too far by bluescrn · 2013-02-18 21:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

You rarely get a car dealer saying 'no, you don't want to buy that NEW car!... buy this used one instead, for just $50 less!'

It's not a great comparison, though, as there's extra risks/costs associated with buying a used car. With used software, the used copy is exactly the same as the new copy (assuming the disc is undamaged)
Re:Retailers went too far by Kryptonian+Jor-El · 2013-02-18 21:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

Thats not the problem. Make games that people want to buy at reasonable prices, and they will buy. If publishers keep pumping out expensive shitware, then yeah, they're going to be a problem.

And if developers are going to be removing features from games I purchase (the right to resell) then the price needs to be dropped dramatically.

Actually, forget it. Preventing resale will just light a fire under the pirate's asses; they'll crack the DRM in no time, and then publishers will have an even bigger problem than gamestop

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Re:Retailers went too far by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 22:16 · Score: 5, Insightful

...Mixing new and preowned stock on the same shelf was ridiculous enough, but Iit's got to the point where you try to buy a new copy of a game, and they're actively pushing pre-owned even at the checkout: 'Are you sure you want a new copy? This pre-owned one is $2 less!'
This directly hurts publishers and developers, who need the new sales and make no revenue from pre-owned...
Ironically, this exact scenario plays out across the entire nation every single day. In used car sales lots. And in pawn shops. And in clothing thrift stores.
Why is it I don't see Ford lobbying against every single used car dealer, demanding they "outlaw" the sale of all used Fords?
Why is it I don't see Abercrombie and Fitch pissed at the fact that their $40 T-shirt sells for $10 at Platos closet, threatening the sue the entire used clothing chain?
Why is Rolex not demanding that all used Rolex watches be pulled immediately from the market and destroyed, since they're being sold for thousands less than what the MSRP is, crushing their "value" and image?
I'll tell you why. Because these retailers have already got their damn money once, and don't feel they should be paid again. And again. And again.
I fail to understand why you or anyone else thinks the gaming industry deserves this unique honor. As far as them being "hurt", well I guess I'll believe that when I see that multi-billion dollar industry actually start slowing down. Seems the music and movie industry likes to cry poor mouth too while artists and managers wipe their ass with $100 bills.
Re:Retailers went too far by CronoCloud · 2013-02-19 01:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm 45, I'm old enough to remember the prices on Atari 2600 games and what you got for that money, and trust me...taking inflation and content in account, modern games are CHEAPER.
Re:Retailers went too far by bleh-of-the-huns · 2013-02-19 01:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Actually, car dealers have been pushing used cars over new cars (those dealers with large new and used lots). The profit margins are significantly higher on used vehicles, and banks love them because the interest rates on used cars is higher then new cars.
It has gotten to the point where people are buying used (more than likely CPO used), because they thought they were getting a better deal, when in actuality the new car was actually cheaper in the long run over the life of the loan. And Dealers love this, CPO sales are a huge profit generator.

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the EU saves the world by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 21:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

In the EU and especially in Germany it is allowed to resell used copies of licenses of software and games.
You are explicitly allowed to buy high volume licenses and resell them individually (e.g., oracle and windows licenses).

It's like MS bundling IE and Media Player with Windows in the EU. Either they pay high fines (900 millions or more) or they
comply with the law in the EU.

all hell will break loose by sdnoob · 2013-02-18 21:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

in the courtroom challenging first sale rights, click/shrink wrap licenses, etc. perhaps also format/device shifting, drm and circumvention of it to preserve customer rights... heck, even privacy and user tracking could be a part of it (that is one reason why the push to online-everything.. it's easier to track and report)

but the case will drag on for so long, that most of the readers here will be so old and arthritic they won't be able to play video games anymore anyway other than things like freecell.

when the supreme court does finally hand down a ruling, though, it _will_ be monumental (for the better, or the worse) and completely change how not only video games are sold, but also other software, digital goods (software, music, movies, books, etc) that are fast replacing physical ones, and the used/lending/rental markets for all of those (including ordinary public libraries and person-to-person lending).

Gamers are not idiots ... by Taco+Cowboy · 2013-02-19 00:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

... they are addicts

Gamers act pretty much the same way drug addicts do ...

No matter how many times they were screwed by the dealers, them addict will always go back to the dealers and buy more drugs

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Re:Gamers are not idiots ... by mumblestheclown · 2013-02-19 00:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

Or maybe it's that when you amortize the cost of a video game compared to most other forms of popular entertainment, video games work out incredibly cheaply per unit time of entertainment and so the total spend of a typical gamer per year is actually very low. Furthermore, perhaps you, or if not you then others it this thread, are basing your idea of getting "ripped off" by comparing the free market costs of goods (which is essentially what we have here, despite nonsense or hyperbolic claims of 'addiction') against the "piracy costs" as some of you have conditioned yourself that the cost of digital entertainment "should" be near zero.
I don't play many games. I'm a WW2 enthusiast and there haven't been many shooters lately. But in general for about the price of a decent restaurant meal I could get a WW2 shooter that would keep me occupied for 40+ hours (of my life that I can never get back, but that's a different story). I have no problem with this and I further have no problem in technological means to prevent against re-license - or have you all been asleep to what this has done to prices in the ios app market and also in places like steam?
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... by AmiMoJo · 2013-02-19 00:54 · Score: 1, Insightful

Realistically what is their alternative? Movies are, according to many Slashdot posts, all shit as well. Music is all shit. TV is runny diarrhoeal shit.
We are lucky, we have enough education to be interested in other stuff. A lot of people don't and are overstimulated anyway, so really there isn't much else. And, well, you know, some of those games are not bad. Unlike drugs they generally don't ruin your life or impair your ability to earn money and buy more either.

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Re:Gamers are not idiots ... by FireFury03 · 2013-02-19 01:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

Realistically what is their alternative? Movies are, according to many Slashdot posts, all shit as well. Music is all shit. TV is runny diarrhoeal shit.
I dunno, go outside and have fun in the real world for a change? You know, like people did before video games, TV and movies existed?

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Re:Gamers are not idiots ... by thrift24 · 2013-02-19 01:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

You are suggesting that paying someone for goods despite the poor behavior of the seller is done by both gamers and drug addicts to make the point that they are both addicts, however this behavior is wide spread and has nothing to do with actual addiction. Probably a good portion of this site's users hate their ISP or cable company, yet continue to pay those bills. Many people dislike WalMart, but continue to shop there. This has nothing to do with addiction and comes down to the buyers evaluation of whether or not something has enough benefit to justify dealing with the seller. The console makers can try whatever they like and people may still buy things from them, but they aren't sticking needles in the buyers arm and if you provide the user with a better value they will probably take that into consideration with their gaming purchases.
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... by s0nicfreak · 2013-02-19 03:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

KIDS went outside and had fun before video games, TV and movies, but adults just went out and worked all day. My kids do go outside and have fun, but there isn't much fun for adults outside.

Every few months I decide I'm tired of staring at screens all day, and that I want to find something fun to do that doesn't involve that. So I search and search (offline at first, but then I realize I can't find anything that way and look online), and eventually find an activity that costs a bunch of money; for equipment, for clothes & shoes appropriate for the activity, or to get into an area to do the activity. I put down the money and then after awhile find that everyone is going online to talk about the activity, and/or I have to go online to keep up with the activity (when places are open or available, when the weather will be appropriate, when other people will be doing the activity) . And it eventually becomes just staring at the screen at things related to the activity much more than I can actually do the activity (either due to cost, or weather, or scheduling conflicts, etc.) .

Can you find me an activity in the real world that isn't like that, which is actually fun for adults? Just running around and pretending to shoot each other with sticks, climbing trees, etc. is not fun for adults.
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... by SandwhichMaster · 2013-02-19 04:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

Everyone is making broad generalizations.
You realize the irony in that statement, don't you?

"the rumor mill" by gtirloni · 2013-02-19 00:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

That's redundant, what else is on Slashdot these days? :)

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Re:I doubt it by mangu · 2013-02-19 00:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

consoles are NOT a good buy

Consoles are anachronistic by now. They are remnants of an age when there was a TV set in the living room and the family gathered there to watch. Back in those old days, a color monitor was an expensive item, so much that it made sense to use the family TV as a monitor.

Today, when people carry in their pockets a device with a screen that offers much better resolution than the TV screen did, consoles make no sense at all, at least not for the consumer.

There is only one group that benefits from the console system today, the game publishers. Consoles are what enables them to save money in development, because the range of hardware that they must support is limited, while at the same time allowing them to pump the prices up, by using DRM.

Re:I doubt it by CronoCloud · 2013-02-19 01:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

Today, when people carry in their pockets a device with a screen that offers much better resolution than the TV screen did, consoles make no sense at all, at least not for the consumer.

LARGER screen? Not having to squint at a bad font choice on a tiny screen? Real controls?

Re:I doubt it by twistedsymphony · 2013-02-19 01:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

Let me tell you a little story... I was a PC gamer for years... I eventually got tired of dropping over a grand ever other year to keep my PC up to date, then the headaches with the game I just bought not being compatible with my hardware, wasting sometimes hours getting things installed and setup well enough to make them playable... I loved fighting games and racing games and those were two areas where consoles really out-shined the PC market so I made the switch and I was happy. Graphics weren't as good but I loved the fact that I could just sit down on my couch after a long day at work and enjoy the games without any roadblocks... no installation, no configuration, no worries about compatibility, no worries about lack of hardware power.. just pure gaming without any noise.

I have a home theater setup now with a nice big 109 in screen, and my PC is a laptop which is quite convenient, it's also 3 years old and I only paid about $600 for it then and it's not even close to being obsolete for my needs. With Steam launching big picture mode there there having been a few PC only games I wanted to play in the last few years I decided... maybe the Home Theater Gaming PC is a reality now? I dropped the cash and built a machine the last few parts came in last week... I had the box in my office hooked up to a spare monitor, keyboard, and mouse that I had... I spent a few hours installing windows, running windows update, installing and signing up for steam among other things.... I was ready to use it so a hauled the machine down into my home theater room, removed some old equipment to make room and hooked up my sleek new Home Theater Gaming PC.

It booted up and everything seemed to be going well but once I was in windows the wireless keyboard and mouse wasn't being recognized... ok I unplugged and plugged back in the dongle, no use, I checked the batteries, they were good, checked the documentation, there's no special instructions other than to plug it in. So I ran and got my wired keyboard and mouse and had to sit 2ft from my giant projection screen on the floor trying to figure out why the wireless devices weren't working... For some reason windows was recognizing the wireless dongle as a mass storage device that had 0 space. I plugged the dongle into my laptop and it worked fine without any problems... so I know the device is fine, the problem is with the windows install/drivers on the new machine. after banging my head against this issue for about an hour not finding anyone with similar problems online and not being able to futz with the drivers to get the machine to recognize it properly I gave up on that... I had a wireless adapter to use an Xbox 360 controller on the machine so for the time being I would just use the wired keyboard and mouse to navigate windows and play with the controller once I was in the games.

Throughout dealing with the keyboard and mouse problems I realized that I wasn't getting any sound, I didn't have speakers hooked up when it was in my office so I hadn't thought about it. I needed HDMI sound output for my home theater setup and pouring through all the sound options I couldn't find anything to enable sound out via HDMI. I went to look at the graphics driver options when I realized that I had never installed the nVidia graphics driver and it was still using the generic windows video driver. I went to nVidia's website, downloaded the latest driver and installed. It wanted to reboot so I obliged. I see the bios screen, the then some info on the raid array, then the windows loading screen then my projector looses the video signal, then it finds the video signal but the screen is black... for about 5 seconds then it loses the signal again, and repeats this loop endlessly. I force shutdown by holding the power button wait a few seconds and reboot...same problem.... I force shut down again and reboot into safe mode... same problem

So after spending nearly a grand, spending a day building the thing and half a day banging my head against driver issues I've at the mome

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Stranger danger by tepples · 2013-02-19 03:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

I dunno, go outside and have fun in the real world for a change?

How much of the current tendency against outdoor recreation is due to "stranger danger" hysteria among parents? And how much is because the gift-giving season is in a part of the year when temperatures are too cold for vigorous outdoor recreation throughout much of the developed world?

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