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Google Patents Staple of '70s Mainframe Computing

theodp writes "'The lack of interest, the disdain for history is what makes computing not-quite-a-field,' Alan Kay once lamented. And so it should come as no surprise that the USPTO granted Google a patent Tuesday for the Automatic Deletion of Temporary Files, perhaps unaware that the search giant's claimed invention is essentially a somewhat kludgy variation on file expiration processing, a staple of circa-1970 IBM mainframe computing and subsequent disk management software. From Google's 2013 patent: 'A path name for a file system directory can be "C:temp\12-1-1999\" to indicate that files contained within the file system directory will expire on Dec. 1, 1999.' From Judith Rattenbury's 1971 Introduction to the IBM 360 computer and OS/JCL: 'EXPDT=70365 With this expiration date specified, the data set will not be scratched or overwritten without special operator action until the 365th day of 1970.' Hey, things are new if you've never seen them before!"

33 of 333 comments (clear)

  1. Really! by jhb146 · · Score: 3

    This is supposed to be new...

    1. Re:Really! by rtfa-troll · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes; maybe; and the whole summary is stupid. From claim one of the patent; the very first paragraph:

      having a path name in a distributed file system, wherein the file is divided into a plurality of chunks that are distributed among a plurality of servers

      So; where the mainframes of the 70s had single consolidated disks stores this is talking about doing this on a distributed filesystem. The area of application is indeed new completely opposite to the claim of the summary.

      Patents are not supposed to control what you do; instead they control how you do it. Since the way that Google is claiming to do this is by going around comparing the timestamps on a bunch of different distributed chunks of a file, this is something that no mainframe of the 70s is likely to have had to to so it may even be a new way to automatically delete temporary files. I wish people would begin to understand this and commenters would point it out every time. I wonder if this isn't a bunch of patent lawyers trying to make us look silly.

      Having said that; If you had a distributed file which kept a timestamp on each of several separate chunks, how would you go about deciding when to automatically delete it? My guess is that the solution you would come up with quickly is basically the one in the patent. You certainly wouldn't have great difficulty in deciding how you do it; suddenly think "maybe there's a patent that might tell me how to do this"; go to the patent office and read the patent then come back inspired and manage to solve your problem only because Google was so nice as to publish their solution. Patents are supposed to record valuable secrets that companies might otherwise keep to themselves in a way that helps humanity. This one is failing at that.

      What this comes down to is that the whole idea of patents on things as abstract as software is stupid and is an illegal interference in free speech a right everyone should have under the universal declaration of human rights. The patent officers of the USPTO and the congressmen who put them there should be arrested.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    2. Re:Really! by sjames · · Score: 3, Funny

      The 'plurality' of chunks is irrelevant to the matter of expiring old data. What matters is that you have some sort of metadata telling the system when a blob of data that might resemble a file is to be deleted.

      The USPTO, meanwhile, keeps making me feel like blowing a plurality of chunks into a water filled receptacle where upon manipulation of a lever or chain fresh water will enter the receptacle transferring momentum to the relevant chunks causing them to exit through a drain.

    3. Re:Really! by Alioth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not prior art, it's obviousness. In terms of file storage, I consider myself "ordinarily skilled in the art", yet 5 years ago I put in such a system to expire files at work on a distributed filesystem. The problem is that the USPTO is allowing obvious stuff to be patented. They even admit as such - unfortunately I can't find the article - but I remember reading the USPTO saying "only 5% of patents they grant are what they call pioneer patents" (in other words, something really new and worthy of patent protection). The reform needs to be that only these "pioneer patent" applications actually get granted and the rest thrown out.

  2. Wait there's more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Google Labs is supposedly working on a next-gen programming development environment that allows source code statements to be physically manipulated like a deck of cards.

  3. Re:The real problem by cheater512 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cut the foreign born crap (Aussie here). Just say they are incompetent and leave it at that. Its more accurate that way.

  4. big deal by dickens · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not like Microsoft was ever going to be interested in that anyway. They must get cents back from the disk manufacturers for perpetuating their ever-growing temp folders.

  5. really? by lkernan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't know whats worse, Google applied for this, or the USPTO approved it.

  6. No issue here, Read the Patent! by dajjhman · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you actually read the patent, it is specifically for a similar method, but designed for Distributed File Systems. This is different from just a single file being names a certain way. It is an algorithm based on the location of other related files, each different file's modified and Time to Live (TTL) dates, and the factors determined by the, keywords here, plurality of servers. If they tried to patent a regular temporary file that would be different, but this is a distributed system specifically for a file that is distributed in different parts on different systems. If you still think this has been done before, I would love to see the source for that information and gladly would recant myself given that.

    --
    The man who cannot imagine a horse galloping on a tomato is an idiot - Andre Breton
    1. Re:No issue here, Read the Patent! by samkass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here is the crux of the first claim: "1. A computer-implemented method comprising: selecting a file having a path name in a distributed file system, wherein the file is divided into a plurality of chunks that are distributed among a plurality of servers, wherein each chunk has a modification time indicating when the chunk was last modified, and wherein at least two of the modification times are different; identifying a user profile associated with the file; determining a memory space storage quota usage for the user profile; deriving a file time to live for the file from the path name; determining a weighted file time to live for the file by reducing the file time to live by an offset, where the offset is determined by multiplying the file time to live by a percentage of memory space storage quota used by the user profile; selecting a latest modification time from the modification times of the plurality of chunks; determining that an elapsed time based on the latest modification time is equal to or exceeds the weighted file time to live; and deleting all of the chunks of the file responsive to the determining."

      Can we please have an end to the stupid articles where someone intentionally mis-interprets the abstract or even just the title of a patent and pretends it's some simple thing that's been done for decades to try to drum up anti-patent sentiment? There seems to be one a week or so.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    2. Re:No issue here, Read the Patent! by c0lo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you actually read the patent, it is specifically for a similar method, but designed for Distributed File Systems.

      Ahhhh... that's good.

      You see, I was scared shitless that we are still quibbling over patents granted with the only claimed difference over some old methods (patented or not) being "on a computer".
      I see now how wrong I was: we stepped in the glorious era of the "in the cloud" claims.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    3. Re:No issue here, Read the Patent! by stevesliva · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can we please have an end to the stupid articles where someone intentionally mis-interprets the abstract or even just the title of a patent and pretends it's some simple thing that's been done for decades to try to drum up anti-patent sentiment? There seems to be one a week or so.

      Unlikely. Nonetheless, anti-patent sentiment is a good thing. Far too many people assume there's some sort of fairness or justice to the whole mess, and there isn't.

      --
      Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
    4. Re:No issue here, Read the Patent! by Improv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's still a dumb patent; a trivial weighting addition doesn't change this. I mean, seriously, that's less complicated than your average photoshop filter, and it's an obvious "innovation" that any engineer would think up if they were to be asked to implement file expiration on Google's platforms.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    5. Re:No issue here, Read the Patent! by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Software should not be patentable. Period.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  7. What's old is new again by ZorinLynx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The same thing happened in the 80s and early 90s when microcomputers started gaining features like virtual memory, protected modes, out of order execution, etc... People thought these were all brand new things, when in fact mainframe processors had done all that 20 years prior in the 1960s.

    I bet when all the kids were super-excited about programming on the i386 with its "OMG VIRTUAL MEMORY!!!" the older guys who had worked on mainframes just rolled their eyes. :)

    Read about the IBM 360/91 if you want details on what I mean. It was amazing when you consider the year it came out.

    1. Re:What's old is new again by sbjornda · · Score: 4, Funny

      I bet when all the kids were super-excited about programming on the i386 with its "OMG VIRTUAL MEMORY!!!" the older guys who had worked on mainframes just rolled their eyes. :)

      You talking about the same old grey beards that gasped when the kids opened the cover on a server and added their own memory, network adaptors, backplanes, disk drives, etc without having to call IBM out to do it?

      Yeah, and then rolled their eyes again because the kids didn't know about change control, didn't notify the users about the outage, didn't verify that their backups were good (if they even had backups), and lost 6 months worth of corporate data as a result.

      --
      .nosig

    2. Re:What's old is new again by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As an aside... I remember a few years ago - when we were still running tape backups - I went to one of our then-sysadmins and asked him to recover an important directory one of our faculty had managed to delete. I was told he couldn't do it because it would require they stop the backup system for several hours, which would throw their backup tape rotation scheme out of sync.

      So we were continuously generating backups we could never actually use.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  8. Oh bullocks by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The summary is wrong. Folks, please stop reading the abstract, and read claim 1 instead.

    This is what is patented:

    1. A computer-implemented method comprising: selecting a file having a path name in a distributed file system, wherein the file is divided into a plurality of chunks that are distributed among a plurality of servers, wherein each chunk has a modification time indicating when the chunk was last modified, and wherein at least two of the modification times are different; identifying a user profile associated with the file; determining a memory space storage quota usage for the user profile; deriving a file time to live for the file from the path name; determining a weighted file time to live for the file by reducing the file time to live by an offset, where the offset is determined by multiplying the file time to live by a percentage of memory space storage quota used by the user profile; selecting a latest modification time from the modification times of the plurality of chunks; determining that an elapsed time based on the latest modification time is equal to or exceeds the weighted file time to live; and deleting all of the chunks of the file responsive to the determining.

  9. Public Patent Challenge by cowtamer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think it's time for a crowdsourced patent challenge web site run by the USPTO where there would be a period of public comment for each patent about to be awarded in order to help underpaid (and I imagine under-resourced) examiners find Prior Art.

    A lot fewer patents might be awarded, but ones that are would be genuinely new -- this might also save the world billions of dollars.

    1. Re:Public Patent Challenge by stevesliva · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think it's time for a crowdsourced patent challenge web site run by the USPTO where there would be a period of public comment for each patent about to be awarded in order to help underpaid (and I imagine under-resourced) examiners find Prior Art.

      A lot fewer patents might be awarded, but ones that are would be genuinely new -- this might also save the world billions of dollars.

      http://peertopatent.org/

      --
      Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
  10. Re:hmmm by viperidaenz · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did you also inspect the quota for the user owning the file to determine if you should delete it? Were the files also stored in a distributed file system, with chunks of the file on separate systems?

    Every single claim in that patent mention both of those things.

    The naming of files is an example of a part of a claim. To infringe on a patent you need to infringe on at least one entire claim.

  11. Re:Virtual memory, etc. was easy in the early 1980 by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Miniaturization took care of that.

    Whether or not it could be done for some arbitrary price is not relevant.

    Doing something over again in a different medium is still not invention no matter how much you want to shill for companies that would grind you into crackers if given enough motive.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  12. Been doing this for years... by bl968 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    find /tmp/* -mtime +14 -exec rm {} \;

    --
    "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
  13. I'm Sorry, but... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But the USPTO is populated by idiots.

    They are deserving of the disdain and ridicule reserved for the Postal Office, Congress, etc.

    Which is a shame because I've always figured they had some pretty smart people there. The examiner should have taken a shit on the application and mailed it back with a note saying,"this is what your application is worth".

    They are either complete morons or...are getting payoffs. And Google will just use it as club some day on a small outfit that doesn't have half a million dollars to fight a lawsuit.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:I'm Sorry, but... by jatoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are either complete morons or...are getting payoffs.

      Or they are precisely following moronic policy

    2. Re:I'm Sorry, but... by jockm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or they are normal people, without much domain knowledge, forced to handle too many cases in too little time, and fit within the rules of a broken system.

      I personally find that to be the more plausible situation.

      --

      What do you know I wrote a novel
    3. Re:I'm Sorry, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not even from the US but I'm sure the USPTO has thought of this since the start. They had to assume that the patents will come from all fields of technology so I don't expect there to be 20 people, the same 20 people, discussing ALL patents. I'm sure there are committees per various fields of science and technology.
      I'll even wiki it AFTER I have posted this, that's how sure I am of this :P

    4. Re:I'm Sorry, but... by reve_etrange · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The USPTO is supposed to support itself with fees. The largest fee is for reexamination, creating a financial incentive to grant bad patents (which are likely to be reexamined). -da

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    5. Re:I'm Sorry, but... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Google only uses patents defensively, at least up until now. In a way it is better that such a ridiculous patent went to a non-troll company that won't use it to suppress the competition, if the USPTO is going to grant such nonsense.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:I'm Sorry, but... by ChrisSlicks · · Score: 4, Funny

      When it comes to software or computing patents they apparently spend 90% of that allotted time by playing mine sweeper.

    7. Re:I'm Sorry, but... by wren337 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is a case of the USPTO saying "We don't understand this fully, we'll let the courts figure it out".

      And the courts say "We don't understand this fully, we'll defer to the experts at the USPTO".

  14. Not morons - just doing the job as intended by dbIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's just another version of a dog licence intended as a petty revenue stream. When a patent is granted that's proof of nothing other than the government is aware of it and has it on file - validity these days is apparently supposed to be sorted out in court and is none of the patent office's business.

  15. Or the summary is misleading propaganda by raymorris · · Score: 4, Informative

    The "summary" wholly misrepresents what the patent is about. It's not about having an expiration date in the filename at all. When someone advocating a position lies to me, as this submitter did, I figure the reason they are lying about the issue is because they realize that the truth doesn't support their position.

    Rather than choosing an expiration date ahead of time, the patented method deletes a file (or not) based on multiplying the time to live by the inverse of the user's quota usage, plus the latest of several modification times. The patent covers only using that specific algorithm, and only when the TTL is represented within the filename.

    Is that algorithm obvious? Several Slashdot commentors who say the are programmers read the explanation of the algorithm and still didn't understand it at all. One might say that if it's explained to you and you don't "get it", it's probably not obvious.